Thai police to restore organizational image from bribing accusations

[26vinny]

is it April the 1st already

[Broken Record]

All the while high ranking policemen can be seen to be massively corrupt and get away with it, it can only increase the corruption in all the ranks as they try to accumulate enough money to buy a higher rank that will enable them to get a bigger cut of the pie.

There is no hope for the Thai police, the only people that can do anything about the Police are corrupt themselves and rely on keeping the Military and Police Generals happy to ensure their own corruption, and protect them from the poor people who can see what goes on, but are powerless to do anything about it. The people at the very top of Thai society need the Police and Military to protect them and their lifestyles from the unwashed masses.

This is why corruption among the incredibly wealthy Generals is accepted.

[Redline]

That's just sad. Have another drink, and stop trying to come up with smart stuff when you're trashed.

[Squeegee]

Ironic really: the cops used to be seen as Thaksin's mob, and yet before the coup they recieved no extra income from bombings. Post-coup and the cops get paid big bucks for a bang.

Anyway, since nothing exists outside Thailand where image is everything, a few more wagging tongues and photo opportunities is all that is necessary.

[bluegum]

It is symptomatic of the problems with prominent sectors of Thai society that the Police themselves will not be reformed - only their IMAGE.

Thai police want an image of dependability? Maybe they can hire some Volkswagen executives for brand building, I hear some of them are now looking for jobs...

[HerbalEd]

Great news. So, problem solved. No more police corruption.

[Artisi]

That's just sad. Have another drink, and stop trying to come up with smart stuff when you're trashed.

5 minutes in Thailand and already an expert of the in's and out's of the corruption on the BIB and the soldier boys, well done keep it up, in another few days you will be rated super expert.

[Artisi]

That's just sad. Have another drink, and stop trying to come up with smart stuff when you're trashed.

5 minutes in Thailand and already an expert of the in's and out's of the corruption on the BIB and the soldier boys, well done keep it up, in another few days you will be rated super expert.

[Artisi]

Make it an offence to pay a bribe, for starters...

Make it a bigger offence to ask or take bribe...

Then some sting operations...

to be paid-off with a bribe, no problem.

[Nowisee]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.... do NOT use the word "Police" when describing these people. They are not really "Police"... they are at the most self-appointed shakedown thugs that have NO clue how to fight real crime or to protect the public. This country would probably do better without them. It works in villages.

Anyway, I am not optimistic and DO NOT see reform anytime soon. Good luck thailand and I'm sure you know what's best

[cookee68]

I am still waiting for the day somebody runs a Thai bullshit paper, because everything that comes out of there mouth smells like a rotten fart

[z42]

Well when the head honcho has 1 billion baht, yes 1000,000,000 baht as his declared assets then surely one would have to ask how a simple police officer at any rank can honestly obtain such grand sums on a notoriously low salary. Not auditing him just makes a mockey of everything else that follows.

and only very recently the very public cash gifts given in the wake of mere arrests and a dubious confession around the bkk bombing. No verification, conviction or anything like that, pass the bricks of money around. And i'd be keen to know what percentage of those bricks go to the brass rather than the actual investigators, and i use that term loosely also.

Rotten to the core, and equally ineffective to boot.

[Baerboxer]

"The Royal Thai Police will be revamping its organizational image..."

It's all about image, not content. They're not talking about actually revamping the organization, only its image. Too bad Uncle Too found that reforming the state lottery was more urgent than reforming the police.

At least he doesn't pay them bribes rewards. Although he should stop it, especially when the payments are from criminals.

[Jimbo2014]

Hey.... its not April 1st is it?

Edited October 6, 2015 by Jimbo2014

[MZurf]

"The Royal Thai Police will be revamping its organizational image..."

It's all about image, not content. They're not talking about actually revamping the organization, only its image. Too bad Uncle Too found that reforming the state lottery was more urgent than reforming the police.

At least he doesn't pay them bribes rewards. Although he should stop it, especially when the payments are from criminals.

"At least he doesn't pay them bribes rewards."

Unfortunately he hasn't done sh!t with the police, but let them go about their ways as they've always done. And this guy is supposed to be the great saviour, remember?

One would think that with article 44 in his pocket and tanks in his garage he could blow the lid off the whole can of worms that is the RTP, but no, he's going after the state lottery.

Doesn't take much of an inquisitive mind to start questioning his motives.

[NickJ]

They should just start slow. No bribes the first Monday of every third month......After a few years everything will be fine.

[gemguy]

Well now......that is a bit of a funny story as we all know that sort of thing will not happen.

Meantime you have to remember it is a 2 sided coin while many officers are not asking for a bribe rather just waiting for the client to offer money to resolve a problem as it takes 2 parties to make the bribe official.

Often it is the client that corrupts the whole affair by "first" offering money to do what they want to have done by the police officer(s) when they see the officers are disinterested in their case or problem....or....possibly because the officer(s) are very busy with a huge multiple case load and everyone wants the attention of the police officers and have their case or their problem resolved first....so ...many people...that would be the public....offer money to speed things up...if you know what I mean

In many cases...a client ( that could be you some day ) would be very glad a problem can be resolved by way of paying a "fine", shall we say, rather than going through lengthy court proceedings that can go on for years.......and or go to jail or prison.

You may want it to be squeaky clean and all...... but realize the whole affair does not exist without the participation of the public at large.

Just saying...the truth be told.

Cheers

Edited October 7, 2015 by gemguy

[Broken Record]

"The Royal Thai Police will be revamping its organizational image..."

It's all about image, not content. They're not talking about actually revamping the organization, only its image. Too bad Uncle Too found that reforming the state lottery was more urgent than reforming the police.

At least he doesn't pay them bribes rewards. Although he should stop it, especially when the payments are from criminals.

"At least he doesn't pay them bribes rewards."

Unfortunately he hasn't done sh!t with the police, but let them go about their ways as they've always done. And this guy is supposed to be the great saviour, remember?

One would think that with article 44 in his pocket and tanks in his garage he could blow the lid off the whole can of worms that is the RTP, but no, he's going after the state lottery.

Doesn't take much of an inquisitive mind to start questioning his motives.

He can't probe too deeply into the Police Generals extraordinary wealth, he might have to explain in detail his own extraordinary wealth that he accumulated on a Soldiers pay, these people will never be held accountable unless they are wanted by the very top of the ladder, then they will fall and lose it all, but in the main, it just doesn't happen, the Army and the Police are needed as a private protection agency for the very few Thai people that are super wealthy and privileged.

If there was a huge crackdown on Armed Forces corruption and Police Corruption where the Generals would be asked to explain their incredible wealth, the super rich and privileged would be in danger of having no protection, and they are not willing to put themselves in danger, would you ?

[hawker9000]

Well now......that is a bit of a funny story as we all know that sort of thing will not happen.

Meantime you have to remember it is a 2 sided coin while many officers are not asking for a bribe rather just waiting for the client to offer money to resolve a problem as it takes 2 parties to make the bribe official.

Often it is the client that corrupts the whole affair by "first" offering money to do what they want to have done by the police officer(s) when they see the officers are disinterested in their case or problem....or....possibly because the officer(s) are very busy with a huge multiple case load and everyone wants the attention of the police officers and have their case or their problem resolved first....so ...many people...that would be the public....offer money to speed things up...if you know what I mean

In many cases...a client ( that could be you some day ) would be very glad a problem can be resolved by way of paying a "fine", shall we say, rather than going through lengthy court proceedings that can go on for years.......and or go to jail or prison.

You may want it to be squeaky clean and all...... but realize the whole affair does not exist without the participation of the public at large.

Just saying...the truth be told.

Cheers

'Say' what you want, but it's NOT the whole truth. It's strictly a chicken-or-the-egg thing. Everybody - and that's pretty much the whole world now (!) - knows that's just how the RTP are, and that's how matters involving police are resolved in Thailand. The "client" (as you put it) offers the bribe because he believes that, based on widely available information and long accepted practice, he's expected to. How many people in their right mind would hold back the "bribe" if they believe that if they do so, and pretty much as a direct result of doing so, they'll get hauled off to the precinct station and face a much larger penalty, being jailed, and no end of legal red tape? And the issue is compounded for foreigners who know going in they can expect the worst possible discriminatory treatment and virtually no legal protection. To many, right here at TVF, the bribery is all part & parcel with "Thainess", and one of those things you should either learn to "accept", or leave Thailand over & go home if you don't like it!

IOW, the public participates or "goes along" because they've been successfully intimidated into participating. It's called abuse of (police) power, and it's a slippery slope that's much easier to slide down than to climb back up.

Not really a 2-sided coin at all. More like a heavily and quite obviously loaded pair of dice, backed up by "enforcers" with police powers.

Yeah, Cheers

[gemguy]

Well now......that is a bit of a funny story as we all know that sort of thing will not happen.

Meantime you have to remember it is a 2 sided coin while many officers are not asking for a bribe rather just waiting for the client to offer money to resolve a problem as it takes 2 parties to make the bribe official.

Often it is the client that corrupts the whole affair by "first" offering money to do what they want to have done by the police officer(s) when they see the officers are disinterested in their case or problem....or....possibly because the officer(s) are very busy with a huge multiple case load and everyone wants the attention of the police officers and have their case or their problem resolved first....so ...many people...that would be the public....offer money to speed things up...if you know what I mean

In many cases...a client ( that could be you some day ) would be very glad a problem can be resolved by way of paying a "fine", shall we say, rather than going through lengthy court proceedings that can go on for years.......and or go to jail or prison.

You may want it to be squeaky clean and all...... but realize the whole affair does not exist without the participation of the public at large.

Just saying...the truth be told.

Cheers

'Say' what you want, but it's NOT the whole truth. It's strictly a chicken-or-the-egg thing. Everybody - and that's pretty much the whole world now (!) - knows that's just how the RTP are, and that's how matters involving police are resolved in Thailand. The "client" (as you put it) offers the bribe because he believes that, based on widely available information and long accepted practice, he's expected to. How many people in their right mind would hold back the "bribe" if they believe that if they do so, and pretty much as a direct result of doing so, they'll get hauled off to the precinct station and face a much larger penalty, being jailed, and no end of legal red tape? And the issue is compounded for foreigners who know going in they can expect the worst possible discriminatory treatment and virtually no legal protection. To many, right here at TVF, the bribery is all part & parcel with "Thainess", and one of those things you should either learn to "accept", or leave Thailand over & go home if you don't like it!

IOW, the public participates or "goes along" because they've been successfully intimidated into participating. It's called abuse of (police) power, and it's a slippery slope that's much easier to slide down than to climb back up.

Not really a 2-sided coin at all. More like a heavily and quite obviously loaded pair of dice, backed up by "enforcers" with police powers.

Yeah, Cheers

With out a doubt the police are corrupted while everyone knows that.

Not all of them though.

But still there are plenty of cases where originally the officer is corrupted and not the other way around.

It is easy to blame the officers all the time while everyone participates ( the average citizen ) in many forms directly or indirectly.

You said:

IOW, the public participates or "goes along" because they've been successfully intimidated into participating. It's called abuse of (police) power, and it's a slippery slope that's much easier to slide down than to climb back up.

Not always....far from it, as there are plenty of cases past, present and into the future where the public has in mind to pay the police officer for his time and effort to solve or resolve or fix a problem and it is not considered a bribe rather it is considered a show of gratitude in the form of compensation for the police officers attention and efforts to resolve their problem.

Happens all the time and not only with police officers while it is not corruption per say.

It works both ways...but if you loath the RTP and think they were all born corrupted and destined to be corrupted police officers then you will never come to realize or understand the complexities of how corruption has evolved in any country ...not only Thailand.

You are referring to extortion and police intimidation more so than corruption in general ...but what you speak of is true.

There are books published about those complexities....but meantime I know well what you speak of as I have been caught up in what you refer to....... many years ago.....

Cheers

Edited October 8, 2015 by gemguy

[hawker9000]

Well now......that is a bit of a funny story as we all know that sort of thing will not happen.

Meantime you have to remember it is a 2 sided coin while many officers are not asking for a bribe rather just waiting for the client to offer money to resolve a problem as it takes 2 parties to make the bribe official.

Often it is the client that corrupts the whole affair by "first" offering money to do what they want to have done by the police officer(s) when they see the officers are disinterested in their case or problem....or....possibly because the officer(s) are very busy with a huge multiple case load and everyone wants the attention of the police officers and have their case or their problem resolved first....so ...many people...that would be the public....offer money to speed things up...if you know what I mean

In many cases...a client ( that could be you some day ) would be very glad a problem can be resolved by way of paying a "fine", shall we say, rather than going through lengthy court proceedings that can go on for years.......and or go to jail or prison.

You may want it to be squeaky clean and all...... but realize the whole affair does not exist without the participation of the public at large.

Just saying...the truth be told.

Cheers

'Say' what you want, but it's NOT the whole truth. It's strictly a chicken-or-the-egg thing. Everybody - and that's pretty much the whole world now (!) - knows that's just how the RTP are, and that's how matters involving police are resolved in Thailand. The "client" (as you put it) offers the bribe because he believes that, based on widely available information and long accepted practice, he's expected to. How many people in their right mind would hold back the "bribe" if they believe that if they do so, and pretty much as a direct result of doing so, they'll get hauled off to the precinct station and face a much larger penalty, being jailed, and no end of legal red tape? And the issue is compounded for foreigners who know going in they can expect the worst possible discriminatory treatment and virtually no legal protection. To many, right here at TVF, the bribery is all part & parcel with "Thainess", and one of those things you should either learn to "accept", or leave Thailand over & go home if you don't like it!

IOW, the public participates or "goes along" because they've been successfully intimidated into participating. It's called abuse of (police) power, and it's a slippery slope that's much easier to slide down than to climb back up.

Not really a 2-sided coin at all. More like a heavily and quite obviously loaded pair of dice, backed up by "enforcers" with police powers.

Yeah, Cheers

With out a doubt the police are corrupted while everyone knows that.

Not all of them though.

But still there are plenty of cases where originally the officer is corrupted and not the other way around.

It is easy to blame the officers all the time while everyone participates ( the average citizen ) in many forms directly or indirectly.

You said:

IOW, the public participates or "goes along" because they've been successfully intimidated into participating. It's called abuse of (police) power, and it's a slippery slope that's much easier to slide down than to climb back up.

Not always....far from it, as there are plenty of cases past, present and into the future where the public has in mind to pay the police officer for his time and effort to solve or resolve or fix a problem and it is not considered a bribe rather it is considered a show of gratitude in the form of compensation for the police officers attention and efforts to resolve their problem.

Happens all the time and not only with police officers while it is not corruption per say.

It works both ways...but if you loath the RTP and think they were all born corrupted and destined to be corrupted police officers then you will never come to realize or understand the complexities of how corruption has evolved in any country ...not only Thailand.

You are referring to extortion and police intimidation more so than corruption in general ...but what you speak of is true.

There are books published about those complexities....but meantime I know well what you speak of as I have been caught up in what you refer to....... many years ago.....

Cheers

Back in the day, I (perhaps a bit naively) thought I could call, and would have called, on the police if I ever found myself in difficulty, and could more-or-less rely on them to deliver assistance and fair, or at least reasonable, treatment. Now I give them a wide berth, consider them basically a menace, particularly where farangs are concerned, and would call on them only in the worst possible extremis.

[jackted]

Does this mean we`re on a slow path to getting my 60,000 baht back from a joint police/mafia CTH scam?..........probably not

On a more positive note, I was stopped recently for being in the wrong lane in Khon Kaen (due to crazy roadworks it was hard to find any lane). Policeman didn`t want any money...how refreshing! But he did insist, in Thai, to my wife, that I go immediately to the police station.Upon pointing out to him that on my wifes lap was a newly born baby and that he`d have to shoot me first..... a thunderbolt of lightening struck...he discovered how to speak English, couldn`t apologize enough and bid us farewell. Image restored :-)

[Joe Brennan]

Whenever you see a Thai policeman on TV, you know 2 things about him/her.

1. They are incompetent when compared to their 1st and 2nd world counterparts. A deeply rooted, organisational incompetence, one which will require a cultural solution starting with education. It will need at least 2 generations, and that isn't going to happen.

2. No matter who they are, at some point in their police career, they have either given or received illegal payments.

As the old Irishman said; "If you wanted to go there, you wouldn't start from here'.

Not going to happen, apart from (perhaps) a cosmetic exercise designed to suggest the pig isn't really a pig. Alas, the pig really is a pig and whatever PR stunts they come up with are designed only to improve public perception, not to really reduce corruption - too many people earn too much money from it.

If a real exercise to reduce or stop corruption were started, people would start being killed to protect it, same as happened with the Saudi jewellery.

If you had a golden goose which kept laying golden eggs, would *you* stop it from laying them?

I didn't think so.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Joe Brennan

[hawker9000]

Whenever you see a Thai policeman on TV, you know 2 things about him/her.

1. They are incompetent when compared to their 1st and 2nd world counterparts. A deeply rooted, organisational incompetence, one which will require a cultural solution starting with education. It will need at least 2 generations, and that isn't going to happen.

2. No matter who they are, at some point in their police career, they have either given or received illegal payments.

As the old Irishman said; "If you wanted to go there, you wouldn't start from here'.

Not going to happen, apart from (perhaps) a cosmetic exercise designed to suggest the pig isn't really a pig. Alas, the pig really is a pig and whatever PR stunts they come up with are designed only to improve public perception, not to really reduce corruption - too many people earn too much money from it.

If a real exercise to reduce or stop corruption were started, people would start being killed to protect it, same as happened with the Saudi jewellery.

If you had a golden goose which kept laying golden eggs, would *you* stop it from laying them?

I didn't think so.

The way it gets stopped is I suspect somewhere out there beyond the bounds of allowed discussion. In the meantime, I think the best anyone can hope for is some sort of "containment". Don't ask; just flame away, because I have no idea what that means ...

[mrrizzla]

We all have our different opinions on here about many things in Thailand. The politics, culture, education, ethics and so on....

But I think the one thing we can agree on in near total unison (there are few 'plants' in the koh tao murder threads) is that this police 'force' is an absolute shambles of an organization. When they aren't being massively corrupt they are being massively incompetent when they actually have to do some real police work.

reds to yellows, young to old, farang to Thai. I think 99% of us can agree on this.