Dual Citizen

[skytiger]

I wonder what happens if my wife, currently a Thai citizen if she acquires US citizenship.

If my wife leaves the US she must use her US passport. Upon arrival in Bangkok, the US passport will be stamped.

In the event my wife remains in Thailand for longer than her entry visa (60 days)

Thai Airport Immigration Control states that my wife will have to apply for a Thai Visa since she entered the country using a US passport.

Is there a better way to approach this dilemma.

[lopburi3]

Your wife leaves/enters the USA on her US passport but enters/leaves Thailand on her Thai passport. No problem. When check in at airline done in Bangkok she shows them her US passport to prove no visa needed. Same in US; show Thai passport if asked about visa.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

If she travels on her Thai passport and something goes wrong, she is not entitled to seek US consular assistance, she'll need to rely on Thailand for assistance. As long as you are aware of that. If a US citizen elects to travel on another passport, the consular responsibility passes to that other country

[JimGant]

Skytiger,

If your wife decides to enter Thailand on her US passport, she can get it stamped right there in Don Muang Airport, allowing for an extended stay of one year from date of entry. This is done at the immigration windows -- don't proceed with the crowds to the immigration podiums, as they'll just refer her to those windows (because paperwork and money involved). She'll need to prove she's a Thai national, and of course her Thai passport will suffice.

No need for her to get a tourist visa (you mentioned getting a 60-day visa, which is a tourist visa, and will cost you). Effectively, she's approaching the immigraion window with a 30-day no-visa-required position (allowed for the US, among many others, and at no cost). And if she's too tired upon arrival to face added immigration procedures, she can get the 30-day stamp at the podium, and go to any immigration office in Thailand within those 30 days to get her one year stamp. All this will cost about $150 baht equivalent, assuming she gets a multiple entry stamp (recommended, unless she doesn't plan to leave and return to Thailand within a year). Oh, make sure she has a few (two, I think) passport-sized photos with her. Maybe Don Muang now has a nearby photo vender, but I'm not sure. However, the other immigration locations in Thailand sure do.

If she doesn't plan to stay more than 90 days, a Nonimmigrant 'O' visa will cost her $125, to include multiple entries. This will give her unlimited 90 day entries into Thailand, up to the day before visa expiration (i.e, effectively a 15 month visa, consisting of 5 x 90 day visits). And if she needs more than 90 days, she can pay for an extension at immigration (or, at that point, pay the baht and get the one year stamp).

The dual passport option recently got my attention. But I'm getting long winded, so will address that in another reply here. Oh, my wife went through the above at Don Muang two years ago, having dual US/Thai citizenship. Since then, she's renewed this one year stamp in Chiang Mai. So, I assume things are still procedurally the same at Don Muang, but I won't swear to it.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Jim it is only an extension. Whether ten days or a year, the fee is 1900 baht ( plus any re-entry permit that may be needed. )

[JimGant]

Whether ten days or a year, the fee is 1900 baht

Doc,

Didn't realize that. Obviously, then, the choice is get as many days as you can for your 1900 baht.

Changing direction somewhat, the wife just renewed her one year extension, plus multiple entry stamp, and was floored by the new rates (I'd warned her, but I think she thought 'Thai nationals' would be treated differently -- nope, no discounts for Thais with watered-down citizenships). So, she asked a senior immigration officer (Chiang Mai) about using both (Thai and US) passports to travel. He said (as you and Lopburi have said) that this is legal, BUT that some immigration officers would not be familiar with this, and thus could cause some difficulty. {Imagine, an immigration officer not up to speed on immigration law, but then issuing ad hoc decrees based on whim ] However, the renewal price has gotten too high, so she anticipates going the two passport route a year from now. But I still see a few potential road bumps:

-- Do departure immigration officials at Don Muang actually check Thai passports for a valid visa for destination? It's actually the airline that is responsible for insuring that the passenger has a valid visa -- and since she would check in to the airline with her US passport, visa checking responsiblity (or equivalent) has been met. So, immigration really doesn't have a legal responsibility in this regard. And if they don't check, there's no dealing with a confused (and potentially autocratic) immigration official. [best case, obviously.]

Does anyone know for sure whether or not departure immigration checks Thai passports for destination visas? And if a dual US/Thai citizen has experience with the above, and they checked for a visa, was flashing your US passport good enough to proceed?

-- Also, a new quirk: I left Thailand last month for the States. United put a sticker on the back of my passport when I checked in. It was removed when I went through security at the jetway. I don't recall if departure immigration turned the passport over to check for the sticker. But it's obvious they're looking at continuity of passport -- from check-in to boarding. I just wonder if immigration is also involved in this continuity, which, then, would certainly mean both passports would need to be shown to immigration. [Worse case, particularly if the B team is working that shift.]

Any experience anyone could share would be very helpful.

We certainly plan to go the two passport route next year. Just curious about experienced problems, if any.

Oh, Skytiger. Forget all my previous advice. Have your wife travel dual passport. Then, report back.

[lopburi3]

Using the passport of the country you enter/leave is the accepted method and only legal option in many cases (including the USA in most cases). You lose nothing. Your citizenship remains dual and can not believe a consular officer would refuse service unless it is travel to a third country when the "document of travel country" would probably be observed as first choice for action but even then there is little that can be done in most cases as any traveler is subject to the law of the country they travel in. Dual citizenship is a very complex issue with few rules and a work in progress but a reading of the below link, para 4, may help relieve some doubt's as to the propriety of using both passports.

US Government dual nationals

[samran]

-- Do departure immigration officials at Don Muang actually check Thai passports for a valid visa for destination? It's actually the airline that is responsible for insuring that the passenger has a valid visa -- and since she would check in to the airline with her US passport, visa checking responsiblity (or equivalent) has been met. So, immigration really doesn't have a legal responsibility in this regard. And if they don't check, there's no dealing with a confused (and potentially autocratic) immigration official. [best case, obviously.]

Does anyone know for sure whether or not departure immigration checks Thai passports for destination visas? And if a dual US/Thai citizen has experience with the above, and they checked for a visa, was flashing your US passport good enough to proceed?

-- Also, a new quirk: I left Thailand last month for the States. United put a sticker on the back of my passport when I checked in. It was removed when I went through security at the jetway. I don't recall if departure immigration turned the passport over to check for the sticker. But it's obvious they're looking at continuity of passport -- from check-in to boarding. I just wonder if immigration is also involved in this continuity, which, then, would certainly mean both passports would need to be shown to immigration. [Worse case, particularly if the B team is working that shift.]

Any experience anyone could share would be very helpful.

We certainly plan to go the two passport route next year. Just curious about experienced problems, if any.

Oh, Skytiger. Forget all my previous advice. Have your wife travel dual passport. Then, report back.

None of this is immigrations job (in any country). At Don Muang they only check the thai passport and stamp you out on it. What you do after that is none of their business. Plus, they don't care.

It is the airlines responsibility though to check if the traveller has permission to travel to the final desitination. My trick is to hand both passports (Thai and OZ) at airline check in, thus showing them I have permission to travel on my OZ PP to anywhere I want to go.

At immigration, I just show my Thai PP and get stamped out. My Thai PP has pages of entry/exit stamps for Thailand, but very few stamps for other countries.

If your wife does this, she will be fine.

It has also been my experience that many Thai immigration officials don't have a clue when it comes to dual citizenship. My advice is, never ever ever let on to immigration that your wife has two passports as it can creates hassel in my experience.

The other thing is, by all means do the PP swap when travelling from Thailand to Europe/US and Australia.

But don't do it when travelling around SE Asia, via land or air. Immigration in other SE nations tend to look for the the exit stamp of the last country of departure and if they can't find it, they get all flustered (HK, Cambodia and Malaysia particularly). So if travelling from Thailand for a quick weekend trip somewhere, use the Thai PP to maintain "stamp continuity". Visa wise, it shouldn't matter, as Thais get the at least the same and in many cases preferential visa treatment in SE Asia when compared to westerners.

[huski]

United put a sticker on the back of my passport when I checked in. It was removed when I went through security at the jetway. I don't recall if departure immigration turned the passport over to check for the sticker. But it's obvious they're looking at continuity of passport

united is sticker happy, they have been giving them to flyers to wear on their shirts for years. it doesn't need to be on your shirt or on your passport. your boarding pass and passport gets you on the plane, not a sticker.

It has also been my experience that many Thai immigration officials don't have a clue when it comes to dual citizenship. My advice is, never ever ever let on to immigration that your wife has two passports as it can creates hassel in my experience.

The other thing is, by all means do the PP swap when travelling from Thailand to Europe/US and Australia.

good advise

[JimGant]

Thanks all. Just the kind of input I was looking for. Samran's situation is the same as my wife's, so she'll be relieved when I show her this.

Lop, the dual citizenship thing has resonated back here of late, as we've a Taliban ###### in the brig in South Carolina who was born in New Orleans, but left shortly thereafter for his Saudi Arabia home. US law says he's an American due to birth (dumb), and the liberal crowd endorses this. But the article you sent, which was quoted awhile back in the Washington Post, points out that 'intent' to give up US citizenship can be demonstrated by actions. I would think shooting at US troops would fit that bill. But, no, the ACLU wants to wrap the flag around him. Sucks!

Huski, yeah United's been sticking their logos on passengers for years, and they still do. But the new, smaller sticker now goes on your passport -- and both stickers are retrieved at the jetway, a new procedure. Before, I'd forget about that sticker on my shirt until it headed for the laundry at destination.