Drafting a charter for Thai-style democracy a challenge: Meechai

[webfact]

NEW CHARTER
Drafting a charter for Thai-style democracy a challenge: Meechai
KASAMAKORN CHANWANPEN
THE NATION



Meechai invites public participation, but has banned the media

BANGKOK: -- THE NEW chief charter drafter yesterday admitted it would be a challenge to write a new Constitution compatible with Thai-style democracy.

Constitution Drafting Committee (CDC)'s chairman Meechai Ruchupan said to write a new charter in line with Thai traditions, culture and lifestyle, would be very difficult - but the CDC would figure out how to do it and make it work.

"We [the CDC] agreed that it wasn't possible to just follow or copy from Western constitutions. Thai society differed from other countries and we need to deliberate on how to make it work with Thai ways too," he said.

The new CDC would trace as far back as the 1975 Constitution for a charter prototype, Meechai explained. The team considered the 1975 draft because it had been deemed the most democratic the country had ever drawn up.

Studying key principles

Concerning progress of the charter drafting, the chairman said that initially the team was looking at the main frameworks - Article 35 of the 2014 interim charter and the five principles passed down from the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO).

After his team draws up the charter and its principles, they would pass the baton on to technical charter drafting groups. And finally, the 21-member CDC would give the draft its final touches, Meechai explained.

Asked if a new charter working alongside "Thai ways" would mean we needed some sort of a Big Brother to oversee us, Meechai replied he hadn't yet thought about that aspect. He asked everyone to share their ideas as the panel was very open to opinions and participation.

The drafter chief went on to stress that the panel cared about the people's voices. For example, should anyone have ideas about how the charter should be - or how to tackle corruption as one of the core principles the NCPO wished to see in the draft - the panel was ready to listen, he said.

Although the new committee gave importance to participation, Meechai insisted the CDC could not allow the media to observe meeting proceedings for now because of time limitations. However, he said he believed during its final processes the media could join in the meeting.

Meechai was seeking to have Borwornsak Uwanno as an adviser to his new panel but the former charter drafter chief was still hesitant.

After his draft was shot down last month, Borwornsak vowed not to take any role in the new round of Constitution drafting. He was reluctant to take the adviser role, fearing it might provoke criticism, Meechai said.

However, Meechai would ask his predecessor to the join the team as an individual who had worked with the 1997 charter drafting team - and not as the chief of the now defunct CDC.

"If you [the media] don't mind, I will ask him again to reconsider. His acceptance could benefit the drafting," Meechai said.

Eyeing previous drafters

The CDC chairman added he would also recruit some of those involved with writing of the 1997, 2007, and 2015 charters as advisers. The new panel could learn what the principles behind those drafts were. If there were some common points advantageous to the country, the new drafting panel would include them in the new draft, he said.

However, no official invitations had been sent to those people yet. The CDC was still waiting for the right time, Meechai said.

In a related development, CDC spokespersons Amorn Wanichwiwatana and Norachit Sinhaseni reported yesterday that to serve the framework and principles set for this new draft, they would invite agents from different affiliations to discuss problems facing the country, which the new charter could help solve.

Also, they said that the meeting agreed to set up another two sub bodies. One is to examine the legislative structure and the other for studying the executive, they said. Both bodies would work to study the pros and cons of different political regimes to help perfect the new Constitution, they said.

DRAFTING ROAD MAP

- First working week-mid October: Charter drafting based on Article 35 of the interim charter and the five NCPO principles.

- Mid October-November: Gathering of public opinion and various surveys

- December: Article by Article charter deliberation.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Drafting-a-charter-for-Thai-style-democracy-a-chal-30270412.html


-- The Nation 2015-10-08

[noitom]

This Thai pontificates about "Thai style democracy." What a charade.

[tbthailand]

There is no such thing as "Thai-style democracy".

There is democracy and then there is authoritarian, paternalistic, feudal Thai-style fake-democracy...

No one is fooled ...

[bamnutsak]

Meechai invites public participation, but has banned the media

Good for him. The last thing one expects is "transparency" when crafting the latest version of a Constitution.

This work should be done in secret.

[realenglish1]

Lets See now This must be charter # 6 or 7 When I first started coming here in the 1980s they had a charter then chucked it Then wrote another one and chucked that one then another.

The whole idea behind a charter is once it is written its law That is it . Just because you don't like the law does not mean you cancel a charter and write a new one .

Haven't Thais heard of Amendments? This cycle of re writing charters will never stop and the internal crisis will continue because no one has respect for the law or the charter.

[Bob12345]

"We [the CDC] agreed that it wasn't possible to just follow or copy from Western constitutions. Thai society differed from other countries and we need to deliberate on how to make it work with Thai ways too," he said.

They say things like this a lot, but they never explain in what way Thai society is so different.

I can come up with a ton of funny reasons how Thais are different (brainwashed, uneducated, fine with being slaves, etc) but I am seriously wondering why nobody ever asks for more details when someone mentions it.

Bottom line is that Thai society is not that different from western societies at all. Thai people also want freedom of speech, a right to decide what will happen with their country, feeling secure, justice, and opportunities to create their own happiness and riches by hard work. Saying Thai society is so different is just an excuse to come up with a constitution that protects the people who are in power now. As soon as I read that statement I know what side the constitution writers are on and I also know that it is just a matter of time till the current constitution is rejected/thrown out.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Bob12345

[oneday]

Drafting a charter for Thai-style democracy a challenge: Meechai

...a challenge to follow what the NCPO wants and yet make it look like real Democracy when in fact it couldn't be further from it.

[yellowboat]

Taiwan has a nice democracy. Is it western styled ? It seems that they need not set up a revolving door for the army to come in sort things out with Thai Traditions. It sounds like a church and state problem. This is all theater without an independent, non political judiciary..

[Always18]

Drafting a charter for Thai-style democracy a challenge: Meechai

...a challenge to follow what the NCPO wants and yet make it look like real Democracy when in fact it couldn't be further from it.

The sad truth indeed - perhaps Khun Meechai could try putting lipstick on a pig and then attempt to convince everyone that it's Miss Thailand...................

[waldroj]

Assuming the draft Charter gets accepted at referendum then (according to the roadmap), the path to democratic elections in mid-2017 should be clear.

Drafting the Charter is going to be the easy part. Getting it accepted by the Thai people, and then getting them to accept its rules, is going to be the real challenge for Thailand.

Constitutions are nothing more than rules that governments and their citizens should follow.

As has been the case on 19 previous occasion, Thailand had had a Constitution, but its rules have been broken (and the democratic process fails).

Clearly, Thai-style democratic is quite different to that which most farang are familiar with.

[baboon]

To be fair, it must be extremely difficult to continually rewrite a constitution that is worded to maintain the status quo and include the clause that basically keeps the army in charge, yet attempt to fool an increasingly informed and sceptical public that this is not the case.

[ddavidovsky]

"Thai society differed from other countries and we need to deliberate on how to make [the constitution] work with Thai ways too," he said.

Translation: the ruling class have engineered society for decades into something that allows the ruling class to rule perpetually but the constitution must somehow present the illusion of democracy in order to maintain good relations with the rest of the world necessary for the tourism industry.

[zaphod reborn]

Thai-style democracy is writing constitutions, electing governments that ignore the constitution, having a coup, ripping up the constitution . . . rinse, repeat. A never-ending cycle of corruption, waste and incompetents allowed to parade themselves as national and international leaders.

[lovelomsak]

Thai-style democracy is writing constitutions, electing governments that ignore the constitution, having a coup, ripping up the constitution . . . rinse, repeat. A never-ending cycle of corruption, waste and incompetents allowed to parade themselves as national and international leaders.

If insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results would it be safe to say Thailand is ran by insane individuals or parties?

[baboon]

Thai-style democracy is writing constitutions, electing governments that ignore the constitution, having a coup, ripping up the constitution . . . rinse, repeat. A never-ending cycle of corruption, waste and incompetents allowed to parade themselves as national and international leaders.

If insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results would it be safe to say Thailand is ran by insane individuals or parties?

Ah, but it'll be different this time, you see...

[taony]

What's so difficult? Write down anything and call it a charter, then do whatever you want anyway. Simple really.

[mikemac]

And when the Shins buy their way into power the Constitution will be designed to suit their needs etc etc etc............................

[GAZZPA]

There is no such thing as "Thai-style democracy".

There is democracy and then there is authoritarian, paternalistic, feudal Thai-style fake-democracy...

No one is fooled ...

Completely correct. Democracy is a very clear ideal and it encompasses different cultures no problem (unless Thai style means riddled with corruption) I cannot see Thailand re writing democracy in a more effective way,, it will be interesting to see what they draught now.

if Thailand were really serious about re inventing democracy and capitalism then I think they should avoid the unfair and immoral (but legal) practices in the West.. For example no more bonuses for banks running on loses, its crazy.

I read something a long time ago about "moral capitalism" which maintained the freedom for people to work and get justly rewarded but outlined immoral practices as unacceptable.

That to me would be amazing if Thailand were to go that kind of route then they really would be pioneering.. Anyway, one can dream,,,

[MZurf]

"We [the CDC] agreed that it wasn't possible to just follow or copy from Western constitutions. Thai society differed from other countries and we need to deliberate on how to make it work with Thai ways too," he said.

They say things like this a lot, but they never explain in what way Thai society is so different.

I can come up with a ton of funny reasons how Thais are different (brainwashed, uneducated, fine with being slaves, etc) but I am seriously wondering why nobody ever asks for more details when someone mentions it.

Bottom line is that Thai society is not that different from western societies at all. Thai people also want freedom of speech, a right to decide what will happen with their country, feeling secure, justice, and opportunities to create their own happiness and riches by hard work. Saying Thai society is so different is just an excuse to come up with a constitution that protects the people who are in power now. As soon as I read that statement I know what side the constitution writers are on and I also know that it is just a matter of time till the current constitution is rejected/thrown out.

Well said, Bob. I'd love to hear exactly what it is with Thai society that makes it unfit for "traditional" democracy. As you, I believe that that's only "code" for saying that the old elite must remain in power and that the great unwashed masses under no circumstances must be allowed to freely elect Thailand's leaders.

Edited October 8, 2015 by MZurf

[MZurf]

And when the Shins buy their way into power the Constitution will be designed to suit their needs etc etc etc............................

At least they were elected, and could be unseated in an election. The junta weren't and can't. But I know that doesn't matter to you. One question though; if you had a choice between being bought off and having a gun shoved in your face what would you prefer?

[yellowboat]

Drafting a charter for Thai-style democracy a challenge: Meechai

...a challenge to follow what the NCPO wants and yet make it look like real Democracy when in fact it couldn't be further from it.

The sad truth indeed - perhaps Khun Meechai could try putting lipstick on a pig and then attempt to convince everyone that it's Miss Thailand...................

Doubt there will be the any need for vote buying. as no reconciliation as taken place and the Shins enjoy a large voting block. A voting block that the Yellows are afraid to even address. The buying votes thing is just old news.

[JAG]

Drafting a charter for Thai-style democracy a challenge: Meechai

...a challenge to follow what the NCPO wants and yet make it look like real Democracy when in fact it couldn't be further from it.

The sad truth indeed - perhaps Khun Meechai could try putting lipstick on a pig and then attempt to convince everyone that it's Miss Thailand...................

Doubt there will be the any need for vote buying. as no reconciliation as taken place and the Shins enjoy a large voting block. A voting block that the Yellows are afraid to even address. The buying votes thing is just old news.

You're probably right about the vote buying - it's irrelevant anyway as you point out.

The thrust of this "reform" will be to somehow disenfranchise that voting block. Until they manage that there will be no election, they cannot afford to stage one unless they are sure that they will win.

It looks like they have realised that giving the junta some sort of permanent oversight role is not going to float either.

They're going to have to fall back on good old fashioned gerrymandering.

[Thai at Heart]

Hahaha. I knew it. Thailand is going to reinvent democracy....

[sjaak327]

And when the Shins buy their way into power the Constitution will be designed to suit their needs etc etc etc............................

Ah the vote buying nonsense. How dare any government with a clear and undisputed mandate change the constitution ! That privilege is reserved for military types that take power at gun point of course...

This post clearly points to the root cause of the political problems of Thailand, if people refuse to accept election results and the subsequent direction of any government with a mandate, democracy can never work.

[taony]

Looking at the picture, everyone attending the meeting gets a flad widescreen monitor so they can see the guy that's just a few meters away?

[fred Kubasa]

Only a " challenge " for Thais. Otherwise just simple child's play ! I

could probably, ( with a coffee break), do it in 1 hour !

[lamecn]

Winston Churchill said:

“The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.”

[jchfriis]

Winston Churchill said:

“The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.”

He also said:

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

[ddavidovsky]

Winston Churchill said:

“The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.”

Churchill was an outdated right-wing prig, though I believe he was mainly joking in this case.

Voters are only expected to know what is best for themselves in their particular circumstances, and everybody knows what is best for themselves. Assuming all human beings are have equal rights, everyone should have the right to express that in a vote.

Voters aren't expected to know everything about law and economics and governance and foreign policy etc. They elect parliamentary representatives who understand those things better. That's the system.

Either you believe everyone has equal rights or your don't. This government doesn't.

[elgordo38]

Assuming the draft Charter gets accepted at referendum then (according to the roadmap), the path to democratic elections in mid-2017 should be clear.

Drafting the Charter is going to be the easy part. Getting it accepted by the Thai people, and then getting them to accept its rules, is going to be the real challenge for Thailand.

Constitutions are nothing more than rules that governments and their citizens should follow.

As has been the case on 19 previous occasion, Thailand had had a Constitution, but its rules have been broken (and the democratic process fails).

Clearly, Thai-style democratic is quite different to that which most farang are familiar with.

Quote As has been the case on 19 previous occasion, Thailand had had a Constitution, but its rules have been broken (and the democratic process fails). This is exactly what the for Thailand only constitution is all about.