ILR for Bereaved Spouse

[durhamboy]

About a year ago the British husband of a Thai friend of ours died whilst they were living in the UK. She is currently here having just got FLR before her husband died. She now wants to apply for ILR and I am trying to help her.

I understand the application form she needs to submit is :-

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/447863/SET_O__Version_08-15.pdf

This is an 84 page form the vast majority of which has no relevance to bereaved spouses. Most of it concerns applications in other categories and LITUK and B1 English which she does not require as a bereaved spouse.

So a few questions if I may :-

1. Do I need to print off and submit the entire form or only those sections that apply in this case?

2. Will the fact that she has waited for a year after her husband's death make any difference? Personally I think not as she is legally here with her FLR.

3. I heard that the fee of £1500 can be waived in cases of financial problems. However I can't see any reference to this in the form or guidance notes. The fee has to be paid with the application so would a letter requesting a refund be appropriate?

Many thanks.

[7by7]

1) I'm afraid you'll need to print off the entire form; though obviously she only needs to complete the relevant parts.

It's so long because, as you know, it's a general form for all sorts of categories; better, I'd have thought, to have a stand alone form for bereaved partners, as there is for victims of domestic violence.

2) No. She could have applied immediately after his death; but as long as she still has a valid LTR when she does apply she'll be fine.

3) Sorry, I don't know; though I. too, understand that the fee can be waived in such circumstances.

[bobrussell]

Chrome crashed as I was writing!

The sections that can be ignored are clearly marked, most of the complicated ones can be ignored!

Fee waiver is quite limited:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/420914/Fee_Waiver_Policy_-_April_2015.pdf

Quite complicated but certainly the fees were waived for my sister in law who ended up destitute as the result of domestic violence. Now seems to be restricted to human rights cases.

[durhamboy]

7by7 and Bob, many thanks for the advice. Looking at the fee waiver guidelines they say that this cannot be given for ILR applications (but can for FLR applications!). Seems strange but it was a long shot anyway and she will just have to pay the fee.

Bob, you are right in saying that it is easy to identify the irrelevant sections - which is about 80% of the form! It seems that you had some experience of this form with your sister-in-law (I remember from a previous topic) so may I ask if you agree with 7by7 that the whole form needs to be printed off and completed? - pity the poor trees!

Thanks again.

[bobrussell]

Print the lot! The Home Office will go looking for the pages if they are not sent in!

My sister in law was assisted by a very good immigration solicitor plus the Police, Social Services and a women's refuge so this was one application form I did not fill in.

Financial help is probably still available but the page on gov.uk is 'under review'. I cannot find any link or forms to apply for non-human rights help but it must be there somewhere. I will keep looking! It was necessary to have her financial situation thoroughly investigated and I doubt there would have been help had she had a single penny to her name! The rules then were that the fee would be waived if it would make the applicant destitute.

I have had many unimpressive interactions with the Home Office/UKBA/UKVI but they were faultless on this occasion. ILR was fast tracked and a vignette in her passport within a week!

Old advice sheets indicate that the expectation is that a bereaved partner will receive ILR with very few questions asked. A death certificate says it all. The same guidance notes even make a point of advising Home Office staff that this should happen even if the applicant has been in the UK for a very short time!

My advice would be to add that she has been trying to get her life together after her loss and had really not considered her immigration status until now. This explains the delay. Not sure I would be wanting to deal with the Home Office after such a loss.

My guess is they will be very understanding and quick to process the application. I suspect she will have to pay though!

[durhamboy]

Bob, many thanks for the comprehensive advice.

[durhamboy]

Just starting the application and I noticed that although she got her FLR last year (and got her BRP) there is no FLR stamp in her passport. Is it correct that the Home Office no longer stamps FLR in passports?

Also her husband died just 9 nine days after she got FLR. One of the conditions is to prove co-habitation with her husband from the last grant of FLR up to his death. Obviously a bit difficult when this is only 9 days. However, she was the informant on his death cert and that also shows the same address so I'm assuming that is ok.

[wooloomooloo]

1. Correct, there will be no FLR stamp in your friend's passport. Her current immigration status is detailed on her BRP.

2. The husband's death certificate would appear to fit the requirement of co-habitation.

[wooloomooloo]

... I should have added that your friend might want to submit one or two of her most recent utility bills for good measure, even if they pre-date her husband's death. That's assuming her name is also on the bills?

[durhamboy]

Thanks for that. It does seem a bit surprising that FLRs are not stamped into passports. It could cause confusion e.g. say she went on holiday somewhere there is nothing in her passport to show at check-in when she flies back that she has a valid visa for the UK. So she would have to show her BRP but does every country understand the BRP? And what if she lost or forgot it?

[wooloomooloo]

It does seem a bit surprising that FLRs are not stamped into passports. It could cause confusion e.g. say she went on holiday somewhere there is nothing in her passport to show at check-in when she flies back that she has a valid visa for the UK. So she would have to show her BRP but does every country understand the BRP? And what if she lost or forgot it?

As Seve Ballesteros used to say 'don't leave home without it'. A good question, though. Strangely enough, even though my wife has a British passport now, I still remind her to bring her BRP card with her on holiday. It's valid until November 2022 and, technically, if we lost her British passport on holiday, we could return to the UK without too much of a problem. It would save messing about with foreign consulates.

Anyway, it's not about every country understanding a BRP, it's the airlines, and they know exactly what they're looking at.

Lost or forgot a BRP? Then it would be the same procedure as losing your British passport.

[durhamboy]

Thought I'd just give an update on this.

She just got a letter from the Home Office :-

1. Despite already having a BRP she is being instructed to attend the Post Office for another one. Is that usual for ILR applications?

2. They have sent her a little form asking if there are additional grounds for her to stay in the UK. This is a bit worrying. I thought the fact that her husband had died was sufficient grounds to stay. Anyway, on my advice, she has put that she now has roots here and owns a house and has a job. This was not asked about in the 84-page form she originally submitted.

3. They are saying that they will decide her application "within 6 months" - seems an inordinately long time especially as I thought that bereavement cases were decided very quickly i.e. in a few weeks.

[7by7]

1) Yes.

2) What she has answered seems fine to me.

3) Standard period given, I think. Hopefully it wont take that long.

[bobrussell]

It states very clearly in guidance that ILR should be issued even if the applicant has just arrived in the UK. Very few questions asked. The death certificate says it all! Had her spouse died before the FLR was issued she would have had to go straight to an ILR application as she would not have been able to sign some of the declarations.

Her husband died after FLR so she was perfectly entitled to that leave.

The trip to the Post Office just confirms she is the right person so is not a concern.

As for the additional grounds bit, it could be someone trying it on a bit at the Home Office. Her support network and home are now in the UK therefore the UK is the place for her to remain! The rules are very clear and except in circumstances where deception is used, she has every right to remain lawfully in the UK. Not sure they would be demanding fingerprints if they were minded to reject her application but don't quote me on that one! My sister in law is still waiting for her naturalisation to be processed so I have used that line to reduce her worrying!

[durhamboy]

Thanks 7by7 and Bob. I got her to supply the Home Office with details of her home owned outright, employment, inheritance and current cash funds. I hope this is what they are looking for and shows that she has established a life in the UK post her husband's death and she is not likely to be a burden on the state.

[bobrussell]

It is helpful but not essential to show she has an established life in the UK. Whilst it is compassionate leave and there may be some discretion to it, there is a set expectation that a widow is to be granted ILR.

She does not need to explain her financial circumstances and certainly does not need to demonstrate that she is or is not a burden on the state. If she is happy to do so then it cannot do any harm! The information supplied sounds appropriate.

Any issues then go to your MP without delay!

[Basil B]

Thanks for that. It does seem a bit surprising that FLRs are not stamped into passports. It could cause confusion e.g. say she went on holiday somewhere there is nothing in her passport to show at check-in when she flies back that she has a valid visa for the UK. So she would have to show her BRP but does every country understand the BRP? And what if she lost or forgot it?

Presume for the same reason I no longer have to have a valid tax disc attached to my vans windscreen... it is all there on their computers.

[durhamboy]

Basil - I'm not sure it is all there on their computers. A few months ago there was an Indonesian man with ILR (wife and kids in the UK). He lost his passport in Indonesia and couldn't get back to the UK for about 6 months because no one knew if he was telling the truth or not. He was in fact telling the truth.

Also, if things are so "joined up" then why on earth do people have to get (and pay for) another BRP for ILR when they have already got one at the FLR stage? Surely UKVI have all the details - photo, fingerprints etc. so why can't they just issue an amended one?

[7by7]

Biometrics are taken at each application stage, initial visa, FLR and ILR.

One of the reasons for taking them again at FLR and ILR is to check it's the same person each time.

The same reason why biometrics are taken every time someone applies for a visit visa, no matter how many they may have had before..

[durhamboy]

So they are not "joined up". Unless things have changed recently, when we Brits renew our passports we do not have to attend for a biometrics session. Why can't UKVI have a system that stores people's data so they don't have to be put to this additional expense and hassle?

[bobrussell]

So they are not "joined up". Unless things have changed recently, when we Brits renew our passports we do not have to attend for a biometrics session. Why can't UKVI have a system that stores people's data so they don't have to be put to this additional expense and hassle?

Because they can!

I cannot see any sense in re-fingerprinting because any new visa or leave will only be valid for the person with the original fingerprints! In this case the new permit would state ILR rather than FLR but would have a slightly updated photo!

Sister-in-law had to attend but (hopefully) will not get a biometric permit because she will become British!!

I would hope the present system is more reliable than the rubbishy ones that preceded it. Record keeping was not one of the Home Office's better skills as the poor Indonesian chap found out.

Hopefully the lady in question will not have to wait too long for an answer!

[7by7]

So they are not "joined up". Unless things have changed recently, when we Brits renew our passports we do not have to attend for a biometrics session.

Under the Identity Cards Act 2006, Labour planned to make British passports fully biometric and link them to a national biometric identity card.

After the 2010 election the coalition abandoned that 'to reverse the substantial erosion of civil liberties under the Labour Government and roll back state intrusion.'(source)

Many countries do have biometric passports. Thailand, for example; renew a Thai passport in the UK and you have to go to the RTE in Kensington to have your biometrics taken (may be possible to do this at a Thai consulate, I don't know as London is closest to us so wife and daughter would go there anyway).

Why can't UKVI have a system that stores people's data so they don't have to be put to this additional expense and hassle?

UKVI do have a system which stores people's data! One of the reasons for having biometrics taken with each application is, as already said, a check that it is the same person as before. A measure against fraud.

BRPs for time limited leave, such as FLR, are valid for the length of leave granted. The BRP issued when one is granted ILR is valid for 10 years, and will need to be renewed at the end of that period. Unless one naturalises as British in which case the BRP is no longer required.

[Richard W]

The BRP issued when one is granted ILR is valid for 10 years, and will need to be renewed at the end of that period.

Or can be extended 'free' up to the end of the ten year period. There's recently been a problem with BRPs not being up to the new EU standard when they should have been, so the expiry date of new cards for ILR and NTL was frozen until compliant cards could be manufactured.

Unless one naturalises as British in which case the BRP is no longer required.

Do you have a reference for this, or are you assuming that the law is not an ass?

[7by7]

I only have anecdotal evidence from someone who lost their BRP after they had been naturalised.

He was told by UKVI that he should report the loss, as he did, but that he did not need to apply for a replacement as he was now a British citizen.

[bobrussell]

Once someone is naturalised as a British citizen their biometric information is deleted.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/changes-to-biometric-collection-categories

there is no biometric card for a British citizen. Previous ones can be shredded or kept as a momento!

As a British citizen you are issued with a certificate of citizenship which is proof of status until such time as you choose to get a passport. If this is lost or stolen the Police should be informed.

https://www.gov.uk/get-replacement-citizenship-certificate

Edited November 27, 2015 by bobrussell

[Richard W]

Once someone is naturalised as a British citizen their biometric information is deleted.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/changes-to-biometric-collection-categories

there is no biometric card for a British citizen.

I agree it seems daft. However, I couldn't find an exemption from the requirement to apply for a renewal that would apply if there were no point in renewing one. Failure to apply for a renewal is an offence under the regulations.

[wooloomooloo]

That's some serious far out and left field stuff, Richard. The mind boggles.

[bobrussell]

A biometric card has a set life (10 yrs maximum) and needs renewal. A British citizen cannot be compelled to renew such a document therefore issuing one would be pointless and probably discriminatory. The citizenship certificate lasts for life (and into future generations!) and replaces everything visa related!

[Richard W]

A British citizen cannot be compelled to renew such a document therefore issuing one would be pointless and probably discriminatory.

A resident non-citizen with ILR who is unable to supply fresh biometric data is nevertheless required to apply for renewal of the BRP. The renewal would ultimately be refused, but the law would have been satisfied, and indefinite leave would not be withdrawn. The applicant would simply be left with no evidence that they held ILR.

The requirement as applicable to those whose leave will not be renewed makes about as much sense as the old, unenforced law that required London cabbies to keep a bale of hay in their cabs. The only point in applying the law would be to raise revenue in fines. A simpler revenue-raising technique along those lines would be to fine all those licensed drivers who haven't tried to renew their expired photocard licences. That hasn't been done. Likewise, I don't think there's any rule letting Samran off despite the fact that as a non-resident, he is not eligible to have his photocard license renewed.

[7by7]

According to the London Vintage Taxi Association, who should know

There are a number of myths and legends that surround the London cab and its cabmen and many of them are nothing but bunkum. For instance, it has never been law for a motor cabman to carry a bale of hay in his cab. In fact, it was never law for a horse cabman to carry one, although he was required to carry sufficient hard food (e. g. oats) for his horse’s midday feed.

Many other sources confirm that this is an urban myth.

Not renewing your photo card driving licence when it expires is an offense. From the DVLA

Motorists must renew their photocard licence when it expires. If they fail to renew their licence and supply a photo that is a recent and true likeness, they will be breaking the law and may have to pay a fine of up to £1,000.

Those who are unable to give their fingerprints will still be able to apply for and receive a permit and so prove whenever necessary their immigration status in the UK; from the guidance

What if I have no fingers or hands?

If you are physically unable to provide fingerprints we will take a photograph of the facial image and record on the database the fact that you are physically unable to provide fingerprints.

You will not be able to use the biometric enrolment service at a post office branch.

But, as Bob has shown earlier, although applicants for naturalisation do have their biometrics taken (to confirm they are the same person as previous visa and LTR applications) once they have attended their citizenship ceremony and so received their certificate of naturalisation their biometric record will be destroyed.

Once naturalised ILR is redundant and all the conditions associated with being an ILR holder no longer apply; one is now a British citizen with all the rights every other British citizen has.

However, Richard, I look forward to your report in approx. ten years time of the results of your partner's attempts to renew their BRP despite being a British citizen.