Dual-pricing in Thailand: Is it time to do away with the ‘farang tax’?

[elviajero]

Last year I visited a national park, in our party was a Thai born girl, of Thai parents. She had been adopted as a baby by a Swedish couple, and afterwards had spent her entire life in Sweden, speaking only Swedish and English and only having a Swedish passport. However she did of course look Thai and therefore was only charged the Thai price, while I of course look non Thai and was expected to pay 10 X more for my admission. I just walked away after my Thai wife had told the attendant what she thought of this racial discrimination.

Isn't a person born of Thai parents a Thai and, therefore, deserving of the Thai price?

I don't see how either you or the Thai/Swede were discriminated against as you were both being asked to pay the correct rate.

Not when that person had never been registered as a Thai,including never having a Thai birth certificate.

I'm no expert on the subject, but I believe she is automatically Thai by birthright. And unless she has renounced her citizenship she is still Thai.

[nontabury]

Last year I visited a national park, in our party was a Thai born girl, of Thai parents. She had been adopted as a baby by a Swedish couple, and afterwards had spent her entire life in Sweden, speaking only Swedish and English and only having a Swedish passport. However she did of course look Thai and therefore was only charged the Thai price, while I of course look non Thai and was expected to pay 10 X more for my admission. I just walked away after my Thai wife had told the attendant what she thought of this racial discrimination.

Isn't a person born of Thai parents a Thai and, therefore, deserving of the Thai price?

I don't see how either you or the Thai/Swede were discriminated against as you were both being asked to pay the correct rate.

Not when that person had never been registered as a Thai,including never having a Thai birth certificate.

How was this baby born in Thailand adopted and moved to Sweden without her birth being registered and being legally adopted?

She told me that she thought she was illegitimate, on that trip she had visited her natural mother, who told her that she had given her to the Swedish couple when she was only 8 days old. The Swedish couple had arranged for the natural mother to sign some papers agreeing to give them the baby ( after a payment), at no time had she been registered with the Thai authorities. How she was moved to Sweden she never told me,maybe she din't know. This being Thailand we can only guess.

[metisdead]

More posts have been removed:

9) You will not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling. Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

[elviajero]

Not when that person had never been registered as a Thai,including never having a Thai birth certificate.

How was this baby born in Thailand adopted and moved to Sweden without her birth being registered and being legally adopted?

She told me that she thought she was illegitimate, on that trip she had visited her natural mother, who told her that she had given her to the Swedish couple when she was only 8 days old. The Swedish couple had arranged for the natural mother to sign some papers agreeing to give them the baby ( after a payment), at no time had she been registered with the Thai authorities. How she was moved to Sweden she never told me,maybe she din't know. This being Thailand we can only guess.

Well if she is in contact with her birth mother it should be an easy process to get registered, a thai ID and passport if she wants it. She is Thai it's just a case of formalising it.

Not sure how the questionable adoption would go down if the authorities of either country found out!

[bermannor]

Dual pricing is foremost a legal business model and tourist numbers show, it's widely accepted.

[nontabury]

Not when that person had never been registered as a Thai,including never having a Thai birth certificate.

How was this baby born in Thailand adopted and moved to Sweden without her birth being registered and being legally adopted?

She told me that she thought she was illegitimate, on that trip she had visited her natural mother, who told her that she had given her to the Swedish couple when she was only 8 days old. The Swedish couple had arranged for the natural mother to sign some papers agreeing to give them the baby ( after a payment), at no time had she been registered with the Thai authorities. How she was moved to Sweden she never told me,maybe she din't know. This being Thailand we can only guess.

Well if she is in contact with her birth mother it should be an easy process to get registered, a thai ID and passport if she wants it. She is Thai it's just a case of formalising it.

Not sure how the questionable adoption would go down if the authorities of either country found out!

Perhaps what you say is correct. But to go back to the OP question, this is one of many examples of racial discrimination that I and other Farangs have come across while in Thailand, backed up in some instances by our Thai wives/GF, who as you will know, like most Thais they are very reluctant to criticise their own country, unlike us Farangs.

[bermannor]

Facts
Tourist numbers have grown from 336,000 foreign visitors in 1967[4] to over 26 million international guests visiting Thailand in 2013.
In 2013, Thailand was the 10th "top tourist destination" in the world tourism rankings with 26.5 million international arrivals.
In 2014, 59% of visitors to Thailand came from East Asia, that is, the nine ASEAN nations plus China, Hong Kong, Japan, Korea, and Taiwan. The largest numbers of Western tourists came from Russia (6.5%), the UK (3.7%), Australia (3.4%), and the US (3.1%
During the first half of 2015, Chinese arrivals rose by 111% to 4 million,
The average Chinese tourist spends 5,500 baht (US$160) per day—more than the average European visitor.
Around 55% of Thailand's tourists are return visitors.
No. visitors of Khao Yai National Park : 828,571
Last Update : 2 Sep 2015

ERGO:
soon, if not already, no Thai will be interested in a white's opinion or action. Like it or not, you will be a threatened with extinction species' in this country.

[bermannor]

Sorry about underlining. The post is not so important to underline. My smartphone drives me crazy.

[KamalaRider]

So if I were to think black people were an inferior race.

But not know or mix with any black people, I could claim not to be a racist, cos I didn't treat them badly?

No. You are a racist if you believe black people are inferior.

Does that make you superior then?

I don't believe black people are inferior so no.

I am, however, far superior to people like you that pose idiotic questions!

That was a serious unnecessary comment to make, maybe you should cool down before you write back and not get personally insulted.

I sometimes are baffled how some people can get away with insults and inflammatory comments whilst others gets moderated with the smallest hint of smirk?

Please remember, if we all are westerners, we sit in the same boat and regardless what opinion you have on this subject, it's ALWAYS the person feeling, YES, feeling discriminated that has the divine right to feel that, REGARDLESS what others feel different.

Would any of you ​bashers of people like me, crash down on a rape victim or a person victimized by cheaters and scammers.

Truth to be told, YOU WOULD and that makes you into bullies or perpetrators to the same crime, injustice as the ones we 'victims' try to tell you about.

Don't be fools and make this into a laughable matter as it isn't, my family is victimized by this bully 'tax', not just me.

If you want me to swallow this crap and hold my tongue, what alternate motive do you have for this?

And please refrain from telling me that rape victims isn't applicable in this case, it IS and do you know why, it's about the feeling how you are treated, not the severity of the crime or injustice.

Some people laugh and have fun with my feelings, try to do that in my face and I will show you my personal reaction and possibly you would take me seriously.

Nothing violent but I would REALLY show you what I feel about it with my FEELINGS and my posture, so please tell it to my face I have idiotic questions or something I something idiotic, only bullies would do that, and personally, I had enough with bullies.

I have personal integrity and won't accept being treated like a fool that accept all b-t thrown at me, my family is also on my side in this and if you want to insult my wife further, I suggest you think twice as you don't want to meet an angry (read furious) Thai woman. It's 'joke' as I'm very sure you won't.

I can't react much as I'm a farrang in this country and I try to behave as good as I can in this country of S. and not pose any threat to anyone, farrang or Thai, so I only have my words or writing to express myself,

I've had it with all western dogooders (the ones that believe that paying a higher price in parks etc. will benefit the people) and also Thai people who do their best to keep everything in status quo.

The only thing you prove is that you are ignorant of all of us that feel discriminated treated by the Thai government and don't care about the rest of the Thai population that doesn't like to treat farrang badly because of some making A LOT of money discriminating us.

Edited October 12, 2015 by KamalaRider

[bermannor]

all what is produced here, is a storm in the tea cup.

[KamalaRider]

Facts

Tourist numbers have grown from 336,000 foreign visitors in 1967[4] to over 26 million international guests visiting Thailand in 2013.

In 2013, Thailand was the 10th "top tourist destination" in the world tourism rankings with 26.5 million international arrivals.

In 2014, 59% of visitors to Thailand came from East Asia, that is, the nine ASEAN nations plus China, Hong Kong, Japan, Korea, and Taiwan. The largest numbers of Western tourists came from Russia (6.5%), the UK (3.7%), Australia (3.4%), and the US (3.1%

During the first half of 2015, Chinese arrivals rose by 111% to 4 million,

The average Chinese tourist spends 5,500 baht (US$160) per day—more than the average European visitor.

Around 55% of Thailand's tourists are return visitors.

No. visitors of Khao Yai National Park : 828,571

Last Update : 2 Sep 2015

ERGO:

soon, if not already, no Thai will be interested in a white's opinion or action. Like it or not, you will be a threatened with extinction species' in this country.

Sorry that's b-s, the number you have about how much Chinese spend in Thailand is taken from numbers of tourists spending in Australia.

Stop trying to convince us with Thai authorities numbers, please read my former post about what you should doubt.

[KamalaRider]

And here I thought there were 10 Asean countries, ahh, I see, you excluded Thai tourists as they are the ones keeping the tourist hike up with 10% when it comes to hotel occupancy. Good show.

Edited October 12, 2015 by KamalaRider

[KamalaRider]

Facts

Tourist numbers have grown from 336,000 foreign visitors in 1967[4] to over 26 million international guests visiting Thailand in 2013.

In 2013, Thailand was the 10th "top tourist destination" in the world tourism rankings with 26.5 million international arrivals.

In 2014, 59% of visitors to Thailand came from East Asia, that is, the nine ASEAN nations plus China, Hong Kong, Japan, Korea, and Taiwan. The largest numbers of Western tourists came from Russia (6.5%), the UK (3.7%), Australia (3.4%), and the US (3.1%

During the first half of 2015, Chinese arrivals rose by 111% to 4 million,

The average Chinese tourist spends 5,500 baht (US$160) per day—more than the average European visitor.

Around 55% of Thailand's tourists are return visitors.

No. visitors of Khao Yai National Park : 828,571

Last Update : 2 Sep 2015

ERGO:

soon, if not already, no Thai will be interested in a white's opinion or action. Like it or not, you will be a threatened with extinction species' in this country.

Sorry that's b-s, the number you have about how much Chinese spend in Thailand is taken from numbers of tourists spending in Australia.

Stop trying to convince us with Thai authorities numbers, please read my former post about what you should doubt.

Do you also know that Chinese people are prune to follow the whim or their heart, if they would feel they don't like Thailand, they never visit again, in their life time and they would encourage their whole family and other people they know not to visit.

But you are right on one point, there are a lot of them, so it will take some time for the flood of Chinese to stop coming, but you are sadly mistaken if you believe they spend A LOT of money her.

I will tell you as you seem not to understand the ways of a Chinese.

They buy a whole package in China, all inclusive, the tours and whatnot.

The Chinese send over their own people, minimizing the profit for Thai people, as tour guides, it's already Chinese hotels as they have bought a lot of them from Thai's and farrangs, buses transporting Chinese people are also Chinese.

Food venues they visit are Chinese, temples they visit are Chinese, the list goes on.

If you are really that naive to believe that the Chinese travel companies in China sends over more than the exact cost for their sold travels, tours, hotels and attractions, you need to get a serious reality check done.

The Chinese are far better to do business that benefits themselves that Thai ever was, you are ruled and owned by the Chinese, only a small, VERY small percentage benefits from the Chinese tourist.

[bermannor]

KamalaRider, please proof that numbers are for Australia.

My source was Wikipedia, your source please.

[KamalaRider]

KamalaRider, please proof that numbers are for Australia.

My source was Wikipedia, your source please.

My source was BBC for Australia tourism and they have Chinese quality tourists compared.

Check BBS's documentary about Chinese tourists.

Edited October 12, 2015 by KamalaRider

[KamalaRider]

KamalaRider, please proof that numbers are for Australia.

My source was Wikipedia, your source please.

I shouldn't post on the same post again, but this needs to be clarified, Wikipedia is what people contribute with, it's NOT the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Stop refering to publicly edited web sites or Company web sites with a biased view, please, that only makes you look bad.

Edited October 12, 2015 by KamalaRider

[bermannor]

I don't want to convince anybody. I try to find facts, and it's up yo the reader to determine if they should recheck, ignore or simply put up his/her opinion.

But I try to avoid statement which I can't proof.

Simply to tell how more than 1 billion Chinese think and what they do is no qualification for me and falls in the categorie of story teller.

[bermannor]

KamalaRider, your statement, that Wikipedia's numbers, I quoted, are from Australia, must have a source. So please, your source, I want to learn and expand my knowledge.

[KamalaRider]

I don't want to convince anybody. I try to find facts, and it's up yo the reader to determine if they should recheck, ignore or simply put up his/her opinion.

But I try to avoid statement which I can't proof.

Simply to tell how more than 1 billion Chinese think and what they do is no qualification for me and falls in the categorie of story teller.

You don't even know there are +1.4 billion Chinese, excluding the rest of Chinese living in other countries like the US, UK and others.

Simply put, the Chinese don't think like a westerner, their culture would never allow that and if you never had anything to do with the Chinese, I do have more leverage than you in this matter.

What you think you know isn't important as you don't seem to know much about them.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

I spend a bit of time on the ground in Thailand, so get chance to see the kind of tourists who were being bussed in on a daily basis.

A thought that often came to mind was the, shall we say, demographic of the Chinese tourist being delivered to prop up the high season.

The thought that often came to mind was that the people being led, simply could not afford to visit Thailand, especially during high season. They were wearing the clothes of peasants. This is not meant as an insult. Normally people who go on holiday put their best feet forward. There people looked like they were pulled directly from a rural village or a local market stall and made to come on a tour to fill out the numbers.

The is no doubt that there are Chinese tourist that can visit and spend freely in Thailand. But these were not them.

The tourists that visit the UK and Australia are likely a different animal. Thailand can claim the numbers if they want, but all they are really achieving is the destruction of their environment for short term gain.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Jiu-Jitsu

[Liquorice]

Jiu-Jitsu, you remember, you wanted to proof with your chart tourist numbers decreases. I still must laugh about a 15 month chart during political unrest, rainy season etc..

I think I wrote already, a M5 (mah ha) school kid would have failed with it to proof tourism dcrease.

Don't forget, all is about dual pricing how Thai government shoots itself in the foot with it.

I just showed, tourist decrease is wishful thinking by all those who are against dual pricing.

You can remember?

You only need to Google 'Thai Tourism' to find many links to Thai Newspapers and the Thai Tourist Board that state since 2013 Tourist numbers have been in decline.

Every Friday evening we are subject to reports on the state of the economy by Gen Prayuth on Thai National television.

Even he admits tourist numbers are still falling.

Your argument falls flat on it's face before you reach the first hurdle.

Now I suggest you get back on topic about the dual pricing, rather than arguing about Tourist numbers, or the Mods should close this thread.

[impulse]

On the list of things that affect tourist numbers (and more importantly, tourist spending) in Thailand, I suspect that being asked to pay $6 instead of $0.60 to get into an attraction- rates right up there with the planetary alignment of Jupiter and Mars.

[phuketruski]

poorer people payless , this is fair.

[vogie]

poorer people payless , this is fair.

You make a good point, in the UK rich people pay more tax so maybe that could be classed as dual pricing/taxing.

[Gringogazzer]

poorer people payless , this is fair.

You make a good point, in the UK rich people pay more tax so maybe that could be classed as dual pricing/taxing.

The rich in the UK pay less tax.

The UK is a reckonized tax haven by the IMF.

It's been cornering the market since the 60's.

[vogie]

poorer people payless , this is fair.

You make a good point, in the UK rich people pay more tax so maybe that could be classed as dual pricing/taxing.

The rich in the UK pay less tax.

The UK is a reckonized tax haven by the IMF.

It's been cornering the market since the 60's.

I stand dejected.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

On the list of things that affect tourist numbers (and more importantly, tourist spending) in Thailand, I suspect that being asked to pay $6 instead of $0.60 to get into an attraction- rates right up there with the planetary alignment of Jupiter and Mars.

You are right in that these things might not matter to the first time tourist. The problem is that it leaves a nasty taste in the mouth of the repeat tourist. Just like when they realise that the gem they bought cannot be resold for a profit or when they realise that the JetSki was already damaged....

They tell their friends who are then also discouraged.

Thailand used to have an awful reputation in the west, for planting drugs and prostitution, but it was the backpackers who convinced others(including their disapproving parents) that it was a paradise. Mass tourism followed. Unfortunately, the greedy scammers and the corrupt also thrived and now they have made a mess of it.

Their reputation is in tatters again. Corrupt to the core.

Those pot bellied tourists contributed substantially to Thailand. The Thais don't appear as enamoured with the Chinese....

[metisdead]

Off topic bickering posts have been removed, this topic is not about numbers of tourists from other countries.

9) You will not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling. Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

[bim]

For all those offended farrang the best policy is put the higher price on all attractions and on production of a Thai ID card you get a 90% discount. Same outcome. Its not like we dont have the money. Of course the choice is just dont visit them. No one is twisting your arm. Wish they did the same in the UK where our tax paid for Windsor Palace and the like.

[nontabury]

poorer people payless , this is fair.

Welcome to TV. In case you are also new to Thailand can I acquaint you with some information. While most Thais are to different degrees less prosperous than Farangs here in Thailand. Roughly about 10% of Thais have far more money than the vast majority of Farangs, yet they gain access to these so called attractions at upwards to 10% less than all the Farangs.