speedtripler Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 poor Ross. I guess he is still in New York in his cell waiting for his second trial.? I think he is still in prison and last I read he got a ridiculous 20 or 25 years but hopefully there is some grounds for leniency and a reduction of years if the appeal won't get him out... But I guess if he was found not guilty the govt would have to pay him compensation for time in prison + return all his bitcoins at the value they were when seized?... which is an astronomical amount of money so I doubt a USA judgement will go his way.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrummyJuggler Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 So when a country like Greece adopted currency controls to stop capital outflow, was bitcoin also controlled? Previous posters have said you can move very large sums across borders at a moments notice with no control by governments whatsoever. If a government is adamant about stopping wealth from leaving the country it would also restrict bitcoin transactions or that would be a large hole in the net? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIPinthailand Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 governments or federal banks can not control bitcoin. they don't own it, because everybody own the block chain. you or I can install it on a pc and become a miner. by doing so you control the transactions in the chain (and you make free bitcoin as reward ) , if you don't, it doesn't matter, millions of processor are doing the job. if a government want shut down the bitcoin protocol they can by using a super computer that will control more than 50 percent of the transaction. until now, no computer has the power for that. there is another way , it s to shut down the www, impossible unless world war 3. to resume, if you don't like bitcoin, get used to it, because bitcoin is going to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaangNoi Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 @fletch I did not mean scam in the way you defined it. There is a place for credit cards but trust me they are making money off of you one way or another. Bitcoin is unable to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaangNoi Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 So when a country like Greece adopted currency controls to stop capital outflow, was bitcoin also controlled? Previous posters have said you can move very large sums across borders at a moments notice with no control by governments whatsoever. If a government is adamant about stopping wealth from leaving the country it would also restrict bitcoin transactions or that would be a large hole in the net? large hole in the net. to shut down bitcoin the most effective way would be to shut down the internet. but even then bitcoin can work. bitcoin really took off when cyprus had its currency controls. russians were buying bitcoin to get euro out of there and back into russia. it moved bitcoin from $12 to $266. @blackcab if you tried to sell that much bitcoin for baht in thailand right at one second there would be a loss. the market is not that deep right now. however if you bought and sold over time there would be little loss. buying that much coin in the usa at one second would also move the market, but not as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletchsmile Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 As a total bitcoin novice I have a question. If someone did buy $10,000,000 of bitcoins in the US, could they actually sell that many bitcoins for Thai baht? Would you make or lose on that deal? If so, how much? How long would it take to buy and sell that many bitcoins? Would that be one large trade or a series of smaller trades? I apologise for all the simplistic questions in advance. Bitcoin would be a poor choice for converting USD 10mn into THB for legitimate business transactions. - For THB/XBT there can be a significant bid-offer spread, eg at the moment rates are 9,343 to 9,592 = over 2 % just on one side. There'd be a bid-offer spread on the USD/XBT side too although I'd expect it to be narrower. So going USD > XBT > THB you'd have 2 lots of spreads and maybe 2% - 3% or more. That's far wider than bank TT rates. OK you may pay say $50 fee on the TT but on 10mn that's peanuts. For small amounts XBT might possibly be more cost effective if considering fees but definitely not on large amounts. That sort of rate you'd also be able to negotiate with your bank https://bitcoin.co.th/en/ - Try and put much more than 100 bitcoins in the calculator and i says N/A. So looks like THB 1mn is the max at the moment I'm looking for quotes. Whether that's an actual max I don't know, but I wouldn't want to be making a transaction like that without a rate estimate rates. - USD 10mn is approx THB 350mn. I really wouldn't have the patience to sit in front of a PC keep inputting small trades to get to that value. Just think how many - USD/XBT as someone said is more liquid than THB/XBT - simple supply and demand and market size. - In normal conditions in a stable market maybe you could escape putting all those transactions through over a period of hours/ days. Bad luck if something happens in the market and the XR rate suddenly moves for whatever reason. Shocks happen. - Bad news also if you're with Mt.Gox or similar and they go down taking your money with them while you're getting your money out - The comparison to Greeks getting out of EUR needs a lot more thought. This helped some people's liquidity and helped them have access to their money maybe, as banks limited them taking money out. On the other hand hundreds of millions of other people using EUR were doing so without restriction. So the impact on EUR currency and liquidity was not massive. There's a natural market for EUR outside Greece and any single country in the eurozone knows other countries use EUR. If Thailand were in dire straits like Greece the situation could well be significantly different. Thailand is the only country that uses THB. So you'd have all those people interested in selling THB and buying XBT, but who would buy THB? - not many. So unlikely to be a great exit route for long, and liquidity would just dry up. Greeks could sell EUR for XBT and move the money in a more liquid XBT/EUR to wherever. THB would be much more illiquid in periods of stress. So maybe small amounts might work. Large amounts you might be lucky if you're patient but likely it wouldn't be cost effective and in a worst case (low probability maybe) stress scenario it could be large losses. Cheers Fletch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIPinthailand Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 you all should buy some bitcoin., even 1 btc. it has been low for over a year and now it's climbing to the moon. you can make 100x more in the next 3 to 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langsuan Man Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 you all should buy some bitcoin., even 1 btc. it has been low for over a year and now it's climbing to the moon. you can make 100x more in the next 3 to 5 years. Well when I know that I am going to the moon I will be sure and buy some Sounds like the spin from a seller to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedtripler Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 you all should buy some bitcoin., even 1 btc. it has been low for over a year and now it's climbing to the moon. you can make 100x more in the next 3 to 5 years. Well when I know that I am going to the moon I will be sure and buy some Sounds like the spin from a seller to me Check the historicals before you write it off... I made very healthy profits in the past selling bitcoins and I have acquired some more in case it does the same again again because demand is still there but the supply very limited... I think previous post of 100x fold is too optimistic for our lifetimes but double or trebling your money is very possible Don't listen to what anyone says on a forum , do your own research anyways and you might see the potential.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaangNoi Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 There is massive potential for bitcoin. Just look at supply and demand, only 12 million bitcoins ever made and if there is world wide demand then it will go way past the moon and onto mars. that being said bitcoin could die tomorrow and be worthless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackcab Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 So if you are based in Bangkok and have a few million baht in capital, how would you make money buying and selling bitcoins? Would doing this be profitable enough compared to just leaving the cash in the bank earning interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaangNoi Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 So if you are based in Bangkok and have a few million baht in capital, how would you make money buying and selling bitcoins? Would doing this be profitable enough compared to just leaving the cash in the bank earning interest? sign up for localbitcoins.com if you want to be a dealer. you can make good money but bitcoin moves fast. it was $2 three years ago. A year ago $1200. And now near $300. Expect crazy swings and if you manage it well you can make bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedtripler Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 for everyone who says bitcoin is "worthless" technology .............some very big players are getting involved according to yesterdays news : https://www.google.co.th/search?q=bitcoin&oq=bitcoin&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i59l3j0l2.3275j0j9&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8#q=bitcoin&tbm=nws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ks45672 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 So if you are based in Bangkok and have a few million baht in capital, how would you make money buying and selling bitcoins? Would doing this be profitable enough compared to just leaving the cash in the bank earning interest? sign up for localbitcoins.com if you want to be a dealer. you can make good money but bitcoin moves fast. it was $2 three years ago. A year ago $1200. And now near $300. Expect crazy swings and if you manage it well you can make bank. Its up about 10% since just yesterday, people are already ordering spacesuits and moonboots on the speculation forum lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaangNoi Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Yeah, he is a site to help see how volatile it is and how far it can go up. https://bitcoinwisdom.com/ Also it is on the cover of the economist right now saying it will change the world. Crazy. http://www.economist.com/printedition/covers/2015-10-29/ap-e-eu-la-me-na-uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ks45672 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 It could very well change the world IF it's possible that Mastercard and visa want to integrate it or they have found someway to use it for their advantage... Possibly not the coins but rather the technologies that run the distributed ledger etc Price is rising anyway so their interest alone is generating positive publicity and if they do pick it up and run with it... The moon would not be enough.... A bitcoin price would go to the mars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaangNoi Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I'm pretty sure this will replace the way visa and mastercard work now. it will even kill of swift and bank wires. bitcoin blockchain tech is just so fast, and safe. records are stored and can be audited. it is not hackable. so much potential with the blockchain even if bitcoin dies, this is the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIPinthailand Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 if you have bought 1000 bitcoins at 1 dollar each, you could have retired in Thailand 7 years later. why are you still working? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ks45672 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 if you have bought 1000 bitcoins at 1 dollar each, you could have retired in Thailand 7 years later. why are you still working? How do you know he works? Maybe he's retired already or only works on projects he enjoys Why does Warren buffet, bill Gates, Mark Cuban, Zuckerberg etc all still work? Anymore silly questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCruncher Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I'm pretty sure this will replace the way visa and mastercard work now. it will even kill of swift and bank wires. bitcoin blockchain tech is just so fast, and safe. records are stored and can be audited. it is not hackable. so much potential with the blockchain even if bitcoin dies, this is the future. Your comment is partly correct. Blockchain tech will probably used in the future for money transfers and many other applications, though bitcoin and most other crypto currencies will most probably die or get banned, because they are used for too many illegal and criminal activities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ks45672 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I'm pretty sure this will replace the way visa and mastercard work now. it will even kill of swift and bank wires. bitcoin blockchain tech is just so fast, and safe. records are stored and can be audited. it is not hackable. so much potential with the blockchain even if bitcoin dies, this is the future. Your comment is partly correct. Blockchain tech will probably used in the future for money transfers and many other applications, though bitcoin and most other crypto currencies will most probably die or get banned, because they are used for too many illegal and criminal activities. The biggest criminal currencys at the moment is the $£.... They are even more untraceable than the likes of bitcoin where every single penny is accounted for in a global public ledger.... Much more accountable than deals done with wads of good ole cash... I think government will regulate crypto currencies into the banking system rather than try to ban them as we move into the future.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaangNoi Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Bitcoin will not be banned. Guess who is having a sale of bitcoins on the 5th? Us Government! It is legal and regulated. The talk about using bitcoin for crime is just silly. Sure it can be used in crime but why would anyone use a traceable system? 2 DEA agents are in jail right now for stealing bitcoin from drug dealers. If the DEA just kept stealing cash and drugs like normal then they would not be in jail. Bitcoin is very bad for most crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCruncher Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Bitcoin will not be banned. Guess who is having a sale of bitcoins on the 5th? Us Government! It is legal and regulated. The talk about using bitcoin for crime is just silly. Sure it can be used in crime but why would anyone use a traceable system? 2 DEA agents are in jail right now for stealing bitcoin from drug dealers. If the DEA just kept stealing cash and drugs like normal then they would not be in jail. Bitcoin is very bad for most crimes. And why has the US government a sale, where did they get the bitcoins from? Let me guess. Confiscated from a criminal organisation called Silk Road? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ks45672 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Bitcoin will not be banned. Guess who is having a sale of bitcoins on the 5th? Us Government! It is legal and regulated. The talk about using bitcoin for crime is just silly. Sure it can be used in crime but why would anyone use a traceable system? 2 DEA agents are in jail right now for stealing bitcoin from drug dealers. If the DEA just kept stealing cash and drugs like normal then they would not be in jail. Bitcoin is very bad for most crimes. And why has the US government a sale, where did they get the bitcoins from? Let me guess. Confiscated from a criminal organisation called Silk Road? Same as auctions for Ferraris, mansions and other luxury stuff that gets confiscated from drug dealers and tax dodgers.... They coins themselves are not the crime, they would have confiscated all his assets no matter what form they were in, gold bars, diamonds, property etc Proceeds of crime can be taken no matter what it might be if they can prove it and unfortunately for ross it looks like they proved it was illegal gains Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaangNoi Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Yeah the US got many things from silk road. They are selling off the high end cars, and bitcoins. But are they selling off the drugs? Nope. Drug illegal, bitcoins legal. Using bitcoin for crime in the USA is just silly. It is all traceable. I don't wish that guy to have life in jail in the USA but he had to know what risk he was taking. He could have gone anywhere. $100,000,000 can buy a lot of protection in some nations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCruncher Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Yeah the US got many things from silk road. They are selling off the high end cars, and bitcoins. But are they selling off the drugs? Nope. Drug illegal, bitcoins legal. Using bitcoin for crime in the USA is just silly. It is all traceable. I don't wish that guy to have life in jail in the USA but he had to know what risk he was taking. He could have gone anywhere. $100,000,000 can buy a lot of protection in some nations. And that is one of the main reasons why bitcoin was so popular that it rose to 1000$, only to drop shortly after Silk road was caught, because many were mistaken that it was untraceable. So when that myth was cleared, many lost their interest in Bitcoin. What other advantages would bitcoin have to offer for the average citizen? Cost reduction? Naah, to send 499.000 Euro to Thailand cost me 48 Euro flat in transfer costs. Value increase? Naah, because it is even more speculative than equities. Value increase because the supply is limited? Naah, because everyone can create a new crypto currency every hour of the day. So name me one reason why Bitcoin would be the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaangNoi Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I'm not really sure where you are getting your information. I was there at the time. When the guy got caught BTC dropped like $50 from $120. This was Sept/Oct 2013 Bitcoin did not go up to $1200 until after this starting in Nov 2013. If anything one could say because he was caught and people saw it was dumb to use it for crime it went way up. However I do not think that was the case. Mt. Gox and their troubles had more to do with it than silk road. "So when that myth was cleared, many lost their interest in Bitcoin." You have it exactly backwards. You pay 10% fee to send fiat? Wow! For bitcoin you pay $.03 for any amount. $.01 to $100,000,000. Bitcoin is speculative, no doubt about it. It is high risk high reward. If you are able and have some extra wealth might be worth it. If you can't afford to lose everything invested into BTC stay away. But BTC was at 50 cents 5 years ago. Many people have made a lot of money and I do not see why this will stop. Look at the current cover of the economist just to see bitcoin is not dead. They claim it will change the world. The economist is not exactly a light weight. Why bitcoin will be the future? Because it removes the need for trust. Right now you need to trust the governments and the banks that they do not take your fiat or demand 25% fee. Look at Cyprus, they raided the accounts. Can't do that with bitcoin. Also speed. You can send millions of dollars of wealth in seconds with bitcoin to anywhere. Can you do this with fiat? China has a lot of money and a lot of capital controls. What can the Chinese govt do to stop people from sending money over seas using bitcoin? nothing at all. Bitcoin(blockchain) might not be for you personally but it absolutely is the way things will be done in 20 years world wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCruncher Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I'm not really sure where you are getting your information. I was there at the time. When the guy got caught BTC dropped like $50 from $120. This was Sept/Oct 2013 Bitcoin did not go up to $1200 until after this starting in Nov 2013. If anything one could say because he was caught and people saw it was dumb to use it for crime it went way up. However I do not think that was the case. Mt. Gox and their troubles had more to do with it than silk road. "So when that myth was cleared, many lost their interest in Bitcoin." You have it exactly backwards. You pay 10% fee to send fiat? Wow! For bitcoin you pay $.03 for any amount. $.01 to $100,000,000. Bitcoin is speculative, no doubt about it. It is high risk high reward. If you are able and have some extra wealth might be worth it. If you can't afford to lose everything invested into BTC stay away. But BTC was at 50 cents 5 years ago. Many people have made a lot of money and I do not see why this will stop. Look at the current cover of the economist just to see bitcoin is not dead. They claim it will change the world. The economist is not exactly a light weight. Why bitcoin will be the future? Because it removes the need for trust. Right now you need to trust the governments and the banks that they do not take your fiat or demand 25% fee. Look at Cyprus, they raided the accounts. Can't do that with bitcoin. Also speed. You can send millions of dollars of wealth in seconds with bitcoin to anywhere. Can you do this with fiat? China has a lot of money and a lot of capital controls. What can the Chinese govt do to stop people from sending money over seas using bitcoin? nothing at all. Bitcoin(blockchain) might not be for you personally but it absolutely is the way things will be done in 20 years world wide. I pay 48 Euro for sending four hundred ninety nine thousand Euro. Sure man y people have made money, especially if they bought at 50 cents, but I'm sure that doesn't include those that bought between 330$ and 1200$. Sure I have to trust the government not to take my money, but those same governments can ban bitcoin in a nano second, and where is your money then? Regarding the Chinese. Isn't bitcoin banned in China? I think I made clear already that I believe blockchain will be the future, but bitcoin isn't blockchain, it is just an application that uses the blockchain tech. You're right that they have invented the blockchain tech, but Napster also invented how we stream media these days, and where are they today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedtripler Posted November 2, 2015 Author Share Posted November 2, 2015 330bucks a piece now so almost 12,000thb each investers are climbing in and the supply halving in 38 weeks cant be bad news i think there is a risk but isnt there is a risk in any investment ? at this stage i think a bigger risk would be to not have at least a few btc in your portfolio along with as many other options as you can afford cash +gold + bitcoin + stocks +shares +bonds etc i personally think the next all time high will smash the last one of $1200 but we shall see ,i wont go all in but il keep a few just in case ......... is there any tax liable in thailand if my $300 bitcoins suddenly hit $5000 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ks45672 Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I'm not really sure where you are getting your information. I was there at the time. When the guy got caught BTC dropped like $50 from $120. This was Sept/Oct 2013 Bitcoin did not go up to $1200 until after this starting in Nov 2013. If anything one could say because he was caught and people saw it was dumb to use it for crime it went way up. However I do not think that was the case. Mt. Gox and their troubles had more to do with it than silk road. "So when that myth was cleared, many lost their interest in Bitcoin." You have it exactly backwards. You pay 10% fee to send fiat? Wow! For bitcoin you pay $.03 for any amount. $.01 to $100,000,000. Bitcoin is speculative, no doubt about it. It is high risk high reward. If you are able and have some extra wealth might be worth it. If you can't afford to lose everything invested into BTC stay away. But BTC was at 50 cents 5 years ago. Many people have made a lot of money and I do not see why this will stop. Look at the current cover of the economist just to see bitcoin is not dead. They claim it will change the world. The economist is not exactly a light weight. Why bitcoin will be the future? Because it removes the need for trust. Right now you need to trust the governments and the banks that they do not take your fiat or demand 25% fee. Look at Cyprus, they raided the accounts. Can't do that with bitcoin. Also speed. You can send millions of dollars of wealth in seconds with bitcoin to anywhere. Can you do this with fiat? China has a lot of money and a lot of capital controls. What can the Chinese govt do to stop people from sending money over seas using bitcoin? nothing at all. Bitcoin(blockchain) might not be for you personally but it absolutely is the way things will be done in 20 years world wide. I pay 48 Euro for sending four hundred ninety nine thousand Euro. Sure man y people have made money, especially if they bought at 50 cents, but I'm sure that doesn't include those that bought between 330$ and 1200$. Sure I have to trust the government not to take my money, but those same governments can ban bitcoin in a nano second, and where is your money then? Regarding the Chinese. Isn't bitcoin banned in China? I think I made clear already that I believe blockchain will be the future, but bitcoin isn't blockchain, it is just an application that uses the blockchain tech. You're right that they have invented the blockchain tech, but Napster also invented how we stream media these days, and where are they today? Bitcoin is alive and well in China, there are several Chinese exchanges trading it but they couldn't enforce a ban even if they wanted to..... Black markets in China are huge and there would be no way to stop anyone travelling around the world with a million dollars worth on a usb keyring, micro sd card, phone or anything else They could also get around the capital control laws by purchasing bitcoins and then cashing them out in Singapore, usa, Germany or Canada The technology is more or less unstoppable as long as people are using it, Venezuela will be one to watch because they're currency is going down the toilet at the moment and the people with money need to move it into something better than their rapidly depreciating bank notes The US marshal is having an auction soon for 37,000 bitcoins and that will bring it into the news again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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