Bitcoins in Thailand

[ChaangNoi]

49 Euro for any transaction seems high to me but that is better. I bet it would still cost someone 49 Euro to send 49 Euro.

Bitcoin is the first blockchain and it has first move adoption. It also is decentralized and has massive massive hashing power. This is what makes it safe and trustless. I'm not saying bitcoin is going to be a good investment but if you have a few buck to play with it not bad to have in your high risk high reward section of your portfolio. If money is tight, I'd not risk it. Bitcoin could die tomorrow.

Bitcoin is as legal as gold is in China. It is traded more in China than anywhere else. It had a billion USD trading day a few days ago. I know that is nothing on forex but not bad for some open source code.

[Gutenberg]

Bitcoin is here to stay, regardless what it's currently worth in USD.

The freedom and power you have with your own wallet and coins in it is for some not understandable. Regardless if it's "manipulated" (which is not, it's just traded) by big players, it is still the currency of the people. Nobody can just come and seize or freeze your wallet if you follow simple steps. You can choose exactly what you are doing with your coins. Bitcoin is like Capitalism's finest baby.

Treat it as a currency, e.g. spend it or high risk / high yield investment.

[Ks45672]

The price is moving very positive recently

It could easily reach a new level

They're seems to be a lot of trade happening in China and stateside too...

Reading the bitcointalk and reddit subforum a lot of people are exited....

[ChaangNoi]

The price is moving very positive recently

It could easily reach a new level

They're seems to be a lot of trade happening in China and stateside too...

Reading the bitcointalk and reddit subforum a lot of people are exited....

China is cracking down on the traditional ways to move money outside of China. They use "underground banks" and voucher cards. Government is cracking down on that, but since Bitcoin is legal in China (and they just approved the last of 3 major exchanges to take fiat wires) people are flocking to Bitcoin.

So since it is legal and semi supported by China people are buying up BTC in China at like $50 more than what it is being sold for in the USA. They are taking a pretty large cut here but they get the money outside of China. The currency and stock market of China is looking sort of crazy so people want out. Bitcoin is just perfect for this.

We could be over $1000 with no effort if this keeps going for a few weeks. Then again, they could stop buying and back down to $200. Anyway I'm not selling mine until we hit $5,000 or $0

[TheCruncher]

So OK.

Let's say I have 400.000 Euro sitting in a European bank, while I am in Thailand.

How do I get those Euros in Thailand using Bitcoins, without me travelling to Europe, and what will be my cost assuming that the Bitcoin rate doesn't change.

[Gutenberg]

So OK.

Let's say I have 400.000 Euro sitting in a European bank, while I am in Thailand.

How do I get those Euros in Thailand using Bitcoins, without me travelling to Europe, and what will be my cost assuming that the Bitcoin rate doesn't change.

Open a bitcoin wallet and buy bitcoins.

Either you can buy directly from an exchange, e.g. https://kraken.com or https://bitstamp.net or from an exchanger, e.g. https://anycoindirect.eu - they are all trustworthy. At kraken and bistamp you need to be verified first before you can deposit via wire transfer.

The best is to use an exchange so you can trade instead of just holding.

[Gutenberg]

So OK.

Let's say I have 400.000 Euro sitting in a European bank, while I am in Thailand.

How do I get those Euros in Thailand using Bitcoins, without me travelling to Europe, and what will be my cost assuming that the Bitcoin rate doesn't change.

Ah, you wanted to know how to transfer the best way. Example:

Deposit 400.000 EUR at https://kraken.com. Fees around 50 EUR incl. wire. Use a bank account in Thailand to cashout or a debit card which is loadable by bitcoins or use https://localbitcoins.com or give https://bitcoin.co.th a try

[TheCruncher]

So OK.

Let's say I have 400.000 Euro sitting in a European bank, while I am in Thailand.

How do I get those Euros in Thailand using Bitcoins, without me travelling to Europe, and what will be my cost assuming that the Bitcoin rate doesn't change.

Ah, you wanted to know how to transfer the best way. Example:

Deposit 400.000 EUR at https://kraken.com. Fees around 50 EUR incl. wire. Use a bank account in Thailand to cashout or a debit card which is loadable by bitcoins or use https://localbitcoins.com or give https://bitcoin.co.th a try

Thanks for the explanation, but the way I read it now is that it would cost me more than when I just transfer the regular way, which is 48 Euro .

I understood from reading these bitcoin threads that it would be far cheaper.

Is there another way to make the deposit cheaper? I understand that I can make transfers within Europe without a fee, so why would it cost me 50 Euro to make the deposit?

[blackcab]

If you had bought a couple of days ago and sold today, your 400,000 euro would now be worth 600,000 euro.

Talk about volatile.

[TheCruncher]

If you had bought a couple of days ago and sold today, your 400,000 euro would now be worth 600,000 euro.

Talk about volatile.

Tell that to the people who bought when BTC was 1200$

[Gutenberg]

Thanks for the explanation, but the way I read it now is that it would cost me more than when I just transfer the regular way, which is 48 Euro .

I understood from reading these bitcoin threads that it would be far cheaper.

Is there another way to make the deposit cheaper? I understand that I can make transfers within Europe without a fee, so why would it cost me 50 Euro to make the deposit?

Well, bitcoins are either used as currency or high risk / high yield investment.

Your plan to use bitcoins as an intermediate is a misconception. Why would you do EUR-BTC-THB if you are happy with your EUR-THB transfer? You would never consider doing a EUR-USD-THB.

Other people cannot or are not willing to fill some forms to send more than $20.000 to Thailand or do not have a Thai bank account, or have like the Greeks/Chinese limits on how much they can transfer out of the country or want to have the funds within hours not weeks or do not want a bank account in a scamming bank anymore or like the style or, or, or. Many reasons to use an online currency like bitcoin, if I'd get paid, I could list thousands of reasons why people choose bitcoins.

And another big thing is the "Western Union" abilities of bitcoin - people are overcharged at WU. They would pay nearly nothing if they give somebody cash in there home country to buy bitcoins and the receiver receives cash in the other country, take a look at localbitcoin.com

In short, the use of bitcoin as currency might be not for you, it's like CHF or SGD, it's not for everybody

In regard to this, transferring large amounts via bitcoins is very cheap. 50 EUR is a rough estimate, you probably could pay 100 EUR as fees. Of course you still have exchange rate changes - however you can use them in your favor, e.g. arbitrage.

[TheCruncher]

Thanks for the explanation, but the way I read it now is that it would cost me more than when I just transfer the regular way, which is 48 Euro .

I understood from reading these bitcoin threads that it would be far cheaper.

Is there another way to make the deposit cheaper? I understand that I can make transfers within Europe without a fee, so why would it cost me 50 Euro to make the deposit?

Well, bitcoins are either used as currency or high risk / high yield investment.

Your plan to use bitcoins as an intermediate is a misconception. Why would you do EUR-BTC-THB if you are happy with your EUR-THB transfer?

Other people cannot or are not willing to fill some forms to send more than $20.000 to Thailand or do not have a Thai bank account, or have like the Greeks/Chinese limits on how much they can transfer out of the country or want to have the funds within hours not weeks or do not want a bank account in a scamming bank anymore or like the style or, or, or. Many reasons to use an online currency like bitcoin, if you pay me per hours, I will list thousands of reasons why people choose bitcoins .

In regard to this, transferring large amounts via bitcoins is very cheap. 50 EUR is a rough estimate, you probably could pay 100 EUR as fees. Of course you still have exchange rate changes - however you can use them in your favor, e.g. arbitrage.

The reason I wanted to use Bitcoin for the transfer was this claim by Chaangnoi.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/862119-bitcoins-in-thailand/?p=10028553

For bitcoin you pay $.03 for any amount. $.01 to $100,000,000.

Seems to be incorrect then.

When sending money from my European bank to Thailand, I pay 0.10% commission on the amount, with a ceiling of 48 Euro, and I can of course leave it in a foreign currency account in Thailand until I think the exchange rate is good.

Maximum I can transfer per transaction is 499.999 Euro.

[Gutenberg]

Seems to be incorrect then.

Great, discussing bitcoins with someone who's against it on principle is time consuming. I should have been warned first .

[Ks45672]

Does anyone deal with any reliable exchanges that accept customers residing in thailand?

The account verification maybe an obstacle since my bills etc are coming in Thai language?

I don't want the hassle of btc frozen abroad but some exchanges have solid reputations now unlike days of yore (got scammed) .... I thought about trying the Thai exchange but their rate per coin not great and haven't heard much experiences about their service, are they good? )

[Gutenberg]

Does anyone deal with any reliable exchanges that accept customers residing in thailand?

The account verification maybe an obstacle since my bills etc are coming in Thai language?

They all do business with Thai customers or customers based in Thailand but you will need to find a lawyer to translate your documents into English and "notarize" them.

[TheCruncher]

Seems to be incorrect then.

Great, discussing bitcoins with someone who's against it on principle is time consuming. I should have been warned first .

So you are living in denial then ?

I had a discussion with ChaangNoi earlier in this thread, where he said that to transfer any amount of BTC from Europe to Thailand, would involve a fee of $.03.

Later in the thread you tell me that it most likely will involve fees in the range of $100.

And you are now blaming me for being against BTC because I consider someone was talking bullshit?

[TheCruncher]

Does anyone deal with any reliable exchanges that accept customers residing in thailand?

The account verification maybe an obstacle since my bills etc are coming in Thai language?

I don't want the hassle of btc frozen abroad but some exchanges have solid reputations now unlike days of yore (got scammed) .... I thought about trying the Thai exchange but their rate per coin not great and haven't heard much experiences about their service, are they good? )

Oh, it actually isn't like the fanboys are picturing here, that the exchange rate is same everywhere in the world and that BTC is hassle free and no risk to get scammed?

[VIPinthailand]

it sounds crazy to invest In a digital money that is nothing else than a few 0 and 1 generated by some random computers.

but, does it sounds less crazy to invest in a fiat money printed on thin paper with green ink?

[vaultdweller0013]

The reason I wanted to use Bitcoin for the transfer was this claim by Chaangnoi.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/862119-bitcoins-in-thailand/?p=10028553

For bitcoin you pay $.03 for any amount. $.01 to $100,000,000.

Seems to be incorrect then.

When sending money from my European bank to Thailand, I pay 0.10% commission on the amount, with a ceiling of 48 Euro, and I can of course leave it in a foreign currency account in Thailand until I think the exchange rate is good.

Maximum I can transfer per transaction is 499.999 Euro.

It's correct, just not covering the complete process.

The sender in a bitcoin transaction pays a fee(*) of 0.0001 BTC (approx 3-4 US cents currently) to the bitcoin network (aka bitcoin miners) as an incentive for them to confirm the transaction.

So, if you want to use bitcoin as a mean of currency exchange, there will be two bitcoin transactions: the first from the buyer of the source currency to the person doing the exchange and a second from the person doing the exchange to the seller of the destination currency. To give an example, say Alice wants to convert $1000 from USD to THB. She knows two people, Bob and Carol. Bob wants to sell bitcoins for USD, and Carol wants to buy bitcoins with THB. To do this the transactions that need to take place are (exchange rates approximate):

1. Alice transfers 1000 USD to Bob
2. Bob transfers 3 bitcoins to Alice
3. Alice transfers 3 bitcoins to Carol
4. Carol transfers 35000 THB to Alice

Transactions 1 & 2 can occur in either order, based on who is willing to trust the other party; Bob can send the bitcoins first or Alice can give Bob the 1000 USD first. It is the same for transactions 3&4. However, the bitcoin network (miners) will ensure transaction 3 occurs after 2 as part of the standard protocol.

Transactions 2 & 3 will each have a fee of 0.0001 BTC on top. So, in reality, Bob will be spending 3.0001 BTC for 1000 USD, and Alice will only be transferring 2.9999 BTC to Carol for the 35000 THB. The 0.0001 BTC fee is generally constant regardless of the transaction size, so it can be a very small percentage for large amounts.

Importantly, note that the fees discussed so far only cover the bitcoin transactions, and that there are still two transactions, 1 & 4, that have not been covered. That is where the extra fees can come in. Bob or Alice can charge the other whatever fee they specify for completing transaction 1. It could be a fixed fee or percentage, either in USD or BTC or could show up as a poor exchange rate. The same is relevant for Carol/Alice in transaction 4. If Alice is friends with Bob and Carol, maybe there would be no fees. However, if Alice is using companies to fill the roles of Bob and Carol, then, almost certainly, Alice will end up paying some sort of fee to both. These fees could be small or large.

(*) Technically, the transaction fee of 0.0001 BTC is optional for almost all typical transactions. However, it is very highly recommended, otherwise the bitcoin network (miners) may ignore the transaction for quite a long time. In the future, this fee will necessarily go up in BTC terms. Bitcoin transactions are currently "subsidized" in the sense that the bitcoin network (miners) gets newly created bitcoins for confirming transactions in addition to the transaction fees. Currently, these newly created bitcoins are about 80 times larger than the transaction fees the network gets. However, the reward of new bitcoins decreases over time and once there are 21 million bitcoins, the network will not get this "subsidy" of newly created coins anymore; everything will come from transaction fees. This should happen in about 10 years. So, even if it not an 80x increase, there will need to be an increase in the standard/minimum fee because the bitcoin network (miners) need to pay for their electricity, salaries, internet connection, rent and all their fancy, specialized ASIC hardware that will go obsolete over time.

[TheCruncher]

The reason I wanted to use Bitcoin for the transfer was this claim by Chaangnoi.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/862119-bitcoins-in-thailand/?p=10028553

For bitcoin you pay $.03 for any amount. $.01 to $100,000,000.

Seems to be incorrect then.

When sending money from my European bank to Thailand, I pay 0.10% commission on the amount, with a ceiling of 48 Euro, and I can of course leave it in a foreign currency account in Thailand until I think the exchange rate is good.

Maximum I can transfer per transaction is 499.999 Euro.

It's correct, just not covering the complete process.

The sender in a bitcoin transaction pays a fee(*) of 0.0001 BTC (approx 3-4 US cents currently) to the bitcoin network (aka bitcoin miners) as an incentive for them to confirm the transaction.

So, if you want to use bitcoin as a mean of currency exchange, there will be two bitcoin transactions: the first from the buyer of the source currency to the person doing the exchange and a second from the person doing the exchange to the seller of the destination currency. To give an example, say Alice wants to convert $1000 from USD to THB. She knows two people, Bob and Carol. Bob wants to sell bitcoins for USD, and Carol wants to buy bitcoins with THB. To do this the transactions that need to take place are (exchange rates approximate):

1. Alice transfers 1000 USD to Bob
2. Bob transfers 3 bitcoins to Alice
3. Alice transfers 3 bitcoins to Carol
4. Carol transfers 35000 THB to Alice

Transactions 1 & 2 can occur in either order, based on who is willing to trust the other party; Bob can send the bitcoins first or Alice can give Bob the 1000 USD first. It is the same for transactions 3&4. However, the bitcoin network (miners) will ensure transaction 3 occurs after 2 as part of the standard protocol.

Transactions 2 & 3 will each have a fee of 0.0001 BTC on top. So, in reality, Bob will be spending 3.0001 BTC for 1000 USD, and Alice will only be transferring 2.9999 BTC to Carol for the 35000 THB. The 0.0001 BTC fee is generally constant regardless of the transaction size, so it can be a very small percentage for large amounts.

Importantly, note that the fees discussed so far only cover the bitcoin transactions, and that there are still two transactions, 1 & 4, that have not been covered. That is where the extra fees can come in. Bob or Alice can charge the other whatever fee they specify for completing transaction 1. It could be a fixed fee or percentage, either in USD or BTC or could show up as a poor exchange rate. The same is relevant for Carol/Alice in transaction 4. If Alice is friends with Bob and Carol, maybe there would be no fees. However, if Alice is using companies to fill the roles of Bob and Carol, then, almost certainly, Alice will end up paying some sort of fee to both. These fees could be small or large.

(*) Technically, the transaction fee of 0.0001 BTC is optional for almost all typical transactions. However, it is very highly recommended, otherwise the bitcoin network (miners) may ignore the transaction for quite a long time. In the future, this fee will necessarily go up in BTC terms. Bitcoin transactions are currently "subsidized" in the sense that the bitcoin network (miners) gets newly created bitcoins for confirming transactions in addition to the transaction fees. Currently, these newly created bitcoins are about 80 times larger than the transaction fees the network gets. However, the reward of new bitcoins decreases over time and once there are 21 million bitcoins, the network will not get this "subsidy" of newly created coins anymore; everything will come from transaction fees. This should happen in about 10 years. So, even if it not an 80x increase, there will need to be an increase in the standard/minimum fee because the bitcoin network (miners) need to pay for their electricity, salaries, internet connection, rent and all their fancy, specialized ASIC hardware that will go obsolete over time.

Thank you for this comprehensive explanation, it clarifies a few things to me.

1. Bitcoin is even further off for me than before

2. Other posters in this thread prefer only to tell us half of the story, either because they don't know the full story which i doubt very much, or because they are fanboys.

3. Bitcoin is definitely not what other posters in this thread want us to believe.

[Gutenberg]

So you are living in denial then ?

Later in the thread you tell me that it most likely will involve fees in the range of $100.

And you are now blaming me for being against BTC because I consider someone was talking bullshit?

What denial? I made it easy understandable for you why people are using bitcoins and you made it clear why bitcoins is not for you. There is no reason to discuss bitcoins with you if you "just don't like them". Do you think I or anybody care if you don't like bitcoins?

Besides, for a transfer of 400.000 EUR, I would pay 50 EUR wire transfer to bitcoin exchange - 0,02% to buy bitcoins and cash it out by cash in Thailand for free. That's cheaper than your 48 EUR + 0,10% commission fee. But as stated already above, nobody cares.

Oh, it actually isn't like the fanboys are picturing here, that the exchange rate is same everywhere in the world and that BTC is hassle free and no risk to get scammed?

You clearly do not understand what a currency is.

[Gutenberg]

2. Other posters in this thread prefer only to tell us half of the story, either because they don't know the full story which i doubt very much, or because they are fanboys.

3. Bitcoin is definitely not what other posters in this thread want us to believe.

Ehm,... what? Did you even understand what he wrote? Are you one of these guys they call the "guy surfing the interwebs"?

[TheCruncher]

So you are living in denial then ?

Later in the thread you tell me that it most likely will involve fees in the range of $100.

And you are now blaming me for being against BTC because I consider someone was talking bullshit?

What denial? I made it easy understandable for you why people are using bitcoins and you made it clear why bitcoins is not for you. There is no reason to discuss bitcoins with you if you "just don't like them". Do you think I or anybody care if you don't like bitcoins?

Besides, for a transfer of 400.000 EUR, I would pay 50 EUR wire transfer to bitcoin exchange - 0,02% to buy bitcoins and cash it out by cash in Thailand for free. That's cheaper than your 48 EUR + 0,10% commission fee. But as stated already above, nobody cares.

Oh, it actually isn't like the fanboys are picturing here, that the exchange rate is same everywhere in the world and that BTC is hassle free and no risk to get scammed?

You clearly do not understand what a currency is.

I don't know if it is worth to reply to you anymore, because you clearly are twisting mine and your own words, only to make your drivel believable.

First of all I don't pay 48 Euro + 0.10%. I clearly said I pay 0.10% with a ceiling of 48 Euro. So 48 Euro is the MAXIMUM I pay for any transfer up to 499.999 Euro.

Now learn to use a calculator. 0.02% of 400.000 Euro is 80 Euro, not 50 Euro as you claim, and to cash it out is not guaranteed free, according to vaultdweller0013's post, as you want to make us believe now.

So why now retracting from your earlier statement that it would cost in line of 100$. Oh yeah I understand, trying to fool a bit more people.

Oh and I clearly understand what a currency is. The mid-market rate Euro - Thai Baht is the same all over the world at the same point in time, and isn't made up by the exchange service.

Over and out. Care to tell us what your previous username was?

[Gutenberg]

only to make your drivel believable.

Can you elaborate what are you writing about? Did somebody lurk you into buying a currency at $1000 and you need to be on a crusade against that currency now?

[ChaangNoi]

@TheCruncher You miss understand my point about the cost of sending money from one place to the other. You question of how much will it cost to turn fiat into bitcoin and then back to fiat is not what I'm talking about. Good money chases out bad. People will sooner or later not use fiat because crypto is better. Once you move from fiat into crypto you are set.

We are in the early stages and it is true you can not buy everything you need with crypto however there is a lot you can. Including brand new jeeps and lambos. There absolutely is place for crypto but sure, it is not at a 7-11 or your local bar (right now).

I was saying by it to HODL if you have some extra money to invest. I'm not saying you should buy it just to send fiat from Europe to Thailand (unless it is money you can't get into the banking system).

I like cash, I like gold. I like land, and I like crypto. I have and use them all but for different things.

[Berkshire]

If ISIS and other terrorist groups are using Bitcoin to fund criminal activities, I would imagine governments are going to seriously crackdown on it.

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2015/11/25/isis-parks-its-cash-in-bitcoin-experts-say.html?intcmp=hpbt2

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/isis-using-bit-coin-hide/2015/11/25/id/703620/

http://www.businessinsider.com/isis-supporter-outlines-how-to-support-terror-group-with-bitcoin-2014-7

[Gutenberg]

If ISIS and other terrorist groups are using Bitcoin to fund criminal activities, I would imagine governments are going to seriously crackdown on it.

It is just a buzzl, just some idiot stating that they have found ISIS wallet. It is not true, just a statement.

How they can fund anything with bitcoins? Are they running mining operations in Raqqah? Never. How do they get bitcoins then? They exchange it for USD? Or they play some bitcoin casino?

It is a joke, ISIS never using and never will use bitcoins. They send oil to Turkey and get $ cash as payment.

Bitcoins considered even low money laundering risks:

http://www.coindesk.com/uk-treasury-digital-currencies-low-money-laundering-risk/

[Ks45672]

It is pretty well known by intelligence agency's that they are funded at least a million $ a day selling oil

You would need a lot of identification and bank accounts to "spend" 10k bitcoin and as far as I know the they are using Toyota vehicles which were bought with cash, and a lot of stolen weapons from the Syrian army

None of these things were bought by bitcoin and I doubt there are any bitcoin exchanges in that country, even if they're were, all users would be subject to scrutiny.....

Much easier to just use their suitcases of cash in that part of the world and leave no trace of transactions

[ChaangNoi]

ISIS using BTC, lol. People trust the media? Thailand is banned in Thailand too right?

[Berkshire]

If ISIS and other terrorist groups are using Bitcoin to fund criminal activities, I would imagine governments are going to seriously crackdown on it.

It is just a buzzl, just some idiot stating that they have found ISIS wallet. It is not true, just a statement.

How they can fund anything with bitcoins? Are they running mining operations in Raqqah? Never. How do they get bitcoins then? They exchange it for USD? Or they play some bitcoin casino?

It is a joke, ISIS never using and never will use bitcoins. They send oil to Turkey and get $ cash as payment.

Bitcoins considered even low money laundering risks:

http://www.coindesk.com/uk-treasury-digital-currencies-low-money-laundering-risk/

Thanks for posting the article. I guess it's just a matter of who we can believe....