Do I need actual divorce papers from U.S.A. to marry Thai lady?

[hawksway]

Out of the frying pan and into the fire!

[barrysworld59]

Sounds like someone's been burned more than once...Sorry to hear that!!

[TKDfella]

I am British and was married in Thailand in 1994 then divorced in Thailand 2 years ago. But before I married in Thailand I had to post my intentions at the (English) local government office after which they gave me an affidavit. Before I could marry in Thailand I had submit the affidavit to the British Embassy in BKK who then issued another one which I had translated into Thai. They didn't require the divorce papers. Having now divorced in Thailand I'm told that to remarry in Thailand I must supply the divorce cert and any supporting paperwork. They also informed me that my new intended will have to be present as her name will be required the supporting paperwork, not for the affidavit. All of that will have to be translated by a government registered Thai translation office for the Thai registry office. As I say that is the British Embassy but one never knows if others require same.

[lopburi3]

Actually we do know - and he already has the required paper from his Embassy.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Some will request you have a translator but it does not have to be official - anyone that can speak Thai/English is normally accepted (reason is any additional details entered into the ledger are legal part of the marriage contract and they want to be sure you understand what is being written down - actually for everyone's protection).

There have been some reports here of SOME amphur offices requiring divorced farangs to present their original divorce papers from their home country, presumably translated into Thai and then certified by MFA, as well as having some kind of a separate translator.

When my now wife and I originally went to a khet/amphur office in the On Nut area of Bangkok, that's what they told us they'd require. That was about one and a half years ago. And it didn't matter to them that my soon-to-be-wife spoke perfectly good English herself.

I think basically they just didn't want to deal with us. There are some who believe that the Thai government folks who do that kind of thing are those who may frown on mixed marriages. I have no way of confirming that kind of notion.

In the end, we got married at the Bangrak district office, elsewhere in Bangkok, and they didn't require any documents about my prior divorce in the U.S., nor did they require any kind of separate translator.

And, BTW, the U.S. Consulate never asks you to provide any documents relating to a prior divorce from the U.S. You just have to fill out their two affidavits that are required for those who have been previously married, and then have those two documents translated into Thai and then certified by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

[HHTel]

I married a Thai some time ago. With an agent I had to go to the British Embassy to get a letter 'free to marry'. No original papers required. Did that in the morning and were married (legally) in the afternoon. No big deal.

Wish it had been more complicated then I could have saved myself a lot of heartache in future years.

[drtreelove]

I didn't have my US divorce papers and didn't have any problem with marriage in Thailand process 13 years ago. My bad for not keeping them, but it was not something I treasured or thought I would ever need.

It was a major obstacle when I decided to move back to the US and applied for a permanent resident visa for my wife. Homeboy security denied our application the first time because of not having the actual divorce decree, and once they deny you it is a huge deal get through an appeal. They wanted original divorce decree with red ink stamp and county clerk signature and all. But the county where my divorce had been filed had lost computer files during an upgrade.

I finally got the divorce papers from my ex-wife, who denied having them and didn't want to cooperate until my attorney notified her that she would be subpoenaed for a court hearing; then the papers magically appeared. But I had to start all over again with a new visa application and a lot of expense.

By the way Barry, congratulations, I hope you are getting lucky like I did. My Thai wife has been amazing, stood by me through a lot of challenges and we are happier than ever now and raising four incredible kids. You hear about a lot of disappointments, especially here on TV, but it is possible to find a good Thai wife and avoid all the BS and horror stories. Not that it is always easy!

When I retired on a shoestring and moved to Thailand and found my wife I never dreamed that I would move back to the US. But my wife has a heart for Thai orphans and abandoned children, and we have adopted four. As they have reached college age I had to bite the bullet and move back to the US to work for awhile to support their education. It's worth it, we got lucky with good kids, all in their 20s now and coming into their own. The oldest girl, after recovering from almost dying from falciparum malaria, is working and just blew me away by offering to pay rent for a room at our house there with her girl partner. Next oldest girl is a straight A academic wonder and just finished her degree in biology and is in final year of teacher training, and has a high school teaching position lined up. Our 20yo boy was not so astute academically, decided on trade school and will finish next year as an electrician. Our third girl went through rough times with a screwed up yaba addicted boyfriend in high school and got expelled in her senior year, but has come around, is in a private trade college for accounting and paralegal office manager work and is engaged to a great young Thai guy from a good family, who is in his final year of law school. All clean and sober as far as I know and on their way to creating their own lives. All that would not have come about without my wife and her enduring, limitless love and devotion to me and her children.

So I got lucky, hope you do too. But work on getting your divorce decree; you never know if you might need it. I went through major surgery in the US and was blessed to have my wife by my side. County Clerk or Family Law Center at the county where your divorce was filed.

[fred Kubasa]

Why the hell would anyone be dumb enough to mention a marriage/divorce that officials here have no way to check ? Eh, old single boy !

[drtreelove]

Why the hell would anyone be dumb enough to mention a marriage/divorce that officials here have no way to check ? Eh, old single boy !

That's a good point. But at your own discretion and risk. You are signing a sworn statement at both US Consulate and Thai amphur, and if you have had life experience you will know that something like this has a remote possibility of coming back to kick your ass if you are less than honest and transparent. US green card is another story, don't take a chance.

[barrysworld59]

Way to go,Freddy boy, keep those lies coming until you might have to deal with the US Embassy..You would be surprised how far your lies would go until you get caught..Be careful and respectful..It will get you a lot further!!!!

[Mike45]

If anyone has a similar experience or advice, can you please help me?? I am a retired American with retirement visa...I wish to marry my thai g/f....I have already gone to U.S. Embassy and finished filling out my Marriage Affadavit and having it stamped and paid the $50 fee...

I do not have a copy of my divorce papers(11 years ago)..So, what are my next steps??? I have been told that swearing that I can marry on marriage affadavit will suffice in lieu of not having the actual divorce papers, but I am not sure if that is good enough for the local Amphur Banglamung district)??? I understand I need everything translated in to thai and then I have to go to FMA and back to U.S. Embassy if I want to register our marriage in America??? Is this the right steps that is needed to comply with thai law???

Thanks in advance,

Barry

Procedure

Complete an affidavit at the U.S. Embassy. The affidavit form, available in our office or you may download a copy of the form here (PDF 42KB), includes all of the information required by relevant Thai law. The form must be completed and notarized at the Embassy. The notarial fee is $50 per seal. Make an appointment for a notary service.

Have the notarized affidavit translated. List of translators in the Bangkok area (PDF 50KB).

Take the affidavit and translation to:

Legalization Division

Department of Consular Affairs

Ministry of Foreign Affairs

3rd Floor, 123 Chaeng Wattana Road

Tung Song Hong, Laksi District, Bangkok

Tel: 02-575-1057-8, Fax: 02-575-1054

NOTE: this office is located in a northern suburb of Bangkok, approximately 30 minutes’ drive from the Embassy.

Take the affidavit and supporting documents to a local Amphur and register yourselves as married. The Amphur will also require the following documents:

Your U.S. passport;

Identification for the other party, such as a Thai citizen's identification card; If either party is under the age of twenty, written permission from the parents with Thai translation);

If either you or your fiance have been previously married the Amphur will want to see proof that prior marriages have been terminated. DIVORCE or death certificates should suffice. These documents, if available, should be translated into Thai prior to presentation at the Amphur.

The Amphur’s office will provide a marriage certificate. Have the marriage certificate translated and take it for legalization at:

Legalization Division

Department of Consular Affairs

Ministry of Foreign Affairs

3rd Floor, 123 Chaeng Wattana Road

Tung Song Hong, Laksi District, Bangkok

Tel: 02-575-1057-8, Fax: 02-575-1054

Bring the legalized marriage certificate to the Embassy for authentication. Make an appointment for a notarial to authenticate the marriage certificate. The notarial fee is $50 per

seal.

This last step is important if you wish to register your marriage in the United States.

[laislica]

OP, this is slightly off topic but may be useful, I had no idea that these points would come up..

During the Amphur marriage, they asked, and recorded on the paper that accompanies the marriage certificate, Khor Ror 2;

if you cohabited and for how long before the marriage.

We were asked if there was any property that you have that you wish to have recorded.

(a bit like a pre-nup?).

My Embassy required that I present the original of my divorce certificate before they authorized my Affirmation of Freedom to Marry.
However, from many posts in this thread, it seems that you may not need to do that.

Notice that they recorded the Thai divorce certificate but not mine.

A translation of page 2 of our Khor Ror.2

Memorandum

1. Both parties to be married had once registered marriage. The male party to be married has already divorced. The female party to be married has already divorced according to divorce certificate No. 123456 dated xxxxx, issued at the registration office of xxxxxxx.
2. Before marriage registration, both parties had cohabited for xxxxx.
3. Regarding Properties; They do not wish to have their properties recorded.
   The male party to be married is of xxxx national, holder of xxxxx Passport No. 1234567 issued on xxxx at xxx and valid until xxxx- To this office he produced a certificate of legal capacity to contract marriage from the xxxx Embassy, Consular Section, Bangkok dated xxxx. He does not understand Thai so Mr. xxxx is serving as his interpreter.
   Using of title name; The female party to be married wishes to use her Title Name as “Mrs.”.
   Using the family name: The female party to be married wishes to use family name of the male party to be named as “xxxxx”.
   
   We Mr. xxx and Mrs xxxx, hereby testify that the statements recorded by the Registrar above, have been read out to both of us are true in every respect. In evidence whereof, we have subscribed hereto our signatures in the presence of the Registrar and witnesses.

Congratulations in advance and may you both live long and enjoy happiness together.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

My Embassy required that I present the original of my divorce certificate before they authorized my Affirmation of Freedom to Marry.

This being Thailand, it would seem the procedures on these things are a bit varied, depending on what home country consulate you're dealing with, and then, what amphur or khet office you're dealing with.

As I mentioned above, the U.S. Consulate does not require any kind of documentary proof that someone has a prior marriage that ended in divorce. They do, however, have a second affidavit for those who have been previously married where you have to declare the details of that, including the date of the divorce.

And, re the guidance quoted above about having to provide some proof of the divorce at the amphur/khet office, at least in the case of the Bangrak khet office in Bangkok, which is probably the most popular one in Bangkok for mixed couples to register marriages, they do not require any documentary evidence beyond the affidavits from your Consulate and then translated and certified by Thai MFA.

However, as I noted above, my wife and I, prior to our marriage, did run into a different khet office (Klong Toey) where the staff insisted that we'd need to provide a divorce decree document from my prior marriage in the U.S. and bring along a translator as well. Needless to say, we ended up not dealing with Klong Toey khet at all.

[barrysworld59]

Well,thanks for all your replies..I am providing an update to my original question...I have been married for 1 month now and I did NOT need any divorce paperwork...I went to U.S. Embassy whrn their consular outreach came to Pattaya and swore that I was able to marry and single, paid the $50 and they stamped the affidavit and my wife got all the translation done and the next week we went to Banglamung Amphur and got married..

We brought along 2 witnesses, but the staff wanted to offer their services for 300 baht which I was more than happy to pay and brought a smile to their faces!!! My wife did have to go to change her name at another office as this amphur did not provide that service..

The whole process just took a few hours and we were legally married...

I hope this information may help someone else as to the marriage process...Basically it was easy as pie and I am a happily married man again!!!!

[laislica]

Congratulations.

With her change name certificate, your wife can get a new Thai ID and Passport.

[barrysworld59]

Thanks, actually when we went back to the local Amphur they issued her a new i.d. card and the passport change is coming soon.......

Take care, Barry

[bwpage3]

Congratulations.

[spidermike007]

The US embassy simply asks you to swear you have never been married before. It worked for me. Getting the actual divorce papers in my case would have required great expense and effort and a long time. Simply easier to swear. They took me at my word. Done deal.

[laislica]

The US embassy simply asks you to swear you have never been married before. It worked for me. Getting the actual divorce papers in my case would have required great expense and effort and a long time. Simply easier to swear. They took me at my word. Done deal.

To swear that you are "free to marry" is a legal oath.

To swear that you have have never been married before when you have been divorced is a fraudulent oath in my understanding.

Hope it never comes back to bite you.

I'm a Brit and our lot always want proof that you have been divorced, or actually show bank statements to prove funds etc.

They never take us only at our word.

Strange than, we do say that an Englishman's word is his bond LOL

It's quite funny really cos part of the hoops getting my wife registered in Spain, where I live,

was a trip to the Brit consul in Malaga.

We each had to swear, on the Bible, that we were really married and really living together.

My wife's spoken English is OK but no chance to read it.

She is not a Christian so the Bible has no meaning for her.

But still we Had to go through this BS!

It was hilarious.

We went into a locked, private room.

The Consul was behind a bullet proof glass screen, holding up the card with the oath we each had to swear.

It was a pantomime, but it made them happy.

They collected a huge fee (about 10,000Baht at the time) and the job was done.

Good luck for you that they accept your word as your bond.

[barrysworld59]

I think the last poster is missing the point!! The document that youswear to at the "US Embassy" does ask if you were divorced before before...In my case,I answered "yes"...It then asks you if you are single and free to marry which I also checked and which was true.....so there is no lie here...The point I am trying to make is that the "local Amphur" does accept this sworn oath and for those Americans that might worry because they cannot or might have trouble obtaining a copy of their divorce papers,it is NOt necessary to have them with you because the local amphur did not ask for anything but the "sworn oath" aming the other documents that you need...

Of course< I do agree, that if you do lie,it may indeed catch up with you later, but if you simply tell the truth, you're ok without "divorce papers"at least, at the local Amphur here in Pattaya

Happy Holidays, Barry

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I dealt with some of the same issues the OP raises, when I got married here a couple of years ago.

IME, it comes down to the typical Thai variations/different procedures from one Amphur/Khet office to another.

When we went to get married in BKK, the first district office we went to wanted 1] translated original copies of my prior U.S. divorce decree, and 2] an outside translator, even though my wife is fluent in English. Basically, my wife felt, they just didn't want to deal with doing marriages for mixed couples.

So, instead, we went to the Bangrak district office in BKK where 1] they only wanted the Consulate documents and didn't care about my original divorce papers from the U.S., and b] they didn't care at all about having some kind of translator. Totally different experience.

The upshot is: unlike Immigration business, you can register a marriage at any Amphur/Khet office, not just the one closest to your home. So, if the officials at your local office are being uncooperative or demanding things outside the norm, just use a different district office instead. And if necessary, check here with the sub forum for where you live about others' experiences with local offices.

[lopburi3]

an outside translator, even though my wife is fluent in English.

That is intended to protect you from a spouse misleading you on what you sign. It does not have to be a legal translator - just someone other than the spouse.