Paxil & Ritalin - Serotonine vs Dopamine

[dennis123]

Initially the doctor gave me Ritalin and Stablon, both increase Dopamin, I sure worked an awful lot the last weeks when I was on that but it didn't do anything for my anxiety and agitation at all, not that it made it worse though.

I did some reading up and it says that Serotonin relates to sleepyness, anxiety and agitation.

Earlier this week I went to see the doctor again, we decided to replace Stablon for Paxil (seroxat).

I took 5mg of Paxil for the 3rd time today in combination with 40mg beta blocker as I had to change my car on name and issues with that so I wanted to prevent trembling out of angryness.

We did have some issue with the car, which I solved in an efficient and calm way, no angry outburst as usual, during the drive there i also had something that would normally annoy the hell out of me and now it didn't really bother me.

Overall I felt pretty good today as well, better than usual, had spontanious feelings to smile now and then, a little bit like a different person already even though I take such low dosage as recommended by the doctor to start with.

After I came home and had some work to do but couldn't put myself to it, so I took a Ritalin, the Ritalin makes me feel a bit strange, even a bit sad, it seems to completely neutralize the Paxil, I also had a few coffee today and after those coffees I already felt my happyness disappearing a little bit, and this Ritalin made it much worse. After reading a ton of stories on the internet it seems that most doctors would recommend to increase the Paxil dosage. However to me it makes much more sense to decrease the Ritalin instead, or stop drinking coffee and coke.

I felt so good today on Paxil that I'm seriously considering to quit Ritalin completely.

The only thing that bothers me is that Ritalin also improves my movement ability and motivation.

What do you think, is it one or the other, can't have both? Eg can't be happy + motivated at the same time? Really feels like a trade off.

[dennis123]

On the internet I read that serotonine is the transmitter that takes care of the balancing so what I think, today I drink one coke + 2 coffee + 1 ritalin, maybe I had too much Dopamine that the Serotonine tried to break off and as such was so busy with that that it didn't have time to make me happy anymore and thus cause this odd, little bit sad feeling?

I had this bit of a sad/odd feeling for the last two weeks btw, though in a lesser degree that it didn't affect my work as my motivation was through the roof. Since I started with the Paxil it decreased my motivation and it didn't make me particularly happy, until I didn't take Ritalin in the morning and only the Paxil with the beta blocker.

Seems like a bad combination that doesn't bring any benefits at all to combine Paxil + Ritalin. As the Ritalin keeps me down, and the Paxil makes me lazy. Would be great if they could work together eg increase motivation and happyness.

Maybe I will keep taking Ritalin till I'm through my stock to move some serious work the next weeks and after that cancel Ritalin and switch to Paxil to enjoy life!

Could also be that Ritalin never did much for me, it's not uncommon for me to have a work sprint for weeks in a row where I move a ton (I think Ritalin was just the trigger) and after a while that wears off / boredom kicks in so maybe I am better off solely on Paxil as it makes me feel so much better and I never tried to work on it when being in such mood, maybe that works out great.

Still interesting how the Ritalin improved my motoric big time, which I liked pretty much, especially the first day though that decreased rather quickly.

Conclusion taken while writing this, I quit Ritalin now and move on to Paxil only.

Edited October 16, 2015 by dennis123

[DogNo1]

There is some evidence to show that Ritalin and Paxil taken together can treat depression effectively. Ritalin decreases the reuptake of dopamine and norepinephrine while Paxil decreases the reuptake of serotonin. Why not discuss adjusting the dosage of each with your doctor to see if you can achieve a balance of dopamine and serotonin that you like? It will take patience to work out the dosage that is correct for you. Here is an article that you may like: http://www.netwellness.org/question.cfm/24402.htm

Good luck.

[dennis123]

There is some evidence to show that Ritalin and Paxil taken together can treat depression effectively. Ritalin decreases the reuptake of dopamine and norepinephrine while Paxil decreases the reuptake of serotonin. Why not discuss adjusting the dosage of each with your doctor to see if you can achieve a balance of dopamine and serotonin that you like? It will take patience to work out the dosage that is correct for you. Here is an article that you may like: http://www.netwellness.org/question.cfm/24402.htm

Good luck.

My depression isn't that bad, it's just that I'm quickly angered and this anxious thing but it's not like I feel immens sad without any medication so I wouldn't classify myself as a tough case that would need two types of medications to treat it. I take Ritalin for my ADD instead, though I lived my whole life with ADD and without Ritalin and accomplished quite a lot so I can do without Ritalin.

The dosage that I take is real low, eg 5mg Paxil / 10mg Ritalin so I could try to break that tiny 10mg Ritalin tablet in two, or double the Paxil to 10mg, however i read a lot of bad stuff about Paxil so I rather keep the dosage as low as possible. Maybe I go to my psych to replace my 10mg Ritalin tablets for 5mg .

Still amazed how I could feel so significant better with just a tiny bit of Paxil, because of this happy state my anxiety disappeared as well (normally if I only take beta blockers it deals with the physical aspect but not the psychological). Maybe I'll just move to eating a lot of bananas and almonds to stabilize my dopamine instead of using speed/ritalin.

I read that article yesterday btw and especially this caught my attention, in my case I respond amazingly well to those SSRI's. At the end of the article it talks about taking Ritalin as a party drug, well that's the first thing I did when I felt I took too much for the first time, up to the bar and later at night I dropped 3* 10mg more. I'm honest so I told my psych about that and she laughed and said something like bi-polar, which I looked up on the internet but I don't recognize myself in that. Anyhow after that abuse I quit Ritalin for like 4 days in a row and after that I slowly started to take one per day again.

Methylphenidate may also be used to reduce depressive symptoms in patients who have not responded adequately to SSRI`s alone.

Edited October 16, 2015 by dennis123

[dennis123]

Small update:

Today I took 5mg Paxil and 5mg Ritalin and I feel normal like most people I guess, (not happy, not sad, not anxious), I'll keep taking this till the 28th (when I go on holiday to Cambodia).

On holiday I will either keep taking 5mg Paxil or perhaps increase to 10mg, I will test that a few days before first but I won't take the Ritalin with me.

[DogNo1]

You might want to consider taking Wellbutrin. I take 150 mg each morning and it seems to blunt my short-temperedness pretty. I don't have any side effects from it that I know of. In Thailand it's known as Quomem and is often prescribed to people who want to stop smoking.

[oncearugge]

You might want to consider taking Wellbutrin. I take 150 mg each morning and it seems to blunt my short-temperedness pretty. I don't have any side effects from it that I know of. In Thailand it's known as Quomem and is often prescribed to people who want to stop smoking.

Wellbutrin is an atypical antidepressant and your advise to someone who is already "experimenting " with prescribed medication is both unwise and potentially dangerous.

Edited October 17, 2015 by oncearugge

[dennis123]

You might want to consider taking Wellbutrin. I take 150 mg each morning and it seems to blunt my short-temperedness pretty. I don't have any side effects from it that I know of. In Thailand it's known as Quomem and is often prescribed to people who want to stop smoking.

Paxil is working great for me, my anxiousness has completely disappeared in only 4 days.

Last night I was talking with a Thai guy and he didn't understand anything, normally that would piss me off rather quickly but now I stayed calm so works good for agitation as well, exactly what the doc prescribed it for, and on top of that it also makes me more happy.

I take 10mg btw, thought it was 5mg but the tablets are 20mg and I take a half. Yesterday I added 5mg Ritalin but didn't really like it so I quit taking Ritalin from now on.

Last night I went to the bar for the first time in 2.5 weeks or so and after 4 beers I was a little drunk, went to see a show where I had another beer and I drink a lot slower then usual, then after another bar where I had another 4 beers and I was pretty drunk and yawning. So nine beers in total. I can normally easily drink two or three times that amount, only out of 1500 baht, never spend so little on a night out lol.

[Sheryl]

You might want to consider taking Wellbutrin. I take 150 mg each morning and it seems to blunt my short-temperedness pretty. I don't have any side effects from it that I know of. In Thailand it's known as Quomem and is often prescribed to people who want to stop smoking.

Wellbutrin is an atypical antidepressant and your advise to someone who is already "experimenting " with prescribed medication is both unwise and potentially dangerous.

Agree. This self-diagnosing/prescribing of potent psychotropics (and switching around from one to the other) is already very unwise and not to be encouraged.

[dennis123]

Little anxious today, I blame it on the alcohol. Testing myself by going to places that make me anxious to see how well the medication works.

Have to say I sleep a lot better, always 7.5 hours at least without waking up in between, that's quite unique!

[dennis123]

I mentioned the good things so far, now the bad things:

- Lack of motivation

- Tired during the day

- Near impossible to reach an orgasm, though sexual desire is the same which is frustrating

I thought the Stablon that I used previously for two weeks wasn't doing anything but now I feel that the motivation did come from the Stablon and not from the Ritalin, also when waking up while combining Ritalin and Stablon I felt much more energetic, now not so much at all, it really takes about an hour before I really feel awake.

Combination of the Paxil and Ritalin makes me feel odd so I think I make a new appointment this week and ask to replace the Ritalin with Stablon (never mind the ADD) and if possible replace the Paxil with something that doesn't affect my sexual abilities. Even when I reach an orgasm after like an hour it doesn't feel that good, while on the Stablon it felt better than ever, though it also took longer than usual but I think that's also cause of the Ritalin.

[dennis123]

Update:

Honestly I only felt much better for one single day, the day I transferred my car to my name. That day I took 40mg beta blocker and 10mg Paxil (no Ritalin)

Only later that day I did take Ritalin and started to feel bad, and the two days that followed I haven't noticed any happy feelings and it seems it also does less for the anxiety, have been taken Ritalin during these days. Besides that as mentioned it's bad for sex and I can sleep all day long, in the afternoon I took a nap which lasted four hours so whole day is gone and when I woke up and went out I felt quite depressed, right now I feel tired again and I've only been awake for 2.5 hours. I also lack motivation and have to force myself to work, same like prior to medication.

I seriously wonder if it's all worth it, normally i could cope with my anxiety either by having a few beers to bring it to acceptable levels or by taking a beta blocker in case I have some official occasion. I read a lot of bad stories about Paxil, all about the same things I mention here, tiredness, sexual problems and huge withdrawal symptoms in an attempt to quit.

Today when I woke up around 18:00 I went to McDonalds and besides feeling down I also felt angry in traffic (again same as prior to medication), so it seems it isn't doing much at all.

Not sure what to do now, should I give it more time perhaps or better quit while it's likely still easy to quit?

Check this:

"It's worth restating that depressed people getting Paxil were 6.4 times more likely to display suicidal thoughts and behavior than depressed people taking a sugar pill."

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-peter-breggin/fda-warns-that-paxil-make_b_21388.html

Edited October 19, 2015 by dennis123

[Sheryl]

...

I seriously wonder if it's all worth it, normally i could cope with my anxiety either by having a few beers to bring it to acceptable levels or by taking a beta blocker in case I have some official occasion.

As I have repeatedly said I think you are on entirely the wrong track and apt to worsen your problems with all this experimentation with pyschotropic meds.

First of all, you need to understand that there is nothing on earth that can guarantee you only good days, no anxiety etc etc. Ups and downs in moods and difficult times are part of life. There is NO medication that will change that, and your expectations seem more than a little unrealistic.

Secondly, even when the severity of the distress is such that it has to be treated, drugs alone are never the best treatment. They are also not always necessary, but when they are, they work best in combination with short-term therapy.

IF drugs are needed -- and they often are not -- the selection needs to be made by a professional based on a thorough understanding of the individual patient's condition. Psychiatrists, especially in Thailand, seldom spend enough time to get a sense of this and can easily make the wrong script as a result. All the more so when in a case like yours the patient comes in determined to get a specific drug and slants what they say accordingly.

In your case everything that you have said to me sounds most like a Generalized Anxiety Disorder (which can in its effects mimic ADD i.e. it will certainly impair concentration), with or without elements of depression (the two can coexist).I may be wrong of course, and you should spend some time (i.e. a few sessions at least) with a good psychologist to determine this. If this is what you have, the drugs you have taken so far are completely wrong and likely to make it worse.

I think you need to drop the preoccupation with which drug to take and focus instead on actually gaining an understanding of what the problem is and how to best manage it, approaching that with an open mind. No more trying to "stack the deck" in what you say in order to get a particular drug that you think will be the answer. And no more rushing to take a pill. Invest the time to actually get a handle on what s going on, and let a good psychologist help you (which means of cousre being completely honest and open with them, not trying to persuade them that you have condition X or need drug Y).

[simon43]

Last night I went to the bar for the first time in 2.5 weeks or so and after 4 beers I was a little drunk, went to see a show where I had another beer and I drink a lot slower then usual, then after another bar where I had another 4 beers and I was pretty drunk and yawning

I'll be blunt here - why don't you duplicate your posts in the 'I drink too much' forum - drinking that amount of alcohol surely cannot be helping your mental (or physical) state.

[dennis123]

I stacked the deck initially when I semi-demanded the Ritalin but I'm done with that now, tried it and doesn't seem the right drugs to me. After I got it prescribed I had a chat with my parents which said that I had been tested for ADD when I was very young, however not positive, what they found back then (30+ years ago) was minimal brain disorder (MBD).

I read around on the internet and saw claims from several people that their lifes changed completely after being on meds, so felt I want that too so I guess thats where my unrealistic expectations come from.

Completely agree that psychiatrists just do something, she didn't even tell me what she replaced the Stablon with, had to read that on the medication itself, like I'm some test subject, anyhow I just left it to her, she asked how I felt, told her that I thought the Stablon had no effect (but that the Ritalin did, I was wrong) and she instantly replaced it with something else, I personally hinted to increase the dosage of the Stablon, but yeah what do I know.

Anyhow I will quit both now as I don't see any positive effects at the moment, sure anxiety is a bit less but it's not like I'm non stop anxious and it's not like I'm depressed, sure I'm doom thinking but that has more to do with the course of my business that's been going down for quite some time already. I told the psych almost non stop that I'm not depressed but according to the test I am cause I filled in that I worry a lot and that I'm quickly agitated. So apparantly that's enough to classify you as having a 'depression'.

You said: "The drugs you've taken so far are completely wrong", so you think from what I've wrote that I'm not depressed either?

[dennis123]

Last night I went to the bar for the first time in 2.5 weeks or so and after 4 beers I was a little drunk, went to see a show where I had another beer and I drink a lot slower then usual, then after another bar where I had another 4 beers and I was pretty drunk and yawning

I'll be blunt here - why don't you duplicate your posts in the 'I drink too much' forum - drinking that amount of alcohol surely cannot be helping your mental (or physical) state.

I only had nine beers, that's not even an average night out drinking for me. In the past I drank at least twice that amount on a regular night out. That night it just kicked in more due to those medicins.

[dennis123]

Shoot me, I make a new appointment today and return the Ritalin and Paxil and ask for Stablon again.

Reasons:

- It made me sleep well

- Felt highly motivated

- Felt fit in the morning

- No negative side effects

- No withdrawal symptoms from what I've read

Not sure if it did anything for anxiety but the Ritalin makes me feel drugged and might've increased anxiety so could be working against each other so I want to give it a good shot without the Ritalin and for specific occasions I can always drop a beta blocker.

In addition I will go out less frequently, drink less, eat more healthy and try to smoke less and exercise more as I live a pretty unhealthy lifestyle.

Paxil simply has too many downsides. way too tired, unmotivated and bad for libido, even feel a little sedated by it, not what I want.

Edited October 20, 2015 by dennis123

[simon43]

I only had nine beers, that's not even an average night out drinking for me. In the past I drank at least twice that amount on a regular night out.

Thanks for that additional information. Perhaps it would help if I gave you a direct link to the sub-forum:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/98-i-drink-too-much-forum/

[dennis123]

I only had nine beers, that's not even an average night out drinking for me. In the past I drank at least twice that amount on a regular night out.

Thanks for that additional information. Perhaps it would help if I gave you a direct link to the sub-forum:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/98-i-drink-too-much-forum/

I posted there a while ago but I don't have any drinking problems, I agree anxiety increases after a night drinking but I take that for granted.

[Sheryl]

....I read around on the internet and saw claims from several people that their lifes changed completely after being on meds, so felt I want that too so I guess thats where my unrealistic expectations come from.

The whole problem in a nutshell.

Completely unrealistic expectations. Drop them, lose the meds and get on with your life.

You can find virtually any claim on the internet. Doesn't make it in any way true.

[simon43]

I posted there a while ago but I don't have any drinking problems, I agree anxiety increases after a night drinking but I take that for granted.

OK, I'm not a doctor, but I would suggest that massively reducing your alcohol intake can only benefit your physical and mental health.

Drinking the number of alcohol units that you state surely cannot be healthy for you.

[dennis123]

Agree with both of you.

Anyhow just back from the hospital, I returned the Ritalin and Seroxat (Paxil).

Now I will try Stablon as it helps me sleep well and motivates me, and occasionally I'll take beta blockers (as they've proven to work well for me).

The other two are just a bit too much over the top, after five weeks when I have a return appointment so let's see by then.

[dennis123]

So first day on Stablon again, will likely take some time to work but feel ok, eg same like prior to all these medications, wonder if I get any withdrawal symptoms, don't really think so as I've only taken that Seroxat for a week but damn what did it make me tired last night, like it made me more tired everyday despite of sleeping excessively much during the night and during the day. Unless you're crazy depressed I'd say stay away from it.