Reclaiming retirement Visa Funds

[csabo]

You seem to have a low esteem of the thai people...and you are still here..

It isn't necessary to like the people in order to like the country.

What a strange statement. The people ARE the country. Are you here because you like Thai trees?

I'm here for the bushes

[Jip99]

Don't really see the need to mention anything about the money being connected to "retirement extension".....wouldn't it apply to any money a man had in his bank account in his name only?

Yes.

The purpose/intent of the funds is irrelevant.

[davidstipek]

Before anyone continues to Bash the Wives or Husbands of the deceased Be Reminded of this:

To get your SSI funds here SSA has stipulations.

1. In Retirees name only, No such thing as a Joint SSI account!

2. No ATM, Debit or Credit Card can be attached to this account!

3. Retiree to Draw from account needs to be present in the flesh, with Passport and Bank Book! Only one who can Debit this account is one pictured in Passport and Signature must match withdrawal slip and hidden Signature in Bank Book!

If Married (Legal Marriage with documents) originals copies on file with account at Bank. Bank has copies on file. So they have already in their hands complete instructions on what they are to do when they are presented with all Account information and certificate of Death. SSA also knows at the creation of account who the Survivor is, so any delay here or extra Paperwork/Costs is not warranted!! Bank Knows this so does the SSA. If you are having issues they will go to Bat for you! Bank wants to stall... They could loose the certification to entitling them to receive this influx of U.S. Currency. This has nothing to do with Children, everyone entitled to any Benefits upon the Death of receiver are named on all contained Paperwork. Also Spouse needs to forward any documents of death to SSA. So SSA can switch (Change) to correct entitlement for everyone affected. Once approved SSA will forward papers for survivor to present to Bank approving the release of funds to the survivor.

Those who say oh... someone cannot be trusted... Have no Clue! Full of BS!! The set-up of these accounts if wanted is Mandated by SSA. Has nothing to do with what you or anyone else thinks of your Spouse! At the Time Mine was set-up Bangkok Bank was the only approved Bank designated to receive SSI Funds. There was a Benefit... The Wireless Deposits are made to Bangkok Bank, New York-N.Y. The exact time the Deposit is received it will show up here in Thailand, You will also get a Phone Text Message from Bangkok Bank of the deposit, Total US Funds received, Exchange Amount and Rate of Exchange it was converted at and what fee was charged at receiving end in N.Y. Will show up on Up-Date of Bank Book when scanned/updated.

There are a lot of speculations as to why these Account were mandated to be setup this way. I think it had a lot to do with Fraud at all ends of the spectrum, Not because of Wife! This starts from Bank, Post, Family, Thieves etc.

Edited October 19, 2015 by davidstipek

[KittenKong]

You seem to have a low esteem of the thai people...and you are still here..

It isn't necessary to like the people in order to like the country.

What a strange statement. The people ARE the country. Are you here because you like Thai trees?

I disagree. I think that the people (or more accurately, how they behave) are one of the the worst things about Thailand, but the same applies to many other countries in the world also.

The main reason I live here is because I dont have to pay income tax and my retirement extension is easy to obtain. If I could live somewhere like, say, Portugal or Spain without paying income tax then I would be long gone as I have automatic right of abode there and full health care cover (being from the UK).

If I wanted to live somewhere where I liked the people it would probably be the Philippines, but there I would pay income tax and the food is not as nice as here.

So in the end it's all a bit of a compromise. But that's life.

[davidstipek]

I just reread the Title to the original post... "Reclaiming retirement Visa Funds"

Why is the required funds not in a separate Joint account, Mine is and my wife can withdraw with proof of my death. I as originator of Account can withdraw anytime...

Simple!

[khunPer]

Sorry, but I’m feeling very confused after reading a number of posts in this tread – like it’s not at all talking about Thailand – I stay here myself on Visa-extension granted for reason of Retirement.

To my knowledge, and how it has worked for me during the past 9 years, the sum to be deposited – either full amount of 800k, or 400k on extension based on marriage, or part thereof using the combination of income and deposit – shall be in a Thai bank account in the Visa-holders name only; however some Immigration offices accepts shared account with two names, if that holds the double amount, i.e. 800k or 1,600k. The deposit account can be any normal bank account(s), i.e. savings or fixed, as long as the money can be withdrawn without reservations, which most fixed accounts can with loss of interest. The deposit can be a combination of several accounts, in the Visa-holders name only; just the sum adds up to the required amount and has been in deposit (matured) for minimum 3 month.

Above is how we always hear the experts talk about marriage and retirement deposits in Thai Visa Forum – some Immigration offices may run after their own interpretation, but I never read about different general methods that all offices accepts.

The simplest way to do this – if you can afford it – is to keep the 800k, or 400k if marriage, permanently in one only fixed account. You can shop for best interest rates – 2.5 to 3.5 percent p.a. can often be obtained from various special offers – just the deposit always has been matured for 3 month before applying for next Visa-extension; because it can be utterly difficult to explain to an Immigration Officer that the money has been moved from this account to that account during maturing period.

On death the bank account(s) will be part of the deceased’s estate. If the deposit account – or one of them, if more than one account – has an ATM card assigned and a wife knows the code, she may be able to withdraw up to the daily allowance on the ATM card; this may not be legal, but is normally advised between Thai spouses’ talk. When the bank receives knowledge about the death of an accountholder, normally all accounts in that name will be frozen. However, I read in a another tread in this forum, that shared accounts will not be frozen, as according to Thai Law the full deposits belongs to both names in the account.

I don’t know about “reclaim of retirement Visa funds”, but perhaps a Last Will can state that some money shall be paid out immediately to spouse and/or child(ren) to cover living expenses; this is legal in (some) foreign Wills – I have it included in my Will – but it may need a Court approval.

If no (Thai) Will has been made, a legally married spouse shall inherit 50 percent and child/children the other half (there is a standard Thai codec of lineage). A foreign Will only, stating something different, and heirs making claims through a Thai Court, may complicate the estate. When the Court finalizes the estate, the money in the deposit account shall be paid to respective heirs.

It is advisable always to make a Thai Will when marriage, or just living together with a permanent girlfriend/spouse one wish to take care of, or having Thai children. Don’t forget, accidents can happen, so it’s not only a question for “near-dead expats”. A Thai Will can be a very simple process – you can actually just write it yourself in English language, or your native, in clear simple text, attested by two witnesses – according to the two Thai lawyers writing the book “Thai Law for Foreigners”. Having a lawyer to make it up for you with an authorized Thai translation may make it less complicated, depending how many heirs you will have in your Last Will.

I have stated in my Thai Will that money in shared accounts shall belong to the other named account holder, so there shall be no doubt and/or reclaim, if that person withdraws the money after my death – I found it a good protection to have some fund in shared account(s); also in case something happens to me, and my GF need instant cash to take care of me...

[Langsuan Man]

I love all these lawyers and their talk of fraud

If I give you my ATM card and PIN, where is the fraud ?

Did I not give it willingly ? Was I not of sound mind when I gave it ? Did you stand in front of me with a gun demanding it ?

Of course not, it was given willingly, therefore there is no fraud to commit

From Blacks Law Dictionary, online version:

What is FRAUD?

Fraud consists of some deceitful practice or willful device, resorted to withintent to deprive another of his right, or in some manner to do him an injury. As distinguishedfrom negligence, it is always positive, intentional

source: http://thelawdictionary.org/fraud/

Edited October 20, 2015 by Langsuan Man

[Bernard Flint]

Why do some expats with long term gf or wife not make a will, this makes everything clear in Thailand.

[Jip99]

I love all these lawyers and their talk of fraud

If I give you my ATM card and PIN, where is the fraud ?

Did I not give it willingly ? Was I not of sound mind when I gave it ? Did you stand in front of me with a gun demanding it ?

Of course not, it was given willingly, therefore there is no fraud to commit

From Blacks Law Dictionary, online version:

What is FRAUD?

Fraud consists of some deceitful practice or willful device, resorted to withintent to deprive another of his right, or in some manner to do him an injury. As distinguishedfrom negligence, it is always positive, intentional

source: http://thelawdictionary.org/fraud/

You are wrong again.

The use of the card after your death is fraud - end of.

Try reading the terms and conditions of use from a bank. Notably, 'death of a customer'.

Unfortunately, your ignorance of the law is no defence.

I will try and educate you:-

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/savings/when-you-die-is-your-bank-account-in-limbo-1.aspx

Edited October 20, 2015 by Jip99

[Langsuan Man]

Next time try and educate someone on Thai law, not from Bankrate.com which is a US site

[Jip99]

I just reread the Title to the original post... "Reclaiming retirement Visa Funds"

Why is the required funds not in a separate Joint account, Mine is and my wife can withdraw with proof of my death. I as originator of Account can withdraw anytime...

Simple!

Simple! and what you say is absolutely correct.... but you cannot use those funds for immigration purposes when applying for an extension based on retirement. That is the point of the thread.

[Jip99]

Next time try and educate someone on Thai law, not from Bankrate.com which is a US site

.. and you think Thai law is different?

Try this from the States - the principles are EXACTLY the same in Thailand.

ALL mandates cease on death.

http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/using-deceased-husbands-debit-card-to-withdraw-cas-679522.html

[louse1953]

This is my worst nightmare and one reason I don't plan on depositing said funds when and if the time comes.

I suspect such funds typically goto the thai government or thai women looking to collect rather then the deceased estate as they should. Like a retirement tax.

Common knowledge that easy to find corrupt thai lawyers can certify forged signatures without consulting the people in question, and send such docs to the court.

We see this all the time with people losing their property. With deaths there is nobody around to complain. May also be a bigger motivation for foul play then the property issue commonly brought up.

I would not even trust a will in this country when it comes to money. But that's just me.

Of course it goes to the Thai woman,thats who most of us are leaving it to.

[louse1953]

I love all these lawyers and their talk of fraud

If I give you my ATM card and PIN, where is the fraud ?

Did I not give it willingly ? Was I not of sound mind when I gave it ? Did you stand in front of me with a gun demanding it ?

Of course not, it was given willingly, therefore there is no fraud to commit

From Blacks Law Dictionary, online version:

What is FRAUD?

Fraud consists of some deceitful practice or willful device, resorted to withintent to deprive another of his right, or in some manner to do him an injury. As distinguishedfrom negligence, it is always positive, intentional

source: http://thelawdictionary.org/fraud/

Maybe you did,maybe youdid not.Your dead!Who are we gunna verify this handover with,back to lawyers again.

[louse1953]

Next time try and educate someone on Thai law, not from Bankrate.com which is a US site

Ignorance is bliss.

[bazza40]

My Thai will specifically states the assets to be handed over to my beneficiary, including Name of bank, A/C name, number, branch etc. While I assume there is some kind of probate process to be followed, I don't anticpate too many problems.

My Thai will is in English and Thai. Because I'm a suspicious person, I took the precaution of having the Thai will translated independently to ensure it matched the English version.