Jonathan Fairfield Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Opinion: Phuket dolphinarium legitimacy put on show PHUKET:-- On one hand, it was welcomed, particularly for the investors of the new “Nemo - Dolphins Bay Phuket” dolphinarium, who have spent an espoused B100 million in complying with legal procedures to ensure the attraction could open in time for the coming high season. On the other hand, it has sent animal rights armchair activists into overdrive, as they fearlessly attack the animal entertainment tourism trade, quick to channel their anger at anybody who might not see it as black-and-white; if nothing else, our comments section has been overwhelmed with fury, passion and emotion. Though relatively silent due to the associated controversy, dolphinarium stakeholders – public,private, foreign and domestic alike – are driven by the bottom line, no doubt looking to capitalize on high-volume group tourism in Phuket. After all, it is busloads of tour groups who ensure that various animal entertainment attractions on the island – the Zoo, Bird Park, Tiger Kingdom, monkey and crocodile shows, elephant rides, just to name a few – can thrive. Most likely to dominate the visitors queuing up for the shows at the dolphinarium will be the Chinese, Phuket’s top source market for many years now Read more: http://www.thephuketnews.com/opinion-phuket-dolphinarium-legitimacy-put-on-show-54674.php -- Phuket News 2015-10-25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 For some reason I have an urge to eat a Panda burger. I wonder if China exports the meat or do they think differently when it comes to their national animal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansgruber Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Ill go and watch it before i make judgement. Armchair activists is actually spot on. Lots of them who would do nothing hands on. Just some likes and outrage on facebook is all they can muster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somtamnication Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Ill go and watch it before i make judgement. Armchair activists is actually spot on. Lots of them who would do nothing hands on. Just some likes and outrage on facebook is all they can muster. Come one Hans. Never mind how the training is done, but consider the size of the living conditions for an animal who swims 100s-1000s of km a year. That alone is called torture. Still wanna go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansgruber Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Ill go and watch it before i make judgement. Armchair activists is actually spot on. Lots of them who would do nothing hands on. Just some likes and outrage on facebook is all they can muster. Come one Hans. Never mind how the training is done, but consider the size of the living conditions for an animal who swims 100s-1000s of km a year. That alone is called torture. Still wanna go? Yes ill go for sure. No point being outraged at something i havent experienced first hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merijn Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Seeing how small the basins are it is a disgrace that this is allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceKadet Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Back in '85 I went to the Orlado SeaWorld. I still remember how bad I felt watching the magnificent Orca whales, Shamu and her newborn baby swimming around their tiny enclosure. She did get her revenge eventually... good on you girl. Since then I have never had an urge to visit a SeaWorld or a dolphinarium. Much later, as a SCUBA diver, I had the privilege swimming and diving and playing with wild dolphins. These wonderful cetaceans are not afraid to approach humans in the wild. Anybody wanting to watch a dolphin show should be forced to watch "The Cove" documentary before entering. These are the second most intelligent species on our planet for @#$% sake! In my books, the dolphinariums and shows are just in the same league as catching pelagic sharks on a longline, cutting off their fins and throwing back the still living creature in the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tczack Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Please do not go. You don't need to see this first-hand to know that Dolphins don't belong in bathtubs!!! Going just puts money into the pockets of these scumbags!!! The tide is turning, and the Blackfish effect will go global. We just need to keep the pressure on them, and inform people just how horrible a life this is for these dolphins!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Off topic posts and an inflammatory insulting post have been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinginKata Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Ill go and watch it before i make judgement. Armchair activists is actually spot on. Lots of them who would do nothing hands on. Just some likes and outrage on facebook is all they can muster. It's your choice, but I would not put one baht in the pocket of this business. Same reason that I never want to go to Phuket Zoo, and recommend to friends not to go. Many reports and photos of the squalid conditions for the animals - no need for me to go and see myself. That's my choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tingtau Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I believe that Mr. Jonathan Fairfield authored the original 'Opinion - Phuket Dolphinarium Legitimacy Put On Show' piece, and so I address my comment to him personally as well as to his sponsoring news media and any interested readers: Mr. Fairfield...you stated on the 25th of October that - " While we don’t condone the captivity and exploitation of any animals for profit – or humans for that matter – we remind all, that there are underlying “laws” that determine whether an operation is “legitimate” or otherwise." Sir.....I am in 100% agreement with you thus far! There ARE underlying "laws", laws which I mention later in this comment, which should determine the legitimacy of an operation! My issue is with your statement - "The dolphinarium has not breached any codes up to this point and thus deserves no public trial on legal grounds' It is at this point that we part company and travel in opposite directions. With respect, Mr. Fairfield, I believe that you are wrong! I believe that they not only HAVE breached certain "codes", but that, with every day that goes by in which those 5 Bottlenose dolphins continue to be incarcerated in that tiny tank, those codes are continuing to be broken. AND, Thai government agencies may, unintentionally, be complicit in causing these codes to be broken in the first instance and their continuing breach! And the following are my reasons for believing that you are wrong: On or about December 27th 2014, the government of Thailand enacted a piece of legislation called the "Prevention of Cruelty to Animals and Welfare of Animals Act, 2014. I am surprised that no one has seen fit to mention this Act, let alone suggest that it may have been overlooked during the determining process as to the "legitimacy" of opening a new dolphinarium. Under this Act, Section 17, it was made a criminal offence, punishable by up to 2 years imprisonment and/or a 40,000฿ fine, to "inflict a cruelty" on any animal included under this Act. Under Section 3 of the Act, "Cruelty" was defined as being "any action or no action, that provides an animal physical or mental suffering, pain, illness, disability..." and under that same section the Act included " any animal - that is normally kept as a house animal.....or an animal kept for public entertainment...or kept for any other purpose" I pose this as an analogy. Say I own a donkey and daily I beat this donkey over the head with an iron bar, leaving welts and bruises. The fact of this daily act on my part may or may not have been seen by anyone, including the authorities. In any event, I have not been charged with "inflicting a cruelty" upon this donkey nor, of course, have I been convicted of any such offence. A question, to you, Mr. Fairfield.....is it your position that I have" not breached any codes up to this point" and thus deserve no public outcry? To the contrary, I say!! I certainly HAVE breached Section 17 of this Act and even though, for whatever reason....lack of knowledge or understanding of the Act, the responsible authorities have yet to take a formal action against me, I certain am deserving of condemnation from every person who has become aware of my depraved acts!! As justification for my continued efforts to make every effort to ensure that any and all "underlying laws" are considered, I can tell you that I am a firm believer in what was stated by a very intelligent man years ago "Those who have the privilege to know, have the duty to act" by which I understand it to mean, that if I know something to be WRONG, I have the duty to at least TRY to prevent or correct that wrong! Many may not have known, and indeed many, many more, may yet not comprehend the cruelty which is involved in enslaving such a creature as the dolphin or its cousins, those being any other cetacean! But surely, the educated public has a right to ASK that this issue be examined by knowlegeable persons, persons of law and persons who have studied cetacean nature and abilities. All that I ask of the news media, is that a) they pose relevant questions which arise from this knowledge, questions which I suggest would reasonably include asking for a public enquiry to be made as to the relevance of Thailand's Animal Protection law, which admirably was designed to provide protection for, at least certain animals! and they understand that, in order for us to speak openly, and on the record as to our opinions regarding this opening, they need to actually reach out to those activists from whom they claimed to have received no response to a request that we do so! Sincerely, Bruce H. Crocker While we don’t condone the captivity and exploitation of any animals for profit – or humans for that matter – we remind all that there are underlying “laws” that determine whether an operation is “legitimate” or otherwise. The dolphinarium has not breached any codes up to this point and thus deserves no public trial on legal grounds. - See more at: http://www.thephuketnews.com/opinion-phuket-dolphinarium-legitimacy-put-on-show-54674.php#sthash.eU2QZAYQ.dpuf While we don’t condone the captivity and exploitation of any animals for profit – or humans for that matter – we remind all that there are underlying “laws” that determine whether an operation is “legitimate” or otherwise. The dolphinarium has not breached any codes up to this point and thus deserves no public trial on legal grounds. - See more at: http://www.thephuketnews.com/opinion-phuket-dolphinarium-legitimacy-put-on-show-54674.php#sthash.eU2QZAYQ.dpuf While we don’t condone the captivity and exploitation of any animals for profit – or humans for that matter – we remind all that there are underlying “laws” that determine whether an operation is “legitimate” or otherwise. The dolphinarium has not breached any codes up to this point and thus deserves no public trial on legal grounds. - See more at: http://www.thephuketnews.com/opinion-phuket-dolphinarium-legitimacy-put-on-show-54674.php#sthash.eU2QZAYQ.dpuf NOTE: To assist the reader in better understanding the "cruelty" which, as I see it, is being inflicted on those animals, I have included a number of photos. Photos which include scaled depictions of both the "ACTUAL" home at Dolphin Bay Phuket, to which these 5 dolphins and 2 fur seals have been condemned and a fictional "humanitarium" with 5 adult confined therein. Each provides the same 'surface area" and, of course, there are no exit points in either, since leaving the "building" is not a choice for either animal. I also make reference to a belief that our difficulty in understanding and measuring the degree and depth of intelligence possessed by the dolphin (cetacean) is not due to any lack of intelligence on their part, but rather is due to a lack of our own. It has been said "I think, therefore I am". Well, every dolphin can say "WE think, therefore WE know WE are". We just haven't evolved sufficiently to be able to understand that truth yet! Before you cry "NUTS...he's NUTS", I might suggest that you visit http://www.cymascope.com/cyma_research/oceanography.html and consider the ramifications inherent in the findings described therein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tingtau Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Having just made my comment to Mr. Fairfield, I noticed, but was unable to remove the somewhat annoying repetition of those of his comments to which I referrred in my comment. I have no idea as to how or why they ended up near the bottom of my commentl, NOR could I find any way to delete them. If they actually do constitute a part of my comment which you vierw, I wish to advise (tongue in cheek) that their presence was neither asked nor called for and tthat they refused to remove themselves when asked. Please bear with these unwelcome guests...I am sure that it is solely due to a lack on my part of understanding the intricacies of posting to ThaiVisa forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tingtau Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Ill go and watch it before i make judgement. Armchair activists is actually spot on. Lots of them who would do nothing hands on. Just some likes and outrage on facebook is all they can muster. Well, Mr. Hansgruber! So "armchair activist" term is "spot on" is it?! Jolly good, pip, pip and tally ho, after those pesky foxes!! Seriously...what would you have us do? Become terrorists and run down to that damnable place and "blow it up", after of course having "hied" the captive animals to a refuge of safety? Form an army of demonstrators who could stand outside the premises and force every last ignorant or selfish idiot who wishes to see how a dolphin does "NOT LIVE" and/or go "oooh" and "aaahhh" at the sight of this intelligent animal forced to do "parlour tricks" in order to be fed dead fish like some "street beggar", to run a gauntlet of placards and hisses of "shame, shame, shame'? Or perhaps, you would have us organize marches to take place throughout the streets in front of the Bangkok Departmeht of Fisheries or in front of the Phuket Governor's residence in Phuket? Knowing all of that to be illegal...... or did you.... and would only result in our arrest and deportation from Thailand.....just what, Mr. Hansgruber, would you like to see us do. Give us a valid and legal "hands on" thing to do, other than what we are already doing....namely, trying to get the likes of you to join in wrting to every damn news media source we can; posting on Facebook in order to educate people as to the wrongfulness of allowing the existence of such places of slavery; trying our damndest to get the news media to ask questions which we feed to them, questions regarding Thailand's own law which prohibits the infliction of a cruelty upon any animal included under their "Prevention of Cruelty to Animals and Welfare of Animals Act, 2014. I try and remain polite whenever I reply to even the most infantile and stupid comments, but your comment, I admit frustrates me to no end for it forces me to recognize the true depth of 'misunderstanding", that some of the public whom we wish to educate have! No disrespect intended, but you, sir, appear to have just arrived at 'junior kindergarten' insofar as your knowledge as to what it is we do and face in our efforts to obtain freedom for the cetacean here in the Land of Smiles! Feel free to contact me through the "private messaging" capability which ThaiVisa forum provides....you could, properly informed become another ambassador for "those who cannot speak". A saying which, knowing now what I know concerning their true abiltiy at communication, would more correctly be put 'those who speak a thousand words with each picture they transmit...but we have not yet evolved the mental equipment to hear, let alone respond to them"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceKadet Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I think you scaled your "humanitarium" wrongly Tigtau. If you take into consideration the daily activities of cetaceans, your human enclosure should be much smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tingtau Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 (edited) Ill go and watch it before i make judgement. Armchair activists is actually spot on. Lots of them who would do nothing hands on. Just some likes and outrage on facebook is all they can muster. Come one Hans. Never mind how the training is done, but consider the size of the living conditions for an animal who swims 100s-1000s of km a year. That alone is called torture. Still wanna go? Yes ill go for sure. No point being outraged at something i havent experienced first hand. Mr. Hansgruber.....Do you really mean "no point in being outraged at something I havent experienced first hand"? I think that you may have misspoke yourself and that you meant 'no point in being.........................I haven't seen first hand", for I truly doubt that you would be willing to subject yourself to spending even one week, let alone a lifetime confined to the equivalent of what those dolphins are being imprisoned in!! .You obviously are unaware of the fact that dolphins average at least 100 kilometres of travel a day in their natural environment....this is impossible for them, confined as they are to this prison! You may not realize that dolphins communicate via 3-Dimensional pictures in their natural environment ....this they cannot do in little tanks like this Take a look at the photos which I am attaching and then tell me that you "must experience first hand" the cruelty which is inherent in that piddly little tank! Especially, knowing that in order for you to see these magnificent, intelligent creatures and satiate your need to "experience" what amounts to a depraved indifference being carried out inside that dolphin prison, you are giving money and therefore "support" to those people! Both the all too real Dolphin Bay Phuket tank and the fictional "Humanarium" place of confinement are approximately 340 square metres in surface area, the tank measuring slightly more than 20 metres in diameter and the "humanarium" measuring slightly over 21 m X 16 m. The depth of the tank is no more than 4 metres. Both the people and the dolphins (and 2 fur seals) are to scale! Edited November 5, 2015 by Tingtau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansgruber Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 (edited) Oh dear. Those photo shops and satellite imagery are hilarious. You could walk down there and take better photos and make a better argument. All the outrage from the comfort of a computer. The first satellite image is during construction. There is another pool house behind the main arena which again could be seen if you actually had the guts to go down there instead of using Google. Edited November 5, 2015 by hansgruber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon43 Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 @Tingtau, your 'passion' would be better used (IMHO), to campaign for the rights of millions of poor and destitute HUMANS, who have to survive from day to day in squalid and tiny accommodation, living in third-world slums. As for the Dolphinarium, I expect this to be a very popular attraction for the majority (==> Chinese) of foreign tourists who visit Phuket. Interfering with a project that can generate $$$ for local businesses (taxi drivers, tuk-tuks etc) is probably not a wise move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tingtau Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 I think you scaled your "humanitarium" wrongly Tigtau. If you take into consideration the daily activities of cetaceans, your human enclosure should be much smaller. 555 You are absolutely correct in your observation. Since the dolphin travels an average of 100 kilometres per day vs the average human male travels less than a 1/10th of that, one could argue for the enclosure in which the human should be imprisoned to be reduced to....I'll be generous and give them 40 sq. feet. One human wouldn't last out the month, let alone putting 5 into that size of an enclosure. I am so glad to see that there is at least one person that can appreciate the lunacy of this tank being considered as suitable for those dolphins. But, I still am unable to get even one editor of one newspaper to ask how, if the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act was considered, it was possible for that tank to be approved for even a "temporary enclosure" let alone as a "for the rest of their lives" abode. We opponents to this dolphin abusement centre caled the "Dolphin Bay Phuket dolphinarium have provided a great deal of material which literally stands up and 'BEGS" to be addressed.....but what is the result.....a deafening silence...a failure by any of the papers to respond to any requests ....not even one response to my reqiuest for them to contact me....a request in which I stated unequivocally that not one person has ever contacted me to ask my opinion but that I was ready and willing to go on the record with my opinion and "Hey....here I am....ask away...any venue you want...providing them with telephone number and email address.....not one contact, but they have the gall to tell their readers that....here's the Phuketwan's claim "Phuketwan has sought comments from several sources among groups and individuals who initially opposed the project. So far we have found no Dolphinarium opponents who still wish to speak on the record about their viewpoint” and yet they never once contacted mysellf or another cetacean activist, both of us whom I have absolutely no doubt but that they know not only of us, but how to contact us..in fact one person was interveiwed on a public Thai TV station several months ago. Someone suggested that the reason behind our 4th Estate's failure to print any material that could be adverse to this dolphinarium's interests could quite likely lie them having a pecuniary interest in this place succeeding! How else to explain the columns that were written just after the opening....columns in which they claimed they had received "glowing reports" from those who had attended and "the General Manager stated that ...venue was to present only a one-off premiere today, but demand saw a second show performed at 2pm" Not one word with respect to the existence of a law that prohibits "inflicting a cruelty"....not one word of this or the fact that some of the opponents felt that some form of enquiry should be made as to whether this Act was considered.....not by any one of them, and that includes this one in which I write my comment to you!! One has to wonder, with all of this....Is the failure due to the fact that this 4th Estate of ours is not acting in the interests of the public, but rather, has somehow been convinced that their "bread is buttered on what I consider to be the opposite side, that of the Russian consortium who are behind this enterprise!! In fact from what I have read and seen of them, the trailer trash cousin in this side of the world to Seaworld!! As you can easily tell, I am disgusted with every last one of these papers.....one of whose General Managers, said that he was busy all last week, but would look at all of the material provided to him and get back to me! Not one word from him!! Sorry for the rant...but when persons in a position such as our news media are, readily print glowing reports when they know there ae claims of a dark side; print what I believe to be spurious claims regarding the absence of any opposition willing to confirm opposition to the place, fail to make any effort to respond to or contact persons after the fact, who have access to information which points toward a violation of Thai law......!! The mind boggles..simply boggles. They can still correct the appearance of corruption which arises from all of this, but I'm not sure that they give a fig!! Maybe they have decided that having the face of corruption hasn't hurt the average mafia guy, so what the heck...."let's take the rubles" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon43 Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 2 comments: 1) Please learn how to use paragraphs - it is very difficult to read your rants 2) Understand that this is not Kansas - normal rules of business, ethics and morality simply do not apply. If you try to oppose this project by applying 'Western rules of engagement', you will get nowhere. You need to completely rethink your strategy of opposement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebruce Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Is this place still open ??? Hopefully it has closed down, and the Dolphins set free... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinginKata Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 20 minutes ago, robertthebruce said: Is this place still open ??? Hopefully it has closed down, and the Dolphins set free... Yes, sadly it seems to be still open ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 20 minutes ago, robertthebruce said: Is this place still open ??? Hopefully it has closed down, and the Dolphins set free... No idea how many visitors it is attracting, but it is for sure still open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebruce Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Ok...thanks for that.. probsbly Chinese Tourists , poor Animals...no life..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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