louse1953 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 This is not unique to Thailand, many countries outside the Western world have this policy. India, Costa Rica, the list goes on. Don't see it as a Thai problem. Well it's a Thai problem to me,as i am here.Luckily i have seen all the nice NP's,but no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FolkGuitar Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Visit Phowiang Dinosaur Museum on Sunday. Foreign 60 baht, thai 20 baht. I showed my tax-payer card and asked how much tax they payed, just to show my anger. Result: I did not enter the museum. I will never enter any sights that charge double and triple price for foreigners. It is not at all about the money, it is all about the racism behind the scheme. Wonderful exhibit. Too bad you missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FolkGuitar Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) One last note.... Please permit me to say 'Thank you' to all of you who refuse to visit the national parks. It really makes it just so much nicer for those of us who enjoy them. Be it a racist plot, a nationalistic purge, or just a way to make extra money for the Thais, frankly, I DON'T CARE. The extra few hundred baht is no skin off my nose compared with the enjoyment I get when visiting the various parks and attraction around the Kingdom. The fact that I've been living here for 15 years and paying a few bits extra for my pleasure is simply not a hardship to me. I'm sorry if it is to you. There are far more important things in life to pay attention to than looking for ways to be unhappy. The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude ABOUT the problem. What an arrogant post. Yep! Very. Please stay away from the national parks and attractions that charge more for foreigners than Thais. Your negative attitudes would bring everyone down. Those of us who choose to enjoy life rather than look for petty wars don't like being around people like you. It's just that simple. You bring us down. Edited October 28, 2015 by FolkGuitar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToddinChonburi Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Boycott the darn places, problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToddinChonburi Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Boycott the darn places, problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hml367 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 One last note.... Please permit me to say 'Thank you' to all of you who refuse to visit the national parks. It really makes it just so much nicer for those of us who enjoy them. Be it a racist plot, a nationalistic purge, or just a way to make extra money for the Thais, frankly, I DON'T CARE. The extra few hundred baht is no skin off my nose compared with the enjoyment I get when visiting the various parks and attraction around the Kingdom. The fact that I've been living here for 15 years and paying a few bits extra for my pleasure is simply not a hardship to me. I'm sorry if it is to you. There are far more important things in life to pay attention to than looking for ways to be unhappy. The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude ABOUT the problem. What an arrogant post. Yep! Very. Please stay away from the national parks and attractions that charge more for foreigners than Thais. Your negative attitudes would bring everyone down. Those of us who choose to enjoy life rather than look for petty wars don't like being around people like you. It's just that simple. You bring us down. More arrogance if you are referring to me. Please tell me where I made any negative comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FolkGuitar Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 ... and yet, you don't see the irony of your post, do you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broeno Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Sinds a few years a don,t go in to dubbele pricespd parks. Sometimes i tell them that they discriminate, show them my Thai family and ask if they feel oké stealing from them. Sometimes they let me in for a Thai price. Most of the time not and turn around. Wish more and more farang turn at the gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattayaPhom Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Even having a WP licence etc I gave up visiting anywhere like this 10 years ago. I remember a Foreign teacher on a gap year, working legally and paying taxes in that province, pulled up on an old moped as that's all he could afford, in debt up to his eyeballs at home but was charged 10 times that of a Bangkokian that pulled up in a 5 Mil Merc. Its blatant theft whatever way its dressed up as. Some local authorities/states give concessions to their local residents in other countries around the world but this is blanket thievery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mydee Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) This is not unique to Thailand, many countries outside the Western world have this policy. India, Costa Rica, the list goes on. Don't see it as a Thai problem. Two tier pricing isn't confined to Thailand and it isn't a Thai problem at all. For example To renew my passport in Bangkok the Australian Government is going to sting me 200 dollars more than it would cost to have it renewed in Australia. If they decide I am a non resident Australian taxpayer I lose a tax rebate of $6000 p.a.I have to pay to visit Ularu National Park in central Australia, the traditional people don't - I too feel discriminated against-This puts the couple of bucks extra I have to pay here occasionally in perspective. In any case many of these shrines and places of interest have been maintained by the Thai people for many years and hold special significance for them. Keeping the price low for Thais and stinging the foreign visitor seems like a good idea to me. In fact it might deter the foreigners who disrespect places the Thais treated with reverence such as the Temple of the Emerald Buddha or at least help offset the costs of providing shawls and wraps for the western women who choose to visit the wat half naked. However the self righteous ex patriots seem to see two tiered pricing as a violation of their human rights. In the context of the treatment of Afro Americans, Australian Aborigines Jews and the Irish it is trivial. My advice is not to go to these places if you aren't prepared to pay the entrance fee- no one forces you to. Edited October 28, 2015 by mydee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realenglish1 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 This will get no were just not going . You need to write a letter to the Ministry of Tourism about your distance for the double standard here. If they want a 2 level system then it should be RESIDENCE and Non Residence Then there would be no room for debate, The Ministry of Tourism have their head up their hole. No understanding of Tourism at all Here is there address Spend 3 baht and write a letter showing your distaste for this policy and how it should be chancge Ministry of Tourism and Sports 4 Ratchadamnoen nok Road, Watsomanas, Pom Prap Sattru Phai, Bangkok 10100 If they get enough letters I am sure they will look at the policy . Right now Thais really do not care and are not going to write a letter on Farangs behalf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattayaPhom Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 This is not unique to Thailand, many countries outside the Western world have this policy. India, Costa Rica, the list goes on. Don't see it as a Thai problem. Windsor castle in the U.K. is about £15.....Thais and other foreigners should therefor pay a whopping £150 each by your thinking its not a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mydee Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 This will get no were just not going . You need to write a letter to the Ministry of Tourism about your distance for the double standard here. If they want a 2 level system then it should be RESIDENCE and Non Residence Then there would be no room for debate, The Ministry of Tourism have their head up their hole. No understanding of Tourism at all Here is there address Spend 3 baht and write a letter showing your distaste for this policy and how it should be chancge Ministry of Tourism and Sports 4 Ratchadamnoen nok Road, Watsomanas, Pom Prap Sattru Phai, Bangkok 10100 If they get enough letters I am sure they will look at the policy . Right now Thais really do not care and are not going to write a letter on Farangs behalf Thank you I will write congratulating the Ministry on setting prices at a level that will allowed impoverished Thais to visit them and urge them to maintain the status quo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas33399 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I went to Phu Hin Rong Kla national park last weekend. I found it difficult to believe the admission prices. They were 30 baht for Thais and 500 Baht for foreigners. I found this really upsetting. This park would be rarely visited by foreign tourists as it is in a remote location in Loei, Phitsanulok and Petchabun provinces so the only farang forced to pay this price would be foreigners living in and paying tax in Thailand. The sign made it difficult to realise what the price was for Thais if you did not read Thai. They had a separate sign with the price for foreigners so a comparison could not be made easily. I know this country does not operate democratically and the rulers operate in a very autocratic fashion but this is ridiculous. 500 Baht is a prohibitively expensive and extortionate price thus forcing foreigners who live here to either be ripped off or be unable to visit national parks. There must be a way that we as foreigners living in Thailand can voice our disagreement about this obscene level of discrimination. If a farang can show a work permit thus showing they are being paid a Thai wage and paying taxes or if they have a visa showing they live here then they should be entitled to pay the Thai price. Perhaps we could create an online petition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FolkGuitar Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 This will get no were just not going . You need to write a letter to the Ministry of Tourism about your distance for the double standard here. If they want a 2 level system then it should be RESIDENCE and Non Residence Then there would be no room for debate, The Ministry of Tourism have their head up their hole. No understanding of Tourism at all Here is there address Spend 3 baht and write a letter showing your distaste for this policy and how it should be chancge Ministry of Tourism and Sports 4 Ratchadamnoen nok Road, Watsomanas, Pom Prap Sattru Phai, Bangkok 10100 If they get enough letters I am sure they will look at the policy . Right now Thais really do not care and are not going to write a letter on Farangs behalf I'm quite confident that the twenty or so letters from all foreigners who actually give a damn about this situation will change policy to their liking. Unfortunately, there will be a few who refuse to send letters, complaining about having to spend 3 baht for the stamp.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Currumbin Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Last week my useless Kenwood GPS tried to take me from Korat to Pattaya via Bangkok. I reset the GPS for Kabin Buri so as to get back on the right road. It took me to the entrance of Khao Yai National Park. I checked my inaccurate Thai map and it looked as I was on track. When I approached the ticket booth the car in front of me was driven by a Thai man travelling alone. He handed the attendant a 100 baht bill and received 40 baht back. When I drove up to the booth the female asked me if I was travelling alone to which I replied that I was. She said "450 baht". I made a U turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinL Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 The large majority of resident expats do NOT contribute to the upkeep nor maintenance of the parks. Why should we get to pay as little for entry as those who do? Granted, the sign shouldn't read "Correct Skin Color Required," but with just a little bit of thought, we really do understand what is trying to be done here... unless one is really paranoid that the Thais are out to fleece foreigners. Personally, I don't think that's the case. If we want to play, we need to pay. Either though taxes or through higher entry fees. If by "... resident expats do NOT contribute to the upkeep .... of the parks" you mean by way of INCOME tax, then I can't argue with that but everyone living in (& visiting) Thailand pays other taxes as appropriate. I might also be able to agree with the next sentence, "Why should we get to pay as little for entry as those who do?", but then I have to ask why should ALL those who do not pay INCOME tax not have to pay higher rate entrance fees? But we all know this isn't about whether or not an individual pays income tax. Many non-working foreigners living here (of whom I'm one) might have a working, income tax-paying spouse - my wife pays her income tax every month, without fail and has done so for the last 30+ years. I know Thai people whose Thai spouses have never worked or paid income tax. The non-working foreign spouse has to pay higher entry fees. The non-working Thai spouse does not. "If we want to play, we need to pay. Either through taxes or through higher entry fees". Totally agree and I think most people wouldn't have any issue with that but it comes with a qualification; if differential prices are going to continue to be government-approved in Thailand, then let ALL income tax payers (regardless of nationality) have a lower entrance fee than ALL those who do not pay income tax (maybe with concessions for kids, old folks etc., again regardless of nationality). Wouldn't that be more reasonable? But it introduces problems of determining into which category each visitor falls. So it's far easier to base it all on Thai or non-Thai nationality with a bit of 'if your face fits' thrown in. It should also be remembered that resident foreigners must be able to show a monthly income for their extensions of stay, whether as a salary from abroad, pensions, dividends etc. That's all 'free money' for Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMKiwi Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 This will get no were just not going . You need to write a letter to the Ministry of Tourism about your distance for the double standard here.If they want a 2 level system then it should be RESIDENCE and Non Residence Then there would be no room for debate, The Ministry of Tourism have their head up their hole. No understanding of Tourism at all Here is there address Spend 3 baht and write a letter showing your distaste for this policy and how it should be chancge Ministry of Tourism and Sports 4 Ratchadamnoen nok Road, Watsomanas, Pom Prap Sattru Phai, Bangkok 10100 If they get enough letters I am sure they will look at the policy . Right now Thais really do not care and are not going to write a letter on Farangs behalf. I do like your idea in changing the wording from Thai to Resident and Foreigner to non-resident. That I think would make it more fair in some respects. Therefore those that choose to live here can enjoy the country with out being overly (Or overtly) penalised. Whereas the extra fee from non-resident (Tourists) goes in some ways to the upkeep of such places. I haven't been back to NZ for about 5 years so I am unsure of the park fee policies in place. I do remember there being some backlash when the Dept of Conservation (DOC) looked at increasing fees across the board for both tourists and kiwis. Many were angry in that what use to be free in that you could enter any national park as a right was being slowly but surely eroded. Many tracks and huts are now fully booked by visiting tourists with no space for the resident New Zealanders. This in turn caused resentment. As a result DOC was looking also at the tier system. One price for residents and another for tourists. I'm unsure which path was taken however can understand arguments from both sides. One of the NZ politicians of past came up with the saying "User pays" which seems to stick to most things these days. But then when is it OK versus a blatant rip off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike324 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I would not argue over 100 baht, its peanuts! but for prices such as 300 baht and up as an entrance fee for a place that is hardly maintain or offers no facilities, yes its a big rip off so I just simply avoid. As others have said, in the US if you are local resident or in state resident, you tend to get discount prices for entrance in many places such as aquariums, galleries and some parks. Some museums are even free for locals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David in the north Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I agree with the OP - I just will not pay it. Someone has commented here that expats do not pay tax - I disagree - I have bought two expensive cars here, two expensive motorcycles, I buy all my clothes, fuel, anything I need here so we DO pay taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mipen Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I have successfully used my tax card in the past. But that was many year ago. Have contacts now, so get into our local park for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaidream Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 The issue is not about Thai or anti Thai- It is about fairness. I refuse to pay a foreigner price or any different price that a local person pays. It works the same wherever I go. In addition, when I shop at a local market I pay the same as a Thai pays or I don't buy I am not mad or irritated- I just vote with my feet. Their loss- not mine. If someone would ask me why I do this I will tell them in a rational non confrontational way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beng Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 This is not unique to Thailand, many countries outside the Western world have this policy. India, Costa Rica, the list goes on. Don't see it as a Thai problem. It is done to the tourists in Hawaii as well. I find it hard to believe that a non native resident of Hawaii, one with a local issued state ID, is charged more based on their skin color and race. No one really has a problem with residents v tourist prices for attractions. The problem is when the resident is defined by skin color alone (my Khmer ex who couldnt speak one word of Thai was routinely given the Thai price) not based on residency but based on race. The large majority of resident expats do NOT contribute to the upkeep nor maintenance of the parks. Why should we get to pay as little for entry as those who do? Granted, the sign shouldn't read "Correct Skin Color Required," but with just a little bit of thought, we really do understand what is trying to be done here... unless one is really paranoid that the Thais are out to fleece foreigners. Personally, I don't think that's the case. If we want to play, we need to pay. Either though taxes or through higher entry fees. Foreigners with work permit pay taxes here plus the higher fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beng Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 Not this old moan yet again! That said, the photo in the OP's post indicates, on the surface at least, that discrimination is not all one way: in Thai, on the left, the charge for a 'four-wheeled motor vehicle' is 100 baht. The charge for what is stated on the right in English simply as 'vehicles' is, however, only 30 baht. I KNOW, DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beng Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 We simply vote with our feet and walk away. When we have guests we point them in the direction of a friendly travel agent who can take them to all the attractions that are overpriced for foreign visitors but nevertheless packaged together are of a reasonable price. We tell them we will not be going and why and it is their choice to go or not. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gracas Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 As far as National Parks go it does not bother me that they allows Thais to enter and enjoy the Park at a reduced rate. Parks need upkeep (no matter how good or bad they are maintained). However if there was Dual Pricing to go to the Cinema, Ride the BTS or a Bus then I would have a problem with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiengmaijoe Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Visit Phowiang Dinosaur Museum on Sunday. Foreign 60 baht, thai 20 baht. I showed my tax-payer card and asked how much tax they payed, just to show my anger. Result: I did not enter the museum. I will never enter any sights that charge double and triple price for foreigners. It is not at all about the money, it is all about the racism behind the scheme. This policy is disrespectful to foreigners who live here in that they are being singled out for no just reason, but having said that, you still have to put it into context. Paying 60b to enter a park is a trivial amount, and probably represents good value for money, so spoiling a day out in that case would be a bit pointless, in my opinion. I just googled the place you mentioned and it looks well worth 60b of anyone's money. In the rare instances in the last few years that my work permit has not been accepted to give me the 'local' price I have still paid the foreigner's rate, for one of two reasons - firstly because the amount was not excessive and was still value for money or secondly, because I didn't want to spoil a day out with family and friends by moaning and complaining. I don't mind arguing the point here, but arguing with a park official who has no say in the matter or sitting on a high horse during a fun day out is not going to achieve anything. If I am out with the family and I am singled out to pay more, then as a husband, father and grand-father of the people with me I think it shows disrespect for me, and it should be an embarrassment to everyone responsible for creating and implementing the rule, but it would never be enough to spoil a day out. Life is too short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpatOilWorker Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I haven't been to a national park for years. Have I missed anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beng Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 Having visited many National Parks in Thailand, I think you are using the wrong logic to justify pricing the parks the same for Thai and for foreigners. Thais should have the same right to visit the parks the same as foreigners, but if everyone paid the "Thai" price then there would not be enough money to maintain the parks and they would be rundown and not very desirable to foreigners anyway. The other side is if all Thai had to pay the "Farang" price, then most Thais could not afford to visit the park and they would become an "Elitist" enclave for only the wealthy (comparatively speaking). Dual pricing systems absolutely exist in the USA. I live in California and you can get discounts to many Attractions by having a local drivers license whereas you would have to pay full price if you don't and I do not see any difference between that and the pricing at Thai NPs. I have a Thai fiancee and I have traveled to many national parks with her family paying the Thai price because we were all together and no Thai park ranger can out talk my fiancee or her sisters. So there are ways to work the system, but in general I just want to make sure the parks are well protected and cared for and the higher price should not be a burden for either the Thai or others to enjoy. The 'tourist pay more' policy was introduced not that long ago, in the mid - late 90's. They were well able to upkeep the parks before that date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louse1953 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Thought the Thai Driver License you pay same guess not TIT I wonder if, instead of a Thai Driver's License, you had shown a Thai Work Permit? As a worker in Thailand, you pay Thai taxes. As a retired expat you don't. I can understand the desire to charge more to those who don't contribute to the upkeep of the park. When I had my business here in Chiang Mai, I would always bring my Work Permit booklet with me when we went to National Parks. Always paid the same rate as the Thais. Never any questions about it. It's the same as a Resident Fishing License or Resident Hunting License being much less expensive than the Non-Resident ones, sometimes hundreds of dollars less. Or charging a higher tuition for classes in a state-run educational facility to someone from out of state. These are normal charges in most countries, but for some reason, folks here think that there is something unusual about them. If you help pay for the maintenance of the parks through taxes, you 'shouldn't' have to pay. If you do, then something is indeed wrong with the system. But just showing a Drivers License doesn't prove you are contributing to the system. It only means you live here. Times are a changing FG,so you will pay through the nose now,WP or not.By the way whats this 7% i have been paying all these years,if not a tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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