National Park Experience

[Jonmarleesco]

The issue is that, however you try to dress it up, it isn't about discounts based on status or age; it's about premium pricing based on nationality. That is racism. And it is aimed at foreign nationals, whether resident in Thailand, or visiting, so arguments about it being the Thais' country are irrelevant - if ever they were relevant - not to say disingenuous. And pricing at five times the Thai rate is not just excessive, it's inane in a country where one of the main industries is tourism.

Of course, membership of Asean will likely lead to changes, but not for visitors from outside of the grouping. The government needs to take steps to address the issue.

[Fairynuff]

Why should foreigners in Thailand - mostly farang with 2-3x purchasing power of local population be allowed to pay the same price as Thais?

The locals are likely spending 1/3rd of a day's wages to bring their family to the park, and as a farang who can easily afford the higher entrance fee, why would you expect to pay the same price as them?

If everyone paid the same price, Thais and foreigners alike, the prices would inevitably increase faster than the local consumer could afford.

Oh yes, how silly of me, I completely forgot that there are no rich Thai people. All the big cars and big houses are foreign owned. All the huge companies in Thailand are owned by foreigners.i should remind myself of that when I spend time with my Thai friends who have the kind of money I'll only ever have in my dreams

[Fairynuff]

The issue is that, however you try to dress it up, it isn't about discounts based on status or age; it's about premium pricing based on nationality. That is racism. And it is aimed at foreign nationals, whether resident in Thailand, or visiting, so arguments about it being the Thais' country are irrelevant - if ever they were relevant - not to say disingenuous. And pricing at five times the Thai rate is not just excessive, it's inane in a country where one of the main industries is tourism.

Of course, membership of Asean will likely lead to changes, but not for visitors from outside of the grouping. The government needs to take steps to address the issue.

Finally!!! Someone who gets its it!! Or are you really just like me, a miserable cheap farang who likes nothing better than complaining?

[Chiengmaijoe]

There are two categories of posters here. Those who can't/won't accept discrimination and overcharging and see it as wrong. Then there are those who choose to ignore those facts and see it as purely about the few baht.

For my part the money is totally irrelevant whether it's 2 baht or 2,000 baht,no difference. It's about right and wrong, no more no less. Discrimination is always wrong whatever the context and wherever it happens.

Sure, life is black and white. Everything is right or wrong, people are all good or all bad, stupid or clever, nothing in-between.

There are lots of different categories of posters on here.

Open your eyes Fairy. 'Nuff said.

My eyes are wide open and yet I still can't see how your response is any way relevant to my post. I'm sure you know what you mean but all I see is an attempt to snipe at me. Whatever....

It's not that difficult. You tried to simplify the matter by saying there are only two categories of posters and I pointed out that there are more.

[wvavin]

No body is happy about discrimination but here is Thailand and you are in a foreign land. If you don't feel happy about it, just leave the place as nobody forces you to visit ant places otherwise pay an extra 80 baht. Please don't feel offended for those whom have experienced this as I am merely stating the reality on this land.

[FolkGuitar]

The Thai dual pricing policy is still a HECK of a lot cheaper than you would pay in many other countries that also have dual pricing policies. Yet Farangs still complain. **sigh**

Some people refuse to understand it is not the price,it's the principle.I don't double park,i don't force other cars off the road because it's wrong,same as charging two entrance fees. It's just plain wrong,what ever country it happens in.

Do you feel that it is your responsibility to convince foreign governments that they are wrong? Are you open to the possibility that the foreign government in question doesn't consider its policy as 'wrong,' despite your opinion? It makes little difference who else agrees with your opinion if the government in question does not. Perhaps in your own country the government wants to hear from you. I sincerely doubt this local government does.

[Spaniel]

I'm with the op here 100% and congrat you sir on turning your back. I would have done the same.

It's a basic question of principle no Thai will ever understand and those sycophantic do-gooders here that quote lame excuses of taxes and "the" ability to aid the environment are in a pseudo place i will never join.

Taxes are a 'lame' excuse? Where do you suppose that the money to maintain the parks comes from? Are you paying the workers there to maintain the trails and clean up the trash? Did they ask YOU to donate any? I know they didn't ask me... EXCEPT when I was working and paying Thai taxes. And then I paid the same entry fee as the Thais. TNSTAAFL.

Judging from your 101st Airborne Division patch, I'll assume you are American. Do you realize that in America Senior Citizens are eligible for a LIFETIME PASS to over 2,000 national parks and attractions for just $10. Younger folks will have to pay from $17 to $29 EVERY TIME just to enter the parks. Isn't this Age Discrimination a terrible thing too? And in America, no less! In 2012 the entry fees to some of Thailand's most popular parks rose by 25% for foreigners and 150% for Thais. I wonder if the Thais went crying to their mommies that the government was being nicer to farang than to Thais? Thirty dollars to enter Yellowstone, and some farang bitch about paying $3... It's so ridiculous it makes me squint.

Just to set the record straight the entrance fee to enter Yellowstone is $25 for a private noncommercial vehicle and that is for a 7 day permit. $20 for a motorcycle and $12 for each visitor entering on foot. I was there in September and got in for free as I have the Senior Citizen Lifetime Pass.

I don't like the two tier pricing system at the parks. My Thai wife and I go to the parks several times a year on camping trips mainly to Khao Yai and Doi Inthanon and most time I get in for the Thai price by showing my Thai drivers liscense and letting my wife do the talking. Most recently I entered the Erawan NP back in August for the Thai price. I think a lot depends on how nicely you talk to the gate attendant.

[STUDMEYER]

I'm grateful for the heads up on the increased fees.

The other 7 pages of progressive, soapbox belly aching is annoying.

Rgs

SM

[Fairynuff]

There are two categories of posters here. Those who can't/won't accept discrimination and overcharging and see it as wrong. Then there are those who choose to ignore those facts and see it as purely about the few baht.

For my part the money is totally irrelevant whether it's 2 baht or 2,000 baht,no difference. It's about right and wrong, no more no less. Discrimination is always wrong whatever the context and wherever it happens.

Sure, life is black and white. Everything is right or wrong, people are all good or all bad, stupid or clever, nothing in-between.

There are lots of different categories of posters on here.

Open your eyes Fairy. 'Nuff said.

My eyes are wide open and yet I still can't see how your response is any way relevant to my post. I'm sure you know what you mean but all I see is an attempt to snipe at me. Whatever....

It's not that difficult. You tried to simplify the matter by saying there are only two categories of posters and I pointed out that there are more.

In the context of this thread, the only context that is relevant, there are two categories, those who think it's right and those who think it's wrong. Unless of course you think it's a little bit right or a little bit wrong, in which case I agree with you there are more categories. But I'd leave that discussion for the classroom

[luk AJ]

There are two categories of posters here. Those who can't/won't accept discrimination and overcharging and see it as wrong. Then there are those who choose to ignore those facts and see it as purely about the few baht.

For my part the money is totally irrelevant whether it's 2 baht or 2,000 baht,no difference. It's about right and wrong, no more no less. Discrimination is always wrong whatever the context and wherever it happens.

Sure, life is black and white. Everything is right or wrong, people are all good or all bad, stupid or clever, nothing in-between.

There are lots of different categories of posters on here.

Open your eyes Fairy. 'Nuff said.

My eyes are wide open and yet I still can't see how your response is any way relevant to my post. I'm sure you know what you mean but all I see is an attempt to snipe at me. Whatever....

It's not that difficult. You tried to simplify the matter by saying there are only two categories of posters and I pointed out that there are more.

In the context of this thread, the only context that is relevant, there are two categories, those who think it's right and those who think it's wrong. Unless of course you think it's a little bit right or a little bit wrong, in which case I agree with you there are more categories. But I'd leave that discussion for the classroom

Waaw!

[FolkGuitar]

Sure, life is black and white. Everything is right or wrong, people are all good or all bad, stupid or clever, nothing in-between.

There are lots of different categories of posters on here.

Open your eyes Fairy. 'Nuff said.

My eyes are wide open and yet I still can't see how your response is any way relevant to my post. I'm sure you know what you mean but all I see is an attempt to snipe at me. Whatever....

It's not that difficult. You tried to simplify the matter by saying there are only two categories of posters and I pointed out that there are more.

In the context of this thread, the only context that is relevant, there are two categories, those who think it's right and those who think it's wrong. Unless of course you think it's a little bit right or a little bit wrong, in which case I agree with you there are more categories. But I'd leave that discussion for the classroom

How about those of us who feel its neither right nor wrong. It just 'is,' and we're comfortable with that?

[Fairynuff]

I don't believe discrimination is ever right so I'd never be comfortable with that, whether it's me or someone else being discriminated against.

[FolkGuitar]

I don't believe discrimination is ever right so I'd never be comfortable with that, whether it's me or someone else being discriminated against.

Can you understand that not everyone sees it as 'discrimination?'

[MESmith]

I don't believe discrimination is ever right so I'd never be comfortable with that, whether it's me or someone else being discriminated against.

Can you understand that not everyone sees it as 'discrimination?'

Most do

[LivinLOS]

This is not unique to Thailand, many countries outside the Western world have this policy. India, Costa Rica, the list goes on. Don't see it as a Thai problem.

Yes but other countries use ID car and not race to charge the dual price.

Any Asian-Canadian or Asian-American that go in with a group of Thai will be charged the Thai price. !

Any Chinese inside a group of Thai in a car ....Thai price.

They just look in the car and see Asian face and that the only proof of Thai citizenship they need at the Park entrance.

As long as they use race to implement the dual pricing ...Visitor should keep complaining about it !

Is it true that Chinese and other asian people pay the Thai price?? Can somebody confirm? If so, it's indeed racism. To all the people on this forum who don't care that Foreigners pay xx times the Thai price I wanted to ask how they would react if tomorrow all highway tolls would be increased xxx times only for foreigners? Same same but different?

I can confirm that my khmer ex who couldnt speak thai, could go up to the ticket booths and buy a ticket in english at the Thai price.. That was nat parks, attractions, the zoo etc..

I was able with a Thai DL and some low level Thai language sweet talk a thai price about 50% of the time.. That was back 2 years ago before things tightened up.

So clearly given that experiemnt the results say the thai price was given on race, or asian localism not residency or thai rights.

[LivinLOS]

No body is happy about discrimination but here is Thailand and you are in a foreign land. If you don't feel happy about it, just leave the place as nobody forces you to visit

I am not a visitor.. I live here.. I have lived here for 1/3rd of my life..

Constantly being reminded your an outsider and connot ever integrate is unpleasant..

Contrast to my brothers Thai wife, who on arrival to the uk recieved free language and cultural classes, now holds a passport, votes, has no restricted professions, will get benefits if she needed them, healthcare and a pension... and has saved up enough in a few years working there to buy 3 houses here..

And then people will say 'how hard it is for Thais to travel'..

[LivinLOS]

I think a lot depends on how nicely you talk to the gate attendant.

I think this was the case until 6 months ago.. since the the boss of the national parks has come out with this edict, its passed to all the parks, and the local leniancy has decreased..

Another win for the Junta.

[LivinLOS]

I don't believe discrimination is ever right so I'd never be comfortable with that, whether it's me or someone else being discriminated against.

Can you understand that not everyone sees it as 'discrimination?'

Suggest looking at a dictionary then..

Discrimination is treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing is perceived to belong to rather than on individual merit.

Dont see how that can be avoided..

[tomyumchai]

I take exception when people try to play the race card over a minor economic inconvenience. I think people overuse the term racism. It is one thing for a race of people who have been enslaved, abused, denigrated, economically and socially disadvantaged to use the race card. It is something else for a white guy with a multitude of advantages to cry racism while trying to lord over the peasants in a developing country. All this over a few hundred baht is unbelievable.

Some of the parks are beautiful and paid staff are required to keep them that way. They try to keep it affordable for the locals to instill national pride and charge an inconsequentially higher fee for tourist who typically expect more facilities and higher standard of infrastructure.

what a load of apologetic crap! i toured last year and stayed in 18 national parks, either at the thai price or for free in a few. if they try the 'you whitey, you pay more' shit with me it will be '<deleted> you somchai, you can shove it'.

and in every park i visited ill guarantee you that i caused the least envoiromental damage and probably removed more litter than all of the thais that had gone there that year.

i dont give a fig about 100bt, its peanuts, but i wont pay more because im white. full stop.

[Robert24]

Right conclusion. Just don't visit National parks where you have to pay entrance fee. There are things you can't change here. No point to get upset. Move on. By the way there are also night clubs with dual entrance fee. Same there, either accept or go somewhere else.

[nemrut]

Why should foreigners in Thailand - mostly farang with 2-3x purchasing power of local population be allowed to pay the same price as Thais?

The locals are likely spending 1/3rd of a day's wages to bring their family to the park, and as a farang who can easily afford the higher entrance fee, why would you expect to pay the same price as them?

If everyone paid the same price, Thais and foreigners alike, the prices would inevitably increase faster than the local consumer could afford.

Oh yes, how silly of me, I completely forgot that there are no rich Thai people. All the big cars and big houses are foreign owned. All the huge companies in Thailand are owned by foreigners.i should remind myself of that when I spend time with my Thai friends who have the kind of money I'll only ever have in my dreams

What percentage of the population are rich Thais and are those the one's that frequent the national parks?

The number of farang living in Thailand who enjoy 2-3x purchasing power of most Thais while taking advantage of the country's infrastructure and paying no taxes far exceeds the number of rich Thais, let alone those frequenting national parks.

[chickenrunCM]

Thought the Thai Driver License you pay same guess not TIT

I wonder if, instead of a Thai Driver's License, you had shown a Thai Work Permit? As a worker in Thailand, you pay Thai taxes. As a retired expat you don't. I can understand the desire to charge more to those who don't contribute to the upkeep of the park. When I had my business here in Chiang Mai, I would always bring my Work Permit booklet with me when we went to National Parks. Always paid the same rate as the Thais. Never any questions about it.

It's the same as a Resident Fishing License or Resident Hunting License being much less expensive than the Non-Resident ones, sometimes hundreds of dollars less. Or charging a higher tuition for classes in a state-run educational facility to someone from out of state. These are normal charges in most countries, but for some reason, folks here think that there is something unusual about them. If you help pay for the maintenance of the parks through taxes, you 'shouldn't' have to pay. If you do, then something is indeed wrong with the system. But just showing a Drivers License doesn't prove you are contributing to the system. It only means you live here.

what a pointless and stupid statement from you, how you can say by nationality who contribute more to thai tax system? a foreigner who stay 4 weeks in a hotel and spent lets say 200 USD in restaurants and shops, pay more tax than 50% of all thai in 1 year. and foreigner who live here for sure they spent more tax than 80% of all thais.

Its not about who pay tax, it is a discrimination by race and nationality.

Chargng somebody different price for the same product is a crime in western countrys if it is done by nationality. And there is no reason why a foreigner should pay more. National parks are built for Thais, to educate them about the country where they live. They are not built to entertain tourists.

[MESmith]

Why should foreigners in Thailand - mostly farang with 2-3x purchasing power of local population be allowed to pay the same price as Thais?

The locals are likely spending 1/3rd of a day's wages to bring their family to the park, and as a farang who can easily afford the higher entrance fee, why would you expect to pay the same price as them?

If everyone paid the same price, Thais and foreigners alike, the prices would inevitably increase faster than the local consumer could afford.

Oh yes, how silly of me, I completely forgot that there are no rich Thai people. All the big cars and big houses are foreign owned. All the huge companies in Thailand are owned by foreigners.i should remind myself of that when I spend time with my Thai friends who have the kind of money I'll only ever have in my dreams

What percentage of the population are rich Thais and are those the one's that frequent the national parks?

The number of farang living in Thailand who enjoy 2-3x purchasing power of most Thais while taking advantage of the country's infrastructure and paying no taxes far exceeds the number of rich Thais, let alone those frequenting national parks.

[SoiBiker]

Sigh. It's not racism, it's just economics.

http://www.pricingforprofit.com/pricing-explained/differential-pricing.php

Knock the chips off your shoulders, chaps. Still, you've got to laugh at anyone who'll drive for an hour and a half then just turn round and go home rather than spend a couple of dollars.

[LivinLOS]

Why should foreigners in Thailand - mostly farang with 2-3x purchasing power of local population be allowed to pay the same price as Thais?

The locals are likely spending 1/3rd of a day's wages to bring their family to the park, and as a farang who can easily afford the higher entrance fee, why would you expect to pay the same price as them?

If everyone paid the same price, Thais and foreigners alike, the prices would inevitably increase faster than the local consumer could afford.

Oh yes, how silly of me, I completely forgot that there are no rich Thai people. All the big cars and big houses are foreign owned. All the huge companies in Thailand are owned by foreigners.i should remind myself of that when I spend time with my Thai friends who have the kind of money I'll only ever have in my dreams

What percentage of the population are rich Thais and are those the one's that frequent the national parks?

The number of farang living in Thailand who enjoy 2-3x purchasing power of most Thais while taking advantage of the country's infrastructure and paying no taxes far exceeds the number of rich Thais, let alone those frequenting national parks.

The number of farang here far exceeds the number of well off or rich Thais ?? In a country of what ?? Almost 70 million... I seriously doubt that.

As to the 'no taxes'.. done that one already...

[FolkGuitar]

I don't believe discrimination is ever right so I'd never be comfortable with that, whether it's me or someone else being discriminated against.

Can you understand that not everyone sees it as 'discrimination?'

Most do

As my mother used to say ' if 'most' jumped off a cliff, does that make it correct to do?' Sorry, but I don't base my life on what 'others' think or believe.

[FolkGuitar]

No body is happy about discrimination but here is Thailand and you are in a foreign land. If you don't feel happy about it, just leave the place as nobody forces you to visit

I am not a visitor.. I live here.. I have lived here for 1/3rd of my life..

Constantly being reminded your an outsider and connot ever integrate is unpleasant..

Is someone forcing you to stay?

If I was as unhappy as you seem to be, I would have left long ago. But I like it here. I don't give a damn if I'm reminded that I'm an outsider. Fifteen years in Japan, and now fifteen years here in Thailand... Hell! I AM AN OUTSIDER! I don't find ANYTHING unpleasant about it. I've lived in Asia HALF of my life, and I love it. If I didn't, I'd leave. That makes a lot more sense than bitching and moaning about how you are treated, ESPECIALLY when you KNOW your complaints aren't going to change anything. That's patently absurd.

[SoiBiker]

Surely you're reminded you're an outsider every time you look in a mirror?

[Chiengmaijoe]

I take exception when people try to play the race card over a minor economic inconvenience. I think people overuse the term racism. It is one thing for a race of people who have been enslaved, abused, denigrated, economically and socially disadvantaged to use the race card. It is something else for a white guy with a multitude of advantages to cry racism while trying to lord over the peasants in a developing country. All this over a few hundred baht is unbelievable.

Some of the parks are beautiful and paid staff are required to keep them that way. They try to keep it affordable for the locals to instill national pride and charge an inconsequentially higher fee for tourist who typically expect more facilities and higher standard of infrastructure.

what a load of apologetic crap! i toured last year and stayed in 18 national parks, either at the thai price or for free in a few. if they try the 'you whitey, you pay more' shit with me it will be '<deleted> you somchai, you can shove it'.

and in every park i visited ill guarantee you that i caused the least envoiromental damage and probably removed more litter than all of the thais that had gone there that year.

i dont give a fig about 100bt, its peanuts, but i wont pay more because im white. full stop.

It's not about you being white, it is about being a Thai Citizen or non-Thai Citizen. It isn't racism either. My nephew was born in Thailand, was adopted at the age of two and raised in Canada. He is ethnically Thai but is now a Canadian citizen who speaks no Thai. The regulations state that since he is not a Thai citizen he should pay the foreigner's rate. If he went to a Thai national park with his Canadian friends he should and probably would end up paying the full amount because he would only see the sign in English and would only be able to speak/read English. Whether he could con his way into getting the Thai rate or whether they might mistake him as being a Thai National or not is irrelevant because the regulation is about Nationality, not race. Do Southern Muslim's, Northern hilltribe people, mixed-race Thai Nationals, or foreigners that have acquired Thai Citizenship get the Thai rate? I think so. I would be very surprised if any park staff ever said 'you whitey, you pay more', so I can only assume that is just you being a drama queen, or possibly being the consequence of you having read too many comics.

Your hypothetical response of '<deleted> you Somchai, you can shove it' doesn't do much to further your cause, in case you didn't know.

[Chiengmaijoe]

I don't like the two tier pricing system at the parks. My Thai wife and I go to the parks several times a year on camping trips mainly to Khao Yai and Doi Inthanon and most time I get in for the Thai price by showing my Thai drivers liscense and letting my wife do the talking. Most recently I entered the Erawan NP back in August for the Thai price. I think a lot depends on how nicely you talk to the gate attendant.

It has already been pointed out that it is nothing to do with having a driving licence or not, sweet-talking or not, there is a new directive. From the topic about Doi Inthanon ...... not much room for debate here...