National Park Experience

[LivinLOS]

But instead of charging more, giving Citizens and local Tax payers a Discount would go down better with me.

So instead of charging non-Thais more, you want to charge Thais less?

Surely that amounts to exactly the same thing?

Yeah I am OK with that..

As I have pointed out.. we are ALL taxpayers here.. the income tax element of Thai taxation is just a fraction, the average western resident contributes multiples in taxes than the average Thai but hey ho..

Malaysia has a similar residents card.. (as does Indo but thier pricing system is also grab what you can).. Government and tourist attractions have dual pricing but based clearly on where you live.. Tourists pay more, residents dont. Be they Indian Western Asian or whoever.. They have a more multicultural population and hence have set a system up.. Its fair.. It works.. I have no problem as a tourist in Malaysia paying the correct price as a visitor and if I went to malaysia and invested in the MM2H program and became legal there, I would have the exact same benefits.

So you're ok with discrimination as long as it doesn't affect you?

I am ok with resident v visitor pricing..

I am ok with taxpayer non taxpayer pricing..

I am ok with senior pricing..

I am ok with student pricing..

I am ok with unemployed, disabled, pricing..

I am not OK with adhoc nationalist pricing doubly so in a situation where almost no one can ever nationalize. It becomes hidden racial pricing.

[SoiBiker]

So you're ok with discrimination as long as it doesn't affect you?

I am ok with resident v visitor pricing..

I am ok with taxpayer non taxpayer pricing..

I am ok with senior pricing..

I am ok with student pricing..

I am ok with unemployed, disabled, pricing..

I am not OK with adhoc nationalist pricing doubly so in a situation where almost no one can ever nationalize. It becomes hidden racial pricing.

So like I said, you're ok with discrimination that doesn't effect you.

Fair enough. But don't pretend this is some sort of moral crusade.

[thai006]

in samet 3 year ago i pay 20 b thai price because i just speak thai and my family pay falang price

[spidermike007]

I'd like to see an organized and well-publicized boycott of national parks.

Charging visitors from other countries many times more than locals is greedy wherever it's done.

And my guess is that the boycott would be effective. If no foreigners showed up, the foreigner pricing would seem even more ridiculous than it already is. A few years back the government decreed that foreigners who live here and can prove it are entitled to access to national parks at the same rate as Thais. It was still difficult sometimes to get in at that price. But, at least we had the law on our sides. I guess Little P. has seen fit to eliminate that progressive policy.

[LivinLOS]

So you're ok with discrimination as long as it doesn't affect you?

I am ok with resident v visitor pricing..

I am ok with taxpayer non taxpayer pricing..

I am ok with senior pricing..

I am ok with student pricing..

I am ok with unemployed, disabled, pricing..

I am not OK with adhoc nationalist pricing doubly so in a situation where almost no one can ever nationalize. It becomes hidden racial pricing.

So like I said, you're ok with discrimination that doesn't effect you.

Fair enough. But don't pretend this is some sort of moral crusade.

They ALL effect me.. How are you missing that point.. They will effect EVERYBODY..

Of the above 5 statements only in one of them 'might' I get the discount.. I am argueing for a system where in 4.5 of those 5 choices I would be excluded. Fairly and clearly.

I am not argueing I must have a discount, the same as I pointed out when in Malaysia as a tourist I dont for one second argue thier fair system of measuring who is a local or not.

[Fairynuff]

For those of you who think I'm not happy here because I talk about discrimination, I'm not unhappy living here, I have a great life. I have always challenged discrimination, I did it back home and I do it here because it's wrong. If you're happy to be discriminated against then I'm happy with your choice, but I also think you're weird!

Excatly !!! Give that man a cigar..

This isnt about walking around with a scowl waving some colonial beating stick at the natives.. But some things are right and wrong.. Not 'just are'..

Animal cruelty is wrong, I react heavily when its seen and dont 'walk on by' (same as in the west btw).. I do my best to make ethical purchasing decisions.. I would aboslutely be involved if I thought I witnessed child abuse or other situations.. These things are not 'just cultural'.. I dont change my morals depending on where I am.

I dont agree with discrinatory practices and try to avoid supporting them.. I am the same when it comes to seeing how Thais discrinminate against Shan / Thai Yai / or immgrants.. I would absolutely not pay my burmese gardener less than a thai one simply because hes Burmese and I can abuse him and hes got less chances.. Thats not how a fair social system should be. when things are unfair or go against my beliefs, I oppose them.. thats how they change !!

If I was a smoker I'd share that cigar with you! So refreshing to see someone who gets the real issue...you stingy miserable ba***ard!!!

[Beng]

I'd like to see an organized and well-publicized boycott of national parks.

Charging visitors from other countries many times more than locals is greedy wherever it's done.

And my guess is that the boycott would be effective. If no foreigners showed up, the foreigner pricing would seem even more ridiculous than it already is. A few years back the government decreed that foreigners who live here and can prove it are entitled to access to national parks at the same rate as Thais. It was still difficult sometimes to get in at that price. But, at least we had the law on our sides. I guess Little P. has seen fit to eliminate that progressive policy.

The problem is, that many tourists book trips in advance ( packages containing airfares, accomodation, trips, etc.) and are simply not aware of the situation.

[Beng]

The purpose of my OP was to create awareness that a Thai DL is no longer good for us expats to pay the normal fee at NP's.

.

As expected, the replies show that some of us don't care to pay more, while others do.

I do not mind a 100 Baht more or less, but I do mind getting ripped off.

20 years ago the NP fee was equal for anyone, then tourists had to pay up to 10 times more and now all of us (regardless of working/paying taxes) pay the tourist fee.

This shows that the attitude towards foreigners has changed from equally welcome to welcome only when pay and now to who cares about foreign residents.

Certainly not right for a country relying heavily on tourism.

[SoiBiker]

I'd like to see an organized and well-publicized boycott of national parks.

Charging visitors from other countries many times more than locals is greedy wherever it's done.

And my guess is that the boycott would be effective. If no foreigners showed up, the foreigner pricing would seem even more ridiculous than it already is. A few years back the government decreed that foreigners who live here and can prove it are entitled to access to national parks at the same rate as Thais. It was still difficult sometimes to get in at that price. But, at least we had the law on our sides. I guess Little P. has seen fit to eliminate that progressive policy.

The problem is, that many tourists book trips in advance ( packages containing airfares, accomodation, trips, etc.) and are simply not aware of the situation.

Or are simply not bothered about having to pay a dollar or two extra.

[nemrut]

What percentage of the population are rich Thais and are those the one's that frequent the national parks?

The number of farang living in Thailand who enjoy 2-3x purchasing power of most Thais while taking advantage of the country's infrastructure and paying no taxes far exceeds the number of rich Thais, let alone those frequenting national parks.

May I suggest that you open your eyes and look around you

And what do you see...aspiration disguised as affluence? Many of the Thais sporting the latest fashion or smart phone are doing so on easy credit and up to their ears in debt.

Most Thais are still very poor by western standards and the number of genuinely 'rich' Thais are relatively few.

[nemrut]

How exactly does charging foreigner more than locals count as Racial Discrimination? It may be discrimination, but's it's not racial. Unless, of course, you believe that there is a race called "non-Thai".

In case you had not noticed, there are very many races other than Thai. These races are all being discriminated against, hence racial discrimination.

Now is that still too difficult for you to understand or would you like me list all those races in alphabetical order??????

Farangs whining about being charged 'few pennies' more in Thailand while proclaiming it's discriminatory really reveal the level of ignorance and sense of entitlement many of you have.

Most of you have no clue what it's like to be discriminated against your whole life yet you're now an authority on the matter because you're not being treated as 'the royalty' you believe yourself to be?

Don't think that Thais don't notice many of you walking around with smug satisfaction while showing your contempt for them and their culture.

You're lucky they've allowed you to live in their country despite much of your appalling, low-life behavior.

[nemrut]

I dont agree with discrinatory practices and try to avoid supporting them.. I am the same when it comes to seeing how Thais discrinminate against Shan / Thai Yai / or immgrants.. I would absolutely not pay my burmese gardener less than a thai one simply because hes Burmese and I can abuse him and hes got less chances.. Thats not how a fair social system should be. when things are unfair or go against my beliefs, I oppose them.. thats how they change !!

Much of what you take for granted and your very lifestyle is a result of exploitation. The very computer youre using was likely built by those exploited at very low costs. Is that not a form of discrimination as well?

Perhaps you should redirect you outrage to more pressing matters as it comes across as disingenuous and trivializes the issue.

[SoiBiker]

How exactly does charging foreigner more than locals count as Racial Discrimination? It may be discrimination, but's it's not racial. Unless, of course, you believe that there is a race called "non-Thai".

In case you had not noticed, there are very many races other than Thai. These races are all being discriminated against, hence racial discrimination.

Now is that still too difficult for you to understand or would you like me list all those races in alphabetical order??????

Farangs whining about being charged 'few pennies' more in Thailand while proclaiming it's discriminatory really reveal the level of ignorance and sense of entitlement many of you have.

Most of you have no clue what it's like to be discriminated against your whole life yet you're now an authority on the matter because you're not being treated as 'the royalty' you believe yourself to be?

Don't think that Thais don't notice many of you walking around with smug satisfaction while showing your contempt for them and their culture.

You're lucky they've allowed you to live in their country despite much of your appalling, low-life behavior.

Yep. See also the regular whining about being called a 'Farang'.

[FolkGuitar]

I'll answer your question, as it's a fair one...

As an American, I've chosen to live in foreign countries. I did so because I wanted to experience those countries. I didn't want to bring America with me. I didn't want to force those countries to change to meet American standards. I realized that I will never be a native of these countries, and that's OK. I didn't expect to be. I'm comfortable being a foreigner. Despite the rants of many people in ThaiVisa, I don't feel threatened by Thai culture, I don't feel that Thai culture 'targets' me for negative treatment. Nor do I feel that living within Thai culture negatively impacts my life in any way. If it did, I wouldn't stay in Thailand. Obviously, you feel differently, as you disagree with my position.

So your just fine with Chinese dog torture then ?? boiling them alive in oil and taking flaming torches to live dogs ??

That OK as you dont try to export your morals on them ??

Weak sauce..

If you need to put your own words into my mouth just to win your argument, you've already lost.

I have NEVER said that I am 'just fine with Chinese dog torture.' The fact is, I dislike all forms of animal cruelty.

But..... if that is an aspect of Thai culture that the Thais wish to maintain, it is NOT my place to force them to do otherwise. I simply will not join them in doing it. That is my ONLY option.

It is NOT my place to force my cultural preferences on anyone else. Nor is it yours. To do so is nothing more than Western arrogance, assuming your ideas are better than theirs.

Whether they are or are not is irrelevant. The fact that you assume they are most certainly is. Will your next step be insisting upon which God to whom they pray?

[Beng]

No Charge to visit the little railway station and the tunnel.

[spidermike007]

What percentage of the population are rich Thais and are those the one's that frequent the national parks?

The number of farang living in Thailand who enjoy 2-3x purchasing power of most Thais while taking advantage of the country's infrastructure and paying no taxes far exceeds the number of rich Thais, let alone those frequenting national parks.

May I suggest that you open your eyes and look around you

And what do you see...aspiration disguised as affluence? Many of the Thais sporting the latest fashion or smart phone are doing so on easy credit and up to their ears in debt.

Most Thais are still very poor by western standards and the number of genuinely 'rich' Thais are relatively few.

I agree wholeheartedly. And by making an assertion that those of us who are not working here, and are not paying taxes, are not benefitting the country financially, by being here, is ludicrous at best, and just plain wrong at worst. We may not pay taxes, but we spend a lot more money every month than the average Thai. And where is that money being spent? And who is benefitting from it? And does that not help the economy?

On no level do I feel one iota less entitled to paying the same entrance fee as the locals, due to the fact that I do not pay a relatively small amount of income tax here. I spend a small fortune every month here.

[nontabury]

This will get no were just not going . You need to write a letter to the Ministry of Tourism about your distance for the double standard here.

If they want a 2 level system then it should be RESIDENCE and Non Residence Then there would be no room for debate,

The Ministry of Tourism have their head up their hole. No understanding of Tourism at all Here is there address

Spend 3 baht and write a letter showing your distaste for this policy and how it should be chancge

Ministry of Tourism and Sports 4 Ratchadamnoen nok Road, Watsomanas, Pom Prap Sattru Phai, Bangkok 10100

If they get enough letters I am sure they will look at the policy . Right now Thais really do not care and are not going to write a letter on Farangs behalf

Thank you I will write congratulating the Ministry on setting prices at a level that will allowed impoverished Thais to visit them and urge them to maintain the status quo

I don't know you "mydee" but I think you've only lived in Thailand a short time, or perhaps you don't live here, so I will give you a bit of free information. Approximately 10% of Thais,again approximately 7,000,000 are far wealthier than the majority of Farangs, including one gentleman who is worth 7 billion US dollars. I wonder When these very wealthy Thai are in the queue next to you at a NP, they think to themselves " poor impoverished Farangs, why do we charge them 10 times more than us."

[Ricardo]

I'm fully in support of dual-pricing for national parks, etc. and wish that my own government did the same. I'm happy to pay an extra $2-$3. It's not racism it's simply shifting the burden of upkeeping tourist sites onto tourists. (And yes, even if you've been an expat here for 3 decades and are about to launch into an exciting lecture on how much tax you've paid - you're stil a tourist).

"I'm happy to pay an extra $2-$3"

And when it's an extra $10+ ?

And when it's not all tourists, but just foreign ones, plus foreigners who live here, but not people from say Bangkok, where everyone is rich too ?

And when it gives the country a reputation for being racist, still support it ?

Even if it were an extra $100. Locals aren't tourists - they're locals. They already pay into a system for all their lives which should be designed to benefit them as citizens. It only "gives the country a reputation for being racist' in the minds of pathetic skinflints - the kind of tourists that Thailand can now afford to live without.

Up to you, if you want to consider me as a "pathetic skinflint", but I will continue to believe that in-principle people from different countries are equal, and ought to be treated equally. For me it's mainly about human-rights, something I do feel strongly about.

You feel that "Locals aren't tourists", but I'm afraid the millions of domestic-visitors to Chiang Mai are tourists, they swarm up here in search of our cold weather every winter, and my family and I put much more into the local economy by living here than they do on a long-weekend visit.

Lastly you say that "they already pay into a system for all their lives", well I'm sorry but most of them don't pay income-tax, as you are no doubt aware. And your view that the system "should be designed to benefit them as citizens", well you ought to know that it really isn't. Thai society is a work-in-progress, like most other countries.

[CMKiwi]

How exactly does charging foreigner more than locals count as Racial Discrimination? It may be discrimination, but's it's not racial. Unless, of course, you believe that there is a race called "non-Thai".

In case you had not noticed, there are very many races other than Thai. These races are all being discriminated against, hence racial discrimination.

Now is that still too difficult for you to understand or would you like me list all those races in alphabetical order??????

Farangs whining about being charged 'few pennies' more in Thailand while proclaiming it's discriminatory really reveal the level of ignorance and sense of entitlement many of you have.

Most of you have no clue what it's like to be discriminated against your whole life yet you're now an authority on the matter because you're not being treated as 'the royalty' you believe yourself to be?

Don't think that Thais don't notice many of you walking around with smug satisfaction while showing your contempt for them and their culture.

You're lucky they've allowed you to live in their country despite much of your appalling, low-life behavior.

Now then Nemrut, I think it is you that has a bit of a grudge or psychological problem. I don't see how you can tie one persons perception of life in Thailand and then say things like many of us walk around smug and with contempt towards Thais and their culture.

What gives with that?

And I for one certainly don't display appalling low life behaviour.

Sure you can probably aim these comments at some individuals but please don't paint everybody with the same brush.

[nemrut]

May I suggest that you open your eyes and look around you

And what do you see...aspiration disguised as affluence? Many of the Thais sporting the latest fashion or smart phone are doing so on easy credit and up to their ears in debt.

Most Thais are still very poor by western standards and the number of genuinely 'rich' Thais are relatively few.

I agree wholeheartedly. And by making an assertion that those of us who are not working here, and are not paying taxes, are not benefitting the country financially, by being here, is ludicrous at best, and just plain wrong at worst. We may not pay taxes, but we spend a lot more money every month than the average Thai. And where is that money being spent? And who is benefitting from it? And does that not help the economy?

On no level do I feel one iota less entitled to paying the same entrance fee as the locals, due to the fact that I do not pay a relatively small amount of income tax here. I spend a small fortune every month here.

Your consumption is also likely much higher than average Thais which places a burden on an infrastructure barely capable of supporting its own citizens let alone foreigners looking to enjoy a 1st world lifestyle.

How do you think you're able to live such a high standard of living at a much lower cost than your home country which you probably couldnt afford? It's being subsidized by the very citizens you claim are being 'discriminatory.'

They are they are the ones who pay the taxes to maintain the infrastructure you take for granted.

Let's not forget the cost/strain on medical personnel and law enforcement for all the trouble caused by the many Farangs getting into fights, dealing drugs, theft, suicide, etc.

You and others dont know how good you have yet do nothing but complain and cry discrimination over being charged extra for trivial amounts.

[nemrut]

How exactly does charging foreigner more than locals count as Racial Discrimination? It may be discrimination, but's it's not racial. Unless, of course, you believe that there is a race called "non-Thai".

In case you had not noticed, there are very many races other than Thai. These races are all being discriminated against, hence racial discrimination.

Now is that still too difficult for you to understand or would you like me list all those races in alphabetical order??????

Farangs whining about being charged 'few pennies' more in Thailand while proclaiming it's discriminatory really reveal the level of ignorance and sense of entitlement many of you have.

Most of you have no clue what it's like to be discriminated against your whole life yet you're now an authority on the matter because you're not being treated as 'the royalty' you believe yourself to be?

Don't think that Thais don't notice many of you walking around with smug satisfaction while showing your contempt for them and their culture.

You're lucky they've allowed you to live in their country despite much of your appalling, low-life behavior.

Now then Nemrut, I think it is you that has a bit of a grudge or psychological problem. I don't see how you can tie one persons perception of life in Thailand and then say things like many of us walk around smug and with contempt towards Thais and their culture.

What gives with that?

And I for one certainly don't display appalling low life behaviour.

Sure you can probably aim these comments at some individuals but please don't paint everybody with the same brush.

Of course not but it's my opinion based on what I often observe to be constant whining by farangs in Thailand combined with their arrogance and contempt for Thai people/culture.

[cmsally]

If you want to have some fun and speak Northern dialect, you can ask them in Kham Muang why you have to pay more than the "Bangkok foreigners". That will get interesting.

[CMKiwi]

Well then, perhaps you are mixing with the wrong crowd. The majority of Farangs that I converse with and on occasion have a few ales with, are more than happy with their life in Thailand. Sure we all know there are faults in the system but that's not just applicable to Thailand. Most 'home' countries have their inherent problems too.

Maybe I'm just lucky to know falangs that are a bit more educated or mature and have an open mind when discussing any nationality or culture.

We are all different and that's what keeps things interesting.

[Fairynuff]

How exactly does charging foreigner more than locals count as Racial Discrimination? It may be discrimination, but's it's not racial. Unless, of course, you believe that there is a race called "non-Thai".

In case you had not noticed, there are very many races other than Thai. These races are all being discriminated against, hence racial discrimination.

Now is that still too difficult for you to understand or would you like me list all those races in alphabetical order??????

Farangs whining about being charged 'few pennies' more in Thailand while proclaiming it's discriminatory really reveal the level of ignorance and sense of entitlement many of you have.

Most of you have no clue what it's like to be discriminated against your whole life yet you're now an authority on the matter because you're not being treated as 'the royalty' you believe yourself to be?

Don't think that Thais don't notice many of you walking around with smug satisfaction while showing your contempt for them and their culture.

You're lucky they've allowed you to live in their country despite much of your appalling, low-life behavior.

Presumptious generalisation....well done

[TheSiemReaper]

I'm fully in support of dual-pricing for national parks, etc. and wish that my own government did the same. I'm happy to pay an extra $2-$3. It's not racism it's simply shifting the burden of upkeeping tourist sites onto tourists. (And yes, even if you've been an expat here for 3 decades and are about to launch into an exciting lecture on how much tax you've paid - you're stil a tourist).

"I'm happy to pay an extra $2-$3"

And when it's an extra $10+ ?

And when it's not all tourists, but just foreign ones, plus foreigners who live here, but not people from say Bangkok, where everyone is rich too ?

And when it gives the country a reputation for being racist, still support it ?

Even if it were an extra $100. Locals aren't tourists - they're locals. They already pay into a system for all their lives which should be designed to benefit them as citizens. It only "gives the country a reputation for being racist' in the minds of pathetic skinflints - the kind of tourists that Thailand can now afford to live without.

Up to you, if you want to consider me as a "pathetic skinflint", but I will continue to believe that in-principle people from different countries are equal, and ought to be treated equally. For me it's mainly about human-rights, something I do feel strongly about.

You feel that "Locals aren't tourists", but I'm afraid the millions of domestic-visitors to Chiang Mai are tourists, they swarm up here in search of our cold weather every winter, and my family and I put much more into the local economy by living here than they do on a long-weekend visit.

Lastly you say that "they already pay into a system for all their lives", well I'm sorry but most of them don't pay income-tax, as you are no doubt aware. And your view that the system "should be designed to benefit them as citizens", well you ought to know that it really isn't. Thai society is a work-in-progress, like most other countries.

I don't think I've ever heard quite so much rubbish in one post before. It's a human rights issue? Sure, you're so concerned about that - yet, you're living in a country where the Rohingya, for example, are treated more than abysmally. Entry fees to parks are not in the same league. Why embarass yourself? You're cheap. That's it. That's OK too. If you don't find value in the price on the door - you're free not to go. But to try and pretend this a high moral issue? That's really sad.

[TheSiemReaper]

Duplicate post. Deleted.

Edited October 29, 2015 by TheSiemReaper

[curtklay]

I like how 400-500 baht is now being calculated as a "few pennies" and "a dollar or two".

WOW...the exchange rate sure went to hell when I wasn't looking.

Edited October 29, 2015 by curtklay

[SoiBiker]

I like how 400-500 baht is now being calculated as a "few pennies" and "a dollar or two".

WOW...the exchange rate sure went to hell when I wasn't looking.

The OP mentions a price difference of 80 baht.

[Fairynuff]

I'm fully in support of dual-pricing for national parks, etc. and wish that my own government did the same. I'm happy to pay an extra $2-$3. It's not racism it's simply shifting the burden of upkeeping tourist sites onto tourists. (And yes, even if you've been an expat here for 3 decades and are about to launch into an exciting lecture on how much tax you've paid - you're stil a tourist).

"I'm happy to pay an extra $2-$3"

And when it's an extra $10+ ?

And when it's not all tourists, but just foreign ones, plus foreigners who live here, but not people from say Bangkok, where everyone is rich too ?

And when it gives the country a reputation for being racist, still support it ?

Even if it were an extra $100. Locals aren't tourists - they're locals. They already pay into a system for all their lives which should be designed to benefit them as citizens. It only "gives the country a reputation for being racist' in the minds of pathetic skinflints - the kind of tourists that Thailand can now afford to live without.

Up to you, if you want to consider me as a "pathetic skinflint", but I will continue to believe that in-principle people from different countries are equal, and ought to be treated equally. For me it's mainly about human-rights, something I do feel strongly about.

You feel that "Locals aren't tourists", but I'm afraid the millions of domestic-visitors to Chiang Mai are tourists, they swarm up here in search of our cold weather every winter, and my family and I put much more into the local economy by living here than they do on a long-weekend visit.

Lastly you say that "they already pay into a system for all their lives", well I'm sorry but most of them don't pay income-tax, as you are no doubt aware. And your view that the system "should be designed to benefit them as citizens", well you ought to know that it really isn't. Thai society is a work-in-progress, like most other countries.

I don't think I've ever heard quite so much rubbish in one post before. It's a human rights issue? Sure, you're so concerned about that - yet, you're living in a country where the Rohingya, for example, are treated more than abysmally. Entry fees to parks are not in the same league. Why embarass yourself? You're cheap. That's it. That's OK too. If you don't find value in the price on the door - you're free not to go. But to try and pretend this a high moral issue? That's really sad.

And you called his post rubbish??!!!

[curtklay]

I like how 400-500 baht is now being calculated as a "few pennies" and "a dollar or two".

WOW...the exchange rate sure went to hell when I wasn't looking.

The OP mentions a price difference of 80 baht.

Read through the 10 pages of this thread, and you will find several references to National Park fees of 400-500 baht for non Thais.