Mandatory "retirement" at age 60 for farangs, Government Schools?

[BruceMangosteen]

Mandatory retirement at age 60, (or refusal to hire people age 60) even for farangs on year to year contracts? Is this truth or fiction? I know or at least think it's true for Thai teachers aka Civil Servants. They can be kept on after retirement at the Directors discretion but become some sort of extra help etc..

Assume:

Legally employed, with a VISA and valid Work Permit...Government school, direct hire(no agency). Valid degree, previous/current TCT wavier.

Reaches the age of 60 during the contract term....or renewal denied because the teacher reaches said age during the term in question....

Is this just a reason the school wants to give the teacher not to renew or is it actually not allowed by the Thai Government?

[thesetat2013]

Its true i think. I know a university teacher who worked at the same school 15 years but when she reached 60 she was told it was retirement age and was not given a new contract.

The same woman also claimed she could have been given tenure if she has published anything during her years there

Edited October 28, 2015 by thesetat2013

[inzman]

It's not true, I worked with many over 60 Falang teachers. It's an excuse to get rid of you. They are too shy to tell you the truth. What a country.

[aidenai]

It's not true, I worked with many over 60 Falang teachers. It's an excuse to get rid of you. They are too shy to tell you the truth. What a country.

True that. There are no rules that foreign teachers must retire at 60.

First hand! My colleague is 63. Female, British and an extension of stay 2.7.

'Inzman' is soooooo correct!

Edited October 28, 2015 by aidenai

[lostinisaan]

Not true. Lung XX, who worked at schools in Ubon area was refused a work permit when he was 70 +. Thai teachers retire in the age of 60, but some continue working there.

A grade three Thai teacher in his late 60's became the photographer of a school in Ubon. No idea what job title they gave him.

No idea if foreigners can continue to pay in, once they're over 60.

I know that they can't get into the SS scheme, once they're 60 years old.

But to be honest, it's a terrible thought to work at a government school teaching 8-year-olds, when you're 66, or over.

Edited October 28, 2015 by lostinisaan

[Mencken]

Schools can and do hire the elderly. They are of mixed ability and energy. But if you are staying on I think it's a mixture of your ability and school's desperation.

Some are dragging ass at 50 yet others are relatively fit and energetic at 60. If you are wearing old, tired clothes that can't help!

I can see why a school doesn't want old farts teaching younger kids, may be M4-6 OK.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Mencken

[TheKnave]

I am 59.5 and my girlfriend has just entered the 11th grade.....i promised to teach her and her friends chemistry, now i am running out of time!!!!

A joke, just like the funny kind, only different...

[RayD]

It's not just "an excuse to get rid of you". Some Thai teachers, quite reasonably, think it's unfair farangs are allowed to continue past 60 and they are not. The school admin responds accordingly.

[SOTIRIOS]

....with connections.....Thais get Contracts after retirement....they call it 'Freelance'....

...they get their Retirement Settlement...Pension or whatever....and a nice Contract....

...besides...even the most incompetent Thai...with a Degree...'looking good on paper' would be favored over a foreigner....wouldn't you think...

[RayD]

Thai teachers in my experience are sensitive to special treatment for farangs. I was told quietly at one school that the reason I had to attend the regular director's pep talks even though I understood none of it was because the Thai teachers didn't want to attend either and didn't see why I should get off when they couldn't.

[gandalf12]

Funny how people in government are older but that rule does not apply to them. If it is assumed over 60 you are not capable of doing the job due to age, then it says a lot about governments areound the world

[dotpoom]

It's not true, I worked with many over 60 Falang teachers. It's an excuse to get rid of you. They are too shy to tell you the truth. What a country.

Funny how we all see things differently. I would consider it a far more polite way to end someone's employment in that manner, rather than telling them they are not a good teacher and they have to let him go. They are considering the person's feelings...a nicer way to go about it in my book. Enough rudeness and insensitivity around already. Edited October 29, 2015 by dotpoom

[Suradit69]

Schools can and do hire the elderly. They are of mixed ability and energy. But if you are staying on I think it's a mixture of your ability and school's desperation.

Some are dragging ass at 50 yet others are relatively fit and energetic at 60. If you are wearing old, tired clothes that can't help!

I can see why a school doesn't want old farts teaching younger kids, may be M4-6 OK.

"I can see why a school doesn't want old farts teaching younger kids, may be M4-6 OK."

Compared to some of the "stellar" young farts who supposedly teach and frequently post their incoherent comments on TV, it's not as if the schools are likely spoiled for choice. Incompetence seems to crop up in all age groups, as does ability. Admittedly old men who suddenly feel the call to spend their time with young kids raises some questions, but often more "mature" women will manage younger kids better than some of the bright young applicants ever would.

[KonKorat]

Yes 60 is retirement age in Thailand.my girlfriend is a teacher and she has told me she can only work until 60yo.

[Rhys]

This is always a by "the school protocol"... at some universities.. they trim the fat salaries by not renewing contracts.. if you are asked to extend one year, they come up with some way to reduce you FAT salary.

Then at some universities, all is on square, salary is kept, but the yearly increases do not come... fair enough

We had this play out here as well.. a teacher made it to 70... then he wanted to go and the new ADM personnel officials checked.

We also have some one the cusp of 60 and the school wants to keep the teacher, so they started everything early, salary is kept the same, but a new TOR specifically asking for the Magic Bullet program to improve English skills is required.. 555

In short, teachers are at the whim at the ADM / Personnel / Dean / Chair... bias.

[carlyai]

In Asia, it depends on your school's connections and payment patterns.

[Loaded]

Farangs can work beyond 60. I know several legal 60+ teachers and one who recently retired aged 70. The school doesn't need connections or to make payments. The 60 age limit applies to Thais.

[Dumbastheycome]

Anywhere relevance of effectiveness would impact outcome versus age. Any teacher who assists the status of an educational facility will be more likely be kept on in some capacity as opposed to those who are employed as a mandatory requirement.

"Teachers" are not stardardised products. Many are faulty merchandise from day one.

An educational facility that highly values an individual will be more likely to find ways to over-ride normal formality.

The thinking process will assist in comprehension.....

[aarontendo]

60 is retirement age, soak it up and enjoy your golden years. Oh, you worked here and don't have a pension....well shit.

[Loaded]

60 is retirement age, soak it up and enjoy your golden years. Oh, you worked here and don't have a pension....well shit.

"Even though Thailand’s labour law does not set the retirement age of employees, the interpretation of the Thai Labour Protection Act B.E. 2541 (1998) includes the fact that the retirement of employees is a termination of contract of employment. In case, an employer has included a retirement age in the work regulation, the employer shall pay Severance Pay to the employees who are terminated by the retirement age, in condition that the employees have worked for an uninterrupted period commencing from the first working day to the retirement date as stipulated in Section 118."

http://thailawyers.com/retirement-age-of-employees/

Edited October 30, 2015 by Loaded

[aarontendo]

I doubt that someone on a year-to-year contract that would apply to, as those contracts have no obligation for renewal.

I certainly wish it was otherwise, and I don't know for sure but that's just my guess. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[Rhys]

Farangs can work beyond 60. I know several legal 60+ teachers and one who recently retired aged 70. The school doesn't need connections or to make payments. The 60 age limit applies to Thais.

I wish this was true, but it all depends on the school. I saw the document they use at our school.. 60..for all... then the games begin!

Edited November 17, 2015 by Rhys

[Mencken]

Yeah, like Aaron stated. If you're +60 and working, your obviously broke.

I know no less than 3-4 geezers and a few more in the ++50 golden circle. I'd say half may have a plan, the other half appear to be hanging on.

Only perhaps one of four in that group has a degree, maybe. At least with the old guys, they may have had a reasonably decent hs education and may have had some on the job writing experience.

IMO if you have a number of geezers at the school, the administration is shit. They can only get and hold this desperate lot. Mutually beneficial.

They may be OK teachers in reality, its just not what Thai kids want, not difficult to see why.

The younger guys without degrees are just tragic although all the under 50 lot honestly pretty lazy and couldn't tell an article from an adverb.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Mencken

[aidenai]

Farangs can work beyond 60. I know several legal 60+ teachers and one who recently retired aged 70. The school doesn't need connections or to make payments. The 60 age limit applies to Thais.

I wish this was true, but it all depends on the school. I saw the document they use at our school.. 60..for all... then the games begin!

No MOE-regulations, labour or immigration rules in regards to the retirement age of foreigners.

It's your school's policy, Rhys.

They simply don't want YOU around anymore.

[lostinisaan]

60 is retirement age, soak it up and enjoy your golden years. Oh, you worked here and don't have a pension....well shit.

And no insurance. Then the shit hits the fan......

[thequietman]

60 is retirement age, soak it up and enjoy your golden years. Oh, you worked here and don't have a pension....well shit.

"Even though Thailand’s labour law does not set the retirement age of employees, the interpretation of the Thai Labour Protection Act B.E. 2541 (1998) includes the fact that the retirement of employees is a termination of contract of employment. In case, an employer has included a retirement age in the work regulation, the employer shall pay Severance Pay to the employees who are terminated by the retirement age, in condition that the employees have worked for an uninterrupted period commencing from the first working day to the retirement date as stipulated in Section 118."

http://thailawyers.com/retirement-age-of-employees/

Sure it's the law but do you know anyone (foreigner) who got severance from a government school?

I know people who tried but court threw it out every time. Five continuous 1 year contracts was not seen as full time !

[gandalf12]

Yeah, like Aaron stated. If you're +60 and working, your obviously broke.

I know no less than 3-4 geezers and a few more in the ++50 golden circle. I'd say half may have a plan, the other half appear to be hanging on.

Only perhaps one of four in that group has a degree, maybe. At least with the old guys, they may have had a reasonably decent hs education and may have had some on the job writing experience.

IMO if you have a number of geezers at the school, the administration is shit. They can only get and hold this desperate lot. Mutually beneficial.

They may be OK teachers in reality, its just not what Thai kids want, not difficult to see why.

The younger guys without degrees are just tragic although all the under 50 lot honestly pretty lazy and couldn't tell an article from an adverb.

Not necessrily. Many people enjoy working as opposed to sitting around doing nothing

[aarontendo]

Yeah, like Aaron stated. If you're +60 and working, your obviously broke.

I know no less than 3-4 geezers and a few more in the ++50 golden circle. I'd say half may have a plan, the other half appear to be hanging on.

Only perhaps one of four in that group has a degree, maybe. At least with the old guys, they may have had a reasonably decent hs education and may have had some on the job writing experience.

IMO if you have a number of geezers at the school, the administration is shit. They can only get and hold this desperate lot. Mutually beneficial.

They may be OK teachers in reality, its just not what Thai kids want, not difficult to see why.

The younger guys without degrees are just tragic although all the under 50 lot honestly pretty lazy and couldn't tell an article from an adverb.

Not necessrily. Many people enjoy working as opposed to sitting around doing nothing

Nice to have both available. Not possible in an average TEFL career :/

[Stradavarius37]

Yeah, like Aaron stated. If you're +60 and working, your obviously broke.

I know no less than 3-4 geezers and a few more in the ++50 golden circle. I'd say half may have a plan, the other half appear to be hanging on.

Only perhaps one of four in that group has a degree, maybe. At least with the old guys, they may have had a reasonably decent hs education and may have had some on the job writing experience.

IMO if you have a number of geezers at the school, the administration is shit. They can only get and hold this desperate lot. Mutually beneficial.

They may be OK teachers in reality, its just not what Thai kids want, not difficult to see why.

The younger guys without degrees are just tragic although all the under 50 lot honestly pretty lazy and couldn't tell an article from an adverb.

Or you have a job you love doing....

[simon43]

Yeah, like Aaron stated. If you're +60 and working, your obviously broke.

Some maybe, but certainly not all. Some people like to work. My academic father was working at Leicester University until he dropped dead at 89 years old. He chose to work because he liked to work.

I am approaching 57 years old and hope to take a year off from south east Asia to study on-campus in the UK for my PGCE, Then return to teach with my improved knowledge of teaching methodology etc. I hope to continue teaching until I'm into my 70's. It is not about the money.

They may be OK teachers in reality, its just not what Thai kids want, not difficult to see why

Many younger teachers are frankly unimaginative, inexperienced and the kids find them boring. It takes years of work experience to fine-tune one's own eccentricity and peculiar sense of humour. The students that I've taught - young and adult - appreciate having a teacher who is impossible to second-guess; it keeps them on their toes

Edited November 18, 2015 by simon43