Had motorbike crash. Whats my culpability?

[MaeJoMTB]

I assume that you were going faster than the BMW, or overtaking on the inside, again even in the west you would be at fault.

We are in Thailand traffic rules are different.

Thai law recommends scooters overtaking on the left, every Thai road has a scooter lane on the left.

Relative speeds not important, scooters overtake on the left, scooters driving straight ahead have right of way.

What you come to a different country you need to learn their traffic laws.

Unlicensed Vs uninsured & untaxed.

Their fine will be bigger!

Edited October 29, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[dorayme]

I would have gone to the nearest police station and ask them to make a report.

I'm not sure the police are really interested. I've read that the first guy to go to the police is considered to be right.

It sounds like they were at fault. They are also driving the larger vehicle.

We were cut off once by a large truck. Five guys got out shouting we were at fault. The policeman came and only marked the street with chalk.

We called our insurance who sent a man who surveyed the situation and told them they were at fault.

Good luck.

[Jake McClinton]

1. You are supposed to be driving on the left side of the road.

2. They are at fault as they basically cut in front of you, indicator or not. (I assume you were both going in the same direction, you haven't made this clear)

3. You have no license. Not a big deal in this country and has no relevance in this case, seeing as you have no insurance anyway.

4. This is not a western country and doesn't follow the same rules. Don't let others here worry you into admitting fault.

Just tell them it's their fault and you are not paying anything. hang up... finished! (as mentioned above ask them for their details to scare them a little)

They will not do anything nor will the police and even if they do,(unlikely) just worry about it then. Nobody was injured etc Do they even have your full name?

Papa's first post above is exactly what I would do. His post has a star next to it for a reason. Just stonewall them.

Ahhhhhh now finally thats the cathartic message i've been looking for! Thanks for the hint about the star.

They have my full name and a passport number/I.D number would have been on the medical card, also the license plate of my rental scooter.

Yes, we were both going in the same direction. I was on the left in the left hand side lane but he did definitely cut right infront of me. Already asked for their information but not had a reply since.

'Worry about it then' is not what i want to do if then will be far worse than just paying 12k and feeling really jipped off. But i appreciate the sentiment none the less!

Them not replying to you after you asked for their details is a good sign.

It will not be far worse. The worst is you will have to pay 12,000baht, which I doubt will happen. The worst case the police get involved, just tell them they refused to give their details and wouldn't pay YOU.

Scare them! Tell them you may have to go to hospital with a sore neck and you expect them to pay your bills!

Be strong, insist they are at fault, because they are. They cut you up! It doesn't matter if they indicated, they can't just plow into people. You are a bike, you are supposed to be on the most left side of the road.

The bar stool know it alls will say that the farang is always in the wrong and that is simply not true. I know many people personally that have been paid out by Thais.

Good luck, and let us know.

Update!

So, after i asked for their vehicle registration, tax and insurance/expired insurance etc.. I recieved a txt today with a picture of an estimate from some random dealership of 7000 baht now down from the original 12k quote along with some random story about her fixing half of the damage herself out of her own pocket.

So, after a while of deliberation and admittedly a few moments of weakness i thought 'This women drives a BWM and me a little crappy yet loveable scooter hell no am i paying after she cut me off!'. i told her my lawyer said not to talk to her anymore because it the case is in dispute. she's countered with an appeal to my consicence to come to the police station, not for the money but just to determine whose responsbility it is for the greater good of humankind.

Also good call on the scooter, i'll go buy one instead.

[AllanB]

AllanB

You turned in front of her.?

Many drive too fast.

Unseen?

Rule# 1:

You need to check your mirror before changing lane dude.

I did check my mirror, saw nothing, maybe she was in my blindspot, maybe she moved across suddenly, who knows I didn't see her among all the other traffic. Made my maneuver really slowly, she thought she could squeeze through. My first incident in 8 years, hopefully go another 8 years, fingers and everything else crossed, bits of string around my wrists, rabbits foot in my pocket, eyeballs in the back of my head....

She got away with a small scratch, I looked after her kept her sweet, hopefully she will be more careful and I will double, double check.

There but for the grace of god go I.....and all that and everything else.

OP...

They dropped the claim amount, you lucky bugger.....don't forget to prepare the receipt, and parts friends.

[Jake McClinton]

Allen B i do feel that your not really reading my posts properly! haha thanks for the support anyway.

Turns out they genuinely think i was in the wrong and were pissed at my decission not to pay them. They went to the police station, filled out a written complaint saying their story and sent me a picture of it seemingly very sure that it was checkmate.

It's a sad situation when both parties truely believe they are not wrong and I dont see any reconciliation possible for anyone at this point.

[macknife]

Allen B i do feel that your not really reading my posts properly! haha thanks for the support anyway.

Turns out they genuinely think i was in the wrong and were pissed at my decission not to pay them. They went to the police station, filled out a written complaint saying their story and sent me a picture of it seemingly very sure that it was checkmate.

It's a sad situation when both parties truely believe they are not wrong and I dont see any reconciliation possible for anyone at this point.

That's quite normal for Allen.

Just stick to your guns for couple of days and see what happens. They may just go away. If not, and it starts to get heavy then tell them you'll meet them in the middle and offer 3500B.

[papa al]

Allen B i do feel that your not really reading my posts properly! haha thanks for the support anyway.

Turns out they genuinely think i was in the wrong and were pissed at my decission not to pay them. They went to the police station, filled out a written complaint saying their story and sent me a picture of it seemingly very sure that it was checkmate.

It's a sad situation when both parties truely believe they are not wrong and I dont see any reconciliation possible for anyone at this point.

paper, scissors, rock ?

You will find such situations ubiquitous in the human drama.

Get used to it and blah, blah....

Have you been face to face with them\her since initial contact.

Tell 'em the legal advisor says 'don't communicate'

And don't.

If some thugs show up at your work or home, do the poor\crazy\3000baht strategy.

Is this a BKK thing?

[kannot]

Unlicensed driving then you are in the wrong for everything. Fruit of the poison tree.

You dinged their Beemer and it's fair and reasonable that they would want it repaired at an authorised BMW shop. If it was my Beemer that's what I would want.

Totally irrelevant what the rest of the traffic was doing, how busy you are, how much of a rush you were in.

The cops don't have to do much. They just need to bang the claim on the computer and you'll get pinged leaving the country, re-entering, or at immigration like those two Aussies were over the unpaid restaurant bill in Phuket last month.

Man up and pay for your damage and stop whinning. Or stop driving in Thailand.

Just be thankful they didn't give you a roughing up.

and they had No insurance

[kannot]

Assuming that you work in the same place every day, I also assume you drive down that same road every day...

I don't think that the cost of the dent in the door or the police involvement is you greatest danger. I know this may come across quite badly and politically incorrectly, but ask yourself what two young Thai men who drive a BMW might earn their money doing?

The best advice on here so far has been to get rid of the bike. I would change my route to work and any easily identifiable clothes or helmet also.

The men in the BMW probably borrowed more than they could pay back to get it and live in a crappy house somewhere......is the reality these days

[Jake McClinton]

Allen B i do feel that your not really reading my posts properly! haha thanks for the support anyway.

Turns out they genuinely think i was in the wrong and were pissed at my decission not to pay them. They went to the police station, filled out a written complaint saying their story and sent me a picture of it seemingly very sure that it was checkmate.

It's a sad situation when both parties truely believe they are not wrong and I dont see any reconciliation possible for anyone at this point.

paper, scissors, rock ?

You will find such situations ubiquitous in the human drama.

Get used to it and blah, blah....

Have you been face to face with them\her since initial contact.

Tell 'em the legal advisor says 'don't communicate'

And don't.

If some thugs show up at your work or home, do the poor\crazy\3000baht strategy.

Is this a BKK thing?

I have not seen them since the the fateful evening.

I am seriously considering going to the tourist police, I would have made my own complaint but they wouldn't give me so much as their name when i asked for it over text messages. People are saying this might screw with my work permit if it's left ignored. feels like i need to fight for my right.

[AllanB]

Allen B i do feel that your not really reading my posts properly! haha thanks for the support anyway.

Turns out they genuinely think i was in the wrong and were pissed at my decission not to pay them. They went to the police station, filled out a written complaint saying their story and sent me a picture of it seemingly very sure that it was checkmate.

It's a sad situation when both parties truely believe they are not wrong and I dont see any reconciliation possible for anyone at this point.

We/I am not pissed at all, it is nothing to do with me, it is your money and your decision. I am saying that if it were me I would pay up and put it behind me. I don't think the amount is unfair and another bunch of guys in a BMW might nail your head to the wardrobe....These guys still may do so, now that you are refusing to pay, once they have talked it over with their Thai mates.

I think you are to blame and wrong not to pay, you asked for opinions, well that is mine.

Good luck mate...

[iBike]

Ask her if she would like to view your helmet mounted video footage......

[kannot]

Allen B i do feel that your not really reading my posts properly! haha thanks for the support anyway.

Turns out they genuinely think i was in the wrong and were pissed at my decission not to pay them. They went to the police station, filled out a written complaint saying their story and sent me a picture of it seemingly very sure that it was checkmate.

It's a sad situation when both parties truely believe they are not wrong and I dont see any reconciliation possible for anyone at this point.

paper, scissors, rock ?

You will find such situations ubiquitous in the human drama.

Get used to it and blah, blah....

Have you been face to face with them\her since initial contact.

Tell 'em the legal advisor says 'don't communicate'

And don't.

If some thugs show up at your work or home, do the poor\crazy\3000baht strategy.

Is this a BKK thing?

I have not seen them since the the fateful evening.

I am seriously considering going to the tourist police, I would have made my own complaint but they wouldn't give me so much as their name when i asked for it over text messages. People are saying this might screw with my work permit if it's left ignored. feels like i need to fight for my right.

so theyve got all your information and what have you got of there's, well you havent got their name, have you got their address?

[MaeJoMTB]

so theyve got all your information and what have you got of there's, well you havent got their name, have you got their address?

After an accident,

You take your phone out, photograph them, their ID card, their DL, insurance police, number plate, windscreen (tax disc) and any alleged damage.

Takes 2 minutes, scares the he_ll out of them.

And if they don't have any of their documents with them, you don't have to pay, even if it was your fault.

Edited October 30, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[iBike]

so theyve got all your information and what have you got of there's, well you havent got their name, have you got their address?

After an accident,

You take your phone out, photograph them, their ID card, their DL, insurance police, number plate, windscreen (tax disc) and any alleged damage.

Takes 2 minutes, scares the he_ll out of them.

And if they don't have any of their documents with them, you don't have to pay, even if it was your fault.

Great shout, wonder if that ever gets upheld

[iBike]

so theyve got all your information and what have you got of there's, well you havent got their name, have you got their address?

After an accident,

You take your phone out, photograph them, their ID card, their DL, insurance police, number plate, windscreen (tax disc) and any alleged damage.

Takes 2 minutes, scares the he_ll out of them.

And if they don't have any of their documents with them, you don't have to pay, even if it was your fault.

Great shout, wonder if that ever gets upheld

I'd probably just half her current expectations though and pay at 3500 just for a quiet life. If she already halved what she was looking for then obviously knows she is chancing her luck a little

[papa al]

Allen B i do feel that your not really reading my posts properly! haha thanks for the support anyway.

Turns out they genuinely think i was in the wrong and were pissed at my decission not to pay them. They went to the police station, filled out a written complaint saying their story and sent me a picture of it seemingly very sure that it was checkmate.

It's a sad situation when both parties truely believe they are not wrong and I dont see any reconciliation possible for anyone at this point.

We/I am not pissed at all, it is nothing to do with me, it is your money and your decision. I am saying that if it were me I would pay up and put it behind me. I don't think the amount is unfair and another bunch of guys in a BMW might nail your head to the wardrobe....These guys still may do so, now that you are refusing to pay, once they have talked it over with their Thai mates.

I think you are to blame and wrong not to pay, you asked for opinions, well that is mine.

Good luck mate...

When you cut the 'unsee-able' girl off and hit her, she was to blame.

When Beemer cut off and hit OP, he is to blame.

You are becoming Thai Allan.

A point for consistency, I guess.

Edited October 30, 2015 by papa al

[AllanB]

Allen B i do feel that your not really reading my posts properly! haha thanks for the support anyway.

Turns out they genuinely think i was in the wrong and were pissed at my decission not to pay them. They went to the police station, filled out a written complaint saying their story and sent me a picture of it seemingly very sure that it was checkmate.

It's a sad situation when both parties truely believe they are not wrong and I dont see any reconciliation possible for anyone at this point.

We/I am not pissed at all, it is nothing to do with me, it is your money and your decision. I am saying that if it were me I would pay up and put it behind me. I don't think the amount is unfair and another bunch of guys in a BMW might nail your head to the wardrobe....These guys still may do so, now that you are refusing to pay, once they have talked it over with their Thai mates.

I think you are to blame and wrong not to pay, you asked for opinions, well that is mine.

Good luck mate...

When you cut the 'unsee-able' girl off and hit her, she was to blame.

When Beemer cut off and hit OP, he is to blame.

You are becoming Thai Allan.

A point for consistency, I guess.

What? The bike squeezing through on the inside was to blame in both cases, where is the contradiction? The only difference was the girl was going fast and I was indicating, which actually didn't alter anything. By the way the bike hit the car in both cases.

I did get a small dent in my truck too, but didn't pursue any claim, could have happened in a car park and the truck is 8 years old. I was more worried about her, she was crying too (cruel Farang)...... metal is nothing, well-being is everything.

......or are you saying I am being consistent? Papa confusing AllanB now....AKA Cosmo Smallpiece. (Google it)

[macknife]

Allen B i do feel that your not really reading my posts properly! haha thanks for the support anyway.

Turns out they genuinely think i was in the wrong and were pissed at my decission not to pay them. They went to the police station, filled out a written complaint saying their story and sent me a picture of it seemingly very sure that it was checkmate.

It's a sad situation when both parties truely believe they are not wrong and I dont see any reconciliation possible for anyone at this point.

We/I am not pissed at all, it is nothing to do with me, it is your money and your decision. I am saying that if it were me I would pay up and put it behind me. I don't think the amount is unfair and another bunch of guys in a BMW might nail your head to the wardrobe....These guys still may do so, now that you are refusing to pay, once they have talked it over with their Thai mates.

I think you are to blame and wrong not to pay, you asked for opinions, well that is mine.

Good luck mate...

When you cut the 'unsee-able' girl off and hit her, she was to blame.

When Beemer cut off and hit OP, he is to blame.

You are becoming Thai Allan.

A point for consistency, I guess.

What? The bike squeezing through on the inside was to blame in both cases, where is the contradiction? The only difference was the girl was going fast and I was indicating, which actually didn't alter anything. By the way the bike hit the car in both cases.

I did get a small dent in my truck too, but didn't pursue any claim, could have happened in a car park and the truck is 8 years old. I was more worried about her, she was crying too (cruel Farang)...... metal is nothing, well-being is everything.

......or are you saying I am being consistent? Papa confusing AllanB now....AKA Cosmo Smallpiece. (Google it)

To be fair to Allan he did say the bike was to blame in both cases. I'm guessing that because it happened to him, he can look through his rose tinted spectacles and say the OP was also to blame.

The truth of the matter though, is Allan was to blame for hitting that poor girl off her bike. (You(Allan) have admitted you didn't see her nevertheless she was there) Just like this BMW driver was to blame for knocking the OP of his bike.

Just because the car driver(s) didn't see the bike doesn't make it ok, or their fault. The driver(s) cut into their path and knocked them over.

Deep down he knows it too, or he wouldn't have brought her for a coffee and given her money.

[Jake McClinton]

Haha so true mac knife I was thinking the same thing before.

I'm glad I didn't pay. I feel like I've learned a lot and stood up for myself myself. Couldn't have done it without you guys especially mac knife and papa al and an private message from the chaing Mai tourist police. God bless you sir.

Tomorrow I'll go to the tourist police to document this event. The dint in their car door only serves as proof that they cut me off. I think they put in their police report that I back ended them so now I have to at least have the other side documented as insurance.

[eisfeld]

So they are saying you reversed into their door? Or what does "back ended them" mean? That should be very easy to disproof if your bike has even a tiny bit of scratch where you hit them.

Or if their car has a colored scratch that matches your front but not your back. Or the height of the dent doesn't match your bikes rear etc.

Lots of ways to show they are lieing.

Hope you got some pictures. If you can prove that they are lieing then you have extremely good cards as the police wouldn't believe anything else they say.

[papa al]

Allen B i do feel that your not really reading my posts properly! haha thanks for the support anyway.

Turns out they genuinely think i was in the wrong and were pissed at my decission not to pay them. They went to the police station, filled out a written complaint saying their story and sent me a picture of it seemingly very sure that it was checkmate.

It's a sad situation when both parties truely believe they are not wrong and I dont see any reconciliation possible for anyone at this point.

We/I am not pissed at all, it is nothing to do with me, it is your money and your decision. I am saying that if it were me I would pay up and put it behind me. I don't think the amount is unfair and another bunch of guys in a BMW might nail your head to the wardrobe....These guys still may do so, now that you are refusing to pay, once they have talked it over with their Thai mates.

I think you are to blame and wrong not to pay, you asked for opinions, well that is mine.

Good luck mate...

When you cut the 'unsee-able' girl off and hit her, she was to blame.

When Beemer cut off and hit OP, he is to blame.

You are becoming Thai Allan.

A point for consistency, I guess.

What? The bike squeezing through on the inside was to blame in both cases, where is the contradiction? The only difference was the girl was going fast and I was indicating, which actually didn't alter anything. By the way the bike hit the car in both cases.

I did get a small dent in my truck too, but didn't pursue any claim, could have happened in a car park and the truck is 8 years old. I was more worried about her, she was crying too (cruel Farang)...... metal is nothing, well-being is everything.

......or are you saying I am being consistent? Papa confusing AllanB now....AKA Cosmo Smallpiece. (Google it)

To be fair to Allan he did say the bike was to blame in both cases. I'm guessing that because it happened to him, he can look through his rose tinted spectacles and say the OP was also to blame.

The truth of the matter though, is Allan was to blame for hitting that poor girl off her bike. (You(Allan) have admitted you didn't see her nevertheless she was there) Just like this BMW driver was to blame for knocking the OP of his bike.

Just because the car driver(s) didn't see the bike doesn't make it ok, or their fault. The driver(s) cut into their path and knocked them over.

Deep down he knows it too, or he wouldn't have brought her for a coffee and given her money.

Stop making sense.

A is consistent here.

Good.

It would be better if he wasn't wrong also.

[Jake McClinton]

So they are saying you reversed into their door? Or what does "back ended them" mean? That should be very easy to disproof if your bike has even a tiny bit of scratch where you hit them.

Or if their car has a colored scratch that matches your front but not your back. Or the height of the dent doesn't match your bikes rear etc.

Lots of ways to show they are lieing.

Hope you got some pictures. If you can prove that they are lieing then you have extremely good cards as the police wouldn't believe anything else they say.

back ended means hit the back of their car. Where as in truth i made a small dint in their side car door. This dint is proof that its their fault as they cut me off any damage to the back of their car would suggest it would be my fault.

no pictures, If i went ot the police station to document this would they still ask for my license because i don't have one and don't want to pay a fine.