Research reveals ugly side to Bangkok life

[KonaRain]

I wanted to be forever an Amer.ex-pat..

Till I read T.V.forum.

Kinda knocked off the rose colored glasses.

Through a glass darkly, as they say..

Lay off the taxi drivers.. Kinda like the cops, etc., doncha think?

If You don't have a car, or a train, (of a boat)..

A nice place to visit..Relax and enjoy the ride.

Fasten Your seatbelt!

Happy Halloween

Alohz

Edited October 31, 2015 by KonaRain

[ClutchClark]

Fair comparison.

Bangkok invested 1,941Bt for every passenger that used the rail link.

Bangkok invested 2.4Bt for every boat passenger.

We can all do the math.

Now subtract all the lost revenue from tourists who decide not to visit Thailand because they have no economical public transportation to get from the airport to town.

And for that matter the numbers you crunched mean nothing unless you also have the data of how much each system returns to the coffers in fares.

At the main airport if you are a first arrival in Bangkok you have no idea you have to go downstairs to get a taxi which will cost you approx 300 baht to get into the city. You are accosted by signs and persons offering limo transportation which costs up to 1000 baht or more. The train service is not used by many because it does not connect with any stops of significence or the existing sky train.

300 Baht ??

Dang, they always used to get me for more than that...and then the tolls.

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

traffic too bad so that ying admin decides to make a populist policy to put more cars on the road by giving incentives to new car buyers?

They should limit the amount of cars. Add an ERP system similar to Singapore and charge people for driving inside the city.

Look at any intersection and see the percentage of cars that are taxi's that have no passengers. Less taxi's = less traffic.

Limit the number of taxi's allowed in the city area (the ERP would help this as well) and issue fewer licences for taxi's to operate.

Make taxi stands where that is the only place you can hail a taxi, as done in Singapore.

Stop the police from selling the streets and sidewalks thus keeping the streets clear for traffic and keeping the pedestrians on the sidewalks and off the roads where they are slowing down traffic as well.

[HerbalEd]

"This is despite the fact that there are 37 agencies responsible for Bangkok's traffic affairs,"

No, the problems are in large part because there are 37 agencies.

[Enoon]

why people complain if have to drive 2 hours to go work.

they now live the American dream. this is what people want: House, car, TV and a garage full of junks.

they think it s free and could stay home watching TV all day.? they didn't see that this kind of American life will make them miserable and a debt slave... now suck it up... they are all screwed.

How could they see? The totalitarian machinery of the corporate, consumerist, materialist, globalised system is totally geared towards convincing them (as it convinced the west) that it's not just a "dream", but a beautiful, possible, reality.

By the time they realise it's true nature, they're "hooked".

[slipperylobster]

did not know bangkok was so low on the "livability" list...

amazing.

[smotherb]

Fair comparison.

Bangkok invested 1,941Bt for every passenger that used the rail link.

Bangkok invested 2.4Bt for every boat passenger.

We can all do the math.

Now subtract all the lost revenue from tourists who decide not to visit Thailand because they have no economical public transportation to get from the airport to town.

And for that matter the numbers you crunched mean nothing unless you also have the data of how much each system returns to the coffers in fares.

Except it appears the tourists of which you speak are finding other ways to get into town. I prefer the taxi, I can go when and where I choose and don't have to wait for the next train or find a way to get from where the train stops to where I am going. Having the freedom of a taxi--which is quite cheap, by the way, especially if you share with one or two people--expands your potential savings by opening up hotels or guesthouses away from the train stations and I often have the driver stop to get me a couple of cold beers for the ride.

Edited October 31, 2015 by smotherb

[BusyB]

"This is despite the fact that there are 37 agencies responsible for Bangkok's traffic affairs,"

Not despite - because!

[gemguy]

All things considered, relative to the magnitude of logistics involved, to operate and maintain a city with a burgeoning population of around 12 million people I personally think they are handling it pretty well...all things considered and everything entailed.

Of Course it could be better as that can and often is said about the logistical administration of any large city of over 1 million people while those living in what is considered a large city of say 1 to 2 million people often bitterly complain about traffic matters and a host of other social problems existing in their thought to be, considered to be large city.

They would have to come to a city like Bangkok and experience the Bangkok "experience" first hand and come to realize that a city of 12 million people is a whole different level of logistics concerning the orderly, or as orderly as can well be expected, administration of such a large city.

There is plenty of room for improvement ...like what is said in the OP...but all things considered they are managing the city well enough by any standard.

Just saying

Cheers

What a load of BS. The traffic lights alone are one of the worst managed as has been stated elsewhere, some timed to benefit wealthy owners of hotels or shopping malls, i.e, the emporium. In almost all countries the timing of lights is a lot different to here where the red light is often on for more than 2 or 3 minutes. In most cities it rarely exceeds 30 seconds so traffic keeps flowing even at a slow pace.

Hmmmm ......are we a nit picky person???? or more obviously (you) can not see the larger picture.

The traffic moves and flows more than well enough.... all things considered, while I can assure you 110 % the traffic situation is much better than many, many,many other large cities around the world.

Have you ever been to Cairo???...... A perfect example of traffic chaos that is 10 times worse than Bangkok....every single day .....while nothing of any significance is ever done to solve the problems because it is near impossible to solve.

C'mon...give us some real substance here...not your particular pet peeves.

You do not get out that often, do you??....lol

Cheers

[daiwill60]

surely with 37 units devoted to traffic, corruption costs could be decreased by just having one unit headed by our glorious leader. This would reduce 37 sticky fingers down to 1

But if you laid off all the people who have paid for their precious positions in the other 37 units , probably without a golden handshake, that would oiss off a lot of people.

But then I suppose the Pm's answer to that would be, as in his last friday evening's speech when referring to people who have had their illegal beach or street side businesses closed down, "No problem , just go and get another job" ????

[daiwill60]

Fair comparison.

Bangkok invested 1,941Bt for every passenger that used the rail link.

Bangkok invested 2.4Bt for every boat passenger.

We can all do the math.

Now subtract all the lost revenue from tourists who decide not to visit Thailand because they have no economical public transportation to get from the airport to town.

And for that matter the numbers you crunched mean nothing unless you also have the data of how much each system returns to the coffers in fares.

At the main airport if you are a first arrival in Bangkok you have no idea you have to go downstairs to get a taxi which will cost you approx 300 baht to get into the city. You are accosted by signs and persons offering limo transportation which costs up to 1000 baht or more. The train service is not used by many because it does not connect with any stops of significence or the existing sky train.

If you are talking the train service from the airport to the city, what does it connect to at Phaya Thai ?? HUH !!!

[daiwill60]

traffic too bad so that ying admin decides to make a populist policy to put more cars on the road by giving incentives to new car buyers?

They should limit the amount of cars. Add an ERP system similar to Singapore and charge people for driving inside the city.

Look at any intersection and see the percentage of cars that are taxi's that have no passengers. Less taxi's = less traffic.

Limit the number of taxi's allowed in the city area (the ERP would help this as well) and issue fewer licences for taxi's to operate.

Make taxi stands where that is the only place you can hail a taxi, as done in Singapore.

Stop the police from selling the streets and sidewalks thus keeping the streets clear for traffic and keeping the pedestrians on the sidewalks and off the roads where they are slowing down traffic as well.

I have to pay Tolls to get on and off the motorways surrounding BKK ??

Stop closing roads to the minions because entities also want to use certain roads at the same times during rush hour periods, then something constructive might be done when they experience the same as one and all.

[daiwill60]

traffic too bad so that ying admin decides to make a populist policy to put more cars on the road by giving incentives to new car buyers?

They should limit the amount of cars. Add an ERP system similar to Singapore and charge people for driving inside the city.

Look at any intersection and see the percentage of cars that are taxi's that have no passengers. Less taxi's = less traffic.

Limit the number of taxi's allowed in the city area (the ERP would help this as well) and issue fewer licences for taxi's to operate.

Make taxi stands where that is the only place you can hail a taxi, as done in Singapore.

Stop the police from selling the streets and sidewalks thus keeping the streets clear for traffic and keeping the pedestrians on the sidewalks and off the roads where they are slowing down traffic as well.

I pay tolls to enter and exit central BKK??

Stop closing roads to everyday users when certain entities also want to use the same streets as joe public at rush hour time. Then maybe when the entities also endure what joe endures soemething may be done.

[daiwill60]

Fair comparison.

Bangkok invested 1,941Bt for every passenger that used the rail link.

Bangkok invested 2.4Bt for every boat passenger.

We can all do the math.

Now subtract all the lost revenue from tourists who decide not to visit Thailand because they have no economical public transportation to get from the airport to town.

And for that matter the numbers you crunched mean nothing unless you also have the data of how much each system returns to the coffers in fares.

At the main airport if you are a first arrival in Bangkok you have no idea you have to go downstairs to get a taxi which will cost you approx 300 baht to get into the city. You are accosted by signs and persons offering limo transportation which costs up to 1000 baht or more. The train service is not used by many because it does not connect with any stops of significence or the existing sky train.

300 Baht ??

Dang, they always used to get me for more than that...and then the tolls.

Yep never understood why Taxis have to pay, or at least have an automatic metering system

[Dumbastheycome]

The base data is probably justified or defensible in the sense it was promoted. But what comparison is there to other major cities in other countries that give some indication that Bangkok has an exclusive problem?

Bangkok central was originally a canal ciity.Many major routes for vehicles are actually filled in canals. With typical ( international) unwitting failure to plan on the proliferation of urban city residents and vehicular transport and a genereal lack of infrastructural planning is it any surprise?

This is not an exclusive to Thailand problem.

[Dumbastheycome]

The base data is probably justified or defensible in the sense it was promoted. But what comparison is there to other major cities in other countries that give some indication that Bangkok has an exclusive problem?

Bangkok central was originally a canal ciity.Many major routes for vehicles are actually filled in canals. With typical ( international) unwitting failure to plan on the proliferation of urban city residents and vehicular transport and a genereal lack of infrastructural planning is it any surprise?

This is not an exclusive to Thailand problem.

[torpedo1970]

why people complain if have to drive 2 hours to go work.

they now live the American dream. this is what people want: House, car, TV and a garage full of junks.

they think it s free and could stay home watching TV all day.? they didn't see that this kind of American life will make them miserable and a debt slave... now suck it up... they are all screwed.

Totally agree with you on this. have spent years in London, even with a very well developed public transport it did take me one hours to get to work and one hour to get home...

Too much focus in this discussion about the Airport link only....

it is the overall picture that is most important... 37 different agencies servicing and "skimming" money to their own pockets..... WOW

"Fact No 6: There is only 2.2 square metres of usable green zones per person, which is less than half the amount that BMA said there was. The BMA included in its figure private zones and even traffic islands."

yeah, lets use the traffic islands for picnic,....

[Acharn]

'Public transport failure'

Fact No 2: More money is being pumped into public transport than is warranted given the number of people using it.

The Airport Rail Link is used by some 17 million people a year, and Bt33 billion is invested in it.

The Chao Phraya River and the Klong Saen Saep boat services serve more than 29 million people a year, but only Bt70 million is invested in them.

----------------------------------

But the boat services don't go to the Airport.

This comparison is ridiculous for a number of different reasons.

Yes, I have better things to do than try to find out if they're counting capital investment in the rail line as operating expenses, but it looks like that's what they're doing. On the other hand I have to say I doubt the high-speed rail line is cost-effective. I very much doubt if it's actually any faster than a regular elevated railway would be. In fact I strongly suspect it is an elevated railway using standard cars and they just call it high-speed because it doesn't have many stops. On the other hand, what they spend on the river taxis is operating expenses -- I'm pretty sure they aren't investing in new boats and they sure aren't upgrading any piers.

[Tengu]

Fair comparison.

Bangkok invested 1,941Bt for every passenger that used the rail link.

Bangkok invested 2.4Bt for every boat passenger.

Liars, damn liars, and statisticians....

Yes, it is a fair comparison, if Bt/passenger is your only metric.

But what about other metrics?

Are the destinations the same or really even similar?

Are the alternatives to each and the environmental and congestion impact of using them instead?

How do the costs of constructing each of these systems compare with the costs in other cities/countries?

Are the costs of constructing a ferry system similar to constructing a rail system?

Is the tea money similar?

-

[MeHere]

Has anyone driven in Jakarta??? Makes bangkok look like a superfast expressway lots of the time

[Bigfarang1948]

'Public transport failure'

Fact No 2: More money is being pumped into public transport than is warranted given the number of people using it.

The Airport Rail Link is used by some 17 million people a year, and Bt33 billion is invested in it.

The Chao Phraya River and the Klong Saen Saep boat services serve more than 29 million people a year, but only Bt70 million is invested in them.

----------------------------------

But the boat services don't go to the Airport.

This comparison is ridiculous for a number of different reasons.

Well. There you have it; 37 agencies managing traffic in Bangkok. that in itself is a huge problem. I bet they do not have a gollective agenda and seldom cooperate with each other.Who is really incharge of making changes to any aspect of life in greater Bangkok? I'm betting nobody carees but the citizens stuck in traffic while sucking in lungs fuull of carbon monoxide fumes.

[KonaRain]

Re: C Monoxide..

Better use A.C. on recirculate.

Like Honolulu's traffic without TradeWinds!

Alohz

[Thian]

Yes because they all drive a car since motorbikes are treated lower then soidogs.

Last friday i spent 2.5 hours in a taxi for a ride of 20 min with the motorbike.

But i blame it on the police and the government because they didn't build any good public transport in the subs.

[Pattaya28]

Fact 9 is the one I like best.

All high performers, so sent them on holiday abroad with their performance bonuses

[davidstipek]

'Public transport failure'

Fact No 2: More money is being pumped into public transport than is warranted given the number of people using it.

The Airport Rail Link is used by some 17 million people a year, and Bt33 billion is invested in it.

The Chao Phraya River and the Klong Saen Saep boat services serve more than 29 million people a year, but only Bt70 million is invested in them.

----------------------------------

But the boat services don't go to the Airport.

This comparison is ridiculous for a number of different reasons.

What might be a Income increasing game would be to change passengers on Public Transportation to use Bus Tokens... More then once a day I have seen the Employees collecting money and issuing tickets. Slide Bills (money) into a personal hid-a-way. Increasing their personal Daily Income. Put Token Exchangers at Out Side all 7/11's and in all public places. If this is tried for one year I can assure you that Profit (s) would increase. Would not be surprised if increases of over 75% suddenly appeared. This would eliminated Employees handling Cash! Using 2 employees or a Security Officer to Load and Empty Machines would minimize anyone Handling any Monies. Even to have machines dispense sealed cash bags only loading of tokens would be a manual duty. Doing this daily would show and allow comparison's with previous Daily collections.

I have been issued stamps that I could not read as being either damaged or counterfeit... I am sure when, Employees decides to use, the money collected does not go in the till!

Investigate or try... Even daily dispensed Tokens, if purchaser never uses all, still shows as Daily income for Department. I believe you will find about a 2/3rds of purchases daily match collected Tokens. Making it one Token for each rider, one value!

You would have accurate and current usage of Service. One Token... One person... For those of you concerned about length of ride there could be 3 different color Tokens (Blue.. White.. Red), Each having it's own face value. Still One Token...One User! 3 Zones, One Color Token for each.... Easy! Actual cash value of each in case of Theft 1/100000 of a Baht! (someone bringing in 100,000 of these for One Baht... HaHa!)

Edited November 2, 2015 by davidstipek

[Rocketsurgeon]

Bangkok, the new Manilla.

Driving a car in bkk is just assinine. So many cheap taxis, songtaew and bts/mrt/link.

Car is depreciating asset and never bought for cash here. Accidents abound. Petrol more expensive than US.

Why be a part of the problem when you can be part of solution?

37 agencies...not any different than Immigration, education, policing, health, etc...

Another issue is how do you cull staff that not only paid for govt jobs but may have gone into debt to do so.

*I've never seen anyone pocket money on MRT.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Rocketsurgeon

[teatree]

Fair comparison.

Bangkok invested 1,941Bt for every passenger that used the rail link.

Bangkok invested 2.4Bt for every boat passenger.

We can all do the math.

Now subtract all the lost revenue from tourists who decide not to visit Thailand because they have no economical public transportation to get from the airport to town.

And for that matter the numbers you crunched mean nothing unless you also have the data of how much each system returns to the coffers in fares.

At the main airport if you are a first arrival in Bangkok you have no idea you have to go downstairs to get a taxi which will cost you approx 300 baht to get into the city. You are accosted by signs and persons offering limo transportation which costs up to 1000 baht or more. The train service is not used by many because it does not connect with any stops of significence or the existing sky train.

It connects with the MRT and the BTS.

[teatree]

Surely the figure of 33 billion baht for the ARL includes the contruction cost - it doesn't cost a billion US dollars a year to maintain.

The 70 million baht for the boat services is surely just for maintainance

Comparing the costs involved with building 28km of elevated track with the costs of maintaining a 150 year old canal and a river boat service is absurd.

[mike324]

BTS in Thailand is quite expensive given the number of km it travels for the fare. That is the only hope to reduce traffic in the city. They need to lower the fare and get the system compatible with the MRT and public buses offering fare discounts when using both simultaneously

[Bender]

back home anybody (low wage worker and middle class) can ride the subway, in Bkk only middle class can afford the BTS and MRT.

The poor can only afford bus and with his 2 hours in a traffic jam, that really the ugly side of Bkk...

Edited November 4, 2015 by Bender