Russian airliner crashes in central Sinai - Egyptian PM

[Chicog]

“Isis didn’t come from nowhere, its weapons don’t come from nowhere. We sell vast amounts of weapons to Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, and a number of other places – how many of those end up in the hands of Isis? With all that money in their hands,” Jeremy Corbyn, MP Islington North told a BBC Question Time audience.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-arms-sales-to-the-middle-east-are-probably-fuelling-isis-says-jeremy-corbyn-10364998.html

I doubt the Sheikhs are passing too many weapons to an organisation whose stated aim is to bring them down.

Which isn't to say that some they've provided to the FSA and other groups haven't ended up in the hands of these lunatics.

[phantomfiddler]

Tough situation for the russkies....how to admit their plane was blown up when they stand accused of perpetrating the same ghastly act in ukraine?

And what isis are they going to wipe out....its a continually shapeshifting organisation...

Karma will have it,s way !

[norfolkandchance]

Amer Shaker done it

[smotherb]

“Isis didn’t come from nowhere, its weapons don’t come from nowhere. We sell vast amounts of weapons to Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, and a number of other places – how many of those end up in the hands of Isis? With all that money in their hands,” Jeremy Corbyn, MP Islington North told a BBC Question Time audience.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-arms-sales-to-the-middle-east-are-probably-fuelling-isis-says-jeremy-corbyn-10364998.html

I doubt the Sheikhs are passing too many weapons to an organisation whose stated aim is to bring them down.

Which isn't to say that some they've provided to the FSA and other groups haven't ended up in the hands of these lunatics.

". . . With all that money in their hands . . .” I doubt anyone passed weapons to them, they bought them.

[Chicog]

“Isis didn’t come from nowhere, its weapons don’t come from nowhere. We sell vast amounts of weapons to Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, and a number of other places – how many of those end up in the hands of Isis? With all that money in their hands,” Jeremy Corbyn, MP Islington North told a BBC Question Time audience.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-arms-sales-to-the-middle-east-are-probably-fuelling-isis-says-jeremy-corbyn-10364998.html

I doubt the Sheikhs are passing too many weapons to an organisation whose stated aim is to bring them down.

Which isn't to say that some they've provided to the FSA and other groups haven't ended up in the hands of these lunatics.

". . . With all that money in their hands . . .” I doubt anyone passed weapons to them, they bought them.

It neatly distracts from the fact that the UK and US gave the Iraqi army all these state of the art weapons and they essentially dropped them and fled at the first sign of trouble.

So they didn't even actually have to buy a lot of the stuff.... they just picked it up.

[Chicog]

But I digress. Anyone else hear about the tailstrike this aircraft suffered in 2001?

[JHolmesJr]

I would imagine (if this is a hostile takedown) that it would put a dent in putins swagger…. and cut the russkies down a peg from this image they have of being the sort of people no one messes with. These are the perils of dealing with an enemy that has no roots, no base and no mailing address.

If anything this would encourage more violence against the russkies…..and perhaps take some heat off the usa and uk.

[balo]

I'm pretty sure a big part of the plane , maybe the tail must have fallen off which caused the plane to do a vertical dive. The video posted on liveleak about a missile hitting it is fake for sure.

[stoneyboy]

I'm pretty sure a big part of the plane , maybe the tail must have fallen off which caused the plane to do a vertical dive. The video posted on liveleak about a missile hitting it is fake for sure.

It's been reported that the aircraft broke up mid air.

Sinai plane crash: Russian airliner 'broke up in mid-air'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34694057

[Tywais]

NEWS: Aviation experts believe explosive decompression caused by structural failure brought down Russian A321

Aviation experts from multiple different outlets and backgrounds believe that the most plausible reason of the crash of #7K9268 was an explosive decrompression of the cabin. According to multiple sources, the co-pilot of the doomed flight had expressed concern to his wife over the mechanical state of the plane involved in the incident.

Due to this and the extremely unlikely possibility of the plane being brought down by the terrorist organization which is attempting to take credit, these experts believe explosive decrompression is the most likely reason for the crash. However, they expressed clearly that this is just speculation and to trust the investigators involved in determining the cause of the crash and their reports.

Airlive.net

[Tywais]

Flight 7K9268 Broke Into Pieces Midair, Too Early to Determine Cause

© AFP 2015/ KHALED DESOUKI
Middle East
17:28 01.11.2015
(updated 18:43 01.11.2015)

Viktor Sorochenko, an official with the Intergovernmental Aviation Committee, made the comments after inspecting the crash site on Egypt's Sinai peninsula.

The Russian Airbus A321 which crashed in Egypt Saturday killing 224 broke into pieces midair, but it is still too early to determine the cause, Interstate Aviation Committee (MAK) said Sunday.

"It is too early to draw conclusions," MAK executive director Viktor Sorochenko said. "Disintegration of the fuselage took place in the air, and the fragments are scattered around a large area [about 20 square kilometers]", the official added.

In a separate development, Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi said the investigation into the crash causes could take months.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151101/1029433877/russian-airbus-crash-cause.html#ixzz3qFzBLAbF

[oncearugge]

As always when these tragic events occur the Media and forum punters engage in an orgy of speculation.

Why not just wait for the expert investigators to do their work and report their findings?

[dabhand]

Interesting that, based on the flight route maps, the plane hugged the coast after take-off from Sharm before heading into Sinai.

Presumably that is a security feature where the plane only goes into the Sinai after reaching a height sufficient enough to evade any possible strikes from manpads and the like.

No matter what the investigation shows is the reason for the crash, this will be a heavy blow for the Egyptian tourist industry and the millions who rely upon that business for their livelihood.

Very sad for both the Russians and the Egyptians.

.

[Tywais]

Sinai plane crash: 10-month girl becomes grieving symbol of Russia tragedy

A 10-month-old girl gazing at the planes in St. Petersburg airport before departing to Egypt – this picture of Darina has become the symbol of the plane crash in Sinai on social media. People continue to bring flowers to mourn the tragedy.

Darina Gromova was among the 224 people who died on Kolavia flight 7K9268. It was returning from Egypt's Sharm El-Sheikh resort to Russia's St. Petersburg on Saturday morning when it suddenly vanished from radar over the Sinai Peninsula.

Her parents – mother Tatiana and father Aleksey – were also among those killed in the crash.

“Main passenger. #family. #darinagromova. Pulkovo International Airport Saint-Petersburg New Terminal 1,” wrote Tatiana hours before their plane took off from St. Petersburg to Sinai. Little did she know that this photo would become the grieving symbol of the tragic flight.

More here - RT.com

[Tywais]

As always when these tragic events occur the Media and forum punters engage in an orgy of speculation.

Why not just wait for the expert investigators to do their work and report their findings?

It could be worse. Just saw a conspiracy theorist on YouTube saying the CIA shot the plane down.

[Richard W]

Interesting that, based on the flight route maps, the plane hugged the coast after take-off from Sharm before heading into Sinai.

Presumably that is a security feature where the plane only goes into the Sinai after reaching a height sufficient enough to evade any possible strikes from manpads and the like..

It's also a permanent safety feature. Mount Sinai is nearby and high.

[mcfish]

As always when these tragic events occur the Media and forum punters engage in an orgy of speculation.

Why not just wait for the expert investigators to do their work and report their findings?

Because that wouldn't be speculation. Your post is a bit simplistic when you think about it

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

[scubascuba3]

we want lots of speculation, there's plenty of time for facts

[Chicog]

I reckon bad repair, metal fatigue, tail fell off. It's happened before. But I could be wrong. That's as far as my guessing will go.

[mcfish]

Speculation is healthy. already France and Germany are diverting flights over Egypt based purely on speculation

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

[oncearugge]

I reckon bad repair, metal fatigue, tail fell off. It's happened before. But I could be wrong. That's as far as my guessing will go.

Pure speculation !

Why the morbid necessity to indulge ?

[scubascuba3]

I reckon bad repair, metal fatigue, tail fell off. It's happened before. But I could be wrong. That's as far as my guessing will go.

Pure speculation !

Why the morbid necessity to indulge ?

There are experts on Television news who won't speculate, in my book, its pointless having them on TV if they aren't prepared to use their knowledge to speculate.

[dcutman]

As always when these tragic events occur the Media and forum punters engage in an orgy of speculation.

Why not just wait for the expert investigators to do their work and report their findings?

It could be worse. Just saw a conspiracy theorist on YouTube saying the CIA shot the plane down.

You seem to be an expert. Exactly how many commercial aircraft have disintegrated at 30,000 + over the last 20 years? And what were the causes of those failures?

Why would it be surprising the CIA is implicated in this, defiantly not unprecedented, and not a big secret they are operating, supplying,and training rebels and or known terror groups in that area?

Edited November 1, 2015 by dcutman

[oncearugge]

I reckon bad repair, metal fatigue, tail fell off. It's happened before. But I could be wrong. That's as far as my guessing will go.

Pure speculation !

Why the morbid necessity to indulge ?

There are experts on Television news who won't speculate, in my book, its pointless having them on TV if they aren't prepared to use their knowledge to speculate.

Real Experts never speculate. They gather, analyse and interpret evidence, They use evidence to deduce the cause(s) of incidents.

The "speculators" , OTH cause anxiety and distress to victims families.

[anon4546543]

My condolences to all the families of those who have died. RIP to the passengers.

[Chicog]

Real Experts never speculate. They gather, analyse and interpret evidence, They use evidence to deduce the cause(s) of incidents.

The "speculators" , OTH cause anxiety and distress to victims families.

Calm down lad, this isn't PPRUNE.

I'm just suggesting a possible cause because I feel like it.

Although I will admit I got it wrong. I thought there was only one previous crash due to a faulty repair after a tailstrike. I was wrong. Here's the evidence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Airlines_Flight_611

Clue:

The final investigation report found that the accident was the result of metal fatigue caused by inadequate maintenance after an earlier tailstrike incident.

And in that report:

This was not the first time that a plane had crashed because of a faulty repair following a tailstrike. On 12 August 1985, 17 years before the Flight 611 crash and five years after the accident aircraft's repair, Japan Airlines Flight 123 had crashed when the vertical stabilizer was torn off and the hydraulic systems severed by explosive decompression, killing 520 of the 524 people on board. That crash had been attributed to a faulty repair to the rear pressure bulkhead, which had been damaged in 1978 in a tailstrike incident.

Clue:

The explosive decompression was caused by a faulty repair performed seven years earlier.

In both cases (and by the sound of it, this one), the airframe broke up before it hit the ground.

What difference does it make whether I'm right or wrong?

It's just an opinion.

If you don't like it, ignore it.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Chicog

[Chicog]

And here's video showing the separation of the tail end from the rest of the airframe (at 2:27).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1225660/First-aerials-Russian-plane-crash-wreckage-Sinai.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

Edited November 1, 2015 by Chicog

[Richard W]

I reckon bad repair, metal fatigue, tail fell off. It's happened before. But I could be wrong. That's as far as my guessing will go.

One hopes poor maintenance or skipped or overruled inspection comes in there. There's supposed to be an inspection process to stop Boeing 747 tails dropping off, but perhaps the principle hasn't been extend to other types.

[Chicog]

I reckon bad repair, metal fatigue, tail fell off. It's happened before. But I could be wrong. That's as far as my guessing will go.

One hopes poor maintenance or skipped or overruled inspection comes in there. There's supposed to be an inspection process to stop Boeing 747 tails dropping off, but perhaps the principle hasn't been extend to other types.

MEA were ridiculously cheap to fly from the Gulf to London back in the day, but no expat I ever knew flew them because of those exact concerns.

[Dustdevil]

Russian A321 fell 'almost vertically', technical fault behind crash

Maybe I am the only one, but I swear, I could not understand a single sentence from that girl in the video. Every other word was eerrrr or ahhhhhh or something . Got absolutely nothing from her.

Because she's a state propaganda hack.