What is it with sugar and Thais?

[tonray]

Here the problem is part of culture. In Thai schools the canteen routinely offers bowls of white sugar for kids to add to their soups and curries. I cringe when I see some little ones scooping a whole tablespoon full of white sugar into their kuay teiw or Tom Yum.....then they add chiles, fish sauce and vinegar to counteract the sugar sweetness.....

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[Jingthing]

Here the problem is part of culture. In Thai schools the canteen routinely offers bowls of white sugar for kids to add to their soups and curries. I cringe when I see some little ones scooping a whole tablespoon full of white sugar into their kuay teiw or Tom Yum.....then they add chiles, fish sauce and vinegar to counteract the sugar sweetness.....

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Yes it is an insidious situation now. Getting worse. Thailand is trending in the direction of Mexico in obesity rates. Not there yet, but going there.

[AlphMichaels]

It's much more complicated than that if you're talking about highly processed modern mass market foods.

People often are not making conscious choices.

Those are the CHEAPEST foods so that's what most people can afford to eat, most of the time.

That creates obesity promoting food environments and that is quite real.

As far as NYC, I don't think that law is actually in effect now and it wasn't a big deal anyway. Just order another drink if you want it.

Yes, sugar sodas are a good target, they have a SHOCKING amount of sugar in them, and most people really aren't fully aware of the dangers.

It's so easy to be SMUG about these issues and take a purist "libertarian" approach but I think that's extremely irresponsible. Think of the children. Many in the world, and in Thailand, are becoming obese at an early age, and statistically we know an obese child has a very high probability of being an obese adult, with chronic health problems and shortened life spans.

No of course there is no perfect answer that will prevent all problems. But social policies including from government, from local school leaders, etc. CAN at least put a dent in these problems, and surely that is better than doing NOTHING.

Cheers.

Spot on. The international food companies have become purveyors of sugar, and with intent. They perversely promote products they know are bad for people by putting attractive models in front of the cameras. Imagine a pristine model promoting Ajinomoto's Birdy coffee drinks, which incidentally contain less than 20% coffee..., mostly sugar, being asked to consume 3 cans a day for one year before the shoot. Ya, that's not going to happen.

The food labs are creating products that achieve what's well known in the industry as "bliss point" consumption-where something tastes good and actually makes you feel better. But it lasts only a short time and then you crave more. Companies like Nestle, Pepsico and others need to be better regulated for sugar content in foods on a global scale.

[smotherb]

The Thais like spicy and the Thais like sweet; what is the big problem. I like it spicy, but do not like sweet. I have no problem at all getting food and drink without added sugar. I get my iced coffee black, with no milk or sugar. A lot of places have already made their drink mixes and they have been sweetened already. So, choose places where you get made to order foods and drinks.

[bazza40]

My wife says "sugar" is not an an essential part of Thai cooking.

She never uses stuff

In that case her cooking is going to be unbalanced. Crucial to every dish (and to every meal overall) is the balance of sour, sweet, salty, bitter, and spicy. Take away one element in a dish and the food is not going to be "right".

At the same time too much of one of the elements and the food will not be right either . And often one element will be deliberately overdone to cover up the lack of the chef's/ cook's skill.

Sugar is used in Thai cooking to dampen down the chili heat.

[PeCeDe]

It's much more complicated than that if you're talking about highly processed modern mass market foods.

People often are not making conscious choices.

Those are the CHEAPEST foods so that's what most people can afford to eat, most of the time.

That creates obesity promoting food environments and that is quite real.

As far as NYC, I don't think that law is actually in effect now and it wasn't a big deal anyway. Just order another drink if you want it.

Yes, sugar sodas are a good target, they have a SHOCKING amount of sugar in them, and most people really aren't fully aware of the dangers.

It's so easy to be SMUG about these issues and take a purist "libertarian" approach but I think that's extremely irresponsible. Think of the children. Many in the world, and in Thailand, are becoming obese at an early age, and statistically we know an obese child has a very high probability of being an obese adult, with chronic health problems and shortened life spans.

No of course there is no perfect answer that will prevent all problems. But social policies including from government, from local school leaders, etc. CAN at least put a dent in these problems, and surely that is better than doing NOTHING.

Cheers.

I don't believe I'm being smug when I say the more you eat, the fatter you'll get, just factual. As in the west, well directed education was and is the answer to cigarette smoking, not a total ban, and it's working! So too, well directed education re: food products and volume is the answer here, I was merely saying, there are products I like to eat and drink that are not good for me when taken to excess, but I don't want them removed from the market because some people cannot (were probably never taught) to control themselves, for example I like potato chips with salt, but I don't eat huge bags of the stuff on a daily basis, so why should I be deprived of a small pleasure because others make pigs of themselves? Same with sugar etc.

[Jingthing]

Actually, you've posted false information about cigarettes in the west. A large factor in reduction in consumption is because they are HEAVILY TAXED. Government policies. Duh!
Typical right wing libertarian ideology. Not interested in the public health. Just interested in this abstract concept of perfect and total personal freedom which doesn't exist in real life, in ANY nation, and never will, and rational people wouldn't want it to.

These obese societies that such mass social neglect is causing turns out to be a cost factor for the entire society ... nothing is free.

I won't get into here but you can easily find many studies proving that public education alone does NOT produce significant public health results in reducing obesity rates. Policies need to go a lot deeper than that, and yes, the mass market food companies need to be MADE to change. They will never do it voluntarily.

usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-09-10/cigarette-tax-smoking/57737774/1

A giant federal tobacco tax hike has spurred a historic drop in smoking, especially among teens, poor people and those dependent on government health insurance, a USA TODAY analysis finds.

...

"The federal tax increase was the win-win that we thought it would be and the evidence shows that," says Danny McGoldrick, research vice president at the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids.

Teen smoking immediately fell 10% to 13% when the tax hike took effect, says researcher Jidong Huang of the University of Illinois at Chicago. "High prices deter kids from picking up cigarettes," he says.

Price increases as well. Same thing as taxation. Increased price/reduced demand whether the price is part of a tax or not.

http://www.who.int/tobacco/economics/taxation/en/

The most effective approach to controlling the spread of tobacco use is through policies that directly reduce the demand for it. There are many valuable ways of going about this, from advertising bans to public smoking prohibitions, but the most potent and cost-effective option for governments everywhere is the simple elevation of tobacco prices by use of consumption taxes.

Evidence from countries of all income levels shows that price increases on cigarettes are highly effective in reducing demand. Higher prices induce cessation and prevent initiation of tobacco use. They also reduce relapse among those who have quit and reduce consumption among continuing users. On average, a 10% price increase on a pack of cigarettes would be expected to reduce demand for cigarettes by about 4% in high-income countries and by about 5% in low- and middle-income countries, where lower incomes tend to make people more sensitive to price changes. Children and adolescents are also more sensitive to price increases than adults, allowing price interventions to have a significant impact on this age group.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Jingthing

[smotherb]

Black Canyon has a Champ iced coffee which comes black and has no milk and little sugar, but you can order it with no sugar or even milk, if you want.

Edited November 1, 2015 by smotherb

[PeCeDe]

Actually, you've posted false information about cigarettes in the west. A large factor in reduction in consumption is because they are HEAVILY TAXED. Government policies. Duh!

Typical right wing libertarian ideology. Not interested in the public health. Just interested in this abstract concept of perfect and total personal freedom which doesn't exist in real life, in ANY nation, and never will, and rational people wouldn't want it to.

These obese societies that such mass social neglect is causing turns out to be a cost factor for the entire society ... nothing is free.

I won't get into here but you can easily find many studies proving that public education alone does NOT produce significant public health results in reducing obesity rates. Policies need to go a lot deeper than that, and yes, the mass market food companies need to be MADE to change. They will never do it voluntarily.

usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-09-10/cigarette-tax-smoking/57737774/1

A giant federal tobacco tax hike has spurred a historic drop in smoking, especially among teens, poor people and those dependent on government health insurance, a USA TODAY analysis finds.

...

"The federal tax increase was the win-win that we thought it would be and the evidence shows that," says Danny McGoldrick, research vice president at the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids.

Teen smoking immediately fell 10% to 13% when the tax hike took effect, says researcher Jidong Huang of the University of Illinois at Chicago. "High prices deter kids from picking up cigarettes," he says.

Hmm, perhaps we should agree to disagree, but I kinda like being called a right wing libertarian, it's got a nice ring to it... If I want to smoke, I can cross the road and buy a single cigarette for a couple of baht, taxes included, the fact I don't want to smoke is because I know it's not good for me, how do I know that? Because somebody took the time to educate me, not taxes. Realizing everybody's constitution is different, we still make decisions that affect our lives and health every day, but they are our decisions to make, not the government. What confuses me is that we will all die at some point and cost whoever's health system money, Quite frankly obese people probably cost the health system far more than smokers, smokers tend to die catastrophically and "relatively" quickly, whereas fit people tend to hang on ( sincerely, no offence to anyone intended) Teens in the US and Europe don't smoke as much as they used to because they are taught to hate it, they hate the smell, they hate the sight, same should be done with food additives and over eating, not Government interference.

I agree, that we should have a right to good, honest governance, peace and order, and a right to prosperity, and I also agree we need to pay for that, but I don't want big brother looking over my shoulder saying "you put too much sugar in that, I'm going to outlaw it"... It's my decision, no one else's.

[Inepto Cracy]

I was working here to bring turnkey dialysis offices to Thailand for rural areas.....The figures for diabetes here were mind blowing. This was twenty years ago......

NickJ, as a type 2 on an Insulin Pump, I also had thoughts and tried to get a programme going to increase awareness of diabetes, I found two main problems.

1. Thais think it is ok that they are like they are 'cos God them like that,

And the cost of treating Diabetes in Thailand is <deleted>' expensive.

Yes Thais can't learn, they have to burn their loved ones or themselves first, only then see the problem.I keep trying in my small way

Their common answer is it thai way.

There i

[aronp1]

My wife says "sugar" is not an an essential part of Thai cooking.

She never uses stuff

True, my wife says the same thing. Central Thai dishes don't have alot 9f sugar in them. It's the Thai's from the north that use alot of sugar and move down here and cook central Thai food and ruin it.

[DogNo1]

Has anybody noticed that the revamped school lunch programs in the US are failing? (See the health section of the NYT.) The kids just throw away fruit and vegetables. Some more thought is needed about how to provide relatively healthy food that the kids will eat. And no, dietary education doesn't seem to be very effective. I wonder what the solution is.

[ozyjon]

Thais probably confuse Sugar with MSG

My girl said to me once in regards to both

sugar and msg, if i not use food not taste

good,,yes my one who must be obeyed,

your going to kill me one way or another.

[Bcgardener]

Part of my original post was about the many different j of soi and milk drinks in the small kid size uht cartons. These pretty much all contain lots of sugar. I ways see kids sucking on one of these from a very young age creating the sugar addiction for later life. I'm really shocked by the state of the average 3 year old's teeth, mainly those from poorer families.

[Jingthing]

Yes you have to consciously try hard to avoid the sugar. The default is sugar overkill. Literally. It's so stupid. Thailand is in the earlier stages of this global epidemic. Aggressive action now could stem the tide. We all know that won't happen.

[csabo]

Sounds like the hundreds of glasses of lemonade with cups full of sugar in them when all I ordered (in Thai, some times by me, sometimes by the GF native speaker) was a club soda with lime. The ONLY shot you have at a coffee without sugar is order black coffee. Any alternate varieties will be sweetened with sugar heavily. Same issue with iced tea. I have given up this task completely to the GF who gets into borderline arguments when getting my tea without sugar. They act like I am breaking some law. Shockingly enough though, I was on a zero sugar kick a while ago and was routinely ordering foods with no added sugar and was always accommodated without issue.

[zzo]

A Thai friend said they had no sugar when she was a girl. It became "hi so" to use it. Another friend who owned a restaurant said he could NOT get his cook not to pour sugar in all the sauces. He gave up and quit trying to serve Italian food. I have heard that the Thai cooking classes use a lot also. I swear the cooked corn on the cob in Tops has been boiled with sugar water! Ugh!

These Thai kids are becoming little porkers!

[PeCeDe]

I was working here to bring turnkey dialysis offices to Thailand for rural areas.....The figures for diabetes here were mind blowing. This was twenty years ago......

NickJ, as a type 2 on an Insulin Pump, I also had thoughts and tried to get a programme going to increase awareness of diabetes, I found two main problems.

1. Thais think it is ok that they are like they are 'cos God them like that,

And the cost of treating Diabetes in Thailand is <deleted>' expensive.

Yes Thais can't learn, they have to burn their loved ones or themselves first, only then see the problem.I keep trying in my small way

Their common answer is it thai way.

There i

Thai people are not stupid like you portray, but as with everyone they need to be educated at an early age, and by Teachers who are dedicated and determined (squared) to get the point across. I have a friend here in Bangkok with type 2, he can only afford meds 3 weeks out of 4, I've seen him go in to coma's during his med free times... What can I do? Nothing, he still eats too much and drinks sugar like there's no tomorrow, I just know he'll be floating down the Chao Phraya anytime now.. Sorry. but legislation won't do it, determined and well aimed education will.

[TheKnave]

What is it with Italians and pasta?

[Matej]

I was working here to bring turnkey dialysis offices to Thailand for rural areas.....The figures for diabetes here were mind blowing. This was twenty years ago......

NickJ, as a type 2 on an Insulin Pump, I also had thoughts and tried to get a programme going to increase awareness of diabetes, I found two main problems.

1. Thais think it is ok that they are like they are 'cos God them like that,

And the cost of treating Diabetes in Thailand is <deleted>' expensive.

Yes Thais can't learn, they have to burn their loved ones or themselves first, only then see the problem.I keep trying in my small way

Their common answer is it thai way.

There i

Thai people are not stupid like you portray, but as with everyone they need to be educated at an early age, and by Teachers who are dedicated and determined (squared) to get the point across. I have a friend here in Bangkok with type 2, he can only afford meds 3 weeks out of 4, I've seen him go in to coma's during his med free times... What can I do? Nothing, he still eats too much and drinks sugar like there's no tomorrow, I just know he'll be floating down the Chao Phraya anytime now.. Sorry. but legislation won't do it, determined and well aimed education will.

Yes, Thai people are not stupid, but we all know they don't do anything unless something bad happen.

It's not only junk food. It's pretty much everything electricity, traffic you can go on and on ...

Health is a precious gift and it's way too easy to lose it.

When adults don't care it's their choice, but children and kids need good example, responsible parents and well balanced education system.

Too many times I've seen parents sitting back home watching ghost-like yolo people in TV while their children wander at night drunken or spreading legs just across the street ... and no care.

Someone posted that sugar consumption in the West far exceeds that of Thailand.

I dare to say that for central and eastern part of EU it not true, definitely not.

It's really extreme here ...

[Jaggg88]

It is very true that sugar in moderation is perfectly fine for most people. You can find the exact measurements where it become too much online. I don't bother with such things, just avoid it when I can, but yes a little IS needed for some dishes. I understand many people need some in coffee and tea. That is a matter of taste. I like bitter flavors.

Just because it is true that TOO MUCH sugar is associated with serious chronic health problems, and it is, it does not follow that means people need to eat NO SUGAR.

But this is complicated with processed foods like white rice which is basically quickly converted into sugar after eating it. So that's sugar too.

Fresh fruit is different ... it has sugars but the body processes it differently than more direct sugars, so it is much healthier.

As you have stated Jingthing its the white processed rice together with the added sugar that is fuelling the diabetes epidemic through out Asia. It hasn't been proven definitively yet but it pretty much accepted. Thais eat upto 4 portions of white rice a day and with sugar in stir fried dishes, noodles and sugar loaded drinks equals diabetes. My father inlaw died of diabetes complications plus my mother inlaw and sister inlaw both have diabetes - despite all this I cannot stop my wife eating white rice and sugary drinks.

[jmwpga]

Just look at a sampling of children 10 years old and younger and you get an idea of the obesity rate in this country. The West has moved here.

[mikiea]

Thai cooks have been putting sugar in things as long as I can remember. It's nothing new. The discovery that sugar is bad for you is very recent. Up until a year or two ago the enemy was fat.

huh ... ehhhh... a year or 2 ago ? good god man , read a little more ...........

[AyG]

Thai cooks have been putting sugar in things as long as I can remember. It's nothing new. The discovery that sugar is bad for you is very recent. Up until a year or two ago the enemy was fat.

huh ... ehhhh... a year or 2 ago ? good god man , read a little more ...........

Indeed. "Pure, White and Deadly" by John Yudkin, which brought the news of the dangers of sugar to the mass market, was published in 1972 - more than 40 years ago.

[Jingthing]

An interesting snippet about hidden sugar. It's everywhere!

http://firstwefeast.com/eat/every-food-is-crack-hyperbole-of-addictive-food-stories/

There is some real legitimacy to the fact that sugar is addictive and really screws with your body. According to Cardiologist Dr. James O’Keefe, “When we eat wheat flour and sugar in processed foods, [it] spikes our sugar, then insulin. Those are the hormonal disturbances that make you store belly fat, and then you are hungry for more sweets and starchy junk food.”

[eldragon]

The bigger question is why did the barista put sugar in your coffee after you clearly said you didn't want any.

[eldragon]

I don't totally agree.

I've avoided added sugar for years and don't eat desserts but I do eat fresh fruit.

Black coffee for me, no milk, no sugar, that's how I've always preferred it.

A som tum stall I used to go to was often over sugaring it, so I started asking for a little bit of sugar.

You DO need a little bit ... that's the recipe. It's palm sugar actually, the traditional Thai sugar.

Well a few times they just didn't put ANY in it and it tasted HORRIBLE.

Seriously, people who claim they don't eat any sugar, try that out and order that dish with NO sugar, and tell me that it's palatable, because it's not.

The same is probably true with some other typical Thai dishes like pad Thai, you DO need at least a little bit of sugar or it's just wrong.

This is true. Sugar creates a chemical reaction that breaks down certain ingredients and/or enhances their flavors. It balances certain dishes a bit and is necessary to achieve a good taste. But it does seem like certain vendors, restaurants, etc. get carried away with it, just like they do with MSG and Knorr.

[thehelmsman]

In Isaan sticky rice is eaten mainly. In out house we always have a pot of Steamed rice made fresh daily and sticky rice made fresh daily. My lady knows and understands the danger of eating too much rice, diabetes etc. I think we do a good job of not making rice mandatory for our meals. A soup dish for lunch or dinner. And the portions of steamed rice we eat are small. But, the MIL probably eats too much sticky rice.

[DogNo1]

Mikiea: I meant to say that the news that eating fat is OK and that sweet things, especially high-fructose corn syrup has only been publicised in the mainstream media recently. The old FDA food pyramid was debunked in the same Time magazine that had "Eat Butter" on the cover less than two years ago. Many doctors are still pushing a low-fat dirt and by default are driving people to eat carbs. Through my personal reading I have been informed of the desirability of eating full-fat foods and limiting carbs for quite a while.

[samsensam]

it's not only thailand, there is a frightening amount of sugar in many foods in the west and look at the amount of high sugar content drinks consumed in the west. so much so that there is lobbying in the uk for a sugar tax.