Time to reform education: PM Prayut

[pogal]

How can children and young adults change in education when the politicians cant accept change themselves. Sought of hypocritical really. the same message week in and year after year but no change. Yes get rid of multiple choice questions, instill academic riquor, eliminate cheating as an acceptable way to achieve and then you have a start in the right direction for change. I am not holding my breath.

What do you mean!? They have eliminated cheating!

https://frigginloon.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/anti-cheating.gif

[empireboy]

Will that include "educating" them about how to live under military rule?

[fred Kubasa]

Impossible to " REFORM " Thai education sysytem as it is not possible to

make a broken eggshell new again. Thai system is so racked with incompetence,obsolete curriculum,overpaid underperforming administrators, it must be

---- canned and total new, top down system initiated. Main problem is that, although every one, everywhere, knows the sysytem is broken , no one,

students/teachers/parents/administrators know nor care about fixing it. MostThai students under the Thai exclusive " NO FAIL PROGRAM " will go on to

careers as mini mart shelf fillers/maids/janitors and security guards !

The oncoming Asean, with job competitors coming from several advanced

nations will doom many, maybe most Thai young people !

Edited November 2, 2015 by fred Kubasa

[Nowisee]

What I know from living with someone with a doctorate in educational leadership who turned around 2 failing schools, opened a new STEM school and is now heading to the UAE to educate teachers in different concepts of teaching, is this country is in for a long long road of hard change in education...IF this guy is serious.

I believe these changes are going to have to come from people outside of thailand and they are going to have to be left alone to

do what they need to do...if not, they will leave and this effort will fail and back to same same no idea what 50% is or where is North.. get on the short bus.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Nowisee

[arrowsdawdle]

He pontificates that it's time for change in Thai education. It's been time for change for decades and decades, where has this guy been?

Overthrowing elected governments.

[arrowsdawdle]

Will that include "educating" them about how to live under military rule?

The term is indoctrinating.

[abitmiffed]

Not another hub!

Bit tough on the primary school level kids to focus on engineering (could wait until they finish year 12).

Bit is it tough?

Teach apples or spanners and nuts and bolts now and in 10yrs,,,,,, well think about it. My daughter is 4 and she knows what and how to use power tools.

Just a thought

Not a good one. Walk before you can run. Using a spanner or a powertool does not equate to the substance of engineering.

I beg to differ.

[realenglish1]

If you do not get students to start to "think out of the box" creating real problem solvers then you are not going to get real reform

Its that simple. RIght now they are given a box and told to think within the box. No change will come . But when you teach a student

to understand that he or she can cut holes in the box then you get creativity and problem solving solutions for everyone including Thai society and

and end to this childish political bickering that we now see among all the politicians and law makers.

Edited November 2, 2015 by realenglish1

[jacky54]

It's not an education system at all though is it, apart from learning to read and write Thai and all the nationalistic clap trap, that's about it

[SoilSpoil]

As long as the annual dog and pony shows are more important than academic development, any attempt to reform the system is futile.

To prepare for the yearly academic days and especially to make the exhibitions look pretty, I have about 3 weeks of classes cancelled. The irony!

Edited November 2, 2015 by SoilSpoil

[GAZZPA]

There's that word again "reform". Its like the yeti, everyones heard of it but nobody has every seen one up close.

It feels like the whole of Thailand is on a mythical quest to find the elusive lost reform scrolls... (Peter Jackson's future project perhaps)

So, from the quotation below, let me see if i get this right. Before the education reforms can be produced the current process needs to be reformed? This is because they need to deal with the detected flaws. Perhaps the process for detecting the flaws needs reforming too, and perhaps the process that reforms the process needs reforming.

Let me re write that in a sensible, logical way. The reforms need to address the current shortfalls in education in order to improve the quality of education offered to students all over Thailand. ta daaa!!!

Seriously, what a crock..

FOR education reform to materialise detected flaws need be fixed - such as reforming the process of assessing students and devising exams with more open-ended questions, Education Ministry permanent secretary Kamjorn Tatiyakavee has said.

[MaxLee]

He meant of course, time to brainwash the nation to put up shut up and do as you're told.....

[BlindMagician]

Not another hub!

Bit tough on the primary school level kids to focus on engineering (could wait until they finish year 12).

Bit is it tough?

Teach apples or spanners and nuts and bolts now and in 10yrs,,,,,, well think about it. My daughter is 4 and she knows what and how to use power tools.

Just a thought

Not a good one. Walk before you can run. Using a spanner or a powertool does not equate to the substance of engineering.

I beg to differ.

No need to beg :-)

[graemeaylward]

"The areas are merchant marines; rail transport; the petrochemical industry; electricity generation; tourism; food safety technology; and the mould industry".

Does anyone else find this amusing? It is rather cyclical don't you think? The mould industry creates the mould introduces it to the food and the food safety technologists eradicate it. Could keep people in jobs for decades

[Thai at Heart]

It first comes from everyone admitting honestly that the current system is very bad in comparison to other countries. Once this false pride is broken down change can come. Beating laos is no claim to fame.

[TechnikaIII]

Thai Education system needs to include knowledge of the rest of the world, ...Geography and History, but the most important thing a person ca learn in school is "How to Learn" which include good work habits and the ability to self educate! ... how to do research and find answers on their own!

I am amazed by the ignorance most thai people show about the rest of the world, ... for example - my ex-wife once asked me, "Australia, that is close to England isn't it? ... and she graduated from University. No wonder Thai University diploma are not recognized as having any merit outside Thailand.

Yep .. and my first girlfriend thought "Australia" was "Austria" with different spelling. She also had a university diploma.

At a primary school where I was seconded to teach English a few hours a week, the biggest education was for me, seeing how the Thai teachers conduct sessions. I was trying to stimulate enquiry, but every time I asked a student, or the whole class a question, she gave them the answer!! (She, the school head mistress, was sitting in the classroom, with the other teachers, all taking notes, as I wrote things on the blackboard.)

I tried to get her to shut up ... in every polite way possible, explaining it is for the children to think about the question and attempt to answer. But she was more intent on giving them a good impression in front of the foreign teacher.

( hopeless )

A young art student friend of mine, is insistent that she knows this, that and the other, because she already has a diploma ( of sorts ) .. but is now wanting to study at an art school overseas, the US, UK or Australia. I have been trying to get the message across that competition is fierce, and she needs more foundation study before she would even get past the first preselection. I've seen photos of the classes she attends in Nakhon Sawan. It's pathetic. .. all sitting at their tables, copying photographs. They have absolutely no idea. I told her she needs to draw from life, and she could bring a friend to my studio where I can give them some solid instruction ( I'm a professional artist with years of experience in art colleges ) ... ( maybe it will happen, it's up to them)

A young friend on Facebook, studying medicine, spends so much time on Facebook, I can't see her attaining the level of qualification I would need to trust in a doctor. .. Fwwwaaa .. hopeless!

On the other hand, a 23 yo Chinese student neighbour of where I am visiting in Norway just now, works so many hours, studying diligently for her Masters, .. she enjoys a refreshing 15 minute walk outside, but is then back to work. We have connected on Facebook for communication, but she's rarely online. She's an achiever.

...

Young Thai lady comes forth to nominate her father for a Nobel Prize. She is questioned with interest about what he has done. She explains with a smile, "He is out standing in his field". Which of course, is not quite the same as being "Outstanding in your field" ... Mai pen rai

[Jimdandy]

He pontificates that it's time for change in Thai education. It's been time for change for decades and decades, where has this guy been?

Probably in another country getting an education.

[onelasttime]

Hmmm, from reading some of the 'solutions' to the Thai education system, I see that a lot of our posters suffer from the same malaise as our dear general... 'Everybody thinks they are experts on education because they have all had a little bit of it.'

I'm not holding my breath that any meaningful change will happen in this lifetime.. or even the next.

[Traveling Sailor]

Will that include "educating" them about how to live under military rule?

The term is indoctrinating.

Or brainwashing.

[retarius]

General Prayut needs to learn t=some management skills. It is not possible for people to focus on everything. Sort out your 3 top priorities and focus on them. Putting a new initiative out every week and forming committees to examine the problems and report back in 3 months achieves absolutely zero results. If education is a priority then by all means focus on it, but surely with the culture of graft where the wealthy buy a 4.0 GPA in expensive schools and no-one fails has to be tackles BEFORE you bother about this stuff. How can you continue to churn out English graduates that don't speak the language? Maths teachers who can't do algebra and calculus? These people cannot possibly be the ones who will lead Thai children to excel in education so now is not the right time to change curricula to make it seem like you are doing something about the problem. The basic problem is that the teachers are not educated and qualified to teach. So go away and find a way to improve the quality and qualifications of teachers....the do something about the kids in a few years when you have some decent teachers. When not benchmark the teachers against some international norms? And kick out the teachers who don't measure up?

When the time is right and you have some teachers that can implement a better curriculum with some actual challenging academic work in it, get some external experts in to diagnose the deficiencies in the curriculum and teaching methods or hire McKinsey, but most importantly, listen to the findings and let that be the guide for designing a new system. Pick a benchmark and test yourself against the benchmark eg similar aged kids in other ASEAN countries and if you are not moving up the rankings some heads should roll especially people whose wealthy parents and family connections got them the appointment

[duanebigsby]

Okay

First things first.

REMOVE THE SOCIAL PASS. If a student can not function at a grade 3 level how the hell are they going to do any better in grade 4.

Get rid of the EP class system. It is only a way for schools to make more money not to provide students with better education.

Set up a set of tests that new teachers have to pass before they get their degree or licence to teach ( NES as well as Thai)

Look at the top countries for education and see what they are teaching. This excludes the US which is having major difficulties.

Establish a minimal line of what schools have to teach. Math, Thai, English, History, Geography and science.

Establish NATIONAL guidelines for what students are expected to learn in a year. Establish a national test that is NOT multiple choice that students in Matayom must pass.

Establish a system where universities get grant money or federal assistance dependent on their ranking as a school and the quality of the students that they graduate.

These are just the beginning of what is needed but would be a good starting point.

There is a bit of an oxymoron in your statements.

"Get rid of the social pass" and "look at the top countries for education". Finland, Japan, and Korea have no fail systems and are at the top of the list for good education systems.

It's how the system is implemented, not the no fail policy. In Thailand the failures aren't addressed, in those other countries the problem student is assessed and helped.

[Thai at Heart]

Okay

First things first.

REMOVE THE SOCIAL PASS. If a student can not function at a grade 3 level how the hell are they going to do any better in grade 4.

Get rid of the EP class system. It is only a way for schools to make more money not to provide students with better education.

Set up a set of tests that new teachers have to pass before they get their degree or licence to teach ( NES as well as Thai)

Look at the top countries for education and see what they are teaching. This excludes the US which is having major difficulties.

Establish a minimal line of what schools have to teach. Math, Thai, English, History, Geography and science.

Establish NATIONAL guidelines for what students are expected to learn in a year. Establish a national test that is NOT multiple choice that students in Matayom must pass.

Establish a system where universities get grant money or federal assistance dependent on their ranking as a school and the quality of the students that they graduate.

These are just the beginning of what is needed but would be a good starting point.

There is a bit of an oxymoron in your statements.

"Get rid of the social pass" and "look at the top countries for education". Finland, Japan, and Korea have no fail systems and are at the top of the list for good education systems.

It's how the system is implemented, not the no fail policy. In Thailand the failures aren't addressed, in those other countries the problem student is assessed and helped.

Japan and Korea don't have no fail systems. Tests are incredibly stressful for students there with suicide not uncommon.

[duanebigsby]

Okay

First things first.

REMOVE THE SOCIAL PASS. If a student can not function at a grade 3 level how the hell are they going to do any better in grade 4.

Get rid of the EP class system. It is only a way for schools to make more money not to provide students with better education.

Set up a set of tests that new teachers have to pass before they get their degree or licence to teach ( NES as well as Thai)

Look at the top countries for education and see what they are teaching. This excludes the US which is having major difficulties.

Establish a minimal line of what schools have to teach. Math, Thai, English, History, Geography and science.

Establish NATIONAL guidelines for what students are expected to learn in a year. Establish a national test that is NOT multiple choice that students in Matayom must pass.

Establish a system where universities get grant money or federal assistance dependent on their ranking as a school and the quality of the students that they graduate.

These are just the beginning of what is needed but would be a good starting point.

There is a bit of an oxymoron in your statements.

"Get rid of the social pass" and "look at the top countries for education". Finland, Japan, and Korea have no fail systems and are at the top of the list for good education systems.

It's how the system is implemented, not the no fail policy. In Thailand the failures aren't addressed, in those other countries the problem student is assessed and helped.

Japan and Korea don't have no fail systems. Tests are incredibly stressful for students there with suicide not uncommon.

Students are generally not held back in these systems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_grading_in_Japan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_grading_in_South_Korea

[kingstonkid]

Okay

First things first.

REMOVE THE SOCIAL PASS. If a student can not function at a grade 3 level how the hell are they going to do any better in grade 4.

Get rid of the EP class system. It is only a way for schools to make more money not to provide students with better education.

Set up a set of tests that new teachers have to pass before they get their degree or licence to teach ( NES as well as Thai)

Look at the top countries for education and see what they are teaching. This excludes the US which is having major difficulties.

Establish a minimal line of what schools have to teach. Math, Thai, English, History, Geography and science.

Establish NATIONAL guidelines for what students are expected to learn in a year. Establish a national test that is NOT multiple choice that students in Matayom must pass.

Establish a system where universities get grant money or federal assistance dependent on their ranking as a school and the quality of the students that they graduate.

These are just the beginning of what is needed but would be a good starting point.

There is a bit of an oxymoron in your statements.

"Get rid of the social pass" and "look at the top countries for education". Finland, Japan, and Korea have no fail systems and are at the top of the list for good education systems.

It's how the system is implemented, not the no fail policy. In Thailand the failures aren't addressed, in those other countries the problem student is assessed and helped.

However, at this point the no fail system is a joke and is producing high school graduates that can not read or write THAI.

I am teaching a Pratom 4 EP girls that does not know her abc in phonics and her parents think because she is in EP that she is getting the best education.

I taught Matayom classes where the EP students all lagged behind the students in the /2 classes and I was teaching the same lessons.

I sat in on a PRATOM 5 class where a young girl was sitting at a desk with a broken pencil drawing. The teacher taught everyone ad ignored her. Turns out she is mentally challenged but because daddy pays for her to attend she passes. She will graduate Matayom 6 and probably go on to university.

Look at the illiteracy rate in teh US.

I agree that if a system is set up properly maybe (big maybe tome) it might work BUT there are very few countries that have no FAIL that is is working.

[Ajahnski]

Let's have a little sympathy for the Thai teachers. I am, and have a couple family members who are, so I get a different perspective. Most of them know that they are in a failed system, and, for many of them, the system has beaten them and claimed their spirit. They don't want it this way, but they are in a system where the one that speaks out has to find a new job. (And,surprise, they are suddenly blacklisted too!) My family members HATE the system, but they love working with the kids. They are doing the best they can within a failed system that does not listen to anyone with real experience.

Are there some crappy teachers - yes. I have a couple of those at my school, and a couple others who are just slightly more lifelike than zombies after being in this system. The frontline teachers would be happy to learn and try new techniques - they are used to applauding stupid ideas, so an idea that could actually work would be like stepping into nirvana - but only if Bangkok can stop getting in the way of teaching.

I have a good imagination, and often comprehend unintended consequences by just looking at a planning document. For the life of me, I could not have dreamt up the Thai education system UNLESS my goal was to create an ignorant and easily controlled populace.

[z42]

Some interesting posts. I am just a bit shocked that limiting class sizes isn't even on the agenda.

50 students to 1 teacher and less than an hour a week to teach the material is a losing battle however it is dressed up.

But i honestly wouldn't expect anything of real substance to stem from this absurdly self titled super board. What a farce haha

[spidermike007]

Perhaps the best way to reform the system, is to ensure that the teachers understand their own material. In a recent study, 86% of the math teachers failed their own tests! How on earth can this happen? How do you teach, when you do not know the curriculum?

Next, it might help to encourage the students to challenge the teachers on their own material. No penalties or demerits. Just encouragement. Much progress and learning come from knocking those ajarns off their pedestals.

[duanebigsby]

Okay

First things first.

REMOVE THE SOCIAL PASS. If a student can not function at a grade 3 level how the hell are they going to do any better in grade 4.

Get rid of the EP class system. It is only a way for schools to make more money not to provide students with better education.

Set up a set of tests that new teachers have to pass before they get their degree or licence to teach ( NES as well as Thai)

Look at the top countries for education and see what they are teaching. This excludes the US which is having major difficulties.

Establish a minimal line of what schools have to teach. Math, Thai, English, History, Geography and science.

Establish NATIONAL guidelines for what students are expected to learn in a year. Establish a national test that is NOT multiple choice that students in Matayom must pass.

Establish a system where universities get grant money or federal assistance dependent on their ranking as a school and the quality of the students that they graduate.

These are just the beginning of what is needed but would be a good starting point.

There is a bit of an oxymoron in your statements.

"Get rid of the social pass" and "look at the top countries for education". Finland, Japan, and Korea have no fail systems and are at the top of the list for good education systems.

It's how the system is implemented, not the no fail policy. In Thailand the failures aren't addressed, in those other countries the problem student is assessed and helped.

However, at this point the no fail system is a joke and is producing high school graduates that can not read or write THAI.

I am teaching a Pratom 4 EP girls that does not know her abc in phonics and her parents think because she is in EP that she is getting the best education.

I taught Matayom classes where the EP students all lagged behind the students in the /2 classes and I was teaching the same lessons.

I sat in on a PRATOM 5 class where a young girl was sitting at a desk with a broken pencil drawing. The teacher taught everyone ad ignored her. Turns out she is mentally challenged but because daddy pays for her to attend she passes. She will graduate Matayom 6 and probably go on to university.

Look at the illiteracy rate in teh US.

I agree that if a system is set up properly maybe (big maybe tome) it might work BUT there are very few countries that have no FAIL that is is working.

I'm not advocating for the No fail system, just pointing out that three of top education systems in the world are using it.

They get away with it by also having ways to encourage and help the slower learners, to nurture the students through to a pass.

I've got M6 students who need their driver's license to write their names in English, so I know this system is ........ed