Taiwan, Chinese presidents to meet for first time since '49

[webfact]

Taiwan, Chinese presidents to meet for first time since '49
By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN and RALPH JENNINGS

BEIJING (AP) — The presidents of China and Taiwan will meet this weekend for the first time since civil war divided their lands 66 years ago, their governments said Wednesday, a highly symbolic move that reflects quickly improving relations between the formerly bitter Cold War foes.

The meeting Saturday in Singapore between Chinese President Xi Jinping and his Taiwanese counterpart Ma Ying-jeou could be China's last to press its case for closer economic and, ultimately political ties, before Taiwan elects a new president and legislature in January that could put the brakes on Ma's pro-China initiatives.

For Ma's ruling Nationalists, who have been lagging at the polls, it could boost their credentials for driving progress in relations with China, but also carries the risk of appearing too close to Beijing, further damaging their chances with skeptical voters.

Presidents of the two sides have not met since Chiang Kai-shek's Nationalists lost the Chinese civil war to Mao Zedong's Communists and the Nationalists rebased in Taiwan 160 kilometers (100 miles) away in 1949. The two sides have been separately ruled since then, with Taiwan evolving into a freewheeling democracy. China insists that the two sides eventually reunite, by force if necessary.

Confirmation of the meeting from Chinese Cabinet's Taiwan Affairs Office came hours after the Taiwanese side announced the meeting earlier Wednesday.

The two would be meeting in their capacity as "leaders of the two sides" of the Taiwan Strait, office director Zhang Zhijun was quoted as saying in a news release posted on the office's website.

That appeared to afford them equal status, possibly an effort to blunt criticism from the pro-independence opposition in Taiwan who accuse Ma's Nationalist Party of pandering to China's ruling Communists.

"This is a pragmatic arrangement under the situation of the irresolution of cross-strait political differences on the basis of the one-China principle," Zhang said, a reference to Beijing's insistence that Taiwan and the mainland are part of a single Chinese nation.

The two sides never talked formally until Ma, president since 2008, set aside old hostilities to allow lower-level official meetings. China and Taiwan have signed 23 deals covering mainly trade, transit and investment, binding Taiwan closer to its top trading partner and the world's second-largest economy.

Taiwanese presidential spokesman Charles Chen said in a statement Wednesday that the two would exchange ideas about relations but not sign any deals.

The choice of Singapore as venue was significant because the Southeast Asian city-state with an ethnic Chinese majority population has strong relations with both Taiwan and China and serves as neutral ground.

Singapore hosted breakthrough talks between unofficial Taiwanese and Chinese negotiators in 1992 that established a formula whereby they acknowledge that there is only one China, of which Taiwan is a part, but differ on the exact interpretation.

Although Beijing insists on the so-called "1992 consensus" as the basis for talks, Taiwan's main opposition Democratic Progressive Party has refused to embrace it, calling it meaningless and unrepresentative of popular sentiment on the island.

Ma is stepping down as president next year after his maximum two terms, and the DPP's candidate Tsai Ing-wen is considered the front-runner to replace him. A DPP victory could prompt a sweeping reassessment of its Taiwan polices by Beijing, which has hoped that economic inducements would lead to greater acceptance of eventual political unification.

Ma's government has come under increasing criticism at home for cozying up to China, amid fears Beijing will eventually leverage economic relations to exert more power over the island.

Such sentiments helped the DPP to a landslide victory a year ago in local elections, raising the possibility it might win not only the presidency but also a majority in legislative elections also being held Jan. 16.

Given the chances of a Nationalist defeat, China is likely to proceed cautiously to avoid further alienating Taiwanese voters.

Xi warned Taiwan in 2013 against putting off political differences from generation to generation. China has long advocated a Hong Kong-style one-country, two-system form of joint rule, in which Beijing controls Taiwan but the island of 23 million retains control of its political, legal and economic affairs.

That approach has little currency in Taiwan, where most favor the current state of de-facto independence.

The statement from Ma's spokesman said the two presidents will meet to "solidify Taiwan-mainland relations and keep the status quo across the Taiwan Strait."

"To hold a meeting across the Taiwan Strait is the consistent goal of leaders on both sides," Ma's spokesman said in the statement. "President Ma recently has repeated many times that 'at the right time and on the right occasion and in the right capacity' he would not rule out a meeting."

Taiwanese officials planned to hold a news conference about the Singapore meeting later Wednesday, and Ma planned to hold one on Thursday.

In Washington, White House spokesman Josh Earnest said the U.S. would welcome steps taken on both sides of the Taiwan Strait to try to reduce tensions and improve relations, but added, "we'll have to see what actually comes out of the meeting."

Ma is likely hoping for some reassurance from Xi over the use of force and closer economic ties that could help Nationalist Presidential candidate Eric Chu in the polls, said Hong Kong Chinese politics expert Willy Lam. Xi, for his part, likewise hopes a friendly, non-threatening meeting could give the Nationalists a boost, while showing a Chinese domestic audience that he could be the best bet in decades for achieving unification.

"This could be good for his reputation and a feather in his cap," said Lam.

While the meeting is meant to showcase the Nationalist's adeptness at dealing with China, it carries significant risks for the party, said Sean King, senior vice president with the consultancy Park Strategies in New York and a frequent commentator on Asian affairs.

"This meeting will only hurt the Nationalists at home, as it will cause them to even more be seen as Beijing's preferred Taiwan party," King said. "This could be the mainland's last chance to liaise with the Nationalist Party, while it's in power, for years to come."
____

Jennings reported from Taipei. Associated Press writers Ian Mader in Beijing and Matthew Pennington in Washington contributed to this report.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-11-04

[Somtamnication]

Chinese president: "Our missiles are larger than yours and we have over 10 million soldiers just across the way".

Taiwanese president: " Oh s..t, ok. Take island back, screw Chiang Kai Shek".

[Publicus]

Frankenstein meets the Wolfman as far as the voters of the Republic of China are concerned, which is what Taiwan is.

The independence Democratic Progressive Party candidate for prez in the January 16 election is averaging a 30-point lead in the polls.

In recent local elections, which are held the same day throughout the country, the DDP blew out the Nationalist KMT in even its historical stronghold of Taipei. Think of the Nationalist KMT party as today's Labour party in UK, the Conservatives in Canada, the Republican party in the US except that Prez Ma's KMT Nationalists make those parties look vibrant.

Last year the Sunflower Revolution sprouted in a persistent popular opposition to Prez Ma selling the ROC wholesale to the CCP Boyz of Beijing. The Sunflower coalition took control of the parliament building to prevent votes on further KMT treaties with Beijing giving more economic power and political clout to the Boyz.

The Sunflower Revolution coalition of students, professionals, the middle class, formed after the CCP Boyz had begun their campaign to control democracy in Hong Kong. Beijing has been provocatively dismantling the "one country two systems" original sin lie in both Hong Kong and Taiwan, which is why the Sunflower Revolution has joined with the Umbrella Revolution in Hong Kong to form a united front against the communist klutz dictators in Beijing.

The OP mentioned by name the KMT candidate Eric Chu but passed over mentioning that Chu last month was the KMT emergency replacement candidate for their original candidate who got dumped because he'd got to the point from starting out behind in the polls to being slaughtered in the polls. Chu however is doing even worse because it makes no difference, i.e., the Nationalist KMT is now a suicidally dead political party. The Nationalist KMT led by Ma has been so sellout pro-Beijing even 54% of its own supporters have rejected it.

This meeting in Singapore is the last hurrah of the KMT in the Republic of China (Taiwan). It will also be the last time a Beijing CCP leader will meet with a leader of Taiwan who is a friend of the CCP Boyz of Beijing. Beginning in January, the independence Democratic Progressive Party will have its candidate Tsai Ing-wen become known as Madam President. From then forward it will be a reversal of Ma's agreements with Beijing and the beginning of a deep freeze in ROC-PRC relations, while Taiwan works in support of democracy movements in Hong Kong.

The Economist article is from last year but is reproduced here because it was prescient:

Hong Kong and Taiwan: Losing hearts and minds

Dissatisfaction with China in Hong Kong and Taiwan shows up on the streets and at the polls. The causes are strikingly similar

THE Communist Party’s strategy for bringing the self-governing people of Taiwan into its fold has long been tricky seduction. Ply them with money and favours (and tourists from the mainland) if they play along, and with threats of cutting them off if they don’t. Let them see how happy and prosperous the people of nearby Hong Kong are under Chinese rule.

That strategy is faltering. China is not winning hearts and minds in either Taiwan or Hong Kong. Voters in regional and municipal elections in Taiwan delivered a drubbing to the ruling Kuomintang party (KMT), which under President Ma Ying-jeou has forged closer economic links with Communist leaders in Beijing but has failed to soothe widespread dissatisfaction with the economy.

http://www.economist.com/news/china/21635515-dissatisfaction-china-hong-kong-and

Edited November 4, 2015 by Publicus

[Publicus]

The first public statement by the independence Democratic Progressive Party of this surprise and shock meeting is that the meeting contradicts Prez Ma's pledges that such a summit would only occur

1) when the nation needs it

2) the public supports it

3) the legislature supervises its process

None of the three elements are present.

Prez Ma's KMT is anyway desperate at this point , having been wiped clean in the local and regional elections, to include their historic stronghold of Taipei, and all of this year running far behind the DPP in all the polling for the Jan 16 general election. The Taiwan public has probably not been this hostile to the mainland since the days Chiang Kai Shek was still alive. And it's ironically Chiang's KMT party that has been selling out Taiwan to Beijing,

It is noted that Xi and Ma will have dinner together and that each will refer to the other as 'mister' rather than by any title, as Beijing does not consider Ma to the president of anything and Ma still doesn't risk calling Xi president either given the CCP Boyz consider Taiwan a province.

One political commentator in the Taipei Times called the meeting, "A closeout sale by the KMT before it gets kicked out of the premises."

The US just this week announced the sale of a bunch of naval frigates to Taiwan so maybe Xi and Ma can discuss that and the SCS.

[ggt]

This should not come as a big surprise...the world is a changing...the US is seen as less dependable than it once was with a history of failed foreign policy and unsatisfactory results in the many wars the US starts as it is in the "security and interest" of the US...

China is the new big kid on the block...lives right next door...and has thus far been fairly respectful...

China is challenging US dominance in economic strength...militarily...and has more influence in the world than ever before...

Taiwan is making an effort to extend a hand of friendship...to let China know that the (interests of) the US does not dictate Taiwan's future...

[Publicus]

This should not come as a big surprise...the world is a changing...the US is seen as less dependable than it once was with a history of failed foreign policy and unsatisfactory results in the many wars the US starts as it is in the "security and interest" of the US...

China is the new big kid on the block...lives right next door...and has thus far been fairly respectful...

China is challenging US dominance in economic strength...militarily...and has more influence in the world than ever before...

Taiwan is making an effort to extend a hand of friendship...to let China know that the (interests of) the US does not dictate Taiwan's future...

Taiwan Prez Ma can speak pretty realistically to Xi Jinping during their scheduled dinner during which each will refer to the other as 'mister.' So one should expect Ma will do that, and one should expect Xi wants an 'honest' discussion. Xi wants to know what in Ma's judgement Xi and the CCP Boyz can expect from the new Democratic Progressive Party president Tsai Ing-wen once she gets the expected election mandate to break from Ma's kissarse policies toward the CCP Boyz and to in fact reverse them.

The Sunflower Movement begun last year is the vanguard of this reversal of attitude on the island. The world is changing and so is the USA which has a black president and itself may well have a woman as its next president too. The times they are indeed 'a changin' as the USA right keeps losing its battles of a lifetime, since the 1960s that are rooted in the Vietnam Civil War intervention.

What looked good to Taiwanese when they elected Ma back in 2008 and reelected him in 2012 suddenly hasn't looked so good since. In fact, given Hong Kong democracy and prosperity being also under assault by Beijing, it looks absolutely awful and abysmally irreversible over there on the mainland.

Societe Generale is only the latest global financial institution to publish a new report (this week) that foresees a "lost decade" coming for the CCP China. But SocGen doesn't mean a stagnancy such as Japan experienced.

For the CCP the "lost decade" that has already begun is a downslide of, variously, bumps, crumblings, collisions, crashes. The reforms needed there aren't happening because the mainland Chinese are savers, not consumers and you'd be a saver too if the CCP were your government and single party state. The strict Maoist militant opponents of reform absolutely do not want the Chinese to engage in American-style consumption due to the demand and strain on resources they see it imposing on the huge nation of China.

The Republic of China, i.e., Taiwan, will meanwhile do just fine renewing its connections to Japan, Singapore, Asean, the USA et al. The people of the CCP China see a democratic and prosperous Taiwan, Hong Kong, South Korea, Japan, Asean increasingly etc etc. So the CCP isn't fooling too many of their CCP Chinese, especially as the command economy model based in an unprecedentedly massive corruption has begun to collapse. The CCP Boyz in Beijing are in fact fooling more people outside of the CCP China than they are fooling people in it.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Publicus

[ggt]

This should not come as a big surprise...the world is a changing...the US is seen as less dependable than it once was with a history of failed foreign policy and unsatisfactory results in the many wars the US starts as it is in the "security and interest" of the US...

China is the new big kid on the block...lives right next door...and has thus far been fairly respectful...

China is challenging US dominance in economic strength...militarily...and has more influence in the world than ever before...

Taiwan is making an effort to extend a hand of friendship...to let China know that the (interests of) the US does not dictate Taiwan's future...

Taiwan Prez Ma can speak pretty realistically to Xi Jinping during their scheduled dinner during which each will refer to the other as 'mister.' So one should expect Ma will do that, and one should expect Xi wants an 'honest' discussion. Xi wants to know what in Ma's judgement Xi and the CCP Boyz can expect from the new Democratic Progressive Party president Tsai Ing-wen once she gets the expected election mandate to break from Ma's kissarse policies toward the CCP Boyz and to in fact reverse them.

The Sunflower Movement begun last year is the vanguard of this reversal of attitude on the island. The world is changing and so is the USA which has a black president and itself may well have a woman as its next president too. The times they are indeed 'a changin' as the USA right keeps losing its battles of a lifetime, since the 1960s that are rooted in the Vietnam Civil War intervention.

What looked good to Taiwanese when they elected Ma back in 2008 and reelected him in 2012 suddenly hasn't looked so good since. In fact, given Hong Kong democracy and prosperity being also under assault by Beijing, it looks absolutely awful and abysmally irreversible over there on the mainland.

Societe Generale is only the latest global financial institution to publish a new report (this week) that foresees a "lost decade" coming for the CCP China. But SocGen doesn't mean a stagnancy such as Japan experienced.

For the CCP the "lost decade" that has already begun is a downslide of, variously, bumps, crumblings, collisions, crashes. The reforms needed there aren't happening because the mainland Chinese are savers, not consumers and you'd be a saver too if the CCP were your government and single party state. The strict Maoist militant opponents of reform absolutely do not want the Chinese to engage in American-style consumption due to the demand and strain on resources they see it imposing on the huge nation of China.

The Republic of China, i.e., Taiwan, will meanwhile do just fine renewing its connections to Japan, Singapore, Asean, the USA et al. The people of the CCP China see a democratic and prosperous Taiwan, Hong Kong, South Korea, Japan, Asean increasingly etc etc. So the CCP isn't fooling too many of their CCP Chinese, especially as the command economy model based in an unprecedentedly massive corruption has begun to collapse. The CCP Boyz in Beijing are in fact fooling more people outside of the CCP China than they are fooling people in it.

Good read...you may be spot on with the Chinese...but a bit delusional about US politics...

The first woman President will not be Hillary Clinton...women voters who are turned off by her propensity for misrepresenting facts will be her undoing...IMHO...