Pai: British rape victim speaks up about ordeal

[elenajkelly]

Don't tell me what to wear, when I can drink and how much. Tell men that can not under any circumstances rape! No more shaming the victim.

[FolkGuitar]

Don't tell me what to wear, when I can drink and how much. Tell men that can not under any circumstances rape! No more shaming the victim.

No one should ever tell you what to wear, nor when or how much to drink. That is your decision, and only yours.

We understand that rape is a crime, and the only one to blame for it is the rapist. No one else is ever the blame for this crime.

Question: Will YOU walk down a dark street at 2am in a foreign country while drunk? Remember, you are perfectly within your rights to do so. Will you do it?

[MaeJoMTB]

Don't tell me what to wear, when I can drink and how much. Tell men that can not under any circumstances rape! No more shaming the victim.

Why not?

The General thinks he can, and his word is law!

And you're in his country.

Hope you enjoy your trip to Somalia and Afghanistan, don't forget your bikini tops.

[Chicog]

Those saying the victim acted carelessly here are of the same mentality as the story which describes a Thai and a foreigner in an accident, and the Thai says 'It's your fault because this is my country, and if you weren't here, this wouldn't have happened'. Well, if she wasn't in Pai that night, she wouldn't have gotten raped by Sankamphaeng Somchai.

Don't be so ridiculous.

Saying that she put herself at risk and saying that rape is inexcusable are not mutually exclusive statements.

[Alration]

It might have been high risk behaviour but this poor girl isn't to blame - she's the victim here.

The article also says she was made to pay for her own rape test.

No, it doesn't say that at all, the Tourist Police paid for it, that's what it says.

[Alration]

Isn't it still a 'he said' 'she said' thing ? He must of talked very good english when drunk.

No. it's a "he admitted it and there's a DNA result confirming it" thing.

"He must of talked very good english when drunk."

You really can't read, can you? He spoke Thai.

[Alration]

Isn't it still a 'he said' 'she said' thing ? He must of talked very good english when drunk.

Some strange language inconsistencies here,

She doesn't speak Thai, he is a Thai construction worker who presumably can't speak English.

She was humiliated in the hospital by what they were saying, but she doesn't speak Thai.

So how did everyone communicate?

Not to mention, young, female, drunk and alone in a 3rd world country at night seems a little foolish.

Sorry,

No excuse for rape, but little excuse for stupid either.

"...but little excuse for stupid either."

You're so right about that, in the report she said that she has been here before and understands a little Thai but you need to be able to read to see that.

[Alration]

I agree MTB, more to this than meets the eye as usual. Sorry to say but she has only herself to blame if she actually did get raped at all.

So you're disputing the hospital's rape test and disregarding the confession?

[Alration]

I agree MTB, more to this than meets the eye as usual. Sorry to say but she has only herself to blame if she actually did get raped at all.

Lots of false accusations of rape by drunk foreign female tourists in Thailand.

(at least two in the last year disproved by video evidence later).

What evidence has been offered here? None!

How do we know this isn't another false accusation?

PS

I fully agree, rape is wrong, and rapists should be severely punished.

But accusations as in this case, why is the guy always guilty without trial or evidence?

PPS

Even western police wouldn't prosecute with the evidence stated her.

The guy would be pulled in, questioned, then released without charge.

Do you two belong to some kind of rapists club?

"What evidence has been offered here? None! How do we know this isn't another false accusation?"

How about the rape test done by the hospital?!

[Robert24]

I agree MTB, more to this than meets the eye as usual. Sorry to say but she has only herself to blame if she actually did get raped at all.

So you're disputing the hospital's rape test and disregarding the confession?

to be fair it looks like a clear case, but one should always wait for the verdict in court.

[FolkGuitar]

Isn't it still a 'he said' 'she said' thing ? He must of talked very good english when drunk.

Some strange language inconsistencies here,

She doesn't speak Thai, he is a Thai construction worker who presumably can't speak English.

She was humiliated in the hospital by what they were saying, but she doesn't speak Thai.

So how did everyone communicate?

Not to mention, young, female, drunk and alone in a 3rd world country at night seems a little foolish.

Sorry,

No excuse for rape, but little excuse for stupid either.

"...but little excuse for stupid either."

You're so right about that, in the report she said that she has been here before and understands a little Thai but you need to be able to read to see that.

There are a LOT of inconsistencies;

1a. “I was not going to have an argument with him in the middle of the jungle"

1b. "I was fighting him the whole time"

Which was it?

2a. "He spoke in Thai the whole time, but I understood a little, having been here so often, not much."

2b. " (he) began crying and telling me how much he loved me, how he wanted to marry me and that he was sorry."

The typical tourist doesn't pick up this sort of language, much less learn to understand it when spoke by a drunk in the middle of a traumatic incident...

But these are neither here nor there... If she said "NO" at ANY point, it was rape. That much is very clear. She is NOT to blame for being raped. There is no excuse for rape.

But as MaeJoMTB said, there is no excuse for stupid either. His behavior was criminal. Her behavior was just plain stupid. You don't get into (or onto) a vehicle with a stranger in the middle of the night in the jungle.

Edited November 5, 2015 by FolkGuitar

[off road pat]

Some really sick people here on TV,.....Nobody has the right to rape because the person is drunk or dressed to sexy ...NOBODY has that right....!!!!

The girl just wanted to have a good time without any problems like we all wanted so many times in our lives.

the same day probably a few thousand girls got home drunk without any problem.....a few thousand got driven home by a friend or stranger without any problem,....

my heart cries for that unlucky girl....

Off road Pat,...

[Robert24]

Isn't it still a 'he said' 'she said' thing ? He must of talked very good english when drunk.

Some strange language inconsistencies here,

She doesn't speak Thai, he is a Thai construction worker who presumably can't speak English.

She was humiliated in the hospital by what they were saying, but she doesn't speak Thai.

So how did everyone communicate?

Not to mention, young, female, drunk and alone in a 3rd world country at night seems a little foolish.

Sorry,

No excuse for rape, but little excuse for stupid either.

"...but little excuse for stupid either."

You're so right about that, in the report she said that she has been here before and understands a little Thai but you need to be able to read to see that.

There are a LOT of inconsistencies;

1a. “I was not going to have an argument with him in the middle of the jungle"

1b. "I was fighting him the whole time"

Which was it?

2a. "He spoke in Thai the whole time, but I understood a little, having been here so often, not much."

2b. " (he) began crying and telling me how much he loved me, how he wanted to marry me and that he was sorry."

The typical tourist doesn't pick up this sort of language, much less learn to understand it when spoke by a drunk in the middle of a traumatic incident...

But these are neither here nor there... If she said "NO" at ANY point, it was rape. That much is very clear. She is NOT to blame for being raped. There is no excuse for rape.

But as MaeJoMTB said, there is no excuse for stupid either. His behavior was criminal. Her behavior was just plain stupid. You don't get into (or onto) a vehicle with a stranger in the middle of the night in the jungle.

as for inconsistencies: I wouldn't read too much into this. I mean this story is from a journalist, we don't know how accurate all the info is. Hence why I would defer any judgement to the court or police who will have all the relevant facts. To me at first glance the confession and DNA evidence would indicate a clear case. But who knows.

[Alration]

There are a LOT of inconsistencies;

1a. “I was not going to have an argument with him in the middle of the jungle"

1b. "I was fighting him the whole time"

Which was it?

2a. "He spoke in Thai the whole time, but I understood a little, having been here so often, not much."

2b. " (he) began crying and telling me how much he loved me, how he wanted to marry me and that he was sorry."

The typical tourist doesn't pick up this sort of language, much less learn to understand it when spoke by a drunk in the middle of a traumatic incident...

But these are neither here nor there... If she said "NO" at ANY point, it was rape. That much is very clear. She is NOT to blame for being raped. There is no excuse for rape.

But as MaeJoMTB said, there is no excuse for stupid either. His behavior was criminal. Her behavior was just plain stupid. You don't get into (or onto) a vehicle with a stranger in the middle of the night in the jungle.

Try reading her report again, slowly, it's not difficult to understand that she was trying to fight the rapist off but afterwards she was trying to ensure nothing else happened to her. That's why she didn't want to argue.

[MaeJoMTB]

I mean this story is from a journalist, we don't know how accurate all the info is. Hence why I would defer any judgement to the court or police who will have all the relevant facts. To me at first glance the confession and DNA evidence would indicate a clear case. But who knows.

I can't tell if anything is accurate, accusation, DNA test, or confession.

But I can predict the final outcome.

The tourist will go home, with or without retracting her accusation, all charges will be quietly dropped.

Can't see her hanging around for another six months to a year while the case goes to court.

It's always the same, the 'hang em high' brigade scream and shout, months later the real facts start to appear, usually in complete opposition to the original headlines, everyone loses interest, no convictions, rarely a court hearing.

Not to forget the random feminist post, claiming she can do anything she likes anywhere in the world. There's always one of those.

Edited November 5, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[FolkGuitar]

Some strange language inconsistencies here,

She doesn't speak Thai, he is a Thai construction worker who presumably can't speak English.

She was humiliated in the hospital by what they were saying, but she doesn't speak Thai.

So how did everyone communicate?

Not to mention, young, female, drunk and alone in a 3rd world country at night seems a little foolish.

Sorry,

No excuse for rape, but little excuse for stupid either.

"...but little excuse for stupid either."

You're so right about that, in the report she said that she has been here before and understands a little Thai but you need to be able to read to see that.

There are a LOT of inconsistencies;

1a. “I was not going to have an argument with him in the middle of the jungle"

1b. "I was fighting him the whole time"

Which was it?

2a. "He spoke in Thai the whole time, but I understood a little, having been here so often, not much."

2b. " (he) began crying and telling me how much he loved me, how he wanted to marry me and that he was sorry."

The typical tourist doesn't pick up this sort of language, much less learn to understand it when spoke by a drunk in the middle of a traumatic incident...

But these are neither here nor there... If she said "NO" at ANY point, it was rape. That much is very clear. She is NOT to blame for being raped. There is no excuse for rape.

But as MaeJoMTB said, there is no excuse for stupid either. His behavior was criminal. Her behavior was just plain stupid. You don't get into (or onto) a vehicle with a stranger in the middle of the night in the jungle.

as for inconsistencies: I wouldn't read too much into this. I mean this story is from a journalist, we don't know how accurate all the info is. Hence why I would defer any judgement to the court or police who will have all the relevant facts. To me at first glance the confession and DNA evidence would indicate a clear case. But who knows.

True... As I said, they are neither here nor there. If she said "NO" at ANY point, it was rape.

[MaeJoMTB]

True... As I said, they are neither here nor there. If she said "NO" at ANY point, it was rape.

I think you mean "If she said NO at any point prior to intercourse"

Which even then is a western attitude. Let's not even go the 'informed consent' route.

Thai law tends to take the viewpoint, if you went somewhere alone with a guy, that was consent enough.

Which is another reason all these cases go nowhere,

The Thais don't see it as rape, the policeman making the statement saw whatever happened as her own fault.

The hospital staff saw it as her own fault.

The guy running the country would see it as her own fault.

Thailand isn't quite as extreme as India or the Taliban, who would probably stone her to death, but closer to Afghanistan than they are to the west in their attitude.

Edited November 5, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[Chicog]

True... As I said, they are neither here nor there. If she said "NO" at ANY point, it was rape.

I think you mean "If she said NO at any point prior to intercourse"

Which even then is a western attitude. Let's not even go the 'informed consent' route.

Thai law tends to take the viewpoint, if you went somewhere alone with a guy, that was consent enough.

Which is another reason all these cases go nowhere,

The Thais don't see it as rape, the policeman making the statement saw whatever happened as her own fault.

The hospital staff saw it as her own fault.

The guy running the country would see it as her own fault.

Thailand isn't quite as extreme as India or the Taliban, who would probably stone her to death, but closer to Afghanistan than they are to the west in their attitude.

The Thais would see it as rape if it were a hiso's daughter.

They don't give much of a stuff about farm girls or foreigners.

[FolkGuitar]

True... As I said, they are neither here nor there. If she said "NO" at ANY point, it was rape.

I think you mean "If she said NO at any point prior to intercourse"

Which even then is a western attitude. Let's not even go the 'informed consent' route.

Thai law tends to take the viewpoint, if you went somewhere alone with a guy, that was consent enough.......................

...........................

No... I mean if she said 'no' at any point, and the attacker didn't stop, it was rape.

In the event of physical aggression against an individual, especially when one is physically stronger than the other, I need to go along with my own understanding of morality. I think any physical attack against another person is a violation of that person, regardless of how the 'local' laws may interpret it. Obviously that wouldn't stand up in court here in Thailand, or in, as you say India or Afghanistan, but it permits me to sleep better at night.

To me, no means no regardless of when it is said.

Edited November 5, 2015 by FolkGuitar

[MiKT]

I feel sorry for this person even though she is a lesbian she has had a catastrophic time all round gross ineptitude by all parties involved, although the police paid for the rape test which in this case should have been free more could have been done to help her and this is certainly not good for tourism .

"even though she is a lesbian" so do you think she should have a big tattoo on her forehead saying "please rape me I am a lesbian and I need you to cure me of this terrible affliction" This is the way your post and a whole lot of other disgusting posts read on this forum. She knows Thailand and she was extrodinarily knowledgable about what to do if raped and outstandingly brave to keep her wits about her and do all the right things that probably saved her life even though they must have disgusted her at the time. She deserves only sympathy and commendation for going to the police. She like all the dipsos on this forum has every right to go out and get drunk and have fun with her friends. Nothing can excuse rape. She seems to be an exceptionally brave woman and I think (and hope) this will enable her to recover from this terrible experience and not let it blight the rest of her life. Her sexual choices are hers and hers alone, jokes about lesbians have no place in a story about rape. Man rape is popular in some countries, but that wont stop men going out and getting drunk. There are no excuses for rape.

[FolkGuitar]

I feel sorry for this person even though she is a lesbian she has had a catastrophic time all round gross ineptitude by all parties involved, although the police paid for the rape test which in this case should have been free more could have been done to help her and this is certainly not good for tourism .

"even though she is a lesbian" so do you think she should have a big tattoo on her forehead saying "please rape me I am a lesbian and I need you to cure me of this terrible affliction" This is the way your post and a whole lot of other disgusting posts read on this forum. She knows Thailand and she was extrodinarily knowledgable about what to do if raped and outstandingly brave to keep her wits about her and do all the right things that probably saved her life even though they must have disgusted her at the time. She deserves only sympathy and commendation for going to the police. She like all the dipsos on this forum has every right to go out and get drunk and have fun with her friends. Nothing can excuse rape. She seems to be an exceptionally brave woman and I think (and hope) this will enable her to recover from this terrible experience and not let it blight the rest of her life. Her sexual choices are hers and hers alone, jokes about lesbians have no place in a story about rape. Man rape is popular in some countries, but that wont stop men going out and getting drunk. There are no excuses for rape.

Good rant... Would you please show us any post that is making an excuse for rape. I can't find any in this thread.

[Cook my sock]

Brave lady. After all she was put through she talked her way out of possibly being killed.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Cook my sock

[Puwa]

555 you think the problem is that I don't comprehend what you are saying. That's hilarious, thanks for the laugh.

Of all the things one might post in response to this harrowing experience, you choose not to condemn the attacker, commend the brave victim, appreciate the additional information, point out good police work, or wish for her speedy recovery, but to blame the victim. Yes, we know your reply will start with, "I was only pointing out that..." but my point, and my question, is why you chose to do so. Public service?

I obviously don't know what exactly happened but I must say that she has been a bit careless to say the least to end up alone without friends, probably intoxinated, at 2am in Pai. And then ask some drunk man to give her a ride back to her guesthouse which was way out of town. It's just high risk behaviour.

I'm not sure where you get to with your point about Public service. I was pointing out my opinion nothing else. Being female, alone, possibly drunk at 2am in the morning, in a deserted small town is probably nowhere in the world a safe situation to be in, not in England nor in Thailand. By getting into that situation, she became vulnerable to be exploited by someone and that's what happened. I hope other people learn from this incident and are more careful. That's all I'm saying. I'm not defending the criminal here, they caught him, he will have to face justice and if guilty he will spend a lot of time behind bars.

Let me give you a less violent example hopefully to explain my point. Let's assume you leave your tablet on the front seat in your car when park at a shopping mall and you don't lock the car. When you come back you realise someone's stolen your tablet from your car. Now clearly that situation doesn't justify it for the thief to steal the tablet, but you were careless in leaving a) the tablet in the car visible from the outside and you left the car unlocked. Hope that analogy explains my point.

[Cook my sock]

Yup it made your point alright

If there was ever a clearer 'she deserved it' analogy, let me know

[JungleBiker]

Putting herself into a situation where she could get victimized? That IS her fault.

Who in their right mind... drinks to excess?

The young woman should not be allowed out of her house without parental supervision.

...the fact is, crime exists.

Hmm... What makes you think she was drunk? That's what the police implied, but it doesn't mean it's true.

Yes, crime exists - it can happen anywhere, anytime.

Fortunately, it doesn't happen to all of us, every day, so we tend to think it only happens to certain people who do such and such a thing in a particular place at a particular time.

But that's not the reality.

So, following your own advice, if you really want to avoid being a murder victim, lock yourself in your house and never open the door. Ever.

[crusader79]

Sometimes I wonder what sickness afflicts some posters on here who continually blame foreign victims at the hand of Thai criminals. It is not OK to rape. It s not OK to commit fraud. It s not OK to be scammed deceived or the host of other crimes that are committed on foreigners as well as Thais. It is not OK to say that it happened because she was drunk, or he was defrauded because ..... Insert any excuse depending on the facts of the crime. It is not OK for the police to excuse these scum Thai criminals by feeble and morning excuses and it is not OK for the courts to be overtly racist as they are. The purpose of the law is to provide a society that offers some level of safety to every person not to excuse Thais just because they are Thai and the victim foreign.

That foreigners continually post in here supporting or excusing the Thais is just disgusting. I can't imagine the same excuses being trotted out if it was a foreigner who committed the crime and that is what is disgusting. It is reverse racism and plain stupid.

I see the problem as less to do with Thailand and more that worldwide, both men and women tend to blame rape victims for their victimization. Look at the Bill Cosby situation, the internet is full of comments blaming what, 50 women? Humans are a strange breed.

[Gonzo the Face]

Don't tell me what to wear, when I can drink and how much. Tell men that can not under any circumstances rape! No more shaming the victim.

That which you seem to have interpreted from this entire thread and the vehemence and forcefulness of your reply, encourages me to ask................ are you a blonde??

[FolkGuitar]

Putting herself into a situation where she could get victimized? That IS her fault.

Who in their right mind... drinks to excess?

The young woman should not be allowed out of her house without parental supervision.

...the fact is, crime exists.

1. Hmm... What makes you think she was drunk? That's what the police implied, but it doesn't mean it's true.

2. So, following your own advice, if you really want to avoid being a murder victim, lock yourself in your house and never open the door. Ever.

1. This thread can only deal with what was written. We have no actual proof that the entire incident actually occurred... other than it was reported. We have to start somewhere. Even if she had been stone-cold sober, do you think it's wise for a young woman alone to be getting into or onto vehicles with strangers on dark rural roads at 2am in a foreign country where she really doesn't speak the language? Would you suggest trying this to your daughter?

2. Read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote. I stated quite clearly that there is NO fool-proof way to avoid becoming a victim. There ARE steps that can be taken to reduce the risk.

Did you teach your children NOT to talk to strangers? Did you teach them NOT to get into cars with strangers? Did you teach them NOT to walk alone on dark, deserted streets late at night? These are the steps to reduce the risk of them becoming a victim, while still getting on with our lives. We can ONLY reduce the chances of becoming victimized. Until there is no such thing as 'crime,' we can never really eliminate it completely, even by locking yourself in your house.

So I ask you the same questions that I've put to others: would you let your daughter travel alone, drunk, at 2am, get into or onto vehicles with a stranger on a rural back road in your own country? Now imagine if your daughter couldn't speak the language of the country in which she is alone, drunk, at 2am on a rural back road.... Would you tell her it was a good idea?

Edited November 6, 2015 by FolkGuitar

[jacko45k]

The biggest mistake she made was believing that all the 'smiles' in the Land of Smiles are genuine.

Yes, the smile and friendliness, on top of the tropical environment and alcohol are disarming.

The reality that it might be difficult to get home escaped her.

She engaged in very risky behaviour, and was silly to not stick with her friends......

Of course I do not say it was her fault, but to be out drinking, late at night, with no get home plan is stupidity.

[LarryBird]

The problem with the people blaming her for being out at that time of night, etc is that they just offer NOTHING to the discussion. If she was wearing a chastity belt or carrying mace/a gun she also could have prevented this from happening. No one is saying it's a great idea to wonder the streets at night alone, but mentioning just contributes absolutely nothing of substance. There are interesting aspects of the story here, mainly how the police handled the case, but looking back at some mundane aspects and pointing the finger there is zero level thought.

Perhaps if the statistics show she is significantly safer in her home country, we can say she never should have gotten on a plane to visit Thailand.