Why is English the Universal Language of A.S.E.A.N?

[FangFerang]

Part of it is political -- they could not adopt any one country's native tongue.

Secondly, the biggest claim to fame for English is that a broader set of concepts can be expressed in English than in any other language. The downside is social, it is a language in a hurry, and lacks gender-specific descriptions for objects, like French and some other languages can express.

Many consider English the greatest gift to humankind from the UK, because it certainly wasn't Blair. Frankly, I'm a bit of an anglophile, someone who is not British and loves British humor, food, music and people.

Edited November 6, 2015 by FangFerang

[RaoulDuke]

I am pretty sure no one consulted linguists when deciding what the lingua franca should be. Your reasoning is absurd. English has one of the most opaque orthographies around, where it requires a very comprehensive knowledge of English's vast etymology to just determine how to pronounce words.

It is equally absurd to assert that one variety of English (or any other language) is superior to another variety. All dialects are equally complex and comprehensive. The reason that NAE is dominant over the Queen's tongue is that the USA is far more dominant in world affairs and technology than the UK, and they have been so for the last century.

All living languages also display productivity, where new words are added into the lexicon on a regular basis. The only reason a computer is a computer is because it originated in a country where compute was a verb, and was exported to other countries by that country under that name.

Lingua francas are a direct reflection of money and power (influence). It takes time for one language to replace another one, as you need at least a generation or two of people to get trained and familiar with the language. The fact that China is made up of several languages internally (they are not truly dialects because they are not all mutually intelligible) and the fact that China has a very complex orthography that is not understood at all in any other country (Japanese only requires about 2000 characters to be considered fluent, compared to the 100,000+ in use in Chinese languages) combine to make it very unlikely that Chinese will become a lingua franca anytime soon. If they somehow manage to avoid imploding under their own weight and greed, they could eventually achieve that in several decades, but I would not hold my breath. English's rise as a lingua france coincided with the information revolution, where English rode on the back of radio, TV, computers, and the internet. For this reason, a large number of people learn English in almost every country in the world. But all things come to an end...eventually.

[2fishin2]

^^ all that just to express your true opinion in the last 7 simple words. LOL. this is a ridiculous thread anyways.

[anon4546543]

The inquiry, why is English the preferred language of ASEAN has morphed into American English vs England English. It is very funny to read the bitter posts of "patriots". Grab a life, English is designed to adapt and expand, no one is superior.

[NativeSon360]

English is a precise language?

In the written form maybe...but spoken.....precise...really?

You want too? or you want two?

Opening the window, he threw out his chest.

Where's/wears the soap

etc etc etc

It's all in the context...the same as many languages,including Thai.

I know that I'm attempting to communicate with you, butt fyi.

Regardless of your overly stated, hilarious opinion, Teutonic based English, when pronounced correctly, is considerably more precise, than most languages in the world. That fact is confirmed by a global multitude of people (from a multitude of different cultures) who have learned English as a $econd Language.

There is only one other language that tops the English/German platform, in precise communication delivery. However, why would I venture to share such data, with a obvious know-it-all, such as yourself, eh?

Edited November 6, 2015 by NativeSon360

[NativeSon360]

The inquiry, why is English the preferred language of ASEAN has morphed into American English vs England English. It is very funny to read the bitter posts of "patriots". Grab a life, English is designed to adapt and expand, no one is superior.

The obvious losers in life (argumentative trollers), really do have a penchant for exposing themselves, on any discussion forum. The Jesus boy below, is a spectrumly shining example!

Edited November 6, 2015 by NativeSon360

[Mudcrab]

English is a precise language?

In the written form maybe...but spoken.....precise...really?

You want too? or you want two?

Opening the window, he threw out his chest.

Where's/wears the soap

etc etc etc

It's all in the context...the same as many languages,including Thai.

I know that I'm attempting to communicate with you, butt fyi.

Regardless of your overly stated, hilarious opinion, Teutonic based English, when pronounced correctly, is considerably more precise, than most languages in the world. That fact is confirmed by a global multitude of people (from a multitude of different cultures) who have learned English as a $econd Language.

There is only one other language that tops the English/German platform, in precise communication delivery. However, why would I venture to share such data, with a obvious know-it-all, such as yourself, eh?

No doubt you refer to Esperanto.

But back on topic.

You could try, if you have the capability, to communicate in written English correctly.

I hope your verbal skills are better.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Mudcrab

[NativeSon360]

English is a precise language?

In the written form maybe...but spoken.....precise...really?

You want too? or you want two?

Opening the window, he threw out his chest.

Where's/wears the soap

etc etc etc

It's all in the context...the same as many languages,including Thai.

I know that I'm attempting to communicate with you, butt fyi.

Regardless of your overly stated, hilarious opinion, Teutonic based English, when pronounced correctly, is considerably more precise, than most languages in the world. That fact is confirmed by a global multitude of people (from a multitude of different cultures) who have learned English as a $econd Language.

There is only one other language that tops the English/German platform, in precise communication delivery. However, why would I venture to share such data, with a obvious know-it-all, such as yourself, eh?

No doubt you refer to Esperanto.

But back on topic.

You could try, if you have the capability, to communicate in written English correctly.

I hope your verbal skills are better.

Best wishes, and try to have a more happier life, for the duration. Cheers!

Edited November 6, 2015 by NativeSon360

[smotherb]

My stepson has recently brought home an English text book from school for study. To my great surprise it is written in true English, not American. Americans masquerade by calling very many text books English when they are not written in English at all but American which is a bastardised version of the language much like pigeon English. If Americans want to produce language books please name them for what they are. They are not English but American. Both pronunciation and spelling are different. This is always going to be a problem for people trying to learn the language.

ASEAN have declared their official language to be English. I wonder if it really will be.

Ah, another Yank basher, croaking like the French lamenting the demise of their outmoded language. American English is not only spelled and pronounced differently, it also has different words for the same things --very similar to the varying dialects of other languages, even English English.

Consequently, the notion that American English is no more than a bastardized version of pigeon English is ludicrous. Note the American English spelling of “bastardize” with a “z” rather than the quaint English English spelling with an “s.” The American English version is a more accurate spelling, because it more closely reflects the correct pronunciation of the word. The word is not pronounced “bastardiced.”

Old English originated from Germanic-based languages; while Middle English was characterized by its injection of French. Modern English benefited from the renaissance, printing, and world trade. Late Modern English benefits from the expansion of trade and technology and has been greatly influenced by American English due to America’s dominance of business, technology, entertainment, and the internet.

Therefore, American English is the world standard. It is a living language which coins more current and future-oriented English words than the archaic English English. Quite simply, more English speakers communicate in American English than do in English English.

Great post, and point excellently made, smotherb. But, sometimes its better to ignore, and not bother to dignify that typical islander claptrap, spewd from the keyboard of an obvious dunce, with a response..

The British, themselves, don't even speak the same English, that was spoken 50-years ago. That bloke couldn't even spell the word "pigeon" correctly. Consider the source.

I'm sure you'll agree. Again, thanks for contributing, and sharing your thoughts on the topic. Cheers!

Thank you for your thoughts. Although I appreciate, and to some extent agree with, your advice; I can't escape the belief that replying to ignorance is like voting--if you don't do it, you have no right to complain.

[fred Kubasa]

I believe, in the coming Asean, Thailand will assume same responsible

position as towel boy in a brothel !

[TuskegeeBen]

Topic is spent. OP is signing off. Adios

[NativeSon360]

Would you rather have Chinese or Japanese as the language of choice?

Japanese Plus the first PM from me, was actually meant for someone else, but addressed incorrectly. Sorry about that. However, the second PM was definitely for you. Cheers.

Edited November 6, 2015 by NativeSon360

[soomak]

My adopted Thai son teaches Advanced Thai Language. 7 years ago I asked him to teach me Thai. He laughed and told me: "Don't waist your time. Learn things you might need, but as for learning how to speak it fluently? Forget it, as 90% of Thai can't speak or write it correctly."

He also believes that the Thai government/elite don't want Thai to learn English, as it might "wake them up" to what's actually going on in the world.

That's actually was my train of thought, although I'm aware it's really just based on a gut feeling.

Knowing English exposes people (through internet, books) to so much knowledge and information about the outside world. English also opens employment opportunities both locally and abroad.

The average Thai know next to nothing about what's going on in the world, and they seem content with this ignorance.

The ruling elite are happy with the way things are, and have no reason to improve English education.

[2fishin2]

Would you rather have Chinese or Japanese as the language of choice?

Japanese Plus the first PM from me, was actually meant for someone else, but addressed incorrectly. Sorry about that. However, the second PM was definitely for you. Cheers.

I lived in Japan for over 22 years, that the language of choice for me. Nihe deriibu.

[SoiBiker]

Cockneys of Birmingham...

Sorry, what?

[ozyjon]

Be lucky many didn't take up

French as their second

language.

[DogNo1]

Has anyone actually studied the history of English. Anybody know old English? Btw, Daniel Webster changed the spelling of British English words to make them conform more to their actual pronunciation. For example, theater is not pronounced tay-ah-tra. The spelling theatre is influenced by the French pronunciation of the word. We should remember that for three hundred years after the Norman invasion, the language of the court was French and the English kings actually could not speak English. Regarding the universiality of English, let's not forget that until the beginning of the 20th century, the international language was French. Prior to that, it was Latin and before that, it was Greek. Many of the Roman emperors wrote in Greek. Although there have been many conspiracies throughout history, I'm not sure that they can account for language usage. Certainly not many Thais can speak English well. How many Japanese do you suppose can speak English well? How many do you think WANT to speak English well? The answers may surprize you!

[bangon04]

Well, before we work up too much pity for the ignorant Thais, what percentage of Americans do you think can speak another language with a fair degree of fluency? For that matter, how many Americans can speak correct English? During my years of teaching at a community college in California, 87% of incoming students failed the writing entrance test and had to take remedial English before they could take English 1. It seems that language is difficult for students the world over not to mention literacy across the curriculum.

Wouldn't it make more sense for California, Florida and a few other states to become officially Spanish first language ? With Spanish as the official language then this would eliminate the stigma of having to speak correct English, since the Americans have consistently failed to achieve this over centuries.

[NativeSon360]

Cockneys of Birmingham...

Sorry, what?

Cockney_a dialect of the English (and ready-to-brawl,_chip-on-the-shoulder_mentality), among the Brits themselves, that is so indiscernible, no one outside that particular group, who can possibly understand a single English word they speak. Tragically (for the Thais) many of those same blokes, manage to get teaching jobs in many of the mall-based language schools of Thailand.

The Eastend Londoner accent, for example, comes to mind. There is a huge constituency of that (tattooed, footballer) group in the LOS, who buy a bar for their Thai-GF, then become their own best customers.

Edited November 7, 2015 by NativeSon360

[NativeSon360]

Well, before we work up too much pity for the ignorant Thais, what percentage of Americans do you think can speak another language with a fair degree of fluency? For that matter, how many Americans can speak correct English? During my years of teaching at a community college in California, 87% of incoming students failed the writing entrance test and had to take remedial English before they could take English 1. It seems that language is difficult for students the world over not to mention literacy across the curriculum.

Wouldn't it make more sense for California, Florida and a few other states to become officially Spanish first language ? With Spanish as the official language then this would eliminate the stigma of having to speak correct English, since the Americans have consistently failed to achieve this over centuries.

Unbelievable. Now I understand why the OP has thrown-in the towel, and walked away from the forum.

The topic is not about speaking Spanish, or the illiteracy rates in the US. Or posting value judgements of what the Americans

have failed to achieve (beyond saving British butts , during the 1940 Battle of Britain), blah,blah, blah. blah,blah, duh!

For heaven sake, the OP specifically targets the SE Asian region; the reason why English is the chosen universal language of ASEAN;

and how that scenario (in Thailand, NOT California or Florida) can impact with the average Thai person.

A simply path of debate. And some of your blokes actually possess university degrees? Huh? In what majors, The Arts of Basket-Weaving perhaps?

Edited November 7, 2015 by NativeSon360

[NativeSon360]

English is the universal economic language. It is also the international transport language. Singapore, the economic leader of ASEAN has English as a second language as do the Philippines and Malaysia. It is widely spoken by the elite of all other ASEAN languages. His Royal Highness in Thailand was educated in England. There are about 20 different dialects in Thailand, many which have no similarities. The same with every other ASEAN country. The choice was probably between French and English. English was chosen because of its far reaching international spread.

FYI ~ Singaporeans are now considered to be Native English Speakers, as English is the first language of Singapore. English is (officially, not actually) the second language, in all other SE Asian nations.

Edited November 7, 2015 by NativeSon360

[NativeSon360]

Has anyone actually studied the history of English. Anybody know old English? Btw, Daniel Webster changed the spelling of British English words to make them conform more to their actual pronunciation. For example, theater is not pronounced tay-ah-tra. The spelling theatre is influenced by the French pronunciation of the word. We should remember that for three hundred years after the Norman invasion, the language of the court was French and the English kings actually could not speak English. Regarding the universiality of English, let's not forget that until the beginning of the 20th century, the international language was French. Prior to that, it was Latin and before that, it was Greek. Many of the Roman emperors wrote in Greek. Although there have been many conspiracies throughout history, I'm not sure that they can account for language usage. Certainly not many Thais can speak English well. How many Japanese do you suppose can speak English well? How many do you think WANT to speak English well? The answers may surprize you!

Excellent, informative post. Thank you

[SoiBiker]

Cockneys of Birmingham...

Sorry, what?

Cockney_a dialect of the English (and ready-to-brawl,_chip-on-the-shoulder_mentality), among the Brits themselves, that is so indiscernible, no one outside that particular group, who can possibly understand a single English word they speak. Tragically (for the Thais) many of those same blokes, manage to get teaching jobs in many of the mall-based language schools of Thailand.

The Eastend Londoner accent, for example, comes to mind. There is a huge constituency of that (tattooed, footballer) group in the LOS, who buy a bar for their Thai-GF, then become their own best customers.

I wasn't asking for a definition of 'Cockney' (especially not one from someone who doesn't quite seem to know what it means). I was questioning the idea of cockneys coming from Birmingham, of all places.

[hugh2121]

My stepson has recently brought home an English text book from school for study. To my great surprise it is written in true English, not American. Americans masquerade by calling very many text books English when they are not written in English at all but American which is a bastardised version of the language much like pigeon English. If Americans want to produce language books please name them for what they are. They are not English but American. Both pronunciation and spelling are different. This is always going to be a problem for people trying to learn the language.

ASEAN have declared their official language to be English. I wonder if it really will be.

Ah, another Yank basher, croaking like the French lamenting the demise of their outmoded language. American English is not only spelled and pronounced differently, it also has different words for the same things --very similar to the varying dialects of other languages, even English English.

Consequently, the notion that American English is no more than a bastardized version of pigeon English is ludicrous. Note the American English spelling of “bastardize” with a “z” rather than the quaint English English spelling with an “s.” The American English version is a more accurate spelling, because it more closely reflects the correct pronunciation of the word. The word is not pronounced “bastardiced.”

Old English originated from Germanic-based languages; while Middle English was characterized by its injection of French. Modern English benefited from the renaissance, printing, and world trade. Late Modern English benefits from the expansion of trade and technology and has been greatly influenced by American English due to America’s dominance of business, technology, entertainment, and the internet.

Therefore, American English is the world standard. It is a living language which coins more current and future-oriented English words than the archaic English English. Quite simply, more English speakers communicate in American English than do in English English.

Great post, and point excellently made, smotherb. But, sometimes its better to ignore, and not bother to dignify that typical islander claptrap, spewd from the keyboard of an obvious dunce, with a response..

The British, themselves, don't even speak the same English, that was spoken 50-years ago. That bloke couldn't even spell the word "pigeon" correctly. Consider the source.

I'm sure you'll agree. Again, thanks for contributing, and sharing your thoughts on the topic. Cheers!

Thank you for your thoughts. Although I appreciate, and to some extent agree with, your advice; I can't escape the belief that replying to ignorance is like voting--if you don't do it, you have no right to complain.

Sounds like the point hit home.

[hugh2121]

My stepson has recently brought home an English text book from school for study. To my great surprise it is written in true English, not American. Americans masquerade by calling very many text books English when they are not written in English at all but American which is a bastardised version of the language much like pigeon English. If Americans want to produce language books please name them for what they are. They are not English but American. Both pronunciation and spelling are different. This is always going to be a problem for people trying to learn the language.

ASEAN have declared their official language to be English. I wonder if it really will be.

Born and educated in North America (USA) I have never had a problem communicating precisely with any native English speaker be they English, Irish, Scotch, Australian, or Canadian. Same goes for any Scandinavian or European, South American or Asian with the possible exception of some Indians, who learned English as a second language. Americans and English speak the same language regional dialects accents and idioms notwithstanding. BTW it's "pidgin English".

Excellent responseThanks, for contributing. However, I'm curious to know if that hugh has the same opinion "pidgin" English speaking attitude toward the heavily accented Aussies, Cockneys of Birmingham, Blackpool, Liverpool, London, the Belfast Irish, the Welsh, and or the Scottish? Looking forward to reading your answer to this (off-topic) question, there hugh. Especially since you took it there, to begin with. Cheers!

Too much scotch talking here again.

[Mudcrab]

English is a precise language?

In the written form maybe...but spoken.....precise...really?

You want too? or you want two?

Opening the window, he threw out his chest.

Where's/wears the soap

etc etc etc

It's all in the context...the same as many languages,including Thai.

I know that I'm attempting to communicate with you, butt fyi.

Regardless of your overly stated, hilarious opinion, Teutonic based English, when pronounced correctly, is considerably more precise, than most languages in the world. That fact is confirmed by a global multitude of people (from a multitude of different cultures) who have learned English as a $econd Language.

There is only one other language that tops the English/German platform, in precise communication delivery. However, why would I venture to share such data, with a obvious know-it-all, such as yourself, eh?

No doubt you refer to Esperanto.

But back on topic.

You could try, if you have the capability, to communicate in written English correctly.

I hope your verbal skills are better.

Best wishes, and try to have a more happier life, for the duration. Cheers!

Much more happier...maybe even more gooder if I'm lucky.

[masuk]

I know I'm showing my bias here. I was brought up speaking the Queen's English as my mother called it, (but I simply refer to it as 'International English") as spoken and spelled by those nations of the Southern Hemisphere, from South Africa across India, to Australia, New Zealand, Pacific Islands, Papua New Guinea.

Yes, one of the former colonies decided to change everything from the side of the road they took their horse and buggies along, to the spelling and pronunciation of the language, and also reduced so many nouns and changed tenses. This was their decision, but I do resent having it forced on the rest of us as the only way to spell or pronounce. Even the SI Metric system adopted by (almost) every country had to have its spelling changed, while still not adopting the system already passed into law by the US Senate 150 years ago.

When I was teaching in another Asian country, I'd often have to explain that 'tire' and 'tyre' had two totally different meanings, the past tense of dive was dived, not dove, a flashlight is a photographic device, a torch is for seeing your way at night.

So please don't tell us that yours is the only correct language. I feel that English and the Teutonic languages which it came from along with Norman updates is much more precise.

[NativeSon360]

English and chinese are pathways to well paying jobs an essential minimum requirement. Best thais learn this and start to invest in some knowledge instead of get rich quick dreams and lady bars. The internet is here and its cheap its not only for facebook and line. In 5 minutes i could show a thai an affordable new career path that would be better paying or at least more regular income but i fear that some dont have the attention span to see it through even if id be doing the hard work for them.

EXACTAMUNDO

[NativeSon360]

Part of it is political -- they could not adopt any one country's native tongue.

Secondly, the biggest claim to fame for English is that a broader set of concepts can be expressed in English than in any other language. The downside is social, it is a language in a hurry, and lacks gender-specific descriptions for objects, like French and some other languages can express.

Many consider English the greatest gift to humankind from the UK, because it certainly wasn't Blair. Frankly, I'm a bit of an anglophile, someone who is not British and loves British humor, food, music and people.

I tend to view English (same as the other Teutonic languages of Northern Europe) as a more technical, directly (no bull) to the point, language of expression. Thus the English language attraction, by Asian intellectuals,

who hail from the more "smoke & mirrors" communication platforms, typically integral with the Asian cultures.

I believe that is what the OP intended to convey, by labeling English as a more precise speaking form of communication. Apparently, only an esoteric number of responders actually got the OP's drift. No big surprise there.

Some of the Christian world's greatest engineering accomplishments, inventions, mathematical (problem-solving) formulas, medical & scientific discoveries, are rooted in the Anglo/Saxon ~ Teutonic language cultural bases.

Signing-off on this topic and wishing many sun shining days, to the more academic constituency of the TVF. Cheers, mates

[NativeSon360]

I know I'm showing my bias here. I was brought up speaking the Queen's English as my mother called it, (but I simply refer to it as 'International English") as spoken and spelled by those nations of the Southern Hemisphere, from South Africa across India, to Australia, New Zealand, Pacific Islands, Papua New Guinea.

Yes, one of the former colonies decided to change everything from the side of the road they took their horse and buggies along, to the spelling and pronunciation of the language, and also reduced so many nouns and changed tenses. This was their decision, but I do resent having it forced on the rest of us as the only way to spell or pronounce. Even the SI Metric system adopted by (almost) every country had to have its spelling changed, while still not adopting the system already passed into law by the US Senate 150 years ago.

When I was teaching in another Asian country, I'd often have to explain that 'tire' and 'tyre' had two totally different meanings, the past tense of dive was dived, not dove, a flashlight is a photographic device, a torch is for seeing your way at night.

So please don't tell us that yours is the only correct language. I feel that English and the Teutonic languages which it came from along with Norman updates is much more precise.

Indeed