METV Visa - Vientiane, Laos. It's official.

[MobileContent]

My prediction.

After 40 pages of mostly crap theories (myself included) I proclaim that in less than a year Thailand will offer METV in most consulates just like it used to offer a double entry visa.... to just about everyone.

Either that or they will eliminate this visa all together and introduce something "new".

Personally I believe Thailand is on the road for a major economic pain ahead.

Money talks.

Just talked to a Russian tour operator and numbers are up for Russians coming next month to Thailand due to Egypt and they have now negotiated allotments from Dec 2 2015 - Jan 5, 2016 for several 5 star hotels in Pattaya. The Chinese tourists are coming and Thai should be able to complete this year with strong numbers of which Singapore and Malaysia can only dream off. For 50,000 farangs that might not come next year to Thailand. another 5-6 million more Asians will flood Thailand so my guess for next year will be 31-32 million visitor arrivals.

When I see what the Lao people spend every weekend at Central Udon Thani it greatly outnumbers the farangs in Udon Thani and the same can be counted for BigC at Mukdahan.

The big winners are Bangkok Bank (Union Pay), Central Group etc and let me point it out once again the Chinese spend far more then what the average farang spends in this country.

Edited November 12, 2015 by MobileContent

[tribalfusion001]

More Russians and Chinese in Thailand, that's two good reasons to go somewhere else in the world. It will become a tacky tourist hub and tour groups everywhere, no thanks!

[jacksam]

I was in sihanoukville a week ago mixing with many expats that had lived there for years. Not a mention of any rumours floating about rules in cambodia.

Looking for a new home

Typical of most of your posts. Im on non o based on retirement. Or i could buy a ev or invest enough for investment visa. But that all means zip. I do not delight in difficult times for some folk not in my position. You on other hand seem to delight in it. BTW very very few will take up the metv. Designed for about noone with current requirements. In the meantime enjoy your jollies

[MobileContent]

More Russians and Chinese in Thailand, that's two good reasons to go somewhere else in the world. It will become a tacky tourist hub and tour groups everywhere, no thanks!

Tour group is where I make my money. Germans, Swiss, French, Dutch and Austrians and now Russians and Chinese.

Good Bye

[VIPinthailand]

metv is a joke . it's only valid for 6 months.

better to get 2 single. cost less and no money to show.

people debating here that a metv is perfect, don't understand that you have to leave the country every 2 months anyway. (if no extension)

[JackThompson]

When I see what the Lao people spend every weekend at Central Udon Thani it greatly outnumbers the farangs in Udon Thani and the same can be counted for BigC at Mukdahan.

...

and let me point it out once again the Chinese spend far more then what the average farang spends in this country.

I am sure a few at the top do quite well, and those are the Chinese you are describing. Do they spend more than the upper-class of the West? I would guess close to the same - and both could just get Elite visas if they desired a longer stay. But let's not compare apples and oranges - comparing a Western $600/mo pensioner with a bit of savings (which they cannot touch), to a Chinese upper-class "party-member," who got a cut of a relocated Transnational factory complex.

Do the Chinese so-called "middle-class" - the quoted "huge numbers" on cheap package tours - spend more than Western middle-class - not a chance. And those aren't 'garment-workers' - those are middle-management and such. I see them shopping at 7-11, as the other stores around close-down from lack of Western tourists. What is observed at border-cities by the Lao elite does not reflect the larger picture, where the Westerners spend far more. The BigCs near me are filled by Westerners. And many of those middle-class (not elite) Westerners stay here for extended periods (or did).

Bottom line, more Western middle-class tourists will be spending more time in other countries because of these changes / METV + no doubles and triples. They will not jump through the hoops - unless there is some change to "enforcement" of the requirements from what has been published. Will the increase in sales at 7-11 from the middle-class Chinese cover the difference? Maybe. Many Western middle-class folks came here to expreience Thai culture and eat at restaraunts - not go all "ga-ga" over 7-11 and follow a little flag-stick around, gawking at things. That road leads to "So much for Thainess" and "Welcome to Thai-Disneyland."

[tribalfusion001]

metv is a joke . it's only valid for 6 months.

better to get 2 single. cost less and no money to show.

people debating here that a metv is perfect, don't understand that you have to leave the country every 2 months anyway. (if no extension)

The wording seems to suggest no extensions, 60 days and leave.

[MobileContent]

I was in sihanoukville a week ago mixing with many expats that had lived there for years. Not a mention of any rumours floating about rules in cambodia.

Looking for a new home

Typical of most of your posts. Im on non o based on retirement. Or i could buy a ev or invest enough for investment visa. But that all means zip. I do not delight in difficult times for some folk not in my position. You on other hand seem to delight in it. BTW very very few will take up the metv. Designed for about noone with current requirements. In the meantime enjoy your jollies

In fact I enjoy it. Most people that have been staying here due to lax rules will be out in a couple of month.

No more comments from me.

I will just join again the party when the new requirements for NoneB-M will be announced

Edited November 12, 2015 by MobileContent

[theguyfromanotherforum]

I was in sihanoukville a week ago mixing with many expats that had lived there for years. Not a mention of any rumours floating about rules in cambodia.

Looking for a new home

Typical of most of your posts. Im on non o based on retirement. Or i could buy a ev or invest enough for investment visa. But that all means zip. I do not delight in difficult times for some folk not in my position. You on other hand seem to delight in it. BTW very very few will take up the metv. Designed for about noone with current requirements. In the meantime enjoy your jollies

In fact I enjoy it. Most people that have been staying here due to lax rules will be out in a couple of month.

No more comments from me.

I will just join again the party when the new requirements for NoneB-M will be announced

I think you are mistaken. Nobody is going home.

People will just get a single entry visa.

It is just an extra day inconvenience since they have to cross the border every 90 days anyway.

Nothing changed.

The extension stamp takes half a page of my passport and a whole day at chaengwatana. I actually preferred to fly out from swampy than deal with immigration. Fly to KL, fly to Wattay.... stay at IBIS for a few days have some good food. Hard life.

These days are over for me as I am getting married, but if I did not.... I would not be leaving at all.

[MobileContent]

@theguyfromanotherforum

Try this 2-3 times and people will end up in their home country for a new applications.

Their will be no back to back over 6 months and at the 4th application financial proof has to be shown or anyone gets the Visa rejected stamp in their passport which will not even allow you to enter via any airport to Thailand. All Immigration chiefs are currently in Bangkok and have meetings with the Minister of Interior today.

Its not about Farangs really but the AEC is kicking into place shortly so whatever rules are made is for the future of Thailand and those few farangs are collateral damage. From next January 2016 NoneB-M will skyrocket but they have to be obtained in the home country as well (ASEAN countries).

[bbi1]

They got rid off the 1/2/3 entries. The METV visa is for foreigners that live in their home country and that want to come over to Thailand for three to 6 months. Perfect for just 5000 - 7000 Baht. The METV visa is exactly that. Show me the money and I will give you a six month visa. If you don't have that money, no problem you can still get a SE at one of the consulates but once you have your 2-3 entries, please go home and apply a METV so that we can have a look on your finances if you are a qualified tourist. All those peoples that are wining now on this forum (seems to be just a handfull) might no that their days/months are counted.

Anyone has for sale an iMac or a Nissan 300xl Teana. Happy to pay cash for the right price.

The METV is valid for 6 months. Doesn't that basically equal to a 3 entry that was previously very limited to a select few cities around the world, in essence giving you up to 9 months in Thailand if you enter the 3rd time just before the 6 month expiry?

[chrisinth]

My point is that if the current requirements for METV exclude many. Yes a self funded retiree could visit for some time on succesive setv with extensions. There are many people that would like a base so to speak. I am doing exactly what earlier poster suggested. I travel in and out of los every few weeks. Bkk is great for flying to many countries and very cheap.

my point is .....who is the METV suited for. Not my backpacker sons spending next nine months in asia.

I can hardly come up with examples the metv caters for with its current requirements. Certainly not a chineese or russian tourist. Not the backpacker group i referred to. Not self funded people like myself. Not rich dudes working for themselves etc. So who exactly is metv for.

when a business provides a product it has a target market and alsi does market research on possible uptakes etc etc. Clearly the metv was plucked from thin air

The closer it gets to the 13th Nov. the more i see this as a white elephant, for many of the points you have mentioned above.

New visa has taken the double/triple entries off the table and, with the current requirements, has effectively reduced the target user to a very small group.

Even though it doesn't affect me, i am intrigued by the MFA's methodology in this matter.

The METV will achieve exactly what the Thai authorities wanted ie,

1. Drastically reduce illegal working

and

2. Make to life more difficult for those who believe they have a "right" to live long term in Thailand using inappropriate visas.

There will be little or no effect on the number of genuine tourist arrivals.

Yep, it is the way i read it as well, no disputing your points above.

But, with asean countries aside, who would be the target group for the METV from say, US or UK? (They are examples, i know other countries are concerned as well)

[mcfish]

" There are a few,very few that will take this visa up. "

Have you seen the lengths that some are prepared to go to stay here?

There will be thousands who will take it take up.

Correct me if wrong, but for long stayers with METV- they will have the option of-

3 out/ins per 6 months with no need for extensions.

or

2 extensions + 2 out/ins (the 2nd just before the 6 months is up)

Extend that entry

Then to Lao for a SE. Extend that and you have just over 11 months.

From there its either SE all the way- or fly home for rinse and repeat.

As it is some people fly out/in every 3 months now to avoid the hassle, so i dont think they will be to concerned.

Again ill say- It is only useless if you expect to live in Thailand continuously on the cheap on tourist visas

But its easy to ser what will happen. Every Tom Dick and cheap Charlie will be getting back to back SEs from Vientane so they dont have to fly home

Then Thai immigrations will again crack down on back to back SEs and that will spell the end for everyone

Your post makes no sense. "have you see the lengths that some are prepared to stay here"

These people don't work in there home country...

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

[Lashay]

<snip>

The big winners are Bangkok Bank (Union Pay), Central Group etc and let me point it out once again the Chinese spend far more then what the average farang spends in this country.

Presume you are basing that on figures that TAT keep quoting over last year to justify their Chinese push?

If you just scratch the surface of those figures, they are not just questionable but downright bullshit (especially if you talk to business owners)

First: It's based on a survey at the Airport, this alone makes it doubtful (surveyors can target particular groups/nationalities, for examples western young 20 something backpackers/full mooners vs well dressed upper middle class Chinese to get results their bosses want)

Second: The questions themselves are vague and open to many interpretations. For example, the principal question they ask people that they use claim that Chinese spend more, is basically "How much you spent per day?", Now even putting aside truthfulness/face saving (which would be foolish) Some will divide total holiday cost by days, some will exclude/include hotel/flights,others will only include their personal expenditure, others especially if main money earner will include their whole family in their estimate and every other member will give same answer, many other interpretations as well

Third: It's spend per day. Average Chinese spends week or less in Thailand, average westerner two to 3 weeks. So even if average western spend per day was half of the Chinese, westerners would still be contributing more to the economy per person/trip

And lastly and most importantly, the little fact that makes whole "fact" bullshit

They claim average Chinese spends 5500 baht per day per person. As you have probably noticed they are mainly family groups, so lets say 4 people per unit. That's over 20,000 per day per family. 140,000 per week....Yeah, sure, right, they are spending that

To put numbers in perspective: Chinese upper middle-class (which most of these Chinese are most definitely are not) households have income of about $16,000 to $34,000 USD per annum, so they are claiming they are spending 11% to 25% of their total annual income per week in thailand

The simple truth is Thai's really have no idea who spends most but my personal experience says Chinese might spend bit more per day, but as they spend half the time or less compared to westerners so per trip they only bring in half the revenue or less per person, this conclusion also matches figures TAT released around 2012.

But what they do know is because of way Chinese travel (tour groups) the big men can control where they spend that money (in their own shops, tours so forth) instead of the money getting spread around and those in charge like that very much.

Don't get me wrong, there is without doubt many big (even mega) spending Chinese (and Russian, Indian, Arab) tourists in the world and they make even rich westerners look like cheep charlies one step away from being homeless (just look at London, Paris, NYC and many European beach destinations) but Thailand does not see many of them. For those markets Thailand is a destination of choice for the cheap, mass market tourist, and why would the rich and successful types want to rub shoulders with those unwashed masses?

Edited November 12, 2015 by Lashay

[tribalfusion001]

<snip>

The big winners are Bangkok Bank (Union Pay), Central Group etc and let me point it out once again the Chinese spend far more then what the average farang spends in this country.

Presume you are basing that on figures that TAT keep quoting over last year to justify their Chinese push?

If you just scratch the surface of those figures, they are not just questionable but downright bullshit (especially if you talk to business owners)

First: It's based on a survey at the Airport, this alone makes it doubtful (surveyors can target particular groups/nationalities, for examples western young 20 something backpackers/full mooners vs well dressed upper middle class Chinese to get results their bosses want)

Second: The questions themselves are vague and open to many interpretations. For example, the principal question they ask people that they use claim that Chinese spend more, is basically "How much you spent per day?", Now even putting aside truthfulness/face saving (which would be foolish) Some will divide total holiday cost by days, some will exclude/include hotel/flights,others will only include their personal expenditure, others especially if main money earner will include their whole family in their estimate and every other member will give same answer, many other interpretations as well

Third: It's spend per day. Average Chinese spends week or less in Thailand, average westerner two to 3 weeks. So even if average western spend per day was half of the Chinese, westerners would still be contributing more to the economy per person/trip

And lastly and most importantly, the little fact that makes whole "fact" bullshit

They claim average Chinese spends 5500 baht per day per person. As you have probably noticed they are mainly family groups, so lets say 4 people per unit. That's over 20,000 per day per family. 140,000 per week....Yeah, sure, right, they are spending that

To put numbers in perspective: Chinese upper middle-class (which most of these Chinese are most definitely are not) households have income of about $16,000 to $34,000 USD per annum, so they are claiming they are spending 11% to 25% of their total annual income per week in thailand.

The simple truth is Thai's really have no idea who spends most but my personal experience says Chinese might spend bit more per day, but as they spend half the time or less compared to westerners so per trip they only bring in half the revenue or less per person, this conclusion also matches figures TAT released around 2012.

But what they do know is because of way Chinese travel (tour groups) the big men can control where they spend that money (in their own shops, tours so forth) instead of the money getting spread around and those in charge like that very much.

Don't get me wrong, there is without doubt many big (even mega) spending Chinese (and Russian, Indian, Arab) tourists in the world and they make even rich westerners look like cheep charlies one step away from being homeless (just look at London, Paris, NYC and many European beach destinations) but Thailand does not see many of them. For those markets Thailand is a destination of choice for the cheap, mass market tourist, and why would the rich and successful types want to rub shoulders with those unwashed masses?

Another well rounded and informative post, full of facts about the new tourists flooding in. And of course no Chinese tour group will be applying for a METV as they only stay for 1 or 2 weeks.

[MacWalen]

signing up to study Thai with McWalen.

Walen gets you 1 month extension at Bkk immi

That is not true what you wrote about Walen School, extensions in Bangkok are usually 2.5-3 months. Walen has many happy customers.

[MacWalen]

Why nobody speaks abput the ED Visa? I never applied for one. So it could be just another option.

Yes, ED visa for a long stay could be an option.

[MacWalen]

Why nobody speaks abput the ED Visa? I never applied for one. So it could be just another option.

Because

a/ it's a topic about METV

b/ It was clamped down last year.

It was not, tourist visa was cheaper than going to school, that was the main reason. ED visa still works.

[alocacoc]

Mc Walen, if I want to learn English, how long I can stay?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[MacWalen]

Clamp down because the student has to attend the class? lol

That is correct, but immigration is not overly strict about the attendance as long as it is reasonable.

[oncearugge]

Why nobody speaks abput the ED Visa? I never applied for one. So it could be just another option.

Yes, ED visa for a long stay could be an option.

Do not go overboard Macwalen !

An Ed visa obtained within the region allows an entry limited to 90 days.

Any further stay is dependent on Immigration providing extensions of stay .

Time in Thailand is limited to a max stay of one year or less depending on the number of hours "tuition" booked.

I am sure you will correct any of my misunderstandings.

[jacksam]

Why nobody speaks abput the ED Visa? I never applied for one. So it could be just another option.

Yes, ED visa for a long stay could be an option.

do you mean an excuse for a long stay. It is well know that many ed visa folk abused system. Not suggestion the school you are involved with. There were options such as tourist visas and they bragged about having an ed visa and never attending a class. Ed visas have possibly been the most openly abused visa

[MacWalen]

It's going to be hard to live in Thailand long term on a tourist visa now. A lot of people will be affected by it.

Exactly.

Maybe they will all apply for Ed visas with the help of Walen !

Walen School can help with obtaining ED visas if someone needed help.

Edited November 12, 2015 by MacWalen

[Kitsune]

erm... Walen being a sponsor, ie paying for us to be here, he's always right.

[MacWalen]

Mc Walen, if I want to learn English, how long I can stay?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

You can study one language for 18 months, after you need to change to another language and can study for another 18 months and so on.

Edited November 12, 2015 by MacWalen

[MacWalen]

Why nobody speaks abput the ED Visa? I never applied for one. So it could be just another option.

Yes, ED visa for a long stay could be an option.

Do not go overboard Macwalen !

An Ed visa obtained within the region allows an entry limited to 90 days.

Any further stay is dependent on Immigration providing extensions of stay .

Time in Thailand is limited to a max stay of one year or less depending on the number of hours "tuition" booked.

I am sure you will correct any of my misunderstandings.

It is correct, students usually don't have a problem with extending their ED visa for one year and then a trip to get a new ED visa. One year continuous stay is long enough and then you apply for a new ED. It can be done for several years.

[oncearugge]

Mc Walen, if I want to learn English, how long I can stay?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

18 months.

Without ever having to leave the county?

Do you offer "English" courses to English speakers .

If so what do you "teach " the "students " ?

[MacWalen]

Why nobody speaks abput the ED Visa? I never applied for one. So it could be just another option.

Yes, ED visa for a long stay could be an option.

do you mean an excuse for a long stay. It is well know that many ed visa folk abused system. Not suggestion the school you are involved with. There were options such as tourist visas and they bragged about having an ed visa and never attending a class. Ed visas have possibly been the most openly abused visa

Walen School is legitimate, we were never a visa mill.

Edited November 12, 2015 by MacWalen

[MacWalen]

Mc Walen, if I want to learn English, how long I can stay?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

18 months.

Without ever having to leave the county?

Do you offer "English" courses to English speakers .

If so what do you "teach " the "students " ?

12 months without leaving the country. In that case you would need to learn Thai or Russian for example.

[jacksam]

Maybe you cannot speak for other "schools" .

I was in business in farang world and in my industry i openly critized bad practice. In other words i was not an ostrich and play the card ....thats not the behaviour of my company. There is a saying...clean up or critize your own industry or eventually someone else will.