Questions from a digital nomad

[JB300]

I agree that neither of us know if illegal or not.

I don't want it to be outside the rules I'm just sick of you and your mates trying to justify every "grey area" with what comes down to spin.

Just pointing out possible options for people. After all you can't go purely by what is on consulate websites. They are notoriously wrong/incomplete/out of date the world over.

Just thought I'd point out this from the Cardif consulate:

CAN SOMEONE ELSE COLLECT MY VISA FOR ME? Yes, they can provided you are in the UK at the time of application and you have signed the application form. they will need to bring with them your passport, 1 passport photo of you and the completed application form.

UK METV requirements have been posted in another thread... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/868729-METV-Visa---Vientiane%2C-Laos%2E-It%27s-official%2E/page__view__findpost__p__10067334

Edit: Only fair to credit the guy who found it http://www.johnsjourney.com/

Edited November 12, 2015 by JB300

[totally thaied up]

The lesser spotted digital nomad will be disappearing from Thailand soon and will be relocating to a more welcoming safe haven in future or taking advantage of multiple SETV's and VOA's to truly annoy one and all 555

Many will not qualify for a VOA which costs 1000 Bht and only provides for a 15 day stay.

Repeated back to back single entry tourist visas will be restricted and currently are unavailable from many Embassy's/Consulates.

Seems the "lesser spotted digital nomad" will soon be extinct!

I did not know that much about Digital Nomads until I joined several closed Facebook Groups based in Thailand. Over the last several weeks I have followed them closely and many are 'physically' working here in Thailand. I mean not on-line but holding meetings, filming in Video Studios (lots of Youtube Promotions) or Photography shoots and I can understand why they are 'becoming' extinct. They have shot themselves in the foot and the moment I mention work permit on the above issues, they have gone running to the hills.

Maybe I can understand a little bit more why the METV has come in and reality, this was just the tip of the Iceberg I think as this was just a picking from a few thousand Digital Nomads...

[phompen]

is exist a community website with a lot of digital nomad in south east asia ? or even better thailand ?

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Many digital nomads have moved to Cambodia where the Internet is faster and the visa issues are fewer. If you are coder, you may enjoy spending time in Saigon. Seems to be the best place for coding in Asia. Good luck with Thailand.

faster internet in cambodia? perhaps if you are living under a rock in deepest darkest rural issan, however internet in bangkok puts phnom penh to shamer

Nothing further from the truth.

I have to reload this page 3 times to access server and I am in Bangkapi

I can confirm this. I am also in Bangkapi area and although internet is what it is the biggest issue for me is that it just stops and starts randomly.

[totally thaied up]

is exist a community website with a lot of digital nomad in south east asia ? or even better thailand ?

Plenty of Closed Facebook groups by Invitation only. You only have to look and having contacts within the Industry, it is pretty easy to be accepted in.

I can see why they are closed groups now .... lol

[jspill]

The main CM facebook group of 7750 people accepts anyone shortly after you click join, lol. Not like there's any real vetting or anything. It's not 'invitation only' and nether is the largest BKK one.

So you join those groups, get a ton of info, then start essentially trolling by asking about work permits - you know it's an unanswered question Thailand hasn't addressed, for years, and no one's ever been arrested. So why even bother asking? It's clear that arresting digital nomads isn't a priority at all.

A few of those guys are on Iglu type programs, so they do have work permits and are fully 'legal'.

A lot of hyperbole there to imply they're somehow secretive or 'run to the hills'. A group of thousands of people to which you can get accepted into in minutes, and invite yourself along to meet people in one of the many co working spaces they all openly work in.

Questions about work permits have been asked over and over, I've been in the group since it started. Maybe they're just bored of discussing a hypothetical (because even if it's technically illegal there's clearly zero enforcement) that's been done to death and has no real answer.

Edited November 12, 2015 by jspill

[totally thaied up]

Chiang Mai digital nomads facebook group and all the others accept anyone shortly after you join, lol. Not like there's any real vetting or anything. They might as well be open groups.

So you join those groups, get a ton of info, then start essentially trolling by asking about work permits - you know it's an unanswered question Thailand hasn't addressed, for years, and no one's ever been arrested. So why even bother asking? It's clear that arresting digital nomads isn't a priority at all.

A few of those guys are on Iglu type programs, so they do have work permits and are fully 'legal'.

Sure, I do not care one bit what these guys are up to but you can clearly see through a lot of them and they are working; not the essence, a 'true' digital nomad just solely working on-line. I have been also, many times over the years been approached by Jehovah Witnesses here in the Malls and I wonder to myself as well, do they need a work permit?

It all seems so strange to me.

With the added restrictions coming firstly with the EDU and now the METV and the Government never before taking up issues with them, "Thailand is NOW addressing them" and if people (from illegal teachers to so called Nomads that are working hands on) are now being asked for a lot more requirements, I think things are changing.

If I want to work here, I will go get a work permit. If you want to work on-line, that is fine but if you are truly doing work here, it is wrong. When you see farangs wanting to co-rent a house and advertising that it would be great for a 'video studio' or something along that point of that, you are starting to really skate on Thin Ice.

I have met several farang girls over the last 10 years that are in the ehmm, 'movie' industry so not much will surprise me .... lol ... I wonder is that classed as also being a digital nomad as it is , how can I say, "on film" .... I am not trolling here as these are just experience I have seen.

If we are all wondering why the METV visa and in round other requirements have changed, I am just thinking the question why; maybe just look at one of the many reasons (teachers, nomads and under 50 retirees) why new rules have been bought in. Is this just a valid reason why it may have happened. I really do not care if anyone works on line but things HAVE changed and I am just looking at reasons why and certainly not trolling.

Edited November 12, 2015 by totally thaied up

[jacksam]

The metv does zero to make it more difficult for the people you mentioned to stay long term in los. What has made it difficult is the removal of double and triple tv. The metv is a red herring. Will be useful to very very few. The dn will get around this. Use setv take cheap flight for little holiday and continue doing their thing. Good on em.

60 days 30 day extension. Mix in couple of stamps. Repeat. Very few embassies were doing triple. Thai immigration laws have very little forward planning

[makescents]

I follow the startup scene quite a bit and I'm always shocked when the so-called Nomads start talking about working in Thailand publicly, mainly because of the legality.

Even big firms like Zapier that have yCombinator as investors have workers in Thailand that are, possibly, not supposed to be working. The worst case scenario is prison, which we seen happen recently to 2 journalists in Indonesia.

If Thailand did turn around and allow remote workers they'd be the first country to my knowledge to do so. I see a lot of hopeful faces thinking Thai authorities will do 'the right thing'. They obviously haven't been here long enough.

[jspill]

I follow the startup scene quite a bit and I'm always shocked when the so-called Nomads start talking about working in Thailand publicly, mainly because of the legality.

Even big firms like Zapier that have yCombinator as investors have workers in Thailand that are, possibly, not supposed to be working. The worst case scenario is prison, which we seen happen recently to 2 journalists in Indonesia.

If Thailand did turn around and allow remote workers they'd be the first country to my knowledge to do so. I see a lot of hopeful faces thinking Thai authorities will do 'the right thing'. They obviously haven't been here long enough.

Google 'digital nomad summit Chiang Mai' - there've been huge public events like that, where thousands of digital nomads got together, not under the radar at all. Last one was in February. Entire websites and youtube videos about it.

To me that suggests it isn't a legal issue. Or that Thailand has no interest in pursuing them whatsoever. Which makes sense, they're not harming anyone.

[makescents]

Google 'digital nomad summit Chiang Mai' - there've been huge public events like that, where thousands of digital nomads got together, not under the radar at all. Last one was in February. Entire websites and youtube videos about it.

To me that suggests it isn't a legal issue. Or that Thailand has no interest in pursuing them whatsoever. Which makes sense, they're not harming anyone.

I never claimed that Digital Nomads are under the radar. Quite the opposite, they are not under the radar when they should be. Conferences aren't considered work in even the strictest countries, so let's write that example off.

We know it's not legal because the law says so. We know it's not enforced because otherwise people would be getting deported as we speak.

The trend however is more towards limiting tourist visa abuse rather than tackling illegal-workers directly. It's more likely that spending more than 6 months in Thailand will just not be possible in the future without overstaying, which is enforced.

[jspill]

Where does the law say anything about remote workers? It just gives a vague circular definition of 'work is working whether for pay or unpaid', which could mean anything from painting your fence to breathing. 'We know it's not legal' is a bit of a strong statement.

[JB300]

Google 'digital nomad summit Chiang Mai' - there've been huge public events like that, where thousands of digital nomads got together, not under the radar at all. Last one was in February. Entire websites and youtube videos about it.

To me that suggests it isn't a legal issue. Or that Thailand has no interest in pursuing them whatsoever. Which makes sense, they're not harming anyone.

I never claimed that Digital Nomads are under the radar. Quite the opposite, they are not under the radar when they should be. Conferences aren't considered work in even the strictest countries, so let's write that example off.

We know it's not legal because the law says so. We know it's not enforced because otherwise people would be getting deported as we speak.

The trend however is more towards limiting tourist visa abuse rather than tackling illegal-workers directly. It's more likely that spending more than 6 months in Thailand will just not be possible in the future without overstaying, which is enforced.

It was only from 13th March this year that you (technically) no longer needed a Permit to attend conferences / Trade shows etc... (Nb presenters still need authorization) But as has been said, Thailand has always turned a blind eye to it anyway.

Edit: Have googled but the only references I can find to this "List of Permissible Business Activities" are tied/limited to this announcement, does anybody know where I can get the full list?

http://www.ey.com/GL/en/Services/Tax/Human-Capital/HC-Alert--Thailand-clarifies-definition-of-work-for-foreign-visitors

Thailand clarifies definition of work for foreign visitors

Summary

Foreign visitors to Thailand no longer need to obtain urgent work permits to attend business meetings or participate in conferences, seminars or board meetings, as these activities will no longer be considered “work” by the Employment Department.

Key issues

Effective 13 March 2015, the Employment Department of Thailand has expanded the list of business activities permissible without a work permit. Individuals entering Thailand for activities listed below can now do so with a normal visitor’s visa:

Attending business meetings, conferences or seminars

Attending exhibitions or trade shows

Business visits or business negotiations

Attending non-routine or technical talks/ speeches as a participant

Attending technical training and seminars as a participant

Purchasing goods at trade shows

Joining meetings of the directors of one’s own company

The Employment Department will not process urgent work permit applications filed for these activities. However, conference speakers, sponsors or representatives at a trade show still require work authorization.

Following the original announcement, officials have confirmed that no work permit will be required for permissible activities only if the period engaged in the exempted activities does not exceed 15 days.

This development is in line with the promotion of Thailand as a center of trade and investment and to encourage foreign companies to set up Regional Operating Headquarters in the country.

Action required

The changes reverse long-standing rules regarding business visits to Thailand, which required work authorization even for activities generally assumed to be permissible under business visitor status, such as business meetings.

The expanded list of business activities means many trips to Thailand will be less administratively burdensome for both the foreign national and the employer.

Nonetheless, employers should review the nature of activities undertaken by their foreign employees in Thailand to determine whether it falls under any of the seven prescribed activities or not.

Edited November 17, 2015 by JB300

[rwdrwdrwd]

Please let's not derail another topic with an opinion based side discussion about whether it is legal or not - the OP didn't ask that.

[JackThompson]

... If Thailand did turn around and allow remote workers they'd be the first country to my knowledge to do so. I see a lot of hopeful faces thinking Thai authorities will do 'the right thing'. They obviously haven't been here long enough.

The Philippines has exactly that type of visa - a Business visa requiring much-reduced initial capital investment, provided the work performed is for foreign clients. In Cambodia, you just get a business-visa (no questions asked) for $300/yr, plus a work-permit for another $100/yr - the latter enforced only when renewing for a 2nd year (though, purportedly, you must back-pay for the 1st year).

Those are just the "easy" ones. In many other countries in the world, you can get a B-visa and work at your own company if you put up significant capital-investment - without hiring any locals.

[JB300]

A reports in of non-residents getting an METV from Vientiane with only proof of 200k THB in a Thai Bank... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/870548-The-Multiple-Entry-Tourist-Visa-Topic-%28METV%29/page__view__findpost__p__10091314

Please don't complain about the 200k in the bank, it's great news that people seem to be getting them without the residency/employment requirements.

[makescents]

Where does the law say anything about remote workers? It just gives a vague circular definition of 'work is working whether for pay or unpaid', which could mean anything from painting your fence to breathing. 'We know it's not legal' is a bit of a strong statement.

It's probably the most crystal clear definition of a law I've ever seen. I'm not even a lawyer and I have no problem interpreting that as there's no room for interpretation. Everything is considered work according to the Thai authorities deem otherwise.

Only recently have they clarified that activities that would be considered exempt under a B1/B2 US visa are also exempt under a Thai tourist visa, as someone linked to above.

My big beef isn't that guys are doing it, it's that they are promoting it like it's fine, it's not-enforced and people even saying it's legal citing some immigration officer in Chiang Mai who doesn't have the authority to even state such a thing.

To clarify whether or not it's legal. Next time you apply for a visa at one of Thailand's consulates, write in the box under purpose of visit "I will be working for clients outside of Thailand" and see if your visa is issued. If it is, I'll upload a video of me eating my hat on Youtube.

I haven't even got into the tax complications. Even if they made it legal which I very much doubt, you'd be liable for income taxes which are almost as punitive as the home countries of most nomads.

Please let's not derail another topic with an opinion based side discussion about whether it is legal or not - the OP didn't ask that.

It's relevant. If it's not legal then all other points are moot since I believe this forum doesn't permit the discussion.

... If Thailand did turn around and allow remote workers they'd be the first country to my knowledge to do so. I see a lot of hopeful faces thinking Thai authorities will do 'the right thing'. They obviously haven't been here long enough.

The Philippines has exactly that type of visa - a Business visa requiring much-reduced initial capital investment, provided the work performed is for foreign clients. In Cambodia, you just get a business-visa (no questions asked) for $300/yr, plus a work-permit for another $100/yr - the latter enforced only when renewing for a 2nd year (though, purportedly, you must back-pay for the 1st year).

Those are just the "easy" ones. In many other countries in the world, you can get a B-visa and work at your own company if you put up significant capital-investment - without hiring any locals.

You can get work permits and business visas for most countries. In Thailand business visas are not easy to obtain. If you start down that road you might as well incorporate and do things by the book.

[JackThompson]

... If Thailand did turn around and allow remote workers they'd be the first country to my knowledge to do so. I see a lot of hopeful faces thinking Thai authorities will do 'the right thing'. They obviously haven't been here long enough.

... In many other countries in the world, you can get a B-visa and work at your own company if you put up significant capital-investment - without hiring any locals.

You can get work permits and business visas for most countries. In Thailand business visas are not easy to obtain. If you start down that road you might as well incorporate and do things by the book.

I must agree with that. Whether it is good, bad, or neutral for Thailand and Thai people - VS - whether or not it fits an existing legal-framework, are two completely separate questions. As well, noting it is not currently enforced is not the same as saying it is legal. Laws on the books can "begin to be enforced" at any time, so the Chang Mai braggers are asking for trouble.

And, yes, might as well start your own company - beats paying out $600/mo minimum to Iglu - 30% of a minimum $2K/mo. Note this rather expensive option would not exist, if there were another clear legal option. I would guess that $2K/mo minimum is based on qualifying for the B-Visa in that profession - otherwise someone would have set up a company with a better deal by now. If there is a better plan, I know a few expats living in Cambodia who would like to know about it.

[rwdrwdrwd]

Where does the law say anything about remote workers? It just gives a vague circular definition of 'work is working whether for pay or unpaid', which could mean anything from painting your fence to breathing. 'We know it's not legal' is a bit of a strong statement.

It's probably the most crystal clear definition of a law I've ever seen. I'm not even a lawyer and I have no problem interpreting that as there's no room for interpretation. Everything is considered work according to the Thai authorities deem otherwise.

Only recently have they clarified that activities that would be considered exempt under a B1/B2 US visa are also exempt under a Thai tourist visa, as someone linked to above.

My big beef isn't that guys are doing it, it's that they are promoting it like it's fine, it's not-enforced and people even saying it's legal citing some immigration officer in Chiang Mai who doesn't have the authority to even state such a thing.

To clarify whether or not it's legal. Next time you apply for a visa at one of Thailand's consulates, write in the box under purpose of visit "I will be working for clients outside of Thailand" and see if your visa is issued. If it is, I'll upload a video of me eating my hat on Youtube.

I haven't even got into the tax complications. Even if they made it legal which I very much doubt, you'd be liable for income taxes which are almost as punitive as the home countries of most nomads.

Please let's not derail another topic with an opinion based side discussion about whether it is legal or not - the OP didn't ask that.

It's relevant. If it's not legal then all other points are moot since I believe this forum doesn't permit the discussion.

OK, so if we MUST pretend it's relevant to the questions the OP asked...

Your whole premise depends upon the assumption that a definition is open to arbitrary interpretation. That is not what a definition is.

"work" means engaging in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits

http://wp.doe.go.th/wp/images/law/4/aliens_act.pdf

The definition simply says that 'work' is 'work', and it's still 'work' regardless of money/benefits. It is self referential and does not meet the basic standards of a definition since it doesn't define what 'work' is. Given this, it is the antithesis of 'crystal clear'.

Whilst it may be your interpretation, the law does not say that "anything is work unless we say it isn't". If it did say that, then we indeed end up in a position where breathing (or if we wish to be more realistic, sending an email, reading a book, or doing some exercise) must be work, since it is not expressly excluded by any legislation and meets the criteria of 'exerting energy'.

I agree that activities that have been expressly mentioned as not included by the relevant authorities can be considered excluded, but it does not logically follow that any other activity whatsoever therefore must be included. Only 'work' is included but we do not know, logically, what 'work' means for the purpose of legislation - we can only hypothesise as to how a judge would interpret any given activity.

Neither is it true that if they 'made it legal' then digital nomads would 'become liable to income tax' - Clarification of legality has have no impact upon tax liability - it is already the case that people with foreign income are liable to Thai income tax, as with people who are employed in country. For any Thai tax resident, Thai or foreign, foreign income is subject to Thai income tax if remitted to Thailand in the year earned, and zero rated if remitted to the country in a subsequent tax year.

Edited November 19, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[FritzB]

And, yes, might as well start your own company - beats paying out $600/mo minimum to Iglu - 30% of a minimum $2K/mo. Note this rather expensive option would not exist, if there were another clear legal option. I would guess that $2K/mo minimum is based on qualifying for the B-Visa in that profession - otherwise someone would have set up a company with a better deal by now. If there is a better plan, I know a few expats living in Cambodia who would like to know about it.

How would you go about starting your own company when there isn't a single Thai who can do what you do? You'll have to bring in someone else to own 51 % of your business and employ at least four Thais to do nothing while investing 2 million baht. If there was an easy way to become self-employed in Thailand without needing to employ anyone or share your business with anyone, things would be a lot easier.

Edited November 19, 2015 by FritzB

[JackThompson]

And, yes, might as well start your own company - beats paying out $600/mo minimum to Iglu - 30% of a minimum $2K/mo. Note this rather expensive option would not exist, if there were another clear legal option. I would guess that $2K/mo minimum is based on qualifying for the B-Visa in that profession - otherwise someone would have set up a company with a better deal by now. If there is a better plan, I know a few expats living in Cambodia who would like to know about it.

How would you go about starting your own company when there isn't a single Thai who can do what you do? You'll have to bring in someone else to own 51 % of your business and employ at least four Thais to do nothing while investing 2 million baht. If there was an easy way to become self-employed in Thailand without needing to employ anyone or share your business with anyone, things would be a lot easier.

For the work-permit, if doing a joint-venture with a wife, only hire 2 Thais (this rule varies by where in Thailand). If they did nothing, you would be close to the Iglu monthly-costs with two employees. All options require the startup investment / shares, but I have heard varying reports of what percentage must be cash in the bank. Now add in legal costs.

My point was, no easy option here that I know of - pending new information.

[FritzB]

For the work-permit, if doing a joint-venture with a wife, only hire 2 Thais (this rule varies by where in Thailand). If they did nothing, you would be close to the Iglu monthly-costs with two employees. All options require the startup investment / shares, but I have heard varying reports of what percentage must be cash in the bank. Now add in legal costs.

My point was, no easy option here that I know of - pending new information.

Indeed, there are no easy options. And if you have no wife and wish to have no wife, there aren't any options. Thailand could cash in nicely if they made it easy to self-employ yourself here without having to involve anyone else - pay your taxes, get a business visa & enjoy. If they wanted to, they could even stipulate that all of your income must come from outside of Thailand so as not to compete with any domestic business. The numbers of geographically independent, self-employed professionals will only increase in the future, and Thailand could attract hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of them if they played their cards right, and make a nice slice of money from their taxes & spending. They could either have you pay standard taxes just like everyone else or charge a suitable amount of money for your business visa.

It's very difficult to see how such a scheme would not benefit them massively.

Edited November 19, 2015 by FritzB

[JB300]

For the work-permit, if doing a joint-venture with a wife, only hire 2 Thais (this rule varies by where in Thailand). If they did nothing, you would be close to the Iglu monthly-costs with two employees. All options require the startup investment / shares, but I have heard varying reports of what percentage must be cash in the bank. Now add in legal costs.

My point was, no easy option here that I know of - pending new information.

Indeed, there are no easy options. And if you have no wife and wish to have no wife, there aren't any options. Thailand could cash in nicely if they made it easy to self-employ yourself here without having to involve anyone else - pay your taxes, get a business visa & enjoy. If they wanted to, they could even stipulate that all of your income must come from outside of Thailand so as not to compete with any domestic business. The numbers of geographically independent, self-employed professionals will only increase in the future, and Thailand could attract hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of them if they played their cards right, and make a nice slice of money from their taxes & spending. They could either have you pay standard taxes just like everyone else or charge a suitable amount of money for your business visa.

It's very difficult to see how such a scheme would not benefit them massively.

But why would you move to Thailand & pay 35% in tax when you could move to Philippines/Cambodia & pay 0%, you'd probably pay less tax in UK/US.

I know we're well OT now, but worth pointing out that the influx of disproportional wealth does impact the locals as it pushes up the price of everything (especially housing), ask anybody who grew up in a normal working class family in London, Lake District or even Singapore.

[FritzB]

But why would you move to Thailand & pay 35% in tax when you could move to Philippines/Cambodia & pay 0%, you'd probably pay less tax in UK/US.

I know we're well OT now, but worth pointing out that the influx of disproportional wealth does impact the locals as it pushes up the price of everything (especially housing), ask anybody who grew up in a normal working class family in London, Lake District or even Singapore.

Good points. Suppose they could make the rates more competitive. I do think you could get quite a few people to pay 100k / year for a hassle-free business visa for Thailand if there were no other obligations. (I know about the Elite visa, but 500k for 5 years is very different from 100k for one year.) Thailand does have several advantages over the rest of SE Asia, not least better infrastructure.

As for disproportionate wealth, well... Isn't that the case already? I don't think that most digital nomads are particularly wealthy either, and those who are can get an Elite visa or an investment visa.

[joebloggs1234]

To me that suggests it isn't a legal issue. Or that Thailand has no interest in pursuing them whatsoever. Which makes sense, they're not harming anyone.

Except other foreigners.

It's fairly obvious the visa changes are aimed at tackling illegal workers, and you could go as far as to say the various crackdowns in Chiang Mai atm are because these idiots flaunt working illegally and tell everyone to come and join in the fun on their digital nomad blog sites. Chiang Mai is overrun with these types, there'll be more foreigners than Thai before long, everyday I see posts on websites where someone is packing up to come to Chiang Mai and start working online, even the FB groups are full of them blatantly saying 'Hey, just got my tourist visa, I'm coming to Chiang mai to work as a digital nomad, where is the best place to stay on Nimman with good wifi?'.

Of course Thai authorities are not going to waste time staking out coffee shops to snare some guy on his laptop. It's not because they allow it, it's because it's pointless. They've just changed the visas instead.

[FritzB]

Except other foreigners.

...how exactly do they harm other foreigners? If you mean they should shut up and be quiet, I agree. But simply being here & working quietly at home or at a café & spending money here... I don't see the problem.

[joebloggs1234]

Except other foreigners.

...how exactly do they harm other foreigners? If you mean they should shut up and be quiet, I agree. But simply being here & working quietly at home or at a café & spending money here... I don't see the problem.

It's too late now, but yes, by not shutting up and being quiet. They shone a spotlight on everyone IMO.

I imagine people have worked like that in Thailand for many years on the down low, no issues. Suddenly there's this huge 'look at me!' digital nomad trend and everyone is flaunting it, the hammer comes down.

[hansomman]

Except other foreigners.

...how exactly do they harm other foreigners? If you mean they should shut up and be quiet, I agree. But simply being here & working quietly at home or at a café & spending money here... I don't see the problem.

It's too late now, but yes, by not shutting up and being quiet. They shone a spotlight on everyone IMO.

I imagine people have worked like that in Thailand for many years on the down low, no issues. Suddenly there's this huge 'look at me!' digital nomad trend and everyone is flaunting it, the hammer comes down.

I agree, all this "look at me I'm a cool hip digital nomad" bullshit is shining a bright light which the Thais ( and other countries ) will eventually recognize. Soon people will say "hey, these dudes are making cash and we aren't getting a cut... <deleted>". Then new laws and enforcement will come about. Both in the third world country the DM is residing in and the home country which they are from. If everyone just kept their mouth shut, worked in secret from their apartment or w/e and went about life I doubt anything would have ever come of it.

[MobileContent]

The most stupid companies that do it in Chiang Mai are some folks from Sweden, Norway and Denmark.

The companies advertise it on Adwords openly and they work from home full-time on a tour visa and those guys in the office charge the European companies 1200-1500 Euros per worker and the Digital Nomad gets around 700-900 Euros often cash on the hand.

I am aware of those companies, including the name, addresses and phone numbers but I would never come on the idea to report them.

As for the little Digital Nomad from Starbucks that make a few bugs from Adsense or Admob, I think they are ok as long they don't go out in the open.

[FritzB]

The most stupid companies that do it in Chiang Mai are some folks from Sweden, Norway and Denmark.

The companies advertise it on Adwords openly and they work from home full-time on a tour visa and those guys in the office charge the European companies 1200-1500 Euros per worker and the Digital Nomad gets around 700-900 Euros often cash on the hand.

I am aware of those companies, including the name, addresses and phone numbers but I would never come on the idea to report them.

As for the little Digital Nomad from Starbucks that make a few bugs from Adsense or Admob, I think they are ok as long they don't go out in the open.

I think there's a very noisy minority causing trouble for everyone. There's plenty of self-employed geographically independent professionals providing all sorts of services from database management to accounting to translation to academic consultancy who are incorporated in their home countries or elsewhere, paying taxes etc. where they are due. They're established professionals with no need to make waves, their work simply makes them geographically independent. I'm sure more than a few would be happy to pay for the privilege of staying in Thailand if it was made reasonably easy. Perhaps it will be, one day.

Edited November 19, 2015 by FritzB