Water Testing and Filters Advice

[carlyai]

Thanks to a TV member, had my bore water tested and have the results.

UNFILTERED WATER TEST

VALUE TOTAL DISOLVED SOLIDS UNIT

TDS 40 PPM

TOTAL ALKILINITY 5 PPM

TOTAL HARDNESS 13 PPM

CALCIUM HARDNESS Below 20 PPM

pH Below 6

PHOSPATES .36 PPM

CHLORIDES 12 PPM

NITRATES .7 PMM

COPPER .08 PPM

IRON 1.01 PPM

MANGANESE .17 PPM

To me, looks like the ph is a little low, chloride is a little high and the iron content is about 30% high.

I don't know much about filter systems, but will learn.

So (doing some research), 1. I can get a water softner filter with brime solution to reduce the iron.

2. I need to neutralise the acid first.

But, the water softner will put exta salt in the water which will probably be a heath hazard for an old person like me.

I really want to be able to drink the water after I filter it, and also use the water in a planned irrigation system for my lawn plants etc.

Any advice?

Edited November 13, 2015 by carlyai

[chiang mai]

It would seem strange to go to the trouble of filtering your water supply and use that water on your garden and plants. We use water directly from the klong for that purpose and it works fine, the "dirtier" the better.

The aspect of personal consumption after filtering raises the issue of storage and bacterial contamination, you can filter as much as you want and get the balance text book perfect but unless you treat for bacteria you still shouldn't drink it, perhaps consider UV treatment just before the tap. BTW our (delivered) drinking water reads 5 on the PH scale, as does Nestles bottled water..

[carlyai]

It would seem strange to go to the trouble of filtering your water supply and use that water on your garden and plants. We use water directly from the klong for that purpose and it works fine, the "dirtier" the better.

The aspect of personal consumption after filtering raises the issue of storage and bacterial contamination, you can filter as much as you want and get the balance text book perfect but unless you treat for bacteria you still shouldn't drink it, perhaps consider UV treatment just before the tap. BTW our (delivered) drinking water reads 5 on the PH scale, as does Nestles bottled water..

Over time, we have this rust stain as in the above picture.

The water also seems to cause a problem with the outside tiles grout, and I think it's because of the iron content, but not sure.

That's why I want to filter the water for the irrigation system, to stop overspray staining the house and tiles over time.

The UV treatment (is that the reverse osmosis system with the UV filter?), just before the tap could be an answer as well. Thanks.

[chiang mai]

Ah, rust, that's something else entirely. We use water from the klong for everyday use in the gardens but when the klong runs dry we use our well. At 16 metres we get rust in spades and yes, it does stain everything it touches. For us there's no solution to this problem except to use a hose pipe for watering rather than sprinklers and to try and avoid the (white) painted garden walls.

So if you have rust in your water, is that from the government domestic supply or from a well? I guess it doesn't really matter which one it's from since a water filter will of course remove it although you may need a special filter, something like a Mazuma that is filled with the appropriate agent.

The UV filter is light activated, commonly found on smaller units at the sink tap. It might be a two stage process for you, step one at the outside storage tank to eliminate rust and step two in the house to kill bacteria. Perhaps others can add to this.

[Pacificperson]

You might want to go with an under the sink RO system. They are relatively inexpensive and not hard to maintain. You get a separate tap for your drinking water and everything else is untreated.

I would also suggest bacteria testing for your water. If needed, you can add a UV system to the RO unit.

If you want to treat all of your water, then a whole house softener would be the way to go. Some people use both systems - a whole house softener and a drinking water RO unit.

[RichCor]

I agree, a simple under-sink RO system for drinking water.

Also, you can use a large 'cartridge' filter to capture/filter a lot of particles, place in on the water line before it enters the house. Then either backwash it or replace it as it eventually gets gunked up.

I also like the large whole-house 'resin' filter systems.

[carlyai]

You might want to go with an under the sink RO system. They are relatively inexpensive and not hard to maintain. You get a separate tap for your drinking water and everything else is untreated.

I would also suggest bacteria testing for your water. If needed, you can add a UV system to the RO unit.

If you want to treat all of your water, then a whole house softener would be the way to go. Some people use both systems - a whole house softener and a drinking water RO unit.

Right, but I've done some prelim. reading and using a whole house filter or 'softner' gets our a lot of minerals, which I want to drink, (that's the safety ones), so Ro for the sink, great, but I don't particularly want a 'softner' if I can use just one filter to get the iron within limits.

[carlyai]

I agree, a simple under-sink RO system for drinking water.

Also, you can use a large 'cartridge' filter to capture/filter a lot of particles, place in on the water line before it enters the house. Then either backwash it or replace it as it eventually gets gunked up.

I also like the large whole-house 'resin' filter systems.

Thanks Rich.

After I test the water again, if I just have a ph and an iron problem, can't I get a filter just for the iron and not filter for everything?

Another answere to this thread said that to get rid of the iron just let it cascade over something, which (I don't really know as have not read enough, yet) I thought could be granulated carbon. But not sure.

[RichCor]

One website I found did a pretty good job of listing all the water filtration / treatment types and what each does.

Different Water Filtration Methods Explained

remember to view all three pages on the website link.

Basic particle removal via depth, screen, or surface -type filtration.

Depth filters are matted fibers or materials compressed to form a matrix that retains particles by random adsorption or entrapment.

Screen filters are inherently uniform structures which, like a sieve, retain all particles larger than the precisely controlled pore size on their surface.

Surface filters are made from multiple layers of media. When fluid passes through the filter, particles larger than the spaces within the filter matrix are retained, accumulating primarily on the surface of the filter.

The distinction between filters is important because the three serve very different functions. Depth filters are usually used as prefilters because they are an economical way to remove 98% of suspended solids and protect elements downstream from fouling or clogging. Ultrafilters are available in several selective ranges. In all cases, the membranes will retain most, but not necessarily all, molecules above their rated size

Carbon Absorption for smell, taste and gases. Can also be effective against microorganisms

Reverse Osmosis a micron membrane filter

Ultraviolet (UV) Radiation for bacteriological

Ion Exchange via Resin for water softening or de-ionization (exchange either hydrogen ions for cations (e.g., Na+, Ca++, Al+++), or hydroxyl ions for anions (e.g., Cl-).

Given that you want to remove the IRON, I might suggest looking at getting the largest sediment filter system (depth filter) made of yarn/fiber than normally come as a translucent clear-plastic cartridge so you can periodically monitor it. Install it as a whole-house filter. Backwash or replace the cartridge as needed. If testing still find metals present after the filter then look into micro/ultra filters and ion-exchange system.

Then, specifically for drinking and cooking, add a more specialized micro, carbon, possibly RO under-sink filtration system

Anything you do really should be based on testing, then install a system to meet your needs (not guess and hope it does).

Then follow that up with periodic/annual testing to verify the system still does what it needs to do.

[chiang mai]

This thread has got me thinking, I wonder if I can use a paper filter based system inline between my well and the pump or between the pump and the sprinklers, to remove rust from my well water. Anyone?

[RichCor]

This thread has got me thinking, I wonder if I can use a paper filter based system inline between my well and the pump or between the pump and the sprinklers, to remove rust from my well water. Anyone?

Don't know if they have them available here, but if you're dealing with Iron or Iron/Sulphur, then many people swear by a “oxidation” filter that consists of using a chemical-injection pump to mix Hydrogen Peroxide in a solution tank with in-line static mixer, and a use a backwashing filter containing carbon and fiber to remove the remaining oxidized iron particulates from the water.

Have never done it myself.

[bankruatsteve]

Rust is one of the toughest things to filter. Check out "systems" to deal with it but RO might be the only (expensive) solution.

[carlyai]

Another member had an iron problem and we were talking about it a while ago. He was getting stains on the house paint, but he has this great irrigation set up and would find it difficult to change.

We were talking about iron content being heavy and possibly having two tanks. The first one from the bore, where the iron would settle to the bottom and then pump to the next tank for use.

Dont know if this would work or be more expensive than an iron filter.

On the same topic as water filters, they have a mob in lao that sell ceramic water purifiers for poor people to use to filter their contaminated drinking water. W www.laowater.com .

Its hard to get a filter to try from them, but i will try again this coming sonkran and let u know the results.

Some research on their site would suggest hard water is more benificial to drink than soft water as it still has all the minerals

[RichCor]

Iron can be particulate (than can 'settle') and in solution (than becomes apparent on things that 'dry').

Regarding filters, too fine an initial filter and it will get constantly plugged. Then you have to deploy 'graduated filters' in stages.

[carlyai]

I think i need something like this.

Three filter system.

Not sure how to make the hyperlink on my smartphone.

H https://yotu.be/uzW8K8Z0oHo

Try this one.

Edited November 16, 2015 by carlyai

[carlyai]

The link doesnt seem to work from this app but works in utube.sorry.

[RichCor]

Your YouTube link: Pentek RFFE-20BB Iron Reducing Water Filter

The guy does an OK job explaining the issue.

As stated, if you have ferrous iron (unbound, in solution) it will pass through any 'capture filter' you put in place, only to later to show up as it's exposed to oxygen later on.

In order to filter iron successfully, oxidation of the ferrous iron in ferric iron which precipitates then in iron hydroxide, Fe(OH)3, must first occur thus allowing a natural removal of dissolved iron. The iron needs to *somehow* be bound with oxygen so the resultant compound is susceptible to physical filtration.

** Elements of this post were plagiarized from here: Iron Removal by physical-chemical ways

[chiang mai]

I just noticed a house nearby for the first time that has an iron filter set up on top of a well, it's a monster of thing with five trays on top that allow the water to cascade down and then into a large holding tank underneath - presumably two pumps, one to pull water frm the well and then a second to disburse from the holding tank - the trays are filled with gravel and sand. It's probably cheap as chips to make and set up but unless you've got somewhere to hide it, or unless you can bury the tank, it's not the sort of ornamental feature the average person might want in their garden!

[carlyai]

I think that's the correct solutuon but i don't have the space.

I did see a completely chemical free water treatment/waste water treatment/pool filrtation system in Bali designed by a biologist, but when you throw sun and alge into the equation the system had problems.

Rich always comes up with good info.

As my iron problem seems to be below 3 ppm (have to retest when my kit arrives from the States) i think im going to go for a 3 filter 'Big Blue' filter solution.

Between the jet pump and 3000 l tank install first a sediment filter to filter out the ferric oxide or rust particles (where the ferric iron has already oxidised), then a iron oxidising filter of pertasium manganate impregnated with zealite material, to oxidise the ferric iron into ferris oxide, then a carbon capture filter to capture the ferris oxide.

Excuse the typing and spellin mistakes.

Now i need to work out what filters to buy here in Thailand to do the job and fit in the Big Blue containers.

Any one an idea of type and availibility?

[chiang mai]

Home Pro stores and/or Global House stores, both popular and lots of them around, both will have what you need.

Curious, how deep is your well, I assume you're on a well since you're using a jet pump? I've considered taking my well deeper to get past the rust problem hence why I ask about depth.

[carlyai]

Home Pro stores and/or Global House stores, both popular and lots of them around, both will have what you need.

Curious, how deep is your well, I assume you're on a well since you're using a jet pump? I've considered taking my well deeper to get past the rust problem hence why I ask about depth.

Our wells are about 18 m deep.

We have water at about 8 m but have the jet pump head and foot valve at about 15 m.

I should have paid closer attention when they were being drilled, but didn't know anything then, but the strata was sandy with small pebbles.

Again I don't know that much, but if you don't know what aquifier you're on, going deeper may not be an answer as you may be still in the same aquifier.

Before from doing some projects on water in Aus, two bores side by side and one had water 1 or more metres deeper than the other. These were bores cms apart. So if you had a 6" bore, the cement casing, then another 6" bore with cement casing, side by side, that's how these bores were and they seemed to be on different aquifiers. They may have been on the same aquifier, but at a different strata level.

So, saying that, if you go deeper, you may still have rust.

I looked at the filtration system of the local 'Wat' in the hills, and it has one of the most elaborate filter systems I have seen. Seems to have everything, from large 4 stage backwashable filters, to RO, to ...... everything seen mentioned in ThaiVisa threads.

Hope I don't have to go to those lengths to get reasonable water.

[chiang mai]

FWIW my well goes to 15 metres and the foot valve is at 14 metres, on a conventional pump - I just checked my water levels and I've got water at 7 metres. I'm told that in these parts I need to go past 60 metres to avoid the rust problem but that gets expensive.

[carlyai]

FWIW my well goes to 15 metres and the foot valve is at 14 metres, on a conventional pump - I just checked my water levels and I've got water at 7 metres. I'm told that in these parts I need to go past 60 metres to avoid the rust problem but that gets expensive.

What ppm is the iron content?

Maybe if it's below 3 ppm you only need like what I am thinking about.

I just saw another thread and have pm ed the guy with a similar type of set up.

There is also another very nice guy living at Pisanalook, with a rust problem and extensive irrigation and filtering systems, maybe I can ask him for his advice if you're abouve 3 ppm.

[carlyai]

Now for my hardest question:

Where can I buy Pentek, or equivalent water filters ( 20 X 4.5 ")?

P520BB - WF Sediment filter

RFFE - 20BB Iron reducing filter

RFC - 20BB Carbon filters

I've searched, but can't seem to get them or an equivalent in Thailand or from Ali or Lazarda.

I give up.

[RichCor]

Many districts have a local specialist shop that sell whole-house filtration systems. As long as you know what needs to be done...

Pre- sediment filter

Oxidise

Post- Carbon filter

...there are various methods of inducing the oxygen, the pre/post filters are fairly generic. Just put together a system geared to treat your expected water usage.

[carlyai]

Many districts have a local specialist shop that sell whole-house filtration systems. As long as you know what needs to be done...

Pre- sediment filter

Oxidise

Post- Carbon filter

...there are various methods of inducing the oxygen, the pre/post filters are fairly generic. Just put together a system geared to treat your expected water usage.

I looked at oneshopthai, and other places on Thai websites, mazuma, but it's the same old story.

It's just sooooo hard to fathom this Aisian wandabe hub out after 28 years here.

Now when you want to import, the web site puts on import duty as well.

I've been down to the port several times to get imports, once a load of teak furniture from Indonesia, 'teak is very expensive and we don't have much in Thaland, so we'll hit you with every under the table charge there is', I was ready to knock that son of a mother outa the LamShabang port, and I could have then, but what we really need is a nice bearded gentleman from across the seas to do something substantial to reduce these office goats, the ones who get their kick backs and at lunch time impress the local girls with their bottle of 'Jonny Dern Dy' with big gold chains around their necks, to dust.

Not that I'm advocating violence. Perish the thought.

[carlyai]

Thank you for your replies.

I was going to go with a filter system supplied by a person in Pattaya when I returned to Thailand in a few months.

Last week I had to visit family in hospital with dengy (seems everywhere out here) in Kong Kean and saw this little Thai filter shop near the hotel we stayed at.

The shop is run by a young couple and I looked at his shop display installations, welding etc. and he seems to have done a pretty neat job and him and his wife seem nice people.

Anyway, he drove from Kong Kean to Kuchinari to have a look at my water, tested it (again), and recommended a system that I researched before and think will work.

Today he returns and we are going to install the system between the tank and the input to the house.

Also a RO system under the sink for the drinking water.

[carlyai]

I installed a water filtration system from the outside tank to the house.

I also installed a RO system for drinking water under the sink in the kitchen.

My main problem (I thought) was the iron content in the water, so my thinking was that as the iron was in the water, if I exposed it to oxygen, by pumping from the bore pump to the holding tank, then it would oxidise and then I could use good filters to remove the oxidised particles.

So I installed anthrocite and carbon contaniner filters to treat the water to the house and a RO unit to further purify the water for drinking.

I then used a Watersafe well testing kit to check the water.

Pics of the installation and water testing are included.

Water Test Results

Main Water to House

Copper 0 ppm

Iron <0.1 ppm

Nitrate 2.0 ppm

Nitrite 0 ppm

PH 6.5

LR Total Hardness 0 ppm

Total Cholrine 0 ppm

Drinking Water

Lead negative

Pesticides

atrazine negative

simazine negative

I had planned to install the system in a couple of months, but found this shop on a vist to Kong Kean who quoted me 2000 Baht for the installation, so got them to do it.

They did a good job, and (after instruction) mixed all their pipe glue and brick mortar on an old sheet outside.

They also used (after instruction) the vacume cleaner to suck up the dust as they drilled for the fittings inside and outside the house.

Instead of twisting the wires together for the power cable extension, I gave them heat shrink, a sodering iron and crimping tool, plus earth cable.

They had a bit of a laugh, as they did with the vacum cleaner and the sheet, but they knew how to do the work.

If interested the company is from Kong Kean and called MA Water Service and the young guy owner is named Monkhon.

Tele: 089 944 8537.

If I did it again I would have checked the prices of the RO unit on Lazada first, as the RO unit has really dropped in price.

I bought some extra filters and the total cost was B 38000.

It was only installed yesterday, so early days, but will see how it all goes.

Thanks again to everyone who provided an input to my project.

[chiang mai]

Great news, I'll be interested to see how it works out.

One question, where did you get your well water test kit from?

[carlyai]

Great news, I'll be interested to see how it works out.

One question, where did you get your well water test kit from?