Thai officials to slash number of foreign English teachers

[SilveradoCruz]

This is motivated by cost. Thais spend significantly more on (bad) education than other (more proficient) countries as shown by the recent report. The reason for high cost is middle men. Every MOE initiative with a budget haemorrhages the bulk of the budget on the bidding process, if you get my meaning, with the winning bid sharing its margin generously. What's left, will only pay for "budget" courses run by non-native speakers but by then no-one cares. The PR story is the administration finally doing something, which it isn't really. Just lots more loose change dripping into deep pockets.

The other interesting trend from the proficiency report was internet usage. Countries that don't have a "Google it" mentality seems to do worst, on all continents, not just in Thailand. Absolutely confirms the need for educational reform to embrace critical thinking.

The cost of NES teachers is masked by corruption in the system. More schools every year are signing agency contracts to provide NES staff. The reason is a corrupt profit scheme. The agency bills the school something in the range of 50 K to 65 K per teacher (these are real numbers...not something I have made up). The teacher gets 30 - 35 K, the agency does NOT keep the excess 30 K as profit which would be a ridiculous amount by global standards for a placement firm. The agency usually kicks back some amount to the school admin, which of course is why the school keeps the contract. The students and the NES teachers basically get screwed while the agency makes a more than fair profit and the school director(s) usually profit handsomely. This is the current game.....all the government need do is to force the schools to hire direct instead of via agencies and assign an auditor for foreign teacher salaries. The NES teachers will make more than they make now, the students likely will get more professional instruction as the higher salaries will allow a higher standard of teacher, but the directors will get no more kickbacks..... Just the way the world works here.

Exactly. Replacing Native speakers with "retrained" Thai teachers is a PR coup, but mainly increases the margins for directors and others with their hands out.

[tuanku]

I wonder what the results would be if they surveyed 43,000 Thais with native English speaking partners. They'd do a lot better than the teachers I would guess, particularly amongst those who have lived and worked abroad for a time. Of course they would never get a teaching job as they mostly do not have university degrees, or even in many cases a graduation from high school. Still that is the section of Thai society where English is probably most widely spoken, along with mixed race children with Western fathers (or in a few cases mothers)

[cumgranosalum]

Yet another Thai nabob emerges from the toilet with an idea for a dictum.... Unplanned, unresearched and unfeasable.... No wonder Thailand is on the bottom of almost every EL league you care to choose.

They are currently masking it more and more difficult for foreigners to get work permits and companiuesbeho wish to learn English are unable to get teachers for long term projects.... The way the laboiur laws are set up means that it is just about impossible for professional, trained foreign EL providers to set up schools that service education, commerce and industry.... Leaving it to Thai nationals who haven't a clue about TEFL, and whose only interest is the bottom dollar.
The way some of the major institutions both language schools and universities are run here us an absolute scandal. Corruption replaces merit on every stage and level..... The local British Council must be rubbing their hands with glee at the prope't of dipping their fingers into the Thai government's honeypots.....

[GeckosDiving]

Thailand just went full retard.

[waldroj]

Prayut, I have a question for you. Would you expect a foreigner to teach Thai language effectively to other foreigners?

Even with an intensive six-week training course (taught by native-Thai specialists), I would suggest that, while some just may, MOST would not, simply because they’d would still lack the repertoire and skills (acquired over a lifetime) needed to allow the comfortable flow of language communication to facilitate learning.

If we now restrict our focus to the English language, Harmer (2005, p. 8) points out that the English-speaking world can be divided into: countries where English is spoken as a first language (Great Britain, North America, and Australasia); countries where English is spoken as a second or significant language (Singapore, Malaysia, India, Pakistan); and other countries with varying needs to use the language (cultural, commercial, aviation, maritime, etc).

Compared to a non-native speaker, a native speaker teaching English is most likely going to: possess a far greater vocabulary; have a greater understanding of how the language has evolved over time in its many manifestations; and, know what constitutes appropriate English in specific context (General Use, Special Purposes, and Formal).

In that context, if the junta were truly serious above improving English-language skills among Thai students, then perhaps they should be seeking to recruit more English teachers from the countries listed in the first two categories above.

As that is unlikely to happen, then there are going to be problems all around if the junta continues with this short-sighted plan!

Without criticising Thai teachers, the obvious problem for many of them is going to be, how can they teach someone to speak the English language when they do not speak it well themselves? The end result of this will be greater pressure and stress on these teachers, through no fault of their own. As for the students (those who will get their education in this country), the result will be that they will not receive the appropriate level of English training needed to succeed in today’s globalised world.

While English may not be the most spoken language in the world, it is probably the dominant business language. If that wasn’t reason enough (to give the proper teaching of English appropriate importance), then being able to communicate comfortably in English is increasingly important to enhance a person’s ability to succeed in the global workforce.

If the plan is based simply on slashing costs, the end result will be anything but a cost saving for Thailand. If the junta’s desire is to return Thailand to some halcyon time from Prayut’s memory (of a small elite being lauded by a large populace of dumb underlings) – then this plan will be a great success!

Perhaps, this is another motive behind it? Seeing that this post suggests Thailand performs so badly in English Language Proficiency, maybe the junta just want to phase out English all together and try their luck with something else instead – like Chinese?

Harmer, Jeremy, 2005 (3^rd ed.), The Practice of English Language Teaching, Harlow: Pearson/Longman

[carlyai]

The biggest problem Thailand has is the country has so many dialects versions of the Thai language that the Thai teachers teaching English in a province school may likely come from an area that their Thai is not fully undrstood by the students in the English class, much less their use of English. So they're fighting 2 language barriers in many cases, thus a self-inflicted hurdle that the "brain trust" aka as Ministry of Education seems to have overlooked.

Of course hiring the thick accented foreign teachers to teach English as the case is at present who themselves cannot speak discernibly clear English, yet are contracted to teach Phonetics to Thai students.

Being located where Thailand is from own experience the most suitable people to teach English are New Zealanders. They peak what I call "straight English" same as people native of California. I speak as a foreigner (Dutch) graduated from 4-years college in NZ and PHD / J.D, degrees from California universities. I have recommended Thais to go to NZ to learn English, not a one of them has been disappointed with that recommendation.

Nah, we don't want Kiwis here, cause they beat us in the Rugby World Cup.

[willyumiii]

I was once a foreign English teacher in Thailand.

As a result, I know many Thai English teachers.

Most Thai English teachers do not really speak English!

Most of those who do speak English speak it very poorly.

I agree that they need to teach English to Thai English teachers, but it should be done at the university lever, before they become teachers.

I think hireing a better quality of foreign teacher, and paying high enough salaries to hire real teachers, and not backpackers and retired people with no experience in teaching, would be a much better way to improve the program.

I really do feel sorry for the students...some of them do try very hard!

[Jingthing]

Honestly, native English speaking teachers don't need to be very expensive. Make the visa situation easier for them and many young native English speakers will want to do this for at least a few years just for the adventure. Yes, I'm saying they're willing to be exploited and it seems daft to me not to take advantage of that for the good of the future of Thailand. Yes, Thailand would benefit with better English.

Yes I understand just being a native English speaker doesn't make you a good teacher.

But I happen to think a native English speaker with even basic training in teaching is better than a trained teacher who can't really speak English.

Well said JT, I agree completely.

JT:

No. It doesn't work that way. Language teaching is a skill that requires levels of education and training. Thailand, along with my country of Japan, and several others in the region, already suffer from the "gap year" English man/woman-children. Enough, I say. Send ESL teachers abroad as part of their training, or hire qualified Native English Teachers with education backgrounds and experience. No more "adventurers." That's no way to teach what is oft-touted as a "core" subject across East and Southeast Asia.

Nope. Nope. Nope.

I never suggested it was ideal. It is already clear Thailand for the most part isn't willing to pay the price for highly qualified native English speaking teachers. But I don't see how a trained teacher who can't speak English can possibly teach English to anyone.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Jingthing

[Mudcrab]

By many ESL teachers own admission the standard of English achieved is very low.

How long can you keep blaming the students?

How long can a poor tradesman blame his tools?

Maybe the Ministry has finally woken up to this as well and realised the standard of teaching is totally ineffective , so they might as well go it alone with some train the trainer exercises and see if that works.

if it doesn't there will always be farang teachers to reemploy.

Or alternatively immigration has had a word about the 'tourists' working scam.

Either way I predict there will be a rash of 'help, how can I stay in Thailand' threads quite soon

[TechnikaIII]

500 in a population of 90,000,000 to do crash course in 6 weeks?

( Elections needed and soon )

[cumgranosalum]

I wonder what the results would be if they surveyed 43,000 Thais with native English speaking partners. They'd do a lot better than the teachers I would guess, particularly amongst those who have lived and worked abroad for a time. Of course they would never get a teaching job as they mostly do not have university degrees, or even in many cases a graduation from high school. Still that is the section of Thai society where English is probably most widely spoken, along with mixed race children with Western fathers (or in a few cases mothers)

speaking a language and teaching it are not the same.

[Just1Voice]

I've got a 19 year old niece who is in her first year of law at Mae Fah Luang University in Chiang Rai. She told me last week they had their mid-term exams, and that when the test result came out, there was a mass of students who resigned and applied in other universities. Why? MFU teaches all classes in English, and the students simply can't understand. She said she scored a 92% on her English Exams, but that didn't surprise me. Her mother was smart enough a long time ago to make sure her daughter had excellent English skills. Not just read and writing, but in speaking as well. If you spoke to her in English, you would never believe she is Thai.

MFU has a great gig going. Charge high tuition fees, then if the student drops out - no refund. From an article I read on line, usually 20-30% of Freshmen drop out ever year.

[Mudcrab]

.... Even one new word a day. After 10

years of schooling. They would know 2,000 -2,500 words. More then enough to get by !

10 new words a day is the stahdard goal for our proper language students....

I sincerely hope your students are not learning English.

[cumgranosalum]

By many ESL teachers own admission the standard of English achieved is very low.

How long can you keep blaming the students?

How long can a poor tradesman blame his tools?

Maybe the Ministry has finally woken up to this as well and realised the standard of teaching is totally ineffective , so they might as well go it alone with some train the trainer exercises and see if that works.

if it doesn't there will always be farang teachers to reemploy.

Or alternatively immigration has had a word about the 'tourists' working scam.

Either way I predict there will be a rash of 'help, how can I stay in Thailand' threads quite soon

Nobody blames the students - Thailand has an appaling environment for teaching - even if you are the best teacher in thwe world the uniformed "officials" formulate theior own ideas based on, well....nothing....and prevent proper education from taking place.

They also haven't even identified the areas where English should be taught - schools are not the only place people lear English.....and Universities' provision for EL is just a joke...the workplace then ends up trying to balance work and education.....not a satisfactory situation at all...

[Mudcrab]

I was once a foreign English teacher in Thailand.

As a result, I know many Thai English teachers.

Most Thai English teachers do not really speak English!

Most of those who do speak English speak it very poorly.

I agree that they need to teach English to Thai English teachers, but it should be done at the university lever, before they become teachers.

I think hireing a better quality of foreign teacher, and paying high enough salaries to hire real teachers, and not backpackers and retired people with no experience in teaching, would be a much better way to improve the program.

I really do feel sorry for the students...some of them do try very hard!

Oh dear.

[JGV]

The point is that it is better than the population can't speak English as educated people are a threat to the status quo

Retain control and power don't empower. Just read Marx

JGV

[cumgranosalum]

I've got a 19 year old niece who is in her first year of law at Mae Fah Luang University in Chiang Rai. She told me last week they had their mid-term exams, and that when the test result came out, there was a mass of students who resigned and applied in other universities. Why? MFU teaches all classes in English, and the students simply can't understand. She said she scored a 92% on her English Exams, but that didn't surprise me. Her mother was smart enough a long time ago to make sure her daughter had excellent English skills. Not just read and writing, but in speaking as well. If you spoke to her in English, you would never believe she is Thai.

MFU has a great gig going. Charge high tuition fees, then if the student drops out - no refund. From an article I read on line, usually 20-30% of Freshmen drop out ever year.

I hrdly think drop out rates are a criteria for "good education" - and fee paying is often a hindrance...

Edited November 13, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[Equalizer]

rooks rike they are all going to be tarking rike thit for a rot ronger.

[SlyAnimal]

1) No way its CELTA intensive - to qualify for that you have to have a C1 CEFR score. That's almost the highest level of English understanding, near native.

2) You speak like someone who has no experience in a Thai school system. You naively believe Thai English teachers can improve their English teaching skills significantly IN 6 WEEKS

3) As explained in other posts, foreign English teachers are NOT more expensive. Look at your math, if you have Thai teachers staying on for 30-40 years, imagine what their salaries balloon too? Vs. a foreign teacher who gets paid 50k a month with minimal benefits.

The top 500x teachers in Thailand should have C1 or higher. Even at my school our head of English got B2, and I've met quite a few Thai English teachers who have had higher fluency when speaking than him. Remember too, Thailand is a big country, so to have 500x teachers with good English, you only need 1x teacher with good English out of 100,000 people (Or an average of about 7-8 in each province).

And in 6 weeks of intensive study of Thai at Chula I significantly improved my Thai, there's no reason why the teachers can't improve their English & teaching ability in the same way if it's done right. Most Farang teachers learn to teach via TESOL or CELTA courses, which can take anywhere from 1 - 6 weeks depending on the legitimacy of the school etc. I'm pretty sure that a Thai teacher can learn as much or more in 6 weeks, as what a Farang teacher learns in 1-6 weeks. And since it's being managed by the British Council, it'll probably be intensive & not just a sight seeing holiday like the seminars were for teachers that scored A1/A2.

Thai teachers, who are civil servants, start at 15,000 THB per month, Farang teachers usually start at 30,000 - 35,000 THB, possibly more in Bangkok (Or less if they have no qualifications). After about 15 years, the Thai teachers are earning around 30,000 THB per month, so average it out to maybe a 1000 THB pay rise each year. After 20 years they'll probably be earning 35,000 - 40,000, possibly more/less depending on their personal development & leadership responsibilities etc. Now if you'd like to show me some of that maths you're talking about, I'd be happy to show you where you've made a mistake in your equation

Over the course of a 30-35 year career, Thai teachers are definitely more cost effective than hiring ~20 different NES teachers who often only stay in Thailand for 2-3 years and don't do any where near the amount of administrative duties that Thai teachers do. NES teachers are hired because the Thai teacher's English and teaching methods aren't effective, it's not ideal, but until there's a big enough supply of competent Thai English teachers to meet demands, NES will be hired (Probably for at least the next 10-20 years, since as I said, it'll take at least a generation, and that's if they decided to actually go about it in the right way and not just go for short term fixes, which is generally what they have instead focused on in the past).

[Waldkater41]

Hahahahahaha, is it 1st of April already?

Ohhhhh please get all foreign teachers out of Thai schools.....and get crowned "Buffalos of the year" in the future!!!

[gyrosman]

Country nearly closed.

At least, the inhabitants of this country will not be able to communicate with the other persons living on the planet. Thus, they'll not be touched by "bad ideas".

Yes, Facebook will be their roll model and I was a teacher here for 3 years. There is a saying in the USA; " A brain is a terrible thing to waste".

[William C F Pierce]

If the English teaching books written by Thai University professors is anything to go by, where spelling and grammer mistakes are common. This would be a backward step. The majority of Thais that speak English will persist in speaking Thai using English words.Their inbuilt refusal to recognise and use plural words is quite common. If you speak with any Chinese visitor to Thailand that speaks English in is a very pleasant experience.

[Caitrin]

I never suggested it was ideal. It is already clear Thailand for the most part isn't willing to pay the price for highly qualified native English speaking teachers. But I don't see how a trained teacher who can't speak English can possibly teach English to anyone.

The problem is, a teacher who isn't specifically trained in pedagogy and methodology, and possibly even child or adolescent psychology (or at least "psychology of learning") can actually do great harm to students. I agree a trained teacher who isn't actually trained in the subject that he or she is expected to teach (in this case English as a language for genuine communication) can't possibly teach English to anyone. However, a native English speaker without educational training can create bad habits in students without understanding how to correct them or excise them later. Sometimes I allow students to pick up bad habits very early on to more rapidly increase their ability to communicate thoughts, beliefs, desires, and goals, but I do so with a planned outcome of excising them later. This requires both training AND years of experience to implement.

Sometimes native English "teachers" do more harm than good.

[apalink_thailand]

More Mandarin language teachers, makes more sense to me. The country has been sold to the Chinese, in case anyone has noticed.

[apalink_thailand]

Recently you couldn't swing a dead cat in a pub and not hit a teacher. Cheap Charlie's will be dead.

[stickylies]

Common guys give them a break...

We all understand:

. Dezmorley

. Suhpain

. Massaaaaat

. Nooden

[cyberfarang]

I can understand the decision to a point.

Many foreign English teachers are not first language English speakers, are not fully qualified for the job, require high minimum salaries, there are visa and work permit complications, a lot of them are only in Thailand temporary and most do not speak Thai that makes it difficult to translate from Thai the meaning of English words.

[Mudcrab]

The point is that it is better than the population can't speak English as educated people are a threat to the status quo

Retain control and power don't empower. Just read Marx

JGV

Bit hard..all the Russian teachers seem to have left.

Or do you mean Groucho?

[12DrinkMore]

This is a pretty good idea. As if the British Council is doing the intensive 6 week training course I'd imagine that it'll be CELTA or similar that the Thai teachers are going through. Not only will it improve their English significantly, but it'll teach them how to teach more effectively.

As it's meant to be for the best English teachers at each school it'll likely be heads of department, or teachers who have the full support of the head of dept, and so they'll have the authority/status required to teach the other teachers.

"Slashing" the number of foreign teachers wouldn't be a good move at this stage, but long term that's where Thailand needs to head to. Also they didn't say if by foreign they meant NESs or non-NESs. As they need better Thai teachers, they can't rely on every school having foreign teachers, there simply aren't enough to go around, and so it just increases the inequality between the rich & poor schools.

My personal view is, and has been for a long time, that Thailand needs to spend money on teaching the teachers if they want to be successful. Foreign NES teachers are more expensive and often only stay teaching in Thailand for a few years. Comparatively Thai teachers start on less than half of the salary most foreigners are paid & can increase their ability over a career of 30-40 years, rather than just 1-5.

The current problem is though, that they start at such a low level that even after 30 years they're usually not as effective at teaching as a NES is after 3 years experience. Which is why the teachers need to have their level increased, courses like this one will help, but it's only (hopefully) the first step, the next step being reassigning foreign teachers from high schools to universities where they can teach the teachers. Thailand needs to look forward to the next generation, as it's already too late for this generation.

I have never met a Thai who would get through a CELTA course.

[taony]

555555555555555555!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good idea!

Soon we'll hear its time for Year Zero