MobileContent Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Farang teachers have been teaching English for the past 15 years in Thailand and it didn't do any good to the students as they still do not speak English so let the Thais sort it out themselves. I have met so many English teachers in Thailand and can only say that I don't want most of them near my child. In our Amphur we are now flooded with African teachers which is also not my cup of tea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthesculptor Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Hahahaha.... One more sign that unlike the great Thai people. The government is taking a tack that appears xenophobic at its base. I hope I am wrong. But it is easy to see why my daughter is at the top of her English classes... There is a native English speaker at home.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilveradoCruz Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 This is motivated by cost. Thais spend significantly more on (bad) education than other (more proficient) countries as shown by the recent report. The reason for high cost is middle men. Every MOE initiative with a budget haemorrhages the bulk of the budget on the bidding process, if you get my meaning, with the winning bid sharing its margin generously. What's left, will only pay for "budget" courses run by non-native speakers but by then no-one cares. The PR story is the administration finally doing something, which it isn't really. Just lots more loose change dripping into deep pockets. The other interesting trend from the proficiency report was internet usage. Countries that don't have a "Google it" mentality seems to do worst, on all continents, not just in Thailand. Absolutely confirms the need for educational reform to embrace critical thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickylies Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I have never seen a country that keeps shooting themselves in the foot. I have lived all over the world but this is just flabbergasting. They can't or don't want to speak English with the teachers they have now. I can understand why they say " TIT " , because the people who make these decisions aren't educated either! They don't care what you, we, tv, the world think. Up to them which is ok to me. Their history proves they dis much better than their less fortunate west, north, east neighbours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Deerhunter Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 What is NOT said above, but I have read elsewhere, is that 43,000 Thai teachers of English were tested and only SIX reached the required level of proficiency in English. What standard are the other 42, 994? And what percentage of fluency is that? Only 0.01395% of Thai teachers tested in English were reasonably fluent. It boggles the mind that the cretins in the Ministry could even contemplate such lunacy. NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is 0.0001395 Your figure, 0.01395 was 6 out of 430!!! Where did you learn maths? Thailand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthesculptor Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Hahahaha.... One more sign that unlike the great Thai people. The government is taking a tack that appears xenophobic at its base. I hope I am wrong. But it is easy to see why my daughter is at the top of her English classes... There is a native English speaker at home.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewsterbudgen Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I'm glad the source of this article was Coconuts, it has eased the Mind-Blown experience at least a little bit............. Dont want to rain on your parade its headlines in the Unmentionable other English language paper Still its utter madness! Both articles make it pretty clear it's a long-term plan and it is something that should be aimed for. Of course it is better to use well-trained local teachers than rely on foreign teachers forever. The headline that Coconuts uses is typical of the sensationalism of gutter rags. Why ?. It will always be better to have a native speaker doing the teaching. When I went to school, the French teachers were always French. That way you get the correct pronunciation and inflexion as well. I've yet to meet a Thai who understands future tense. Most Thai teachers of English that I know have a better understanding of English grammar than many native speakers and know that there are only two tenses in English, and no such thing as the "future tense". That said, their pronunciation is generally appalling and there will always be a need for Thai students to learn this from native speakers if they want to use English for anything except basic communication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lingba Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Well just about everything that I have been thinking has already been said here...This will be an absolute farce and 9 steps backwards...all they think about is trying to pinch on paying "Quality and educated " foreign teachers a good salary...they would rather get away with paying a cheap wage to an insufficient teacher...and the students end up losing...90% of Thai teachers trying to teach English are pronouncing words wrong and providing alot of wrong information re' grammatical rules...and I say this coming from first hand experience...I realize there are alot of unqualified losers of english teachers out there working ..but the schools really need to focus on getting first rate teachers with strong qualified backgrounds to do the job....and just face it!..you want quality, you have to pay... Who on earth came up with this absolute stupidity of an idea?...Leave it up to Thailand to spend more time finding ways to humiliate themselves and step in the opposite direction of educated and rational progress...The mindset is so overwhelmed with "pinching baht" instead of making the people and the country a better place to be. Good luck Thailand as you step into the world of ASEAN..you will be the laughing stock and the epitamy of what countries should not be doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilveradoCruz Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 This is motivated by cost. Thais spend significantly more on (bad) education than other (more proficient) countries as shown by the recent report. The reason for high cost is middle men. Every MOE initiative with a budget haemorrhages the bulk of the budget on the bidding process, if you get my meaning, with the winning bid sharing its margin generously. What's left, will only pay for "budget" courses run by non-native speakers but by then no-one cares. The PR story is the administration finally doing something, which it isn't really. Just lots more loose change dripping into deep pockets. The other interesting trend from the proficiency report was internet usage. Countries that don't have a "Google it" mentality seems to do worst, on all continents, not just in Thailand. Absolutely confirms the need for educational reform to embrace critical thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caitrin Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 The biggest problem Thailand has is the country has so many dialects versions of the Thai language that the Thai teachers teaching English in a province school may likely come from an area that their Thai is not fully undrstood by the students in the English class, much less their use of English. So they're fighting 2 language barriers in many cases, thus a self-inflicted hurdle that the "brain trust" aka as Ministry of Education seems to have overlooked. Of course hiring the thick accented foreign teachers to teach English as the case is at present who themselves cannot speak discernibly clear English, yet are contracted to teach Phonetics to Thai students. Being located where Thailand is from own experience the most suitable people to teach English are New Zealanders. They peak what I call "straight English" same as people native of California. I speak as a foreigner (Dutch) graduated from 4-years college in NZ and PHD / J.D, degrees from California universities. I have recommended Thais to go to NZ to learn English, not a one of them has been disappointed with that recommendation. I speak Standard American English (or SAE), also called "Broadcast English" in the United States, and it is an accent and pronunciation largely predicated on the belief that its use allows everyone all over the U.S. to tune into broadcast journalism and understand, regardless of the unique regional accents and dialects used across the country. Educated urbanites, of which many exist in California, have this accent. My word choices and spelling have been influenced by my experiences in Commonwealth communities (as you may have noticed), but my accent remains SAE. Trust me, urbane (not to be confused with "urban" which is often a codeword for "minority non-white") Californians do not share an accent with urbane Kiwis, although both should be very clear and easily understood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmh8 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Its not been said so far. Thai people have crap English. Even after studying abroad for many it is crap, and they shy away from speaking it. Thus, far Thailand has had many Native english speakers and non native speakers teaching English. This has not worked. university students at " international universiteies" on international programs. the students were crap at speaking English - bar some exceptions- 5 years ago. today it is the same, unable to communicate in English nor anseer even the most simple of quesitons. I beelieve this is a good step forward. the education bureau of money spending has realised that hiring foreign teachers has not worked. thus they deal with the probelm head on. train the halfwits that train the children properly. in the hope the children will learn properly and not grow up to be halfwits. To be honest, such a move could not hurt. I would like to set up one of those surveys about how lack of foreign english teachers would lower quality of english language sspeaking in thailand. I would be willing to bet - were it legal- that at the worst it will remain exactly the same. edited to add does anyone really believe the english speaking skills could get worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dao16 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 One of the big problems with this solution is that "teacher training" here isn't really what one would expect. As others have said, they will sit there and chat among themselves, look at things on facebook and zone out. Believe me. I have been to them and also facilitated them. They go away learning very little and getting a certificate and everybody is happy. Maybe the British Council (of which I have a very good impression from knowing staff members and teachers there) can pull this off, but I think the institutional and cultural norms will be pretty hard to put aside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimdandy Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retarius Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I have been appalled by the low standard for English among Thai English teachers. These emerge from 4 or 5 years at university unable to carry any sort of conversation in English and with appalling accents which are not understandable, and a lot worse than your average bar girl in Pattaya. I do think though that part of the problem of hiring, often uneducated, native English speakers to partner the teachers in the classroom was flawed. I know several who have done this, and they don't have an O level between them. You don;t want your kids being taught by a 60 year old ex-plumber who has run out of money in his retirement (no disrespect to plumbers intended, they do a great job at plumbing). The best ones are the graduate teachers who come in on some sort of voluntary program, but they tend to only stay a short while and don't stay on as the pay is so low. The proposed "teach the teachers" program is one of those best practice transference idea which are great in theory but never work in practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimjim1968 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Let's get back to the Dark Ages. Meanwhile, my wife comes home crying as she is surrounded by Thai government teachers who refuse to teach their kids and would rather just draw the salary. Ya. Good luck with that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupermarineS6B Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 What did you expect ? There's a massive problem at the moment with the airlines in this part of the world not being able to understand English or even communicate properly with ATC, and now they come up with this little gem of lunacy..... Oh dear, what a mess........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmatix Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I am not a teacher but have met a number of Thai English teachers from state schools over the years. Most have an embarrassingly poor level of spoken English, particularly their pronunciation which is often incomprehensible. Of course they refuse to speak Thai with me due to loss of face, so I have to struggle to understand them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectrumisgreen Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Good deal for the BC (and their ministry contact!) no doubt.. as for someone thinking the govt may use this to get rid of 'iffy' non-native English teachers, such as (many) Philipinos.. you're missing the whole point.. of money-saving! (Why there's already so many already getting the contracts - and extra work!! - while many of us qualified and experienced native speakers get told 'Sorry, have to let you go...'.. and, yes, I KNOW from very personal experience, hence why I now teach elsewhere than 'country Thailand'!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonray Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 This is motivated by cost. Thais spend significantly more on (bad) education than other (more proficient) countries as shown by the recent report. The reason for high cost is middle men. Every MOE initiative with a budget haemorrhages the bulk of the budget on the bidding process, if you get my meaning, with the winning bid sharing its margin generously. What's left, will only pay for "budget" courses run by non-native speakers but by then no-one cares. The PR story is the administration finally doing something, which it isn't really. Just lots more loose change dripping into deep pockets. The other interesting trend from the proficiency report was internet usage. Countries that don't have a "Google it" mentality seems to do worst, on all continents, not just in Thailand. Absolutely confirms the need for educational reform to embrace critical thinking. The cost of NES teachers is masked by corruption in the system. More schools every year are signing agency contracts to provide NES staff. The reason is a corrupt profit scheme. The agency bills the school something in the range of 50 K to 65 K per teacher (these are real numbers...not something I have made up). The teacher gets 30 - 35 K, the agency does NOT keep the excess 30 K as profit which would be a ridiculous amount by global standards for a placement firm. The agency usually kicks back some amount to the school admin, which of course is why the school keeps the contract. The students and the NES teachers basically get screwed while the agency makes a more than fair profit and the school director(s) usually profit handsomely. This is the current game.....all the government need do is to force the schools to hire direct instead of via agencies and assign an auditor for foreign teacher salaries. The NES teachers will make more than they make now, the students likely will get more professional instruction as the higher salaries will allow a higher standard of teacher, but the directors will get no more kickbacks..... Just the way the world works here. I might add that the scheme creates great animosity to the NES teachers from regular thai teaching staff because they only hear that the 'farang' is being paid 65K and that enrages them. When in reality the excess is being sucked out by the scam, which they will never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectrumisgreen Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Good deal for the BC (and their ministry contact!) no doubt.. as for someone thinking the govt may use this to get rid of 'iffy' non-native English teachers, such as (many) Philipinos.. you're missing the whole point.. of money-saving! (Why there's already so many already getting the contracts - and extra work!! - while many of us qualified and experienced native speakers get told 'Sorry, have to let you go...'!!).. and, yes, I KNOW from very personal experience, hence why I now teach elsewhere than 'country Thailand'!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Watcher Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 If you want to train barmen and " bar girls" there's not much need for English, they can learn on the job. Same with tourism " you want to play Ping-Pong?" and other phrases will suffice... But if Thailand wants to train real professionals, they need Native speakers, and real teachers with experience in a wide variety of career choices, that students (and adults) need for an up to date Thailand... AND PAY THEM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKResort Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 This is a non sense because most Thai English teachers, not only do not the language, also do not not how to teach, and do not have the right material to teach Thai students. What really will happen very soon, is that the field will be invaded by young teachers from other Asean countries..specially Vietnam, Malaysia, and Myanmar, even China, with the new visa rules for those countries. After Asean implanted, I can good see many young Thais unemployed in areas where good/fluent English knowledge is a must... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuwadeeS Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Let it say straight: Thailand for Thais. We do not need foreigners. If this really going to happen, the export will drop again. Further, you have to understand why do they do that. Because, if the people can not understand English, they will not be able to read the truth online. If you keep a folk uneducated and st***d, they are easier to control. .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caitrin Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Most Thai teachers of English that I know have a better understanding of English grammar than many native speakers and know that there are only two tenses in English, and no such thing as the "future tense". That said, their pronunciation is generally appalling and there will always be a need for Thai students to learn this from native speakers if they want to use English for anything except basic communication. A true grammarian would know that the debate is not settled. While some grammarians argue that the use of the auxiliary verb will does not constitute its own future tense when combined with the "present tense" verb form, other grammarians in fact do argue that this constitutes its own future tense. In fact, there are those who argue that just because we use the same form of a verb to indicate the future ("we have a test tomorrow, and we have one now") does not necessarily mean that it's really acting as a present tense. They argue instead that its usage to mean the future automatically makes it a future tense in practice, and we should recognise it as such. This is why Native English Teachers need to really be teachers, with actual training and experience. That way, they can teach both the grammar and the pronunciation. The decision to have pronunciation English "teachers" and Thai (or any other non-Native speaking) "grammar" teachers is that you have two people doing what should be a one person job. Of course that's a problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 "Under the "train-the-trainer" program, a group of 500 Thai teachers who teach English in government schools nationwide will take part in an intensive six-week training course taught by English specialists from the British Council." Fundamentally,it's the right idea. The problem is that 6 weeks is nowhere near long enough. How many schools teaching English are there in the country? 1000, 2000, 500 isn't nearly enough, and these will be the best they have. All at different levels. At minimum they need to give intensive 6 months training to each English teacher in the country. By that I mean every day, training in speaking reading and writing English. 6 weeks with 500 won't even register a ripple in language progress to justify removing native speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phazey Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 What impact would this have on private non-government schools? Surely the authorities cannot dictate what staff and teachers are in those ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MobileContent Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Honestly, native English speaking teachers don't need to be very expensive. Make the visa situation easier for them and many young native English speakers will want to do this for at least a few years just for the adventure. Yes, I'm saying they're willing to be exploited and it seems daft to me not to take advantage of that for the good of the future of Thailand. Yes, Thailand would benefit with better English. Yes I understand just being a native English speaker doesn't make you a good teacher. But I happen to think a native English speaker with even basic training in teaching is better than a trained teacher who can't really speak English. Well said JT, I agree completely. JT: No. It doesn't work that way. Language teaching is a skill that requires levels of education and training. Thailand, along with my country of Japan, and several others in the region, already suffer from the "gap year" English man/woman-children. Enough, I say. Send ESL teachers abroad as part of their training, or hire qualified Native English Teachers with education backgrounds and experience. No more "adventurers." That's no way to teach what is oft-touted as a "core" subject across East and Southeast Asia. Nope. Nope. Nope. You might a very valid point. A friend of my Mrs was raised overseas as his father was attached to the Royal Thai Embassy in Germany. 25% of the fees at the International School of Berlin was forked up by his parents and the remaining 75% was paid by the Thai government in exchange for becoming an English teacher. He is making his exams sometime in the next 4 months and I had a long chat with him two weeks. His English and German IS PERFECT and I feel his English is even better then my English. When I asked him if he was the only one that signed up for becoming a teacher in Thailand he told me no, their are many Thais that took part in the program which was launched around 7 - 8 years ago and it is is still ongoing. According to him their are a few hundreds that participated internationally in the program and they should be entering soon as qualified English teachers in the Thai school system. I feel it is those in the 20's now that had exposure internationally that have a great standard and that are able to change the current situation in Thailand. Of course it will not be tomorrow but in 5 to 10 years time I am confident their will be improvements. If 200 a year can be educated overseas (from a young age of course) it could benefit Thailand greatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MockingJay Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Rrrright, because the Thai English teachers "hepp mutt betta punounziaescheen"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retsdon Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 .... Even one new word a day. After 10 years of schooling. They would know 2,000 -2,500 words. More then enough to get by ! 10 new words a day is the stahdard goal for our proper language students.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usernames Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Ah , they are making room for Chinese language teachers. China is going to be a bigger part in Thailand's future , logical. Like for the rest of the world...... But the Chinese are learning English. Hmm. Ah, but now it will be the Chinese who teach English in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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