Immigrants' spouses 'must speak English before entering UK'

[Jonmarleesco]

Thaivisa posters on top form.

I assume you're all fluent in Thai.

They'll tell you that they are only here temporarily. "I'm a non-immigrant, my visa even says so..." Ignoring the fact they are actually on extensions of stay....

Besides, they bring in so much money, that silly rules like this shouldn't apply to them.....only silly little brown fellas who will never integrate anyway.

I doubt Thailand has the variety of immigrants that the UK has, neither illegal nor legal. There is not much of a problem in Thailand for those who don't speak the language, so long as, ironically, they can speak English. And no one beyond Thailand's borders uses Thai as a formal means of communication. I would also remind you that immigrants to the UK enjoy, rightly or wrongly, a number of privileges that foreign residents in Thailand don't have. Reasonable, then, that they should contribute something towards their stay, if only knowledge of the lingo.

[brewsterbudgen]

I hope Thailand doesn't follow suit.

Don't you need language skills for residency and to become a national in Thailand then?

It's a good job that Thailand does not have the same rule. Not many guys would be allowed in

As someone has already posted, if you want to stay permanently in Thailand you need to speak Thai. Fortunately most of us living here are mon-immigrants.

The A1 test for the UK is very basic.

[samran]

Thaivisa posters on top form.

I assume you're all fluent in Thai.

They'll tell you that they are only here temporarily. "I'm a non-immigrant, my visa even says so..." Ignoring the fact they are actually on extensions of stay....

Besides, they bring in so much money, that silly rules like this shouldn't apply to them.....only silly little brown fellas who will never integrate anyway.

I doubt Thailand has the variety of immigrants that the UK has, neither illegal nor legal. There is not much of a problem in Thailand for those who don't speak the language, so long as, ironically, they can speak English. And no one beyond Thailand's borders uses Thai as a formal means of communication. I would also remind you that immigrants to the UK enjoy, rightly or wrongly, a number of privileges that foreign residents in Thailand don't have. Reasonable, then, that they should contribute something towards their stay, if only knowledge of the lingo.

Whatever it takes to allow you to justify your double standard....

[Thai at Heart]

But French law cannot prevent a British person bringing their spouse to live in France! Daft perhaps but equal! The so called Surinder Singh route.

Only changes in EU law will change this or a decision to leave the EU. There will be many, many people avoiding national laws this way.

Doctors need to demonstrate a good standard of English. Not sure that the pharmacist does yet. Attempts are being made to change the rules so veterinary surgeons must meet English language requirements. Hopefully it will come to every job where lives are at stake!

No it is not equal. The spouse of EU citizen has more rights in the UK than those of the spouse of a British citizen.

[LukKrueng]

I hope Thailand doesn't follow suit.

It really should!!

[bobrussell]

But French law cannot prevent a British person bringing their spouse to live in France! Daft perhaps but equal! The so called Surinder Singh route.

Only changes in EU law will change this or a decision to leave the EU. There will be many, many people avoiding national laws this way.

Doctors need to demonstrate a good standard of English. Not sure that the pharmacist does yet. Attempts are being made to change the rules so veterinary surgeons must meet English language requirements. Hopefully it will come to every job where lives are at stake!

No it is not equal. The spouse of EU citizen has more rights in the UK than those of the spouse of a British citizen.

It is the EU citizen that has the rights, not the spouse. A British citizen has equal rights should they chose to live in another EU country.

The more strict immigration rules only apply to nationals of the country settling in their own country. If you are British you can take up residence in another EU country and your spouse will receive the available healthcare etc in that country and will be exempt from language requirements etc.

Everyone is treated equally. It is one of the oddities of EU v's national law.

[Thai at Heart]

But French law cannot prevent a British person bringing their spouse to live in France! Daft perhaps but equal! The so called Surinder Singh route.

Only changes in EU law will change this or a decision to leave the EU. There will be many, many people avoiding national laws this way.

Doctors need to demonstrate a good standard of English. Not sure that the pharmacist does yet. Attempts are being made to change the rules so veterinary surgeons must meet English language requirements. Hopefully it will come to every job where lives are at stake!

No it is not equal. The spouse of EU citizen has more rights in the UK than those of the spouse of a British citizen.

It is the EU citizen that has the rights, not the spouse. A British citizen has equal rights should they chose to live in another EU country.

The more strict immigration rules only apply to nationals of the country settling in their own country. If you are British you can take up residence in another EU country and your spouse will receive the available healthcare etc in that country and will be exempt from language requirements etc.

Everyone is treated equally. It is one of the oddities of EU v's national law.

There is no language requirements to take a spouse to France. None.

[laislica]

>Snip<

A note to those EEA bashers; if the UK insisted on migrants from other EEA countries learning English, then this would become an EEA wide requirement. How many of the approximately 2 million British citizens currently exercising an economic treaty right in another EEA country can speak the local language?

>Snip<

You make a very good point, however, from my personal experience, at almost 60, I retired to Spain, speaking not a word of Spanish.

My companion at that time was an English woman who also spoke no Spanish.

Our accommodation was a motor-home.

We lived on my pension and if asked, I could show regular transfers from Sterling to Euros for our living expenses.

Over time, we learned some Spanish.

At first it was very difficult to live in Spain, we needed a guide but we didn't have one.

We attended free Spanish lessons, bought books, CD's etc and started to learn.

After about 3 years our Spanish was enough to allow us to buy a property or two and employ a local builder to renovate for us.

Then hire an architect to make plans to rebuild part of a property.

I spent more than quarter of a million quid on the project over five years.

I should also add that, although we lived in a tiny Spanish hamlet in the countryside, we did not interract so much with the locals - the language barrier, plus cultural differences.

The Spanish generally do not invite strangers into their holms.

I was full time in Spain for more than 10 years before marrying a Thai.

I now spend 6 months in Spain and the rest in Thailand.

My Spanish is passable for our every day life - even on the phone!

I have been associated with Thailand for less than 4 years but I can manage a few words but cannot read anything significant.

At almost 74 - what's the point?

I did sign up to an online Thai course and was doing well before I got married and laziness kicked in!

My wife reads n writes and speaks Thai.

I can make do in Spanish and English.

We take care of each other as we travel but we both know enough so that, at times, when we are "foreign" and alone we are able to take a taxi, buy food, cloths etc without the need for support from anyone, even our other halves!.

The written Spanish is the same as British English, except for a few extra accent marks.

The Thai written language is totally different as is Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Arabic, Hindi etc and presents a huge new learning problem.

No problem if one is young enough - but after retirement age?

My point here is to say that the requirement to speak the local language should probably be related to ones age and working status, income or bank balance.

Should a person show that they have more than enough funds to enjoy a reasonable standard of life - why should they be required to pass a language test?

Show sufficient funds - job done, welcome and spend that lovely money.

Not enough funds and need to work - test away and rightly so.

Additionally, where there is a genuine marriage but not sufficient funds without working, why not allow the couple to reside there whilst they are given a reasonable time ( a year?) to acquire the necessary language skills.

The UK also have the Knowledge test which is so onerous that the majority of born and bred Brits would fail.

If Thailand decided to have a language test then I would have to learn to read and write and if given a year to do it to a basic level, I'm sure that I could do it.

However, this raises another point.

Many of us older folk have memory problems......

What should the rule makers do about that?

After all, we should consider what the Language skills requirement is all about - Integration?

Many countries have Ex-pat areas where the residents speak very little of the local language.

Spain is a prime example.

The result of this non-integration is that, generally, the shop keepers and restaurants in that area learn enough of the "Foreigners" languages to allow them to conduct business and to "tap" that financial resource.

Win - win?

[Vagabond1]

excelent...decision!

in uk english...

in france ..french

in germany ...german

and so on....it is incredible as thai woman can't learn any language even living with a foreigner in his own country...i have seen many example allready here....australian , english american etc etc ..!

in our rich countries we have more than enough ...immigration .....who do not integrate themself and use our taxes and laws to get only rights and a better life....and what does thailand for us in return...??????

just nothing ...here if you have money you can stay and if you dont ...even married or whatever ...you have to go.

so if i could decide i would aplicate the same laws as thailand aplicate to other citizens from others countries

eye for eye, teeth for teeth

and have a good day!

I had a different experience. I have met scores of Western immigrants in Thailand who could not say "hello" in Thai.

On the other hand, improbable as it may sound:

- A Thai lady in Sweden fluent in Swedish and English (15 years there, came with nothing, owns a small restaurant now, plans to go back home in 5 years)

- A Thai lady in Austria - fluent in German, server at an airport business lounge

- A Thai family in Germany - owners of (yes!) a street food stall - fluent in German and some English

Maybe those partners of foreigners in Thailand just have a small hope that their husbands will make an effort to learn Thai?

[laislica]

But French law cannot prevent a British person bringing their spouse to live in France! Daft perhaps but equal! The so called Surinder Singh route.

Only changes in EU law will change this or a decision to leave the EU. There will be many, many people avoiding national laws this way.

Doctors need to demonstrate a good standard of English. Not sure that the pharmacist does yet. Attempts are being made to change the rules so veterinary surgeons must meet English language requirements. Hopefully it will come to every job where lives are at stake!

No it is not equal. The spouse of EU citizen has more rights in the UK than those of the spouse of a British citizen.

It is the EU citizen that has the rights, not the spouse. A British citizen has equal rights should they chose to live in another EU country.

The more strict immigration rules only apply to nationals of the country settling in their own country. If you are British you can take up residence in another EU country and your spouse will receive the available healthcare etc in that country and will be exempt from language requirements etc.

Everyone is treated equally. It is one of the oddities of EU v's national law.

There is no language requirements to take a spouse to France. None.

Although I am a Brit, I have lived in Spain full time since retirement 15 years ago (see the post above)

I brought my Thai wife to Spain and applied for and eventually got her a Spanish "Foreigners" ID without any language requirements.

This ID allows her to come and go as she pleases, no visas or form filling and it's wonderful.

[Thai at Heart]

But French law cannot prevent a British person bringing their spouse to live in France! Daft perhaps but equal! The so called Surinder Singh route.

Only changes in EU law will change this or a decision to leave the EU. There will be many, many people avoiding national laws this way.

Doctors need to demonstrate a good standard of English. Not sure that the pharmacist does yet. Attempts are being made to change the rules so veterinary surgeons must meet English language requirements. Hopefully it will come to every job where lives are at stake!

No it is not equal. The spouse of EU citizen has more rights in the UK than those of the spouse of a British citizen.

It is the EU citizen that has the rights, not the spouse. A British citizen has equal rights should they chose to live in another EU country.

The more strict immigration rules only apply to nationals of the country settling in their own country. If you are British you can take up residence in another EU country and your spouse will receive the available healthcare etc in that country and will be exempt from language requirements etc.

Everyone is treated equally. It is one of the oddities of EU v's national law.

There is no language requirements to take a spouse to France. None.

Although I am a Brit, I have lived in Spain full time since retirement 15 years ago (see the post above)

I brought my Thai wife to Spain and applied for and eventually got her a Spanish "Foreigners" ID without any language requirements.

This ID allows her to come and go as she pleases, no visas or form filling and it's wonderful.

Exactly. If you were Spanish, you can bring your Thai wife to Britain with no income or language requirements.

As a Brit, you have to jump through a more stringent check than a European union citizen. This is a gross incongruity that should be changed.

The level required for non EU spouses married to EU and British citizens should be identical.

[laislica]

But French law cannot prevent a British person bringing their spouse to live in France! Daft perhaps but equal! The so called Surinder Singh route.

Only changes in EU law will change this or a decision to leave the EU. There will be many, many people avoiding national laws this way.

Doctors need to demonstrate a good standard of English. Not sure that the pharmacist does yet. Attempts are being made to change the rules so veterinary surgeons must meet English language requirements. Hopefully it will come to every job where lives are at stake!

No it is not equal. The spouse of EU citizen has more rights in the UK than those of the spouse of a British citizen.

It is the EU citizen that has the rights, not the spouse. A British citizen has equal rights should they chose to live in another EU country.

The more strict immigration rules only apply to nationals of the country settling in their own country. If you are British you can take up residence in another EU country and your spouse will receive the available healthcare etc in that country and will be exempt from language requirements etc.

Everyone is treated equally. It is one of the oddities of EU v's national law.

There is no language requirements to take a spouse to France. None.

Although I am a Brit, I have lived in Spain full time since retirement 15 years ago (see the post above)

I brought my Thai wife to Spain and applied for and eventually got her a Spanish "Foreigners" ID without any language requirements.

This ID allows her to come and go as she pleases, no visas or form filling and it's wonderful.

Exactly. If you were Spanish, you can bring your Thai wife to Britain with no income or language requirements.

As a Brit, you have to jump through a more stringent check than a European union citizen. This is a gross incongruity that should be changed.

The level required for non EU spouses married to EU and British citizens should be identical.

Agreed 100%

BTW, I just did an A1 English level 1 test online - got two wrong.

The question was :-

Fill in the correct prepositions We live in New York, in ( on ) The Bowery. We live in big apartment on the third floor. Our building is near the library. near ( near ) our apartment is a bakery. We are very happy in our neighbourhood

How the hell would I know what a Bowery was????

and my Near fault was not wrong?

(A bias against me he he)

[Richard W]

Exactly. If you were Spanish, you can bring your Thai wife to Britain with no income or language requirements.

As a Brit, you have to jump through a more stringent check than a European union citizen. This is a gross incongruity that should be changed.

The level required for non EU spouses married to EU and British citizens should be identical.

So if Cameron succeeds, Laislica will have to make sure his wife meets the requirements for being in Spain that a Spaniard's wife would have to meet. Does anyone know what they are?

[brewsterbudgen]

But French law cannot prevent a British person bringing their spouse to live in France! Daft perhaps but equal! The so called Surinder Singh route.

Only changes in EU law will change this or a decision to leave the EU. There will be many, many people avoiding national laws this way.

Doctors need to demonstrate a good standard of English. Not sure that the pharmacist does yet. Attempts are being made to change the rules so veterinary surgeons must meet English language requirements. Hopefully it will come to every job where lives are at stake!

No it is not equal. The spouse of EU citizen has more rights in the UK than those of the spouse of a British citizen.

It is the EU citizen that has the rights, not the spouse. A British citizen has equal rights should they chose to live in another EU country.

The more strict immigration rules only apply to nationals of the country settling in their own country. If you are British you can take up residence in another EU country and your spouse will receive the available healthcare etc in that country and will be exempt from language requirements etc.

Everyone is treated equally. It is one of the oddities of EU v's national law.

There is no language requirements to take a spouse to France. None.

Although I am a Brit, I have lived in Spain full time since retirement 15 years ago (see the post above)

I brought my Thai wife to Spain and applied for and eventually got her a Spanish "Foreigners" ID without any language requirements.

This ID allows her to come and go as she pleases, no visas or form filling and it's wonderful.

Exactly. If you were Spanish, you can bring your Thai wife to Britain with no income or language requirements.

As a Brit, you have to jump through a more stringent check than a European union citizen. This is a gross incongruity that should be changed.

The level required for non EU spouses married to EU and British citizens should be identical.

Agreed 100%

BTW, I just did an A1 English level 1 test online - got two wrong.

The question was :- Fill in the correct prepositions We live in New York, in ( on ) The Bowery. We live in big apartment on the third floor. Our building is near the library. near ( near ) our apartment is a bakery. We are very happy in our neighbourhood

How the hell would I know what a Bowery was????

and my Near fault was not wrong?

(A bias against me he he)

There is no grammar testing in the IELTS A1 or B1 tests.

[maoro2013]

We are in a different situation. We have not immigrated but are mostly on a year long visa with 90 day reporting, and even more it sounds like if you change residemce for more tha 24 hours.

[mike324]

As this case shows, in some countries it is difficult, and sometimes simply not feasible, for applicants to get to a test centre. All the approved ones in Thailand are in Bangkok.

Some countries don't have approved test centres at all! So applicants there have to travel to a neighbouring country to take the test.

So, whilst I have no objection at all to the principle of family migrants having to pass an English test, I feel a fairer, and more practicable, system would be to allow them to take it once in the UK; especially for applicants from countries where taking the test is impracticable or even impossible. They need a pass for their FLR application anyway, so they wouldn't be able to avoid doing so.

Plus, of course, they need a higher grade pass plus the LitUK test to apply for ILR.

A note to those EEA bashers; if the UK insisted on migrants from other EEA countries learning English, then this would become an EEA wide requirement. How many of the approximately 2 million British citizens currently exercising an economic treaty right in another EEA country can speak the local language?

If they really want to, they could have the test be taken at the embassy, given that the applicant pay all the fees and are pre approved as well. Applicants know they need to learn the language before taking the test or else they would have wasted their money.

I know some embassy's like Israel even allows their citizens to even take college exams (online master programs) at the embassy, but that is probably because they are not as busy as other countries to be able to allow that type of stuff.

[VINCENT2012]

excelent...decision!

in uk english...

in france ..french

in germany ...german

and so on....it is incredible as thai woman can't learn any language even living with a foreigner in his own country...i have seen many example allready here....australian , english american etc etc ..!

in our rich countries we have more than enough ...immigration .....who do not integrate themself and use our taxes and laws to get only rights and a better life....and what does thailand for us in return...??????

just nothing ...here if you have money you can stay and if you dont ...even married or whatever ...you have to go.

so if i could decide i would aplicate the same laws as thailand aplicate to other citizens from others countries

eye for eye, teeth for teeth

and have a good day!

I had a different experience. I have met scores of Western immigrants in Thailand who could not say "hello" in Thai.

On the other hand, improbable as it may sound:

- A Thai lady in Sweden fluent in Swedish and English (15 years there, came with nothing, owns a small restaurant now, plans to go back home in 5 years)

- A Thai lady in Austria - fluent in German, server at an airport business lounge

- A Thai family in Germany - owners of (yes!) a street food stall - fluent in German and some English

Maybe those partners of foreigners in Thailand just have a small hope that their husbands will make an effort to learn Thai?

year man.. ..take my hand and start count the fingers. ..we are not talking about exeption.

anyway do you speak fluently thai ? ...because i do... plus german , plus italian, plus spanish, plus french and as you can see also some english too....come on man ....1st if you want to immigrate, and integrate yourself, you need to learn the local language....just don't limit yourself in paying for everything here in thailand like all most of farang do there...except me of course, cause i am not that kind of stupid!

[Mudcrab]

But French law cannot prevent a British person bringing their spouse to live in France! Daft perhaps but equal! The so called Surinder Singh route.

Only changes in EU law will change this or a decision to leave the EU. There will be many, many people avoiding national laws this way.

Doctors need to demonstrate a good standard of English. Not sure that the pharmacist does yet. Attempts are being made to change the rules so veterinary surgeons must meet English language requirements. Hopefully it will come to every job where lives are at stake!

Makes you wonder why they don't expect vets to talk dog, cat, turtle and horse.

[bobrussell]

I have to admit to having no detailed knowledge of the French visa system but one advice website states that;

"may have to prove that you have an ‘adequate’ knowledge of French (as deemed by the French authorities) or have taken a French language course."

[retarius]

Maybe Thailand should force all the expats who live here to learn Thai before allowing them to apply for visas

[brewsterbudgen]

Maybe Thailand should force all the expats who live here to learn Thai before allowing them to apply for visas

There is a requirement to speak Thai if you want to live here permanently. Most people here, however, are non-immigrants and only here for a year at a time.

[lormakmak]

people saying 'hope Thailand doesn't follow suit'

really??? when would any foreigner become a drain and strain on the Thai economy, be entitled to benefits or get free medical treatment?

granted people may be heading to the UK with good intentions but if situations change then what?

[bobrussell]

Looking at the TLS website it appears that a non-EU spouse of a French citizen does now need to undertake a test in the French language and values.

https://www.tlscontact.com/th2fr/docs.php

(Family member of a French citizen or his/her spouse/Spouse of French citizen/long stay (more than 90 days))

"New regulations require spouses of French citizens to undertake a test of French language and values when making a long-stay visa application.
Spouses of French citizens must make an appointment on the TLScontact website to submit their application, where they will then be invited to contact".

This is for a spouse wishing to remain for 90 days or longer.

I am happy to stand corrected but this strikes me as being quite clear!

[lungbing]

I hope Thailand doesn't follow suit.

I wouldn't mind, because it would then mean I get free health care, all the benefits I can claim and a state pension. Oh, sorry, that only applies to immigrant to the UK who can't speak English.

[mickyboy]

I hope Thailand doesn't follow suit.

Don't you need language skills for residency and to become a national in Thailand then?

yes to get a thai passport but not to just stay in the country but then again what benefite does thailand give to people on welfare

[beano2274]

Looking at the TLS website it appears that a non-EU spouse of a French citizen does now need to undertake a test in the French language and values.

https://www.tlscontact.com/th2fr/docs.php

(Family member of a French citizen or his/her spouse/Spouse of French citizen/long stay (more than 90 days))

"New regulations require spouses of French citizens to undertake a test of French language and values when making a long-stay visa application.

Spouses of French citizens must make an appointment on the TLScontact website to submit their application, where they will then be invited to contact".

This is for a spouse wishing to remain for 90 days or longer.

I am happy to stand corrected but this strikes me as being quite clear!

As i said in my previous post this has always been the case, that a EU national wishing to take his Thai wife to his country to reside, must ensure that his wife/partner has passed a course in the language of that country however, as others have said a way around this is to first go to a EU Country of which you are not a Citizen and then move after a period of time with your wife to your home country (Suringda Singh route).

Wives of German Citizens have to use the Goethe institute when memory serves me correct.

[laislica]

Looking at the TLS website it appears that a non-EU spouse of a French citizen does now need to undertake a test in the French language and values.

https://www.tlscontact.com/th2fr/docs.php

(Family member of a French citizen or his/her spouse/Spouse of French citizen/long stay (more than 90 days))

"New regulations require spouses of French citizens to undertake a test of French language and values when making a long-stay visa application.

Spouses of French citizens must make an appointment on the TLScontact website to submit their application, where they will then be invited to contact".

This is for a spouse wishing to remain for 90 days or longer.

I am happy to stand corrected but this strikes me as being quite clear!

As i said in my previous post this has always been the case, that a EU national wishing to take his Thai wife to his country to reside, must ensure that his wife/partner has passed a course in the language of that country however, as others have said a way around this is to first go to a EU Country of which you are not a Citizen and then move after a period of time with your wife to your home country (Suringda Singh route).

Wives of German Citizens have to use the Goethe institute when memory serves me correct.

Correct, however, in my case I have no intention of ever returning to the UK.

I live in Spain and am resident, as is my wife.

We both have Spanish NHS cover.

We "holiday" in Thailand for about 5 months and I use a retirement extension for that.

I tried to get a general visitor visa for my wife a couple of years ago but it was turned down - I really didn't understand that we needed to give compelling reasons that she would not overstay....

I foolishly thought that as a UK citizen, I had a right to visit my country of birth with my wife - what a mistake to make he he

We had planned to visit for a couple of weeks to visit family and friends and there was no short term tourist visa available.

Just the 6 months job.

Happily Spain did not require that my wife speaks Spanish and, once the initial hurdles were completed (which took about 6 months), the paperwork side of things is very simple and more or less free from now on.

As mentioned in my previous post (#38), I have the Spanish language skill and my wife the Thai skills so life is fine in both countries and we can relax and enjoy our retirement.

Being 20 years older than my wife, I expect to pass on before her and our plan is that she will sell everything in Spain and return to Thailand to see out her days there alongside children and family.

[beano2274]

@Laslica - took me one week to get everything sorted for my wife, she arrived on the Sunday, on Tuesday registered her in Munich (Buergerburo), then on the Wednesday to the KVR (Auslanderamt, office for Foreigners), and applied for her Residence Card, all details taken and was sent 2 weeks later. German health Insurance done in the same week.

A lot faster than the UK I think as well...

[bobrussell]

I was responding to a post that suggested that France did not have a language requirement. They do if the EU spouse is French.

I suspect it will become the norm for many people to take advantage of package deals offered by some of the more dodgy immigration advisors in the UK. Travel, stay and carry out some form of 'work' and wait to qualify under Surinder Singh. It seems quite widespread in some communities!

No NHS supplement, no language requirements, no FLR and quite possibly quicker and cheaper as well.

I have been shocked at how obstructive UKVI staff can be when a perfectly proper application is being made!

[laislica]

@Laslica - took me one week to get everything sorted for my wife, she arrived on the Sunday, on Tuesday registered her in Munich (Buergerburo), then on the Wednesday to the KVR (Auslanderamt, office for Foreigners), and applied for her Residence Card, all details taken and was sent 2 weeks later. German health Insurance done in the same week.

A lot faster than the UK I think as well...

Great and good for you.

Are you German?

Are you "settling" in Germany with your wife?

To be clear,I am a Brit retired to Spain.

I was registered as resident in 2004.

My wife registered in 2013 and her ID card has my details on the reverse side.