Yingluck gets invitation to visit from EU Parliament

[jayboy]

But why - ignoring your boorish sexist language - do you believe the EU should not wish to have a dialogue with the last truly legitimate Prime Minister? Presumably the EU also wants to send a message to the Junta.Politics are often symbolic anyway.

You may not be an admirer and that is your right, but your peremptory dismissal of what she stands for is in effect a dismissal of the Thai People's judgement.Despite your denials it is rather clear which camp you and your "binary choice" reside in.

I just posted a (link to) meeting report on Thailand, from the European Parliament. Read it, no mention on Ms. Yingluck, but still interesting.

BTW why would the European Parliament President invite the Thaksin clone? Do you think the European Parliament President is blinded by "democracy == elections" to the point of ignoring the influence of a criminal fugitive and his vote buying RPPS scam ?

Personally I would expect the President of the EP to be a bit pragmatic although also in Europe 'das Kapital' still controls decisions.

But Rubl, why would they be blinded, Yingluck did win those elections with an absolute landslide. No ifs or buts are in order, the Thai electorate delivered a very clear message in those elections. Europeans tend to listen and respect such message, unlike the likes of you, who would immediately turn to vote buying policies, an uneducated electorate and more silly excuses.

What do you suggest in return, they inivite some of the NCPO people. People who have taken power by gunpoint, abolished the constitution, replacing it with one that gives them absolute power.

People who send people that criticise them to re-adjustment camps, who curtailed freedom of press and freedom of speach ?

Or who claim to return Thailand to democracy and yet have suggested provisions into the new constitution that would make it a democracy in name only ?

But Sjaak, with all statements by various people including Thaksin, Pheu Thai members, etc., it should be clear to even MPs from the EP that the election had nothing to do with democracy as 'we' know it. 'the Thai electorate' ? You mean the 15m who voted Pheu Thai? With Pheu Thai having said to have paid out 800 billion Baht directly to rice farmers, all 1.4m households participating (out of 3.2m aimed at). Those 3.2m households represented 23% of the population, no figures on what the 1.4m represent. Looks like a classical vote buying exercise with taxpayers being duped.

The EP may want to ask Ms. Yingluck about responsability and accountability plus a bit of transparancy, administration, commissions looking into things. All those elements we accept as part of a democratic system. Well, some of us only I guess.

As for your question who they might invite in return, maybe a few academics respected by both sides and one or two others from 'each side'. On the other hand the meeting report I provided a link to suggest that Thailand hasn't been a democracy for a long time already. Some points raised from decades ago.

As for constitution, interesting that a more 'proportional representation' is rejected by posters here as well as the ability to elect a non-MP as PM in case of parties not being able to agree on one. Even Greece had a judge appointed as PM a few months ago.

The apologists for repression become ever more desperate.

This one trollishly maintains

1.Contrary to all informed opinion the last election in Thailand had nothing to do with democracy.There is no other way to describe this a massive lie.

2.Those Thais who voted for PTP were bribed with populist policies, effectively vote buying.

3.Invoked the irrelevant Greek precedent ( an interim measure for a few weeks) of a non elected PM.No democracy of course would accept this measure in a constitution.

At one time this member used to provide a sensible alternative view.One can only surmise that the emergence of the worst and least legitimate government in living memory has unhinged him.

[Bakseeda]

Huh.... lets look at this... Why Oh why would stupid Europeans invite the puppet girl to Europe when they know she is on a serious criminal charge here in Thailand... Makes me ashamed to be European... Thank God I am Scottish.

[sjaak327]

Hmm another <deleted> post. 299 MP's (out of 500) put Yingluck into PM. And those 299 in turn were elected by the Thai electorate either via party list or via constituency. Yingluck's party having 265 of those seats after a landslide election victory.

The original poster is therefore 100% correct your failed deflection notwithstanding...

And who do you think insisted the 299 must vote for Yinluck, or did you just arrive on the scene?

She did run a campaign. The people voting for PT MP's or party list knew full well who was going to be PM. The other 50 were part of the coalition government that was formed.

I arrived on the scene decades ago, which is why lies spread by the likes of you don't work. I am quite surprised you even utter them, so unbelievable stupid.

It also displays a complete lack of understanding as to how exactly the Thai electoral system actually works.

[Baerboxer]

I do not believe in the authenticity of this 'invitation'. It's a hoax/joke.

Are junta apologists trying to outdo each other for the most facetious face saving excuse for the junta? Waiting someone to claim it was a plot and politically motivated to cause unrest.

IF you'd read any of my posts you would have noted I am by no means whatsoever a bloody junta apologist! But I AM capable of critical thinking and do not believe the EU would go out of it's way to invite Barbie to tea and political discourse on the situation in Thailand, after all, she was barely aware of it when standing in for her 'brother' during her questionable tenure.

Some of us have minds capable of more than binary choices you know. Eric.

But why - ignoring your boorish sexist language - do you believe the EU should not wish to have a dialogue with the last truly legitimate Prime Minister? Presumably the EU also wants to send a message to the Junta.Politics are often symbolic anyway.

You may not be an admirer and that is your right, but your peremptory dismissal of what she stands for is in effect a dismissal of the Thai People's judgement.Despite your denials it is rather clear which camp you and your "binary choice" reside in.

She was the last legitimate Thai PM. She was also the last Thai PM removed by a court for an abuse of power.

Of course, there are politicians in Europe, and at the European parliament too who think an elected politician can do as they please, are above reproach and certainly not accountable to the contemptuous citizens who elect them. They are their to govern not represent.

I really don't think any foreign embassy or even the low key high cost EU bureaucrats in Thailand really believed she was the real PM/DM. Her actions, never attending parliament, never attending meetings she was supposed to chair, constant traveling and acting as some sort of hybrid FM - all designed to keep her away from questions, debates, and accountability.

You may be an admirer, or not. but do you really believe Yingluck was the political leader of PTP, it's government and made decisions? Or do you think she simply did as her brother told her?

[Baerboxer]

Huh.... lets look at this... Why Oh why would stupid Europeans invite the puppet girl to Europe when they know she is on a serious criminal charge here in Thailand... Makes me ashamed to be European... Thank God I am Scottish.

Google the two guys who invited her. Long time old German career politicians and federalists. The want a EU run by German bureaucrats with a joke elected EU parliament and neutered sovereign parliaments.

At a time when many EU citizens are calling for decentralization and devolution, these old farts want more centralization, more EU control, less accountability and to do as much as possible to take the focus off their CDU leader's migrant balls up.

Maybe they think they can learn something through Yingluck of Thaksin's use of lobbyists and PR - after all, CNN let him say he has never done anything wrong, never ever without challenge. Maybe Merkel wants to employ Amsterdam to gloss over her and CDU's image.

The only thing for sure is these self important wanna rule Europe berks will waste taxpayer's money. After all, plenty more where that came from.

[Baerboxer]

The European Commission has an office in Thailand and so do all embassies of EU countries. They have direct access to all information need with or without YS going to Europe.

Yes, but there is an important point about democracy which would be good to be made in public.

Putting this in a EU context.

We have 2 German veteran MEP CDU career politicians suddenly inviting YL to the EU parliament. One is 69 year old (and people comment about Thai dinosaurs in politics!) and is also chair of the EU Federalists. Like Merkel, who also happens to be CDU, a committed Federalist who wants the EU parliament to rule Europe.

Each sovereign EU member country has its own government, foreign office and embassies. The EU Commission has an office in Thailand (again "managed" by a German national). Presumably all these provide information to their respective foreign offices back home?

Question in the EU should be:

what has instigated this letter? Have lobbyists been involved? If so, who and why?

are these CDU MEP's speaking with their committees' endorsement or as individuals?

Once again it looks like a waste of EU taxpayers, of which I'm one, money. It is yet another example of the federalists, especially the German CDU, trying to push for a EU foreign ministry and speak on behalf of all Europe. The EU foreign policy head is an Italian lady. Why not send her here? She can see first hand then and get a balanced view. YL is hardly likely to be balanced, but will gripe on about how unfair it all is to her, her family and her big brother, Thaksin the Innocent,

The Germans tried twice by force to rule Europe and failed. Now they try to bring about political "anschluss" with a fully federal Europe with Germany firmly in control.

Should this trip go ahead, will YL be asked to comment on and explain:

her lies as a PM/DM?

her lack of attendance to parliament, committee meetings?

her liaisons with her criminal brother?

her lack of transparency?

I doubt it. Because a lack of transparency, accountability and putting themselves above the law is something EU federalists crave. Maybe it advice on that they want to ask her and especially her brother about.

Democracy, especially the bit about accountability to the people, is dying in the EU. The EU parliament is a joke. The EU is run by bureaucrats and appointed has been politicians a la Kinnock etc.

No wonder the nationalists and anti-EU federalists are gaining more support.

you are really sick in your head!

The Germans tried twice by force to rule Europe and failed. Now they try to bring about political "anschluss" with a fully federal Europe with Germany firmly in control.

What has this to do with Y invitation.

I suppose you are one of those useless Poms nobody wants to see in EU

A know nothing but that doesn't stop me mouthing off Aussie. Good day.

Let me help you understand. The invitation came from the EU, but specifically two CDU MEP's who are federalists. Mrs. Merkel, the leader of Germany and the CDU are rampant federalists i.e the want to see much more central EU control and surprise surprise see Germany dominating and managing this.

Twice before, German regimes, based on German ideologies wanted to dominate Europe, but in overtly more aggressive and dominant way. Didn't work out too well.

It must be difficult for you to understand what is happening in Europe, the mess with migrants, the old guard federalists pushing for more central control and less democracy vs the devolution supporters who want more local accountability with local democracy and then relate that to previous European eras and events.

Now run off and play with skippy there's a good lad.

[EnglishJohn]

Quite. Thaksin bribing the entire leadership of the European Union is entirely, entirely a credible notion, just as credible as his inventing the EU in the first place to back him up should his plan for the domination of the galaxy fail - why else would the Europeans need a space programme after all?

Your trying to ridicule my post does not make it unlikely

Agreed. My ridiculing your post does not make it unlikely. It just is anyway. Try spending some time far away from Thailand and all things Thai for a while and you would realise just how risable such (unfounded) theories sound.

This is what happens when you spend too long in a monoculture...

I do enjoy reading post by people who think they are a lot more intelligent than they really are and embarrass themselves repeatedly by posting paper-thin rhetoric. That alone is a very strong indicator of stupidity. Even better when they attempt to be witty and come out with some nonsensical garbage.

You bribe entire governments with things like lucrative trade deals where they will get an untold number of secondary benefits which will be untraceable as corruption. Thaksin tried to railroad one through with the USA just before he got found out and ran away. All of these trade deals need middle men, advisory consultants, shipping agents and dozens of other things - all taking a cut of the enormous sums involved. Politicians with legitimate sidelines such as several part time directorships on the boards of companies, or business interests which will benefit just love that kind of thing.

It's only in Thailand where gullible cattle will vote for dirty scumbags that pastry boxes might work.

[metisdead]

Inflammatory off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[sawadee1947]

German regimes, based on German ideologies

if it is what the majority wants in Europe...? Who not?

[sawadee1947]

German regimes, based on German ideologies

if it is what the majority wants in Europe...? Who not?

mistake, sorry

German regimes, based on German ideologies

if it is what the majority wants in Europe...? Why not?

[sawadee1947]

Huh.... lets look at this... Why Oh why would stupid Europeans invite the puppet girl to Europe when they know she is on a serious criminal charge here in Thailand... Makes me ashamed to be European... Thank God I am Scottish.

yeah laddie, and I'm very proud to see a majority in Scotland voting for EU. How intelligent Scottish can be?

[steven100]

good ....... she can go there as a refugee and claim persecution

[rubl]

To conclude:

The Chairman of the EP commission on foreign Affairs has requested the urgent availability of Ms. Yingluck to lecture on Democracy as she knows it and how it died in Thailand on the day she was asked to show responsibility and accountability.

Oh, my fault, they invited Ms. Yingluck to drop by any time she's in the neighbourhood shopping. I guess the commission will drop anything they've at hand to listen at the truth as she wants it to be known. Also tips on mushroom growing will be appreciated, especially in a 'green, ecologically friendly' manner.

[rubl]

But Sjaak, with all statements by various people including Thaksin, Pheu Thai members, etc., it should be clear to even MPs from the EP that the election had nothing to do with democracy as 'we' know it. 'the Thai electorate' ? You mean the 15m who voted Pheu Thai? With Pheu Thai having said to have paid out 800 billion Baht directly to rice farmers, all 1.4m households participating (out of 3.2m aimed at). Those 3.2m households represented 23% of the population, no figures on what the 1.4m represent. Looks like a classical vote buying exercise with taxpayers being duped.

The EP may want to ask Ms. Yingluck about responsability and accountability plus a bit of transparancy, administration, commissions looking into things. All those elements we accept as part of a democratic system. Well, some of us only I guess.

As for your question who they might invite in return, maybe a few academics respected by both sides and one or two others from 'each side'. On the other hand the meeting report I provided a link to suggest that Thailand hasn't been a democracy for a long time already. Some points raised from decades ago.

As for constitution, interesting that a more 'proportional representation' is rejected by posters here as well as the ability to elect a non-MP as PM in case of parties not being able to agree on one. Even Greece had a judge appointed as PM a few months ago.

The apologists for repression become ever more desperate.

This one trollishly maintains

1.Contrary to all informed opinion the last election in Thailand had nothing to do with democracy.There is no other way to describe this a massive lie.

2.Those Thais who voted for PTP were bribed with populist policies, effectively vote buying.

3.Invoked the irrelevant Greek precedent ( an interim measure for a few weeks) of a non elected PM.No democracy of course would accept this measure in a constitution.

At one time this member used to provide a sensible alternative view.One can only surmise that the emergence of the worst and least legitimate government in living memory has unhinged him.

It is my personal opinion that an election with a criminal fugitive controlling a political party and promises Heaven on Earth can hardly be called a exercise in democracy. In real democracies such clear twisting and deforming democratic rules for own gain would be impossible. The Berlusconi case has led to minor adjustments, call it his major contribution.

The Pheu Thai party stated to have aimed at 3.2m rice farming families representing 23% of the Thai population and having paid out 800 billion Baht directly to farmers.

To lazy to search I only present a relevant example of a democratic country where the constitution allows for an appointed PM under certain circumstances.

Of course, I'm aware all this goes against what others (profess to) believe. That's the reason I'm being frequently insulted, denigrated, called a troll, etc., etc. To intellectually discuss and counter my argumentation seems beyond some posters who think that attacking a poster is easier and somehow erodes value of his posts. Well, think again, or should I say 'start thinking' ?

Edited November 25, 2015 by rubl

[metisdead]

Some more inflammatory posts have been removed.

[jayboy]

But Sjaak, with all statements by various people including Thaksin, Pheu Thai members, etc., it should be clear to even MPs from the EP that the election had nothing to do with democracy as 'we' know it. 'the Thai electorate' ? You mean the 15m who voted Pheu Thai? With Pheu Thai having said to have paid out 800 billion Baht directly to rice farmers, all 1.4m households participating (out of 3.2m aimed at). Those 3.2m households represented 23% of the population, no figures on what the 1.4m represent. Looks like a classical vote buying exercise with taxpayers being duped.

The EP may want to ask Ms. Yingluck about responsability and accountability plus a bit of transparancy, administration, commissions looking into things. All those elements we accept as part of a democratic system. Well, some of us only I guess.

As for your question who they might invite in return, maybe a few academics respected by both sides and one or two others from 'each side'. On the other hand the meeting report I provided a link to suggest that Thailand hasn't been a democracy for a long time already. Some points raised from decades ago.

As for constitution, interesting that a more 'proportional representation' is rejected by posters here as well as the ability to elect a non-MP as PM in case of parties not being able to agree on one. Even Greece had a judge appointed as PM a few months ago.

The apologists for repression become ever more desperate.

This one trollishly maintains

1.Contrary to all informed opinion the last election in Thailand had nothing to do with democracy.There is no other way to describe this a massive lie.

2.Those Thais who voted for PTP were bribed with populist policies, effectively vote buying.

3.Invoked the irrelevant Greek precedent ( an interim measure for a few weeks) of a non elected PM.No democracy of course would accept this measure in a constitution.

At one time this member used to provide a sensible alternative view.One can only surmise that the emergence of the worst and least legitimate government in living memory has unhinged him.

It is my personal opinion that an election with a criminal fugitive controlling a political party and promises Heaven on Earth can hardly be called a exercise in democracy. In real democracies such clear twisting and deforming democratic rules for own gain would be impossible. The Berlusconi case has led to minor adjustments, call it his major contribution.

The Pheu Thai party stated to have aimed at 3.2m rice farming families representing 23% of the Thai population and having paid out 800 billion Baht directly to farmers.

To lazy to search I only present a relevant example of a democratic country where the constitution allows for an appointed PM under certain circumstances.

Of course, I'm aware all this goes against what others (profess to) believe. That's the reason I'm being frequently insulted, denigrated, called a troll, etc., etc. To intellectually discuss and counter my argumentation seems beyond some posters who think that attacking a poster is easier and somehow erodes value of his posts. Well, think again, or should I say 'start thinking' ?

And do you ever for a moment consider that you are profoundly wrong.Holding a belief sincerely even religiously does not make it right.

Your Greek example was irrelevant.Even the Greeks insist that any substantive PM must be elected not appointed by a group of "good people".

Nobody sensible has ever suggested Thai Democracy is anything other than work in progress.

PTP could never have won without substantial support outside its core areas.There can be no democratic argument against PTP helping the most disadvantaged.The argument is about implementation and corruption, not the concept.You seem very muddled about the distinction.

Thaksin is a deeply flawed character but nonetheless he and parties associated with him had a legitimate democratic mandate.The current government has none.

All governments and political parties lose momentum after years in power.The Democrats could have reformed themselves and obtained electoral support to win office.They took the other way and compromised with the forces of repression - leading to the worst government for decades.No rational person could claim otherwise.

Don't take refuge in the fantasy you represent some lonely beacon of integrity.You once had a sparky integrity.Politeness prevents me elaborating on the deterioration.Is it to much to hope that without abandoning your principles you reach down for some courage and integrity and say, "yes, I got some things terribly wrong"?

[Thai at Heart]

But why - ignoring your boorish sexist language - do you believe the EU should not wish to have a dialogue with the last truly legitimate Prime Minister? Presumably the EU also wants to send a message to the Junta.Politics are often symbolic anyway.

You may not be an admirer and that is your right, but your peremptory dismissal of what she stands for is in effect a dismissal of the Thai People's judgement.Despite your denials it is rather clear which camp you and your "binary choice" reside in.

I just posted a (link to) meeting report on Thailand, from the European Parliament. Read it, no mention on Ms. Yingluck, but still interesting.

BTW why would the European Parliament President invite the Thaksin clone? Do you think the European Parliament President is blinded by "democracy == elections" to the point of ignoring the influence of a criminal fugitive and his vote buying RPPS scam ?

Personally I would expect the President of the EP to be a bit pragmatic although also in Europe 'das Kapital' still controls decisions.

But Rubl, why would they be blinded, Yingluck did win those elections with an absolute landslide. No ifs or buts are in order, the Thai electorate delivered a very clear message in those elections. Europeans tend to listen and respect such message, unlike the likes of you, who would immediately turn to vote buying policies, an uneducated electorate and more silly excuses.

What do you suggest in return, they inivite some of the NCPO people. People who have taken power by gunpoint, abolished the constitution, replacing it with one that gives them absolute power.

People who send people that criticise them to re-adjustment camps, who curtailed freedom of press and freedom of speach ?

Or who claim to return Thailand to democracy and yet have suggested provisions into the new constitution that would make it a democracy in name only ?

But Sjaak, with all statements by various people including Thaksin, Pheu Thai members, etc., it should be clear to even MPs from the EP that the election had nothing to do with democracy as 'we' know it. 'the Thai electorate' ? You mean the 15m who voted Pheu Thai? With Pheu Thai having said to have paid out 800 billion Baht directly to rice farmers, all 1.4m households participating (out of 3.2m aimed at). Those 3.2m households represented 23% of the population, no figures on what the 1.4m represent. Looks like a classical vote buying exercise with taxpayers being duped.

The EP may want to ask Ms. Yingluck about responsability and accountability plus a bit of transparancy, administration, commissions looking into things. All those elements we accept as part of a democratic system. Well, some of us only I guess.


As for your question who they might invite in return, maybe a few academics respected by both sides and one or two others from 'each side'. On the other hand the meeting report I provided a link to suggest that Thailand hasn't been a democracy for a long time already. Some points raised from decades ago.

As for constitution, interesting that a more 'proportional representation' is rejected by posters here as well as the ability to elect a non-MP as PM in case of parties not being able to agree on one. Even Greece had a judge appointed as PM a few months ago.

The apologists for repression become ever more desperate.

This one trollishly maintains

1.Contrary to all informed opinion the last election in Thailand had nothing to do with democracy.There is no other way to describe this a massive lie.

2.Those Thais who voted for PTP were bribed with populist policies, effectively vote buying.

3.Invoked the irrelevant Greek precedent ( an interim measure for a few weeks) of a non elected PM.No democracy of course would accept this measure in a constitution.

At one time this member used to provide a sensible alternative view.One can only surmise that the emergence of the worst and least legitimate government in living memory has unhinged him.

You can't go around calling any policy that puts money in the pockets of the majority as vote buying.

That is a blatantly misleading statement and doesn't hold up against any scrutiny anywhere in the world.

Political parties offer their supporters financial benefits to vote for them in the way of taxes or benefits all over the world.

It isnt vote buying, it is electioneering and like it or not, legal

[EnglishJohn]

Latest news is that it is a just personal invitation from the two men and nothing to do with the EU Parliament.

Given those circumstances and the high rhetoric content of the letter, they were clearly put up to it.

[EnglishJohn]

But why - ignoring your boorish sexist language - do you believe the EU should not wish to have a dialogue with the last truly legitimate Prime Minister? Presumably the EU also wants to send a message to the Junta.Politics are often symbolic anyway.

You may not be an admirer and that is your right, but your peremptory dismissal of what she stands for is in effect a dismissal of the Thai People's judgement.Despite your denials it is rather clear which camp you and your "binary choice" reside in.

I just posted a (link to) meeting report on Thailand, from the European Parliament. Read it, no mention on Ms. Yingluck, but still interesting.

BTW why would the European Parliament President invite the Thaksin clone? Do you think the European Parliament President is blinded by "democracy == elections" to the point of ignoring the influence of a criminal fugitive and his vote buying RPPS scam ?

Personally I would expect the President of the EP to be a bit pragmatic although also in Europe 'das Kapital' still controls decisions.

But Rubl, why would they be blinded, Yingluck did win those elections with an absolute landslide. No ifs or buts are in order, the Thai electorate delivered a very clear message in those elections. Europeans tend to listen and respect such message, unlike the likes of you, who would immediately turn to vote buying policies, an uneducated electorate and more silly excuses.

What do you suggest in return, they inivite some of the NCPO people. People who have taken power by gunpoint, abolished the constitution, replacing it with one that gives them absolute power.

People who send people that criticise them to re-adjustment camps, who curtailed freedom of press and freedom of speach ?

Or who claim to return Thailand to democracy and yet have suggested provisions into the new constitution that would make it a democracy in name only ?

But Sjaak, with all statements by various people including Thaksin, Pheu Thai members, etc., it should be clear to even MPs from the EP that the election had nothing to do with democracy as 'we' know it. 'the Thai electorate' ? You mean the 15m who voted Pheu Thai? With Pheu Thai having said to have paid out 800 billion Baht directly to rice farmers, all 1.4m households participating (out of 3.2m aimed at). Those 3.2m households represented 23% of the population, no figures on what the 1.4m represent. Looks like a classical vote buying exercise with taxpayers being duped.

The EP may want to ask Ms. Yingluck about responsability and accountability plus a bit of transparancy, administration, commissions looking into things. All those elements we accept as part of a democratic system. Well, some of us only I guess.

As for your question who they might invite in return, maybe a few academics respected by both sides and one or two others from 'each side'. On the other hand the meeting report I provided a link to suggest that Thailand hasn't been a democracy for a long time already. Some points raised from decades ago.

As for constitution, interesting that a more 'proportional representation' is rejected by posters here as well as the ability to elect a non-MP as PM in case of parties not being able to agree on one. Even Greece had a judge appointed as PM a few months ago.

The apologists for repression become ever more desperate.

This one trollishly maintains

1.Contrary to all informed opinion the last election in Thailand had nothing to do with democracy.There is no other way to describe this a massive lie.

2.Those Thais who voted for PTP were bribed with populist policies, effectively vote buying.

3.Invoked the irrelevant Greek precedent ( an interim measure for a few weeks) of a non elected PM.No democracy of course would accept this measure in a constitution.

At one time this member used to provide a sensible alternative view.One can only surmise that the emergence of the worst and least legitimate government in living memory has unhinged him.

You can't go around calling any policy that puts money in the pockets of the majority as vote buying.

That is a blatantly misleading statement and doesn't hold up against any scrutiny anywhere in the world.

Political parties offer their supporters financial benefits to vote for them in the way of taxes or benefits all over the world.

It isnt vote buying, it is electioneering and like it or not, legal

Thank you for your contribution.

"You can't go around calling any policy that puts money in the pockets of the majority as vote buying."

Errr ... that's exactly what it is. Unsustainable populist policies. Buying votes by promising more money than you have to give. Dishonest.

As a side note : we will take you more seriously if you don't write your comments like a North Korean press release.

[Thai at Heart]

But why - ignoring your boorish sexist language - do you believe the EU should not wish to have a dialogue with the last truly legitimate Prime Minister? Presumably the EU also wants to send a message to the Junta.Politics are often symbolic anyway.

You may not be an admirer and that is your right, but your peremptory dismissal of what she stands for is in effect a dismissal of the Thai People's judgement.Despite your denials it is rather clear which camp you and your "binary choice" reside in.

I just posted a (link to) meeting report on Thailand, from the European Parliament. Read it, no mention on Ms. Yingluck, but still interesting.

BTW why would the European Parliament President invite the Thaksin clone? Do you think the European Parliament President is blinded by "democracy == elections" to the point of ignoring the influence of a criminal fugitive and his vote buying RPPS scam ?

Personally I would expect the President of the EP to be a bit pragmatic although also in Europe 'das Kapital' still controls decisions.

But Rubl, why would they be blinded, Yingluck did win those elections with an absolute landslide. No ifs or buts are in order, the Thai electorate delivered a very clear message in those elections. Europeans tend to listen and respect such message, unlike the likes of you, who would immediately turn to vote buying policies, an uneducated electorate and more silly excuses.

What do you suggest in return, they inivite some of the NCPO people. People who have taken power by gunpoint, abolished the constitution, replacing it with one that gives them absolute power.

People who send people that criticise them to re-adjustment camps, who curtailed freedom of press and freedom of speach ?

Or who claim to return Thailand to democracy and yet have suggested provisions into the new constitution that would make it a democracy in name only ?

But Sjaak, with all statements by various people including Thaksin, Pheu Thai members, etc., it should be clear to even MPs from the EP that the election had nothing to do with democracy as 'we' know it. 'the Thai electorate' ? You mean the 15m who voted Pheu Thai? With Pheu Thai having said to have paid out 800 billion Baht directly to rice farmers, all 1.4m households participating (out of 3.2m aimed at). Those 3.2m households represented 23% of the population, no figures on what the 1.4m represent. Looks like a classical vote buying exercise with taxpayers being duped.

The EP may want to ask Ms. Yingluck about responsability and accountability plus a bit of transparancy, administration, commissions looking into things. All those elements we accept as part of a democratic system. Well, some of us only I guess.


As for your question who they might invite in return, maybe a few academics respected by both sides and one or two others from 'each side'. On the other hand the meeting report I provided a link to suggest that Thailand hasn't been a democracy for a long time already. Some points raised from decades ago.

As for constitution, interesting that a more 'proportional representation' is rejected by posters here as well as the ability to elect a non-MP as PM in case of parties not being able to agree on one. Even Greece had a judge appointed as PM a few months ago.

The apologists for repression become ever more desperate.

This one trollishly maintains

1.Contrary to all informed opinion the last election in Thailand had nothing to do with democracy.There is no other way to describe this a massive lie.

2.Those Thais who voted for PTP were bribed with populist policies, effectively vote buying.

3.Invoked the irrelevant Greek precedent ( an interim measure for a few weeks) of a non elected PM.No democracy of course would accept this measure in a constitution.

At one time this member used to provide a sensible alternative view.One can only surmise that the emergence of the worst and least legitimate government in living memory has unhinged him.

You can't go around calling any policy that puts money in the pockets of the majority as vote buying.

That is a blatantly misleading statement and doesn't hold up against any scrutiny anywhere in the world.

Political parties offer their supporters financial benefits to vote for them in the way of taxes or benefits all over the world.

It isnt vote buying, it is electioneering and like it or not, legal

Thank you for your contribution.


"You can't go around calling any policy that puts money in the pockets of the majority as vote buying."

Errr ... that's exactly what it is. Unsustainable populist policies. Buying votes by promising more money than you have to give. Dishonest.


As a side note : we will take you more seriously if you don't write your comments like a North Korean press release.

Define more than u have to give?

The finances of the country were fine when PTP got in and they were fine when they left. Every economy in the world virtually is running a deficit. They are all borrowing today to sustain growth and wait for better times. Your definition doesn't fit that of vote buying or populism.

It is up to the electorate to decide who they want to govern on the back of the stated policies

Populism as a definition is not about affordability. It is about who it is applies to, I. E. the majority. It is not a bad policy to provide systems to benefit the majority.

It is not vote buying when a politician offers a policy to suit me or you. The outcome may well be that they win the election, it is down to me the elector to judge whether the policy was affordable to the country at the next election.

[Toknarok]

Latest news is that it is a just personal invitation from the two men and nothing to do with the EU Parliament.

Given those circumstances and the high rhetoric content of the letter, they were clearly put up to it.

Links please John. Don't make unsubstantiated statements as you are prone to do. Thanks.

[jayboy]

But why - ignoring your boorish sexist language - do you believe the EU should not wish to have a dialogue with the last truly legitimate Prime Minister? Presumably the EU also wants to send a message to the Junta.Politics are often symbolic anyway.

You may not be an admirer and that is your right, but your peremptory dismissal of what she stands for is in effect a dismissal of the Thai People's judgement.Despite your denials it is rather clear which camp you and your "binary choice" reside in.

I just posted a (link to) meeting report on Thailand, from the European Parliament. Read it, no mention on Ms. Yingluck, but still interesting.

BTW why would the European Parliament President invite the Thaksin clone? Do you think the European Parliament President is blinded by "democracy == elections" to the point of ignoring the influence of a criminal fugitive and his vote buying RPPS scam ?

Personally I would expect the President of the EP to be a bit pragmatic although also in Europe 'das Kapital' still controls decisions.

But Rubl, why would they be blinded, Yingluck did win those elections with an absolute landslide. No ifs or buts are in order, the Thai electorate delivered a very clear message in those elections. Europeans tend to listen and respect such message, unlike the likes of you, who would immediately turn to vote buying policies, an uneducated electorate and more silly excuses.

What do you suggest in return, they inivite some of the NCPO people. People who have taken power by gunpoint, abolished the constitution, replacing it with one that gives them absolute power.

People who send people that criticise them to re-adjustment camps, who curtailed freedom of press and freedom of speach ?

Or who claim to return Thailand to democracy and yet have suggested provisions into the new constitution that would make it a democracy in name only ?

But Sjaak, with all statements by various people including Thaksin, Pheu Thai members, etc., it should be clear to even MPs from the EP that the election had nothing to do with democracy as 'we' know it. 'the Thai electorate' ? You mean the 15m who voted Pheu Thai? With Pheu Thai having said to have paid out 800 billion Baht directly to rice farmers, all 1.4m households participating (out of 3.2m aimed at). Those 3.2m households represented 23% of the population, no figures on what the 1.4m represent. Looks like a classical vote buying exercise with taxpayers being duped.

The EP may want to ask Ms. Yingluck about responsability and accountability plus a bit of transparancy, administration, commissions looking into things. All those elements we accept as part of a democratic system. Well, some of us only I guess.


As for your question who they might invite in return, maybe a few academics respected by both sides and one or two others from 'each side'. On the other hand the meeting report I provided a link to suggest that Thailand hasn't been a democracy for a long time already. Some points raised from decades ago.

As for constitution, interesting that a more 'proportional representation' is rejected by posters here as well as the ability to elect a non-MP as PM in case of parties not being able to agree on one. Even Greece had a judge appointed as PM a few months ago.

The apologists for repression become ever more desperate.

This one trollishly maintains

1.Contrary to all informed opinion the last election in Thailand had nothing to do with democracy.There is no other way to describe this a massive lie.

2.Those Thais who voted for PTP were bribed with populist policies, effectively vote buying.

3.Invoked the irrelevant Greek precedent ( an interim measure for a few weeks) of a non elected PM.No democracy of course would accept this measure in a constitution.

At one time this member used to provide a sensible alternative view.One can only surmise that the emergence of the worst and least legitimate government in living memory has unhinged him.

You can't go around calling any policy that puts money in the pockets of the majority as vote buying.

That is a blatantly misleading statement and doesn't hold up against any scrutiny anywhere in the world.

Political parties offer their supporters financial benefits to vote for them in the way of taxes or benefits all over the world.

It isnt vote buying, it is electioneering and like it or not, legal

Thank you for your contribution.


"You can't go around calling any policy that puts money in the pockets of the majority as vote buying."

Errr ... that's exactly what it is. Unsustainable populist policies. Buying votes by promising more money than you have to give. Dishonest.


As a side note : we will take you more seriously if you don't write your comments like a North Korean press release.

All parties in democracies campaign on the basis of policies they hope will appeal to the electorate.Western countries for example offer the electorate social benefits - and credible critics suggest that these programmes on such a titanic scale cannot be afforded.There is significant waste and excess in this spending but I do not think David Cameron is going to be asked to reimburse these costs personally.

There is nothing like this in Thailand but there is a massive bias in government spending towards urban areas.This is part of the reason why Thailand has one of the most unequal societies in the world.By your logic this urban bias is also populist vote buying except that it tends to work for the parties in hock to the unelected elites.

If a government is fiscally irresponsible whether in supporting the poor or wasting money on corrupt generals ridiculous procurement scams, it is possible in a democracy to kick the bums out and replace it with one more in line with popular feeling.But of course the people are never trusted in Thailand.

As to your North Korean squib my response, kindly meant, is don't try and play out of your league.

[Thai at Heart]

But why - ignoring your boorish sexist language - do you believe the EU should not wish to have a dialogue with the last truly legitimate Prime Minister? Presumably the EU also wants to send a message to the Junta.Politics are often symbolic anyway.

You may not be an admirer and that is your right, but your peremptory dismissal of what she stands for is in effect a dismissal of the Thai People's judgement.Despite your denials it is rather clear which camp you and your "binary choice" reside in.

I just posted a (link to) meeting report on Thailand, from the European Parliament. Read it, no mention on Ms. Yingluck, but still interesting.

BTW why would the European Parliament President invite the Thaksin clone? Do you think the European Parliament President is blinded by "democracy == elections" to the point of ignoring the influence of a criminal fugitive and his vote buying RPPS scam ?

Personally I would expect the President of the EP to be a bit pragmatic although also in Europe 'das Kapital' still controls decisions.

But Rubl, why would they be blinded, Yingluck did win those elections with an absolute landslide. No ifs or buts are in order, the Thai electorate delivered a very clear message in those elections. Europeans tend to listen and respect such message, unlike the likes of you, who would immediately turn to vote buying policies, an uneducated electorate and more silly excuses.

What do you suggest in return, they inivite some of the NCPO people. People who have taken power by gunpoint, abolished the constitution, replacing it with one that gives them absolute power.

People who send people that criticise them to re-adjustment camps, who curtailed freedom of press and freedom of speach ?

Or who claim to return Thailand to democracy and yet have suggested provisions into the new constitution that would make it a democracy in name only ?

But Sjaak, with all statements by various people including Thaksin, Pheu Thai members, etc., it should be clear to even MPs from the EP that the election had nothing to do with democracy as 'we' know it. 'the Thai electorate' ? You mean the 15m who voted Pheu Thai? With Pheu Thai having said to have paid out 800 billion Baht directly to rice farmers, all 1.4m households participating (out of 3.2m aimed at). Those 3.2m households represented 23% of the population, no figures on what the 1.4m represent. Looks like a classical vote buying exercise with taxpayers being duped.

The EP may want to ask Ms. Yingluck about responsability and accountability plus a bit of transparancy, administration, commissions looking into things. All those elements we accept as part of a democratic system. Well, some of us only I guess.


As for your question who they might invite in return, maybe a few academics respected by both sides and one or two others from 'each side'. On the other hand the meeting report I provided a link to suggest that Thailand hasn't been a democracy for a long time already. Some points raised from decades ago.

As for constitution, interesting that a more 'proportional representation' is rejected by posters here as well as the ability to elect a non-MP as PM in case of parties not being able to agree on one. Even Greece had a judge appointed as PM a few months ago.

The apologists for repression become ever more desperate.

This one trollishly maintains

1.Contrary to all informed opinion the last election in Thailand had nothing to do with democracy.There is no other way to describe this a massive lie.

2.Those Thais who voted for PTP were bribed with populist policies, effectively vote buying.

3.Invoked the irrelevant Greek precedent ( an interim measure for a few weeks) of a non elected PM.No democracy of course would accept this measure in a constitution.

At one time this member used to provide a sensible alternative view.One can only surmise that the emergence of the worst and least legitimate government in living memory has unhinged him.

You can't go around calling any policy that puts money in the pockets of the majority as vote buying.

That is a blatantly misleading statement and doesn't hold up against any scrutiny anywhere in the world.

Political parties offer their supporters financial benefits to vote for them in the way of taxes or benefits all over the world.

It isnt vote buying, it is electioneering and like it or not, legal

Thank you for your contribution.


"You can't go around calling any policy that puts money in the pockets of the majority as vote buying."

Errr ... that's exactly what it is. Unsustainable populist policies. Buying votes by promising more money than you have to give. Dishonest.


As a side note : we will take you more seriously if you don't write your comments like a North Korean press release.

All parties in democracies campaign on the basis of policies they hope will appeal to the electorate.Western countries for example offer the electorate social benefits - and credible critics suggest that these programmes on such a titanic scale cannot be afforded.There is significant waste and excess in this spending but I do not think David Cameron is going to be asked to reimburse these costs personally.

There is nothing like this in Thailand but there is a massive bias in government spending towards urban areas.This is part of the reason why Thailand has one of the most unequal societies in the world.By your logic this urban bias is also populist vote buying except that it tends to work for the parties in hock to the unelected elites.

If a government is fiscally irresponsible whether in supporting the poor or wasting money on corrupt generals ridiculous procurement scams, it is possible in a democracy to kick the bums out and replace it with one more in line with popular feeling.But of course the people are never trusted in Thailand.

As to your North Korean squib my response, kindly meant, is don't try and play out of your league.

The fault also lies with the media for their absolutely pitiful efforts over the years to analyse what actually goes on economically in Thailand.

Do you think most Thais know that 70% of all govt spending goes on in Bangkok? Do they know what is the debt to gdp of their nation? Do they ask the politicians to explain the real cost or benefit of their policies.


I say this because I distinctly remember a rather supposedly intelligent Thai man telling me that if the rice scheme kept going, Thailand would end up like Greece. He was quite shocked when I told him debt to gdp in Thailand was around 40 to 45% and that Greece was 130+%.

I even had to dig out a copy of the economist to show him, that actually Thailand was quite well off in terms of total debt.

He didn't like it at all that apparently Sondhi and his TV channel had been lying to him.

He liked it even less when I said, actually Thailand can afford more policies aimed at rural areas and development. But this is exactly the type of debate and discussion Thailand needs, not less.

It needs more light, more investigation, more clarity, more democracy, more education. And what is this junta bringing, less, less, less, and less. Bravo.

[Compo]

Huh.... lets look at this... Why Oh why would stupid Europeans invite the puppet girl to Europe when they know she is on a serious criminal charge here in Thailand... Makes me ashamed to be European... Thank God I am Scottish.

What is the serious criminal charge and is it being dealt with in a court of law ??

Have a "Blue Peter " pencil if you can answer correctly.

[Wilsonandson]

Huh.... lets look at this... Why Oh why would stupid Europeans invite the puppet girl to Europe when they know she is on a serious criminal charge here in Thailand... Makes me ashamed to be European... Thank God I am Scottish.

What is the serious criminal charge and is it being dealt with in a court of law ??

Have a "Blue Peter " pencil if you can answer correctly.

Losing Thailand millions of baht due to a poorly choosen rice pledging scheme. She was on watch and did nothing to stop Thailand's rice industry going bankrupt. Where is my pencil? Edited November 25, 2015 by Wilsonandson

[scorecard]

There may be another reason, dark time in Europe atm...

They might just have invited her to explain Thai Politics and Rice Scheame so they can have a laugh for a week

But yes, why her

Millions of people with a brain that are much more qualified than her to give an objective view on Thailand situation and not tell EU: "they stole my democracy"....

Must be some kind of check move or a big poker bluff

Millions are also not Elected Prime Minister toppled by a coup. Yes,it's Yingluck that the EU want and not Ahbisit or Chuan. Bet the EU has more brain to chose who they want to speak about democracy.

So you believe madam is the right person to discuss democracy with?

[sjaak327]

You can't go around calling any policy that puts money in the pockets of the majority as vote buying.

That is a blatantly misleading statement and doesn't hold up against any scrutiny anywhere in the world.

Political parties offer their supporters financial benefits to vote for them in the way of taxes or benefits all over the world.

It isnt vote buying, it is electioneering and like it or not, legal

Thank you for your contribution.

"You can't go around calling any policy that puts money in the pockets of the majority as vote buying."

Errr ... that's exactly what it is. Unsustainable populist policies. Buying votes by promising more money than you have to give. Dishonest.

As a side note : we will take you more seriously if you don't write your comments like a North Korean press release.

Name one (1) political party in the west that isn't guilty off what you describe ! It happens everywhere, why suddenly would it be such a major problem in Thailand, unless of course it is used to explain away why it wouldn't suddenly be democratic, as it certainly is, and the world over.

[IAMHERE]

If she can not leave the country, does that make her a prisoner ?

[JAG]

But why - ignoring your boorish sexist language - do you believe the EU should not wish to have a dialogue with the last truly legitimate Prime Minister? Presumably the EU also wants to send a message to the Junta.Politics are often symbolic anyway.

You may not be an admirer and that is your right, but your peremptory dismissal of what she stands for is in effect a dismissal of the Thai People's judgement.Despite your denials it is rather clear which camp you and your "binary choice" reside in.

I just posted a (link to) meeting report on Thailand, from the European Parliament. Read it, no mention on Ms. Yingluck, but still interesting.

BTW why would the European Parliament President invite the Thaksin clone? Do you think the European Parliament President is blinded by "democracy == elections" to the point of ignoring the influence of a criminal fugitive and his vote buying RPPS scam ?

Personally I would expect the President of the EP to be a bit pragmatic although also in Europe 'das Kapital' still controls decisions.

But Rubl, why would they be blinded, Yingluck did win those elections with an absolute landslide. No ifs or buts are in order, the Thai electorate delivered a very clear message in those elections. Europeans tend to listen and respect such message, unlike the likes of you, who would immediately turn to vote buying policies, an uneducated electorate and more silly excuses.

What do you suggest in return, they inivite some of the NCPO people. People who have taken power by gunpoint, abolished the constitution, replacing it with one that gives them absolute power.

People who send people that criticise them to re-adjustment camps, who curtailed freedom of press and freedom of speach ?

Or who claim to return Thailand to democracy and yet have suggested provisions into the new constitution that would make it a democracy in name only ?

But Sjaak, with all statements by various people including Thaksin, Pheu Thai members, etc., it should be clear to even MPs from the EP that the election had nothing to do with democracy as 'we' know it. 'the Thai electorate' ? You mean the 15m who voted Pheu Thai? With Pheu Thai having said to have paid out 800 billion Baht directly to rice farmers, all 1.4m households participating (out of 3.2m aimed at). Those 3.2m households represented 23% of the population, no figures on what the 1.4m represent. Looks like a classical vote buying exercise with taxpayers being duped.

The EP may want to ask Ms. Yingluck about responsability and accountability plus a bit of transparancy, administration, commissions looking into things. All those elements we accept as part of a democratic system. Well, some of us only I guess.


As for your question who they might invite in return, maybe a few academics respected by both sides and one or two others from 'each side'. On the other hand the meeting report I provided a link to suggest that Thailand hasn't been a democracy for a long time already. Some points raised from decades ago.

As for constitution, interesting that a more 'proportional representation' is rejected by posters here as well as the ability to elect a non-MP as PM in case of parties not being able to agree on one. Even Greece had a judge appointed as PM a few months ago.

The apologists for repression become ever more desperate.

This one trollishly maintains

1.Contrary to all informed opinion the last election in Thailand had nothing to do with democracy.There is no other way to describe this a massive lie.

2.Those Thais who voted for PTP were bribed with populist policies, effectively vote buying.

3.Invoked the irrelevant Greek precedent ( an interim measure for a few weeks) of a non elected PM.No democracy of course would accept this measure in a constitution.

At one time this member used to provide a sensible alternative view.One can only surmise that the emergence of the worst and least legitimate government in living memory has unhinged him.

Or perhaps our "genial kindly old Dutch Uncle's" true colours are emerging from behind the customary smokescreen?

[Si Thea01]

If she can not leave the country, does that make her a prisoner ?

No.