A First Post

[Thumchok]

Hi everyone , this is my first post on this board , so excuse me if I haven't done something correctly .

I am having some thoughts here at present that I am finding hard to find answers for , so am looking for some advice ( I would hope intelligent , but beggers can't be choosers )

Firstly , I have been living with a Thai girl from the Roi Et province for nearly 2 years . Before you ask , yes she was a bar girl .

I have had a monogomous relationship with her , and believe that she has reciprocated .

She takes very good care of me in everyway that I could think possible , and I take very good care of her . Going by some of the threads here , you could say that she is a little spoilt .

We live in Bangkok in a quite large apartment .

I have built a small house in the village and it was formally completed last new year . Her eldest daughter lives in it , and the parents and small son live in her sisters house next door .

My GF goes to school each Sunday to complete what I can only understand to be high school . And has done a free 2 month beauty salon course in Bangkok as well .

Earlier in the year I suggested that we would go and live in the new house up country for a couple of years , as it would give me some time to gather some money together to either buy a nice condo , or a house somewhere more desireable as well as finish up some debts that I have back home . At this point she had no concerns about this .

I work outside of Thailand and make quite a good income , but I tend to waste a lot in the bars on booze and ladie drinks and tips etc. You know how persuasive they can be , and whith a couple of drinks under me I tend to find myself very generous . But swear that the most I have ever done is receive a massage .

Anyway the trouble is that now she has decided that she doesn't want to move to the house . The excuse is that she wants to do a course in something ( maybe hairdressing ) and start working .

I think that she may be a little lazy as far as taking care of her children , and enjoys all the comforts of Bangkok .

I waste far more than she can earn in bangkok , let alone the extra living expenses of renting an apartment etc.

Well what do you think ? am I being selfish ? do you think that there are any other reasons for it ?

I would really like to hear it from a womans perspective as well , but all replies will be appreciated .

BTW we are engaged and getting married in March next year if we can get over this little hurdle .

Cheers ,

Jim .

[Maizefarmer]

I think there is something you dont know - but I could be complelty wrong.

Have a word with Thai Spy (or any of the other many guys in the business) - I know a few guys who have been "agog" with suprize, when assuming while working off-shore all was well back at the ranch, only to find their diligent PI uncovered a huge con was taking place. Love can cloud the best judgement.

Bar girls are chameleons - very adapt at changing their colours to suit situations. As said, I could be completly wrong, but after been here 20 years I think most cases in which I smell a rat in a "xross-cultural" relationship it turns out to be accurate.

Thanks for your openess and honesty - in return you got mine.

Tim

[Thumchok]

Thanks for the reply maizefarmer ,

I have thought at times to go that road , but then rethink and ask myself why I would think she was conning me , after all that she has done for me .

I think I may have missrepresented her to you in the thread . And my final comment on the thread was pretty much off the cuff remark , as I have all intentions of marrying her .

I just have to wonder why ( if the Thais are so family orientated ) that she would not be happy about going home to live with the family again .

Could it be that they are expecting more out of me than she knows I am willing to give ?

We can live quite comfortably in Bangkok , but I need to get away from the bar scene for a bit . It's not that I don't enjoy it , or that I don't trust myself . I have too many friends here and I need an excuse not to meet up with them .

BTW her parents , Mother especially is a very decent hearted woman , I am sure that she is very keen for us to get married . She doesn't drink , and has spent her life in the village .

My gf turned to the game when her husband died in a car accident , and left her to bring up two children alone . Her two sisters work regular jobs in Bangkok .

My gf is 29 now and has a pretty decent head on her for an uneducated person .

She doesn't want a maid , and does all the washing by hand as well . She is far from the usual lazy bargirl that I think we all have the impression of .

I am not insulted by your reply though and welcome all reasonable ideas .

Cheers ,

Jim .

[fruittbatt]

Hi Thumchok,

I am hearing from your post that you are really the one who would prefer to move out of Bangkok

for financial reasons and also because you feel ambivalent about being part of the "bar scene" (maybe a little too much drinking, a little too much temptation from the available ladies, too many hard-core farang drinking buddies?).

From what you have said, I think your fiancee has a very different agenda. She is "over" village life and seems to envisage a middle-class, urban lifestyle, with opportunities for upward mobility. She is out of the habit of bringing up her children and seems not to want to resume that responsibility. Clearly, extended family members are happy to take on the "mom" role.

What I do find strange is that you two cannot quite come to grips with the truth of your respective situations. Is that possibly because neither of you is really and truly sure of what you want, or because you cannot bear to tell each other that your goals are incompatible?

I would suggest that you take some time out by yourself, away from the bars, the TV, or any other distraction, to think this one through, and ask your fiancee to do the same. And be prepared to act according to what you decide you really want.

Hope this is not too prescriptive & that it may help. All the best,

Lady Fruittbatt

[Archie Bunker]

Sounds like you have a wonderful relationship. Good luck on your marriage. You should keep living in BKK as your girl wishes. At least this way you have easy access to the airport as you say you work outside the country. Bangkok is a good place for her to be while you are gone with her job and the social scene. No doubt she is very faithful to you as most like Thai girls in BKK are. You are lucky to have found a nice young lady like her. If I were only so lucky

[Thumchok]

Hi Thumchok,

I am hearing from your post that you are really the one who would prefer to move out of Bangkok

for financial reasons and also because you feel ambivalent about being part of the "bar scene" (maybe a little too much drinking, a little too much temptation from the available ladies, too many hard-core farang drinking buddies?).

From what you have said, I think your fiancee has a very different agenda. She is "over" village life and seems to envisage a middle-class, urban lifestyle, with opportunities for upward mobility. She is out of the habit of bringing up her children and seems not to want to resume that responsibility. Clearly, extended family members are happy to take on the "mom" role.

What I do find strange is that you two cannot quite come to grips with the truth of your respective situations. Is that possibly because neither of you is really and truly sure of what you want, or because you cannot bear to tell each other that your goals are incompatible?

I would suggest that you take some time out by yourself, away from the bars, the TV, or any other distraction, to think this one through, and ask your fiancee to do the same. And be prepared to act according to what you decide you really want.

Hope this is not too prescriptive & that it may help. All the best,

Lady Fruittbatt

Thanks Lady fruittbatt ,

Yes this sounds closer to the truth , other than her wanting to buy a rice farm up near the village earlier in the year . I dissuaded her by telling her that I thought her parents allready had their work cut out for them looking after the two that they allready own .

I have to tell you that when I come home from work , she allows me to do nothing work wise , so I have way too much spare time on my hands . I try to only spend a night out in every three , but sometimes the peer pressure from friends takes over .

I rarely drink alone at home in Bangkok , but when we go up to the house to visit the family , I will have around 4 large bottles a day , sometime after 4:00pm .

While the girls are charming and sometimes a good joke can be had with them , I do not feel in anyway attracted to them . Maybe more sorry for them would be a better word . So their is not a question of me worrying about my loyalty .

Your second paragraph makes a certain amount of sense , though find it a little cold hearted for a mother to see things that way .

The third paragraph can be explained by the language barrier . Although we talk regularly and enjoy talking to each other , we are very limited in our actual conversation . This slowly gets better as she learns more english and me more Thai .

I can be flexible and will probably do what she wants , I just want to understand her motives for taking that direction .

Cheers ,

Jim .

[udon]

I can only concur with Maizefarmer.

If she's lazy now, she will be in the future, a leopard can't change it's spots.

Husband killed in a road accident? Yeah, right!

I wish I had a tenner everytime I heard that story.

Get a PI on the job for your peace of mind.

I hope I'm wrong, for your sake.

All the very best for your future.

[fruittbatt]

Good Luck Jim,

I think the Thai/English language study is a good start in clearing up any misunderstandings. You two do sound as if you have a happy relationship & hope you'll sort it all.

It may be that your fiancee eventually hopes to have the kids live in Bangkok?

Cheers,

Lady Fruittbatt

[Thumchok]

Well , I haven't worked out how to do the multiple quotes , so I will do it all under the one .

Firstly Archie Bunker ,

Cheers for the kind words , although I was worried with the

No doubt she is very faithful to you as most like Thai girls in BKK are.

line I am wondering if you were trying to be supportive or not .

Udon ,

She is far from lazy , and I have seen photo's of the ex in front of the children . So I don't doubt for a second that he is out of the picture . I did have doubts in the beginning though . Your advice is taken aboard along with maizefarmers , and next time I am worried I will probably go through with it . But this is not the concern at the moment .

Lady fruittbatt ,

Seems that you are on a roll today .

Bringing the children to Bangkok to finish their schooling makes a great deal of sense to me . I am starting to see where it is all heading . She was talking a couple of months back about driving the elder daughter into Roi Et to school each day , This is about an hour each way from our village .

Thanks again ,

Jim .

[mrbojangles]

Your second paragraph makes a certain amount of sense , though find it a little cold hearted for a mother to see things that way .

No, not cold hearted. Many Thai's leave their children with grand parents while they go out and earn money, to send home. Very common practise but sometimes hard for Farangs to grasp.

I also think she has just got used to living in Bkk, and prefers it to Village life. My Mrs has just returned to the village and although she loves seeing her family, after about 4 or 5 weeks, she's ready to leave

Good luck

[soic]

I'm getting mixed signals... I try to look at things from both sides. She could be playing you and then again she may not. I do know one thing for sure, no matter what I tell myself and what I would tell my wife, if I were to go to a girlie bar; she, and no-one in their right mind would think that I went there just for a beer. If I'd go to a girlie bar, even if I didn't plan on taking one home, I'd be going to see some skin, get some attention or just flirt with the girls. I would have to be honest and admit that. You should do that too. Your girl no matter how open minded and "understanding" she is, most likely doesn't really "understand". What she understands most likely, is that her fella has to have a little strange or at least some new female distractions once in a while; what was it you said? 2-3 times a week. She may love you, and treat you like a king, or she could merely need you and have to accept you as you are.

The way I see it, she could have a few reasons that she may not want to go back to the village.

1. She may be afraid to take you back to the village to live; if you decided you wanted to go out and see some chickies, it would be in her back yard, and she'd look like a fool.

2.She may think that the return would be a step backward for her goals. She might really want to build a life in BKK and not return to being a little village girl. She just might be sincere...

3. She may not be happy with the relationship that she has with you, and knows that if it were to fail, she'd be right back where she started with the nothing that she left behind. A risk she's not prepared to take.

4. She could care for you quite a bit or not at all and simply be milking you for all she can get, then she'll move on to a greener field after your bounty has been harvested.

Just some thoughts, I can imagine several other scenarios. I'd suggest a long look at what you want. Going to the girlie bars isn't a sign of a loving relationship, and won't help it grow into one. If you were in love as you think you are, you should be drinking at home or not at all, or going to some different clubs with her and your mates. After that... try to figure out the message that you've been sending her, and what you want with her. Then sit down, have a long talk, lay it all out and act on that. If you want a lady to stay at home and wait on you and understand you going out with the girls... then rent one. Don't expect a lady that truly loves you to say...."It's ok dear! Look at all the ladies you want!!!" It will never happen anywhere other than your dreams, or with a lady that really doesn't care about you.

[Douggie Style]

Some very insighful advice from maizefarmer & fruitbatt,

I get the sense you are fairly relaxed and tolerant but just like to know what the bottom line is (apologies if this is wrong and you are a highly strung concert pianist).

Therefore IMHO it is a wise idea to get her fully checked out with one of the PI's. This may bring up trust issues, but that may be the lesser of any potential downside. Looking for enlightenment on her motives on a forum is very imprecise and you get the whole gamut of respondents all relating it back to their experiences.

Even if her motives are not as pure as the driven snow it doesn't mean you can't have a funky relationship.

Interesting post, you should post more often!

[bkkmadness]

Is that three posters now who have recommended getting a private detective on your gfs case because she doesn't want to move back to her hometown?

Really, to the OP, if your biggest problem of living in Bangkok is you spend too much money at lady bars, then perhaps you could use a bit of willpower, stay away from the lady bars and remain in Bangkok. It can't be that difficult can it?

[britmaveric]

Is that three posters now who have recommended getting a private detective on your gfs case because she doesn't want to move back to her hometown?

Really, to the OP, if your biggest problem of living in Bangkok is you spend too much money at lady bars, then perhaps you could use a bit of willpower, stay away from the lady bars and remain in Bangkok. It can't be that difficult can it?

I'd have to agree with BKK here, quite simply stay away from the spots that take your well earned dosh and spend more time at home. Most thai(s) do not want to go back to village life because let's face it - its back breaking work farming and on top you need to look after the lil ones. So I think she enjoys a much easier life in BKK, and likes it.

[Thaddeus]

Is that three posters now who have recommended getting a private detective on your gfs case because she doesn't want to move back to her hometown?

Really, to the OP, if your biggest problem of living in Bangkok is you spend too much money at lady bars, then perhaps you could use a bit of willpower, stay away from the lady bars and remain in Bangkok. It can't be that difficult can it?

Agreed...... if you employ a PI and she gets wind of it, probably be the end of what could be a real relationship.

Where is her village? ..... if it really is the back of the back of beyond, she may just prefer her lifestyle in BKK with you and views your visits to the bars as a necessary evil. Move back to the village and the relationship breaks down for any reason, she is back to square one, which I would think is far worse in her opinion.

[migrant]

First, I hope things continue to go well for you, sounds like some items you have to work out, but that is normal.

Village life is very limited, so perhaps she is genuinely looking at the opportunity to learn hairdressing, or something, in BKK.

What does she say about the future? 1, 5, 10 years down the line?

My Thai fiance likes it here in California, but it is to accomplish something, finish school, accumulate savings, and then move back.

She is from a small village in the Cha Am/ Hua Hin area, by no means a backwater village, but she still finds her village slow now and would rather be closer to the bigger city when we move full time to Thailand.

Best of luck!

[Thumchok]

Guys,

first of all I want to thank everyone for there opinions and taking time to jot them down . I can relate to all the answers and what you are all thinking .

I just took my lady out to a thai disco of her choice for her birthday .

It wasn't as good of a night as I would have exzpected , but we have returned home now and have some friends of hers over , so it isn't a convenient time to post .

I will be sure to get back to you all in the near future .

Cheers ,

jim .

[englishoak]

Thumchok

Above all I would learn to speak good Thai. You will get a better idea of your girl if you can understand her rather than the usual broken conversations that confuse rather than help a relationship. It will also give you an insight to what is realy going on.

[VanZam]

To be bluntly honest, if I had 1 baht for every time I've heard this story I'd be a millionare...

Do you know who exactly is living in the house you paid for?

Do you know 100% shes not married or has a Thai BF?

I agree with maize.. hire a PI.

[bkkandrew]

Agree 100% with last two posts.. Understanding the thai language is the key to really understanding a situation and, in fact, puts your relationship on an even basis.

Also... Hate to be negative, but yes, how many times have we heard it all before (and been there, emerged the other side!!)

Sorry, I think you need more investigation before coming to any conclusions..

[Thumchok]

Ok ,

firstly I want to thank all the posters for thier contributions . I know that it is hard for the limited information that I have given , to make precise explanations .

A special thanks to soic for a wonderful read and for some good thoughts .

Ok , let me try and describe the situation a little better .

Of the nights I go out , she is always welcome to accompany me and about 50% of the time she does , or catches up with me a little later . I have nothing to hide around here , and we can walk into any bar/establishment without the worries of implications . I genuinely love the girl . But after two divorces back home , I may be getting cold feet and need a little positive feedback , to put my mind at ease .

Ok ,

The story last night . This will give you a little insight to what has been happening .

I am sure there are many posters here that have been to Duan Dang ( Not sure of the spelling ? ) Thai disco . I for one have gone around 5-6 times .

I don't have much of a problem going to them , other than the limited choices in beer and spirits . I prefer tiger beer .

Anyway we usually vist the same one each time , and this time the girl decides to do the one across the road . Now I am not very old at 40 and can usually put up with noise to an excessive level . This one however had things going on inside my ears that I felt downright uncomfortable in .

So after dinner and a couple of drinks , my mate ( on my suggestion of going somewhere where we could at least converse ) suggested a gentlemens club in Asok . This was agreed to by the missus , so after slipping her enough money to pay for the evening , my mate and I went outside to give our ears a spell , and smoke a cigarette .

Some time ensued before I decided to go back in and check up on things . As I passed the table she wasn't there , so I walked on further to the toilet relieve myself and met her on the way back .

She explained that her and her friends had decided to stay , and that I was welcome to go with my friend as she understood that I was not enjoying myself .

Well , anyone with a heart would understand that i would feel like a right ahole for doing this , as it was her birthday . But being the loving guy that I am and watching the Thais bob up and down to the screeching speakers , I decided to take her up on the offer . Besides , she was with a couple of GF's , and if they had all decided this while I was out , then I would feel like a bigger Ahole for letting me or her lose face .

So everything is fine until about 1:00am . Sugar !!! , I promised that I would be home earlier than usual . She also took the key for the apartment off me , because she had left her mobile home and I needed to go to the bank before we went out , and we were running a little late .

Well a few phonecalls later , and after handing her over to the guys outside ( She asked where exactly was I ) to give her directions to join us . She finally tells me to come straight home when it is over . So about 2:30 when the joint closes down , and we have finished talking to the mamasan ( A friend of the mates ) I get the nearest taxi and head off home .

I arrive at the apartment and she has a couple of friends ( male/female I know them well ) there allready having a few drinks .

Off she goes to bed , and leaves me to them .

She has school this morning , so that is the reason for going to bed .

She woke up this morning and I did my usual sweet talking , and she is the same beautiful woman that I have loved for the last 22 months .

We have never raised our voices to each other in anger , and after a fight we both appologise no matter who was wrong ( Usually me )

I really love this woman , and yes soic , she does worry about what will happen if i vanish .

I really need some rest now ,

And for all those wondering if I did the birthday thing for the lady , I am sorry , it was that time of the month .

Cheers ,

Jim .

[Big Blue]

Very interesting post Jim, its funny reading other poeples opions, a long time ago I was in a similar situation, if you listen to everything that is said on this site it will drive you crazy.

Just take most replies with a pinch of salt and go with your own gut feeling.

[mosquitoman]

Just take most replies with a pinch of salt and go with your own gut feeling.

The best piece of advice I have read on this thread, LISTEN to your gut and TRUST it.

Do what your gut tells you to do.

Good Luck

[Big Blue]

Just take most replies with a pinch of salt and go with your own gut feeling.

The best piece of advice I have read on this thread, LISTEN to your gut and TRUST it.

Do what your gut tells you to do.

Cheers mate

[Maizefarmer]

PS - the car accident story is as old as the hills - with complete honesty & sincerity I tell you, I'd be very grateful if you would come back in due course and confirm that you know this to be the case for 100% irrefutable fact.

What she needs to show you to demonstrate this to be the case is a copy of the kid(s) birth certificates (showing her to be mom and him to be dad), and a copy of dads death certificate. Both are documents which she WILL have if this sad incident did happen.

Any prob's reading Thai then scan in a PM to me.

That said, a "not to be forgotten" point lies behind the story, irrespective of whether this particular story is true or false: while most bar-gilrs are a lazy lot looking for a quick solution (only to mostly regret their choices 20 plus years - when old, ugly and of no interest to anyone anymore), the overwhelming majority take no pleasure in been prostitutes.

Secondly, while we see happy smiling faces under the bright lights of bars, the story behind many of these girls is often as sad as are the stories behind Western prostitutes. Other than poverty and dropping out of school early (its tough enough getting a decent earning job in Thailand with an education - never mind without) been a common thread through the lives of nearly all of them, there is also often a history of abuse, broken family structure, addiction/alcholism, mental instability, and a whole range of character/personality problems.

There are some stats on farang/bargirl marriges done by one of the Bkk Uni's a few years ago:

About 95% fail within the first 5 years or so, but interestingly, of those that last over 10 years some 90% turn out to be realy long term relationships and a group in which the divorce rates are not much different to the rest of Thai society. So - it is possible.

Tim

[OlRedEyes]

To get into a marraige with these doubts in your head, and with the plethora of similar sad-ending stories around, is stupid IMHO.

Just the fact that you have so many doubts and unanswered questions in your mind should tell you to take it slow and careful. Give it some time, and if she doesn't want to wait with the marraige till you are sure, that's another red flag.

As you said, the two of you can't even communicate well. Marraige?

[swissie]

Hi Thumchok,

the fact, that your G/F would rather not go back with you to her "village" on a long term basis with you would indicate the following:

- Your habit (or urge) to "hit the town" 2 to 3 times a week does not exactly qualify you as an ieal future husband. (And she knows it.)

So, I must conclude that her desire to stay in "the big city" is based on the idea that "I am unlikely to find a desirable husband in my village, but can find it in Bangkok." So, while you are footing her bill(s), she will persue this search with vigor. But under the above described circumstances, I can't blame her.

A Thai-Wife will accept the fact, that sooner or later the "husband " will have something called a "mia noi". But this usually happens as time goes by and the marriage gets a bit "routine". But if you start out with a bunch of "buddy distractions" and your future wife knows about those "faibles" of you, don't be surprised if above described scenario unfolds.

Cheers.

[Neeranam]

The best piece of advice I have read on this thread, LISTEN to your gut and TRUST it.

Do what your gut tells you to do.

Good Luck

No - listen to guys who have been here for a long time or have done it.

Get her well away from her old place of work.

Don't marry a bar girl, especially one with kids - the odds are heavily stacked against you.

I'd bet that her husband is living in Roi Et, and that's why she doesn't want to go back there.

[Beavis and Butthead]

To be bluntly honest, if I had 1 baht for every time I've heard this story I'd be a millionare...

Do you know who exactly is living in the house you paid for?

Do you know 100% shes not married or has a Thai BF?

I agree with maize.. hire a PI.

No no no, do not hire a PI. There is no doubt she is a good girl considering everything you have said. If you hire a PI then you dont trust her. This would be very bad. Just look around this forum and see so many similar great relationships built around trust. Have you ever caught her trying to cheat on you? No. She is a good girl

[binnsy]

Jim,Getting a PI is a way to go if you feel here is really a need,if you feel that there is a need then i would say 'call time'.

From what you have written i think you are happy with the situation so hiring a PI is asking for trouble.You G/F worked in a bar so what! majority are working in bars to support the family.IF YOU ARE HAPPY FORGET HER PAST

ATB

Jim