Our Fish Farming Experiment....

[ozzydom]

Chownah, The Ideas Tilapia and Frikkie have suggested are IMHO the way to go with a small hobby pond ,as they will both tell you it is a tough job turning a profit in this business and a good bottom line revolves around keeping your costs down and growing a good product to get the best possible price.

Taking into account what you have posted, my advise would be to go with the green water method using your available materials ie. chook poo. That coupled with the mixed sex Pla Nin should give your Dukes enough food , Dukes are cannibalistic so a few of the smaller ones will get gobbled up in the process.

Once you get your water greened up try to acquire some river prawns,they are the little ones the Thais call Goong (the little ones they eat live) toss some in and they will breed giving more food for your Pla Duc.

Keep your costs down and dont be in a hurry to sell,Pla Duc are reasonably quick growers but grown on to 700-800gram and bigger they are bringing about 80baht per kilo and are a fine table fish albut with a limited market.

Just provide the right environment and keep a bag of pellets to enable your better half to toss in and see her "babies " progress .

And when the rains start you will probably find many of them parked up against the fence your wife is wisely erecting,just toss them back in.

[Somtham]

Somtham,

Interesting post. Surprisingly the pond (which is more than two years old) has never really turned green. Where we live ponds are dug to ground water level which varies throughout the year from being at the surface of the ground during rice season when the paddy is all flooded to being maybe 1.5 or 2 metres below ground level depending on the exact place....maybe this has to do with why the pond hasn't turned green...it did sort of get green during the dry season when the water depth got down to about 40 cm more or less and my wife had been throwing our compost in it for awhile.

I'm thinking that we'll try to get the algae growing AND do some feeding. I think I understand how to use manure to feed the algae but I know that the amount of pellets to feed depends on the size or weight of the fish in the pond but so far I don't know how to estimate the weight and haven't found any advise yet on how to guage this from the size...I guess we could estimate the size at feeding time....so I'm trying to get a grip on how much to feed....and then if we get a good algae bloom I can maybe feed the pellets at half the usual rate I guess unless I can get some better guidance on this which I might not be able to find since the plan we have so far is sort of a bastardized cross between two methods.

We will be growing pla duk this year and I'm trying to get the wife motivated to locate some breeding tilapia but she seems to think that this makes life to complicated or something so I'm primarily working on the best thing for the pla duk with the idea that tilapia could be worked into the equation primarily to convert plants to fry for the pla duk to eat...and with an eye on doing full on mixed breed culture in the future......if I can get the wife motivated...I'm pretty much busy doing rice since this year I'm doing 3 rai of paddy on my own for the first time and I'm keeping that as my main focus....my vegetable garden has been sorely neglected......

Chownah

Get her motivated by feeding pellets and watch the fish grow instead of waiting for the water to turn green. If your fish were about 5cm long then I would guess they weigh around 15g each. Feed recommendations are 2% of body weight so with 1k fish you should be looking at feeding 3 keat per day. We feed to satiation 6 days a week. If you're patient, which my wife is not, throw in some feed, slowly and watch them eat. As Frikkie says, it won't be long before they know where the feed is. Watch the fish feed and you will see them very aggresive initially and then they'll slow down their eating. Dish out additional feed slowly and stop feeding when you see them just nibbling.

If you really want to sell your fish within 4-5 months I think you should wait for the polyculture until next Spring, say around March, so you can have afull growing season. Right now the focus should be on the wife growinga nd selling fish in a short time.

FAO has many great downloadable books on growing fish and I suggest you download and read this one. Do a Google and you'll find the link.

FAO Management for freshwater fish culture

Good luck and rgds

[Tilapia]

Somtham,

Interesting post. Surprisingly the pond (which is more than two years old) has never really turned green. Where we live ponds are dug to ground water level which varies throughout the year from being at the surface of the ground during rice season when the paddy is all flooded to being maybe 1.5 or 2 metres below ground level depending on the exact place....maybe this has to do with why the pond hasn't turned green...it did sort of get green during the dry season when the water depth got down to about 40 cm more or less and my wife had been throwing our compost in it for awhile.

I'm thinking that we'll try to get the algae growing AND do some feeding. I think I understand how to use manure to feed the algae but I know that the amount of pellets to feed depends on the size or weight of the fish in the pond but so far I don't know how to estimate the weight and haven't found any advise yet on how to guage this from the size...I guess we could estimate the size at feeding time....so I'm trying to get a grip on how much to feed....and then if we get a good algae bloom I can maybe feed the pellets at half the usual rate I guess unless I can get some better guidance on this which I might not be able to find since the plan we have so far is sort of a bastardized cross between two methods.

We will be growing pla duk this year and I'm trying to get the wife motivated to locate some breeding tilapia but she seems to think that this makes life to complicated or something so I'm primarily working on the best thing for the pla duk with the idea that tilapia could be worked into the equation primarily to convert plants to fry for the pla duk to eat...and with an eye on doing full on mixed breed culture in the future......if I can get the wife motivated...I'm pretty much busy doing rice since this year I'm doing 3 rai of paddy on my own for the first time and I'm keeping that as my main focus....my vegetable garden has been sorely neglected......

Chownah

Get her motivated by feeding pellets and watch the fish grow instead of waiting for the water to turn green. If your fish were about 5cm long then I would guess they weigh around 15g each. Feed recommendations are 2% of body weight so with 1k fish you should be looking at feeding 3 keat per day. We feed to satiation 6 days a week. If you're patient, which my wife is not, throw in some feed, slowly and watch them eat. As Frikkie says, it won't be long before they know where the feed is. Watch the fish feed and you will see them very aggresive initially and then they'll slow down their eating. Dish out additional feed slowly and stop feeding when you see them just nibbling.

If you really want to sell your fish within 4-5 months I think you should wait for the polyculture until next Spring, say around March, so you can have afull growing season. Right now the focus should be on the wife growinga nd selling fish in a short time.

FAO has many great downloadable books on growing fish and I suggest you download and read this one. Do a Google and you'll find the link.

FAO Management for freshwater fish culture

Good luck and rgds

Hi Somtham.

The drumfilter is almost done, and it look damm good, and cheap...

Cheers

Tilapia.

[frikkiedeboer]

About 40 years ago I visited a farm near Perth in Western Australia

where a guy was experimenting with breeding insects.

He had a shed with huge piles of rubbish - all biodegradable stuff

anything from lawn clippings to dead animals, dung etc.

He had found a kind of small beetle that was happy to eat all that

stuff and multiplied at a huge rate.

I don't know how he separated the bugs from the un-eaten rubbish but

he processed them by roasting them in a rotary oven and

then fed them into a crusher that produced a fine powder of very high

protein value. He said it could be used as an additive to cattle feed.

I would imagine that the same process could be used to make fish

food. Eventually his project was shut down by the health authorities

because they were worried that the process could spread disease.

He also invented the process to recycle old tyres by freezing them with

liquid nitrogen and crushing them but had trouble making anyone interested

in the process. It was cheaper to throw the tyres onto a rubbish tip.

Using lights over the ponds is an excellent way of making use of insects.

How about breeding them in captivity (or capturing them en mass) and

feeding them to the fish ..

I remember driving through swampy country at night. After a few kilometres

the windscreen was like a carpet - thick with dead midges/mosquitos.

If you had a large net mounted on the back of a pickup, I reckon you could

gather enough bugs to feed your fish almost (less fuel costs) for free?

That may be a bit too dependent on the season though ..

Another perhaps manageable method would be to use bacteria in the

same way that brewers use yeast to make beer.

I believe a lot of food products are made this way. e.g. Vegemite ..

The aim would be to use cheap carbohydrate (rice or cane sugar)

then add nitrogen and other ingredients to produce protein.

One only needs to find the correct bacteria to do the conversion.

It could solve the world's food (fish) shortage.

the insect thing could be a good one- the problem is being able to produce the quantities needed on a daily basis. a ton of catfish would eat about 50kg of dried insect meal per day, and actually, insects sell in thailand for more than the fish do! so it would be more profitable just to market the insects as food! housefly larvae (maggots) are easy to produce, and there are loads of sites describing the process, quantities, and the smell being limiting factors.

there were a flurry of posts about dried earthworms earlier this year, but once again, the same questions put paid to the idea.

a high protien feed can be made from animal manures and sludges. i have just been studying up on it- they end up with a single cell protien yeast, which is the byproduct of the action of aerobic bacteria and various fermentation processes. thing is, though, do you really want a huge ditch full of diluted,rotting chicken manure anywhere near your house?

dont think the health authorities would shut you down in thailand, so it would be possible, i suppose.

regards

frikkie

[ratchabuild]

About 40 years ago I visited a farm near Perth in Western Australia

where a guy was experimenting with breeding insects.

He had a shed with huge piles of rubbish - all biodegradable stuff

anything from lawn clippings to dead animals, dung etc.

He had found a kind of small beetle that was happy to eat all that

stuff and multiplied at a huge rate.

I don't know how he separated the bugs from the un-eaten rubbish but

he processed them by roasting them in a rotary oven and

then fed them into a crusher that produced a fine powder of very high

protein value. He said it could be used as an additive to cattle feed.

I would imagine that the same process could be used to make fish

food. Eventually his project was shut down by the health authorities

because they were worried that the process could spread disease.

He also invented the process to recycle old tyres by freezing them with

liquid nitrogen and crushing them but had trouble making anyone interested

in the process. It was cheaper to throw the tyres onto a rubbish tip.

Using lights over the ponds is an excellent way of making use of insects.

How about breeding them in captivity (or capturing them en mass) and

feeding them to the fish ..

I remember driving through swampy country at night. After a few kilometres

the windscreen was like a carpet - thick with dead midges/mosquitos.

If you had a large net mounted on the back of a pickup, I reckon you could

gather enough bugs to feed your fish almost (less fuel costs) for free?

That may be a bit too dependent on the season though ..

Another perhaps manageable method would be to use bacteria in the

same way that brewers use yeast to make beer.

I believe a lot of food products are made this way. e.g. Vegemite ..

The aim would be to use cheap carbohydrate (rice or cane sugar)

then add nitrogen and other ingredients to produce protein.

One only needs to find the correct bacteria to do the conversion.

It could solve the world's food (fish) shortage.

the insect thing could be a good one- the problem is being able to produce the quantities needed on a daily basis. a ton of catfish would eat about 50kg of dried insect meal per day, and actually, insects sell in thailand for more than the fish do! so it would be more profitable just to market the insects as food! housefly larvae (maggots) are easy to produce, and there are loads of sites describing the process, quantities, and the smell being limiting factors.

there were a flurry of posts about dried earthworms earlier this year, but once again, the same questions put paid to the idea.

a high protien feed can be made from animal manures and sludges. i have just been studying up on it- they end up with a single cell protien yeast, which is the byproduct of the action of aerobic bacteria and various fermentation processes. thing is, though, do you really want a huge ditch full of diluted,rotting chicken manure anywhere near your house?

dont think the health authorities would shut you down in thailand, so it would be possible, i suppose.

regards

frikkie

Fascinating thread, the best I have ever read. A few thoughts and observations. For reading up the subject in english and Thai, the Princess I think, commissioned a big study on fish farming. I have read some of it cant remember where buts its available. She is behind the schools initiative mentioned earlier. From what I read at the time the most successful fish farmers in the region seem to be the indonesians. I dont know why and the section of the report i read did not specify. Does anyone know why and how do their techniques differ. I know their stocking ratios seemed fantastically high as did their yields.

I have a small fish farm and rear carp to show not to eat, about 200000 per year. I am going to switch to concrete tanks and turn the ponds into a big fishing pond. Concrete needs to stand for several months with water in it before its safe to use to answer an earlier question. My Thai family dont really buy the concept of a balanced self sustaining enviroment using concrete. I hope to convince them. Any suggestion for stocking policy for sport and eating fish for say a three rai pond? I dont want to have to keep chucking in feed. Will use Duck manure to green it. Any idea of how it compares to chicken manure? I believe in china they use the fallow system and then flood the heavily weeded dry pond with water and turn the fingerlings loose into that enviroment. Is that used at all in thaia

land? I have not come across it but its something I wish to consider. Another point I had made by Thais is that intensive rearing of fish is against bhuddist principles since you are purposely rearing only to kill not to breed or use in any other way. How is that different from ordinary farming? I would especially like any advice re the fishing and eating pond. I love to eat catfish and was thinking of Snakeheads too. Are tilapia as a food source for the fish a godd idea? What about stocking ratios in a non oxygenated pond? Incidentally the ponds are protected all around and overhead with nets. I wondered about putting a few dead trees in the fishing pond for habitat and to prevent netting by poachers, good idea or not? My mother in law plants a strong edible plant, morning glory in our klong to stop netting. we put the ugly carp in there and they grow at a fantastic rate.

On the subject of maggot farms.............the rodent, rat infestation is phenomenal, they pile in gnaw in and run riot. Good concept but fiendishly difficult to operate if you are anywhere nearby. You would be better off feeding the rats to the fish. They are the best crop raised.

Thanks..........wonderful informative intelligent thread, pleasure to contribute.

Edited July 24, 2007 by ratchabuild

[Tilapia]

Fascinating thread, the best I have ever read. A few thoughts and observations. For reading up the subject in english and Thai, the Princess I think, commissioned a big study on fish farming. I have read some of it cant remember where buts its available. She is behind the schools initiative mentioned earlier. From what I read at the time the most successful fish farmers in the region seem to be the indonesians. I dont know why and the section of the report i read did not specify. Does anyone know why and how do their techniques differ. I know their stocking ratios seemed fantastically high as did their yields.

I have a small fish farm and rear carp to show not to eat, about 200000 per year. I am going to switch to concrete tanks and turn the ponds into a big fishing pond. Concrete needs to stand for several months with water in it before its safe to use to answer an earlier question. My Thai family dont really buy the concept of a balanced self sustaining enviroment using concrete. I hope to convince them. Any suggestion for stocking policy for sport and eating fish for say a three rai pond? I dont want to have to keep chucking in feed. Will use Duck manure to green it. Any idea of how it compares to chicken manure? I believe in china they use the fallow system and then flood the heavily weeded dry pond with water and turn the fingerlings loose into that enviroment. Is that used at all in thaia

land? I have not come across it but its something I wish to consider. Another point I had made by Thais is that intensive rearing of fish is against bhuddist principles since you are purposely rearing only to kill not to breed or use in any other way. How is that different from ordinary farming? I would especially like any advice re the fishing and eating pond. I love to eat catfish and was thinking of Snakeheads too. Are tilapia as a food source for the fish a godd idea? What about stocking ratios in a non oxygenated pond? Incidentally the ponds are protected all around and overhead with nets. I wondered about putting a few dead trees in the fishing pond for habitat and to prevent netting by poachers, good idea or not? My mother in law plants a strong edible plant, morning glory in our klong to stop netting. we put the ugly carp in there and they grow at a fantastic rate.

On the subject of maggot farms.............the rodent, rat infestation is phenomenal, they pile in gnaw in and run riot. Good concept but fiendishly difficult to operate if you are anywhere nearby. You would be better off feeding the rats to the fish. They are the best crop raised.

Thanks..........wonderful informative intelligent thread, pleasure to contribute.

Hi.

You dont need to leave your concrete tanks for month, just fill them up with water and chop a banana tree up so it covers the whole surface, leave it there for 7 days, then change the water, fill up again, check the water parameters, and then release the fish. That is how I do, and it works fine.

Regards

Tilapia.

[Tilapia]

Hi All

For me it seems that people think, that the higher the protein the better the fish will grow, that is true to a point, if you use a ballanced diet, there need to be carbonhydrate as well as other minerals, protein alone wont do the job. Before I got my extruder I used dead chickens mixed together with ricepolish, high protein sure, but not a good diet, our FCR was 3-5 at all time, after getting the extruder the FCR dropped to 1.1 to 1.3 with Catfish, so sell your bugs in the local market, and use the money to buy pellets, it will work out for the better.

Regards

Tilapia.

[ozzydom]

There are many varying methods of raising fish, I personally use the green water method as it suits our operation and market, our costs are kept down by only supplemental feeding,an FCR of about 1:1 ,using a shandy of pellets,50% 15.5 %protein and 50% 35% protein gives an average protein of about 25%.which saves about 50 baht per bag.

Our market prefers fish 450-500gram and it takes us maybe 4-6 weeks longer to get them to this weight than by heavy feeding of high protein pellets, but with a FCR of 1:1 and selling at 50baht per kilo, I figure we do ok.

Our only other cost is Superphosphate which we add at the rate of 7kg each pond twice a month ,cost is 12 baht per kg or 168 baht per pond/month.

This method would not suit large operators like Tilapia who I believe grow for a wholesale market and therefore needs a much more precise regime to obtain a reasonable bottom line.

Our next project is Giant Freshwater Prawns grown on to larger sizes for the restuarant trade, costs and risks are higher but so are the potential returns,time will tell on that one.

[chownah]

Get her motivated by feeding pellets and watch the fish grow instead of waiting for the water to turn green. If your fish were about 5cm long then I would guess they weigh around 15g each. Feed recommendations are 2% of body weight so with 1k fish you should be looking at feeding 3 keat per day. We feed to satiation 6 days a week. If you're patient, which my wife is not, throw in some feed, slowly and watch them eat. As Frikkie says, it won't be long before they know where the feed is. Watch the fish feed and you will see them very aggresive initially and then they'll slow down their eating. Dish out additional feed slowly and stop feeding when you see them just nibbling.

If you really want to sell your fish within 4-5 months I think you should wait for the polyculture until next Spring, say around March, so you can have afull growing season. Right now the focus should be on the wife growinga nd selling fish in a short time.

FAO has many great downloadable books on growing fish and I suggest you download and read this one. Do a Google and you'll find the link.

FAO Management for freshwater fish culture

Good luck and rgds

Somtham,

We're not going to wait for the algae that's for sure but we will add the chickenshit to develop the algae as if done cautiously it should at least not create any problems....my wife is using the last of the feed that came with the fry and we'll be buying some more feed soon so I'm focusing on the feed issues. Thanks for the advise to use 2% of body weight each day. Are you sure that 5 cm fry will weigh 15 grams? From the weight of the bags the fish came in there is no way that the fish could weigh 15 kilograms (for 1,000 fry at 15 grams per fry). I've been looking on the internet for weight of 5 cm fry and so far the only thing I have found indicates that 1.5 grams would be closer to being correct.

Chownah

[ozzydom]

This is where I rest up in my hammock and survey all my hard work.

And being under no pressure lets me enjoy my other passions. (both of them)

[Tilapia]

There are many varying methods of raising fish, I personally use the green water method as it suits our operation and market, our costs are kept down by only supplemental feeding,an FCR of about 1:1 ,using a shandy of pellets,50% 15.5 %protein and 50% 35% protein gives an average protein of about 25%.which saves about 50 baht per bag.

Our market prefers fish 450-500gram and it takes us maybe 4-6 weeks longer to get them to this weight than by heavy feeding of high protein pellets, but with a FCR of 1:1 and selling at 50baht per kilo, I figure we do ok.

Our only other cost is Superphosphate which we add at the rate of 7kg each pond twice a month ,cost is 12 baht per kg or 168 baht per pond/month.

This method would not suit large operators like Tilapia who I believe grow for a wholesale market and therefore needs a much more precise regime to obtain a reasonable bottom line.

Our next project is Giant Freshwater Prawns grown on to larger sizes for the restuarant trade, costs and risks are higher but so are the potential returns,time will tell on that one.

Hi Ozzy

Yep, grenn water wont work here, I have attach a few pictures.

[Tilapia]

Sorry Green......not grenn,

[ozzydom]

There are many varying methods of raising fish, I personally use the green water method as it suits our operation and market, our costs are kept down by only supplemental feeding,an FCR of about 1:1 ,using a shandy of pellets,50% 15.5 %protein and 50% 35% protein gives an average protein of about 25%.which saves about 50 baht per bag.

Our market prefers fish 450-500gram and it takes us maybe 4-6 weeks longer to get them to this weight than by heavy feeding of high protein pellets, but with a FCR of 1:1 and selling at 50baht per kilo, I figure we do ok.

Our only other cost is Superphosphate which we add at the rate of 7kg each pond twice a month ,cost is 12 baht per kg or 168 baht per pond/month.

This method would not suit large operators like Tilapia who I believe grow for a wholesale market and therefore needs a much more precise regime to obtain a reasonable bottom line.

Our next project is Giant Freshwater Prawns grown on to larger sizes for the restuarant trade, costs and risks are higher but so are the potential returns,time will tell on that one.

Hi Ozzy

Yep, grenn water wont work here, I have attach a few pictures.

Great pics mate, my hairs grey already,it would fall out if I had the worry of an operation of that scale

[Somtham]

Somtham,

We're not going to wait for the algae that's for sure but we will add the chickenshit to develop the algae as if done cautiously it should at least not create any problems....my wife is using the last of the feed that came with the fry and we'll be buying some more feed soon so I'm focusing on the feed issues. Thanks for the advise to use 2% of body weight each day. Are you sure that 5 cm fry will weigh 15 grams? From the weight of the bags the fish came in there is no way that the fish could weigh 15 kilograms (for 1,000 fry at 15 grams per fry). I've been looking on the internet for weight of 5 cm fry and so far the only thing I have found indicates that 1.5 grams would be closer to being correct.

Chownah

You're right on the weight. I missed by a decimal!! Easy enough to weigh the fish once a week. During feeding just a net some, count them out and weigh them. Obviously the more you do the more accurate will be the weight.

Good luck and keep and eye out for predators. Frogs, kiats, birds, snakes, eels, and monitor lizards all frequent our ponds for free, effortless meals.

rgds

[Somtham]

Our next project is Giant Freshwater Prawns grown on to larger sizes for the restuarant trade, costs and risks are higher but so are the potential returns,time will tell on that one.

We just planted our first prawns about 6 weeks ago. So far, so good (knock on wood). They were about 0.5cm when we bought them and now the bigger ones are about 6cm. Mostly intended for the BBQ but we'll see how it goes by next Songkran.

rgds

[Monkeypants]

I have just bought some land and it has two good sized ponds on it, both hold Plaa nin.

I read earlier in the thread about how little profit that fish generate, but surely if you don't buy food, then the fish grow naturally, perhaps they take more time to get to marketable size but then its all profit isn't it? Assuming that the fish will spawn themselves and no need to buy fingerlings?

Am I missing something here?

And how long doe's it take for the plaa nin to reach marketable size with feed and how long without feed?

BTW also we have a chicken farm, broilers, that hold 12000 chickens, we feed them for 45 days and then they are off to the processing plant, we have plenty of power feed pellets that I could feed the fish, would this be a good idea?

Also I am not in Thailand just yet, but I will be leaving UK in 5 weeks time to start this new venture.

Currently the chickens are being looked after by my very experienced Thai in laws.

I don;t think they know much about fish though.

[Tilapia]

I have just bought some land and it has two good sized ponds on it, both hold Plaa nin.

I read earlier in the thread about how little profit that fish generate, but surely if you don't buy food, then the fish grow naturally, perhaps they take more time to get to marketable size but then its all profit isn't it? Assuming that the fish will spawn themselves and no need to buy fingerlings?

Am I missing something here?

And how long doe's it take for the plaa nin to reach marketable size with feed and how long without feed?

BTW also we have a chicken farm, broilers, that hold 12000 chickens, we feed them for 45 days and then they are off to the processing plant, we have plenty of power feed pellets that I could feed the fish, would this be a good idea?

Also I am not in Thailand just yet, but I will be leaving UK in 5 weeks time to start this new venture.

Currently the chickens are being looked after by my very experienced Thai in laws.

I don;t think they know much about fish though.

Hi Monkeypants

If you want to grow plar Nin, then you need to use mono sex (male only) a good place to buy fry is Nam Sai Farm in Prachin-Buri. If you use mixed sex they will ony breed and not get bigger than appox 300 grams.

You can use the green water algae system and supply with pellets as well, you need to be careful with the stocking density, to many in an open pond with no additional air-supply, will result in high mortality.

Your chicken feed wont work very well, first of all they will sink, not float, second, they are low on protein, you are better of using commercial pellets.

Good luck with it.

Cheers

Tilapia.

[Tilapia]

There are many varying methods of raising fish, I personally use the green water method as it suits our operation and market, our costs are kept down by only supplemental feeding,an FCR of about 1:1 ,using a shandy of pellets,50% 15.5 %protein and 50% 35% protein gives an average protein of about 25%.which saves about 50 baht per bag.

Our market prefers fish 450-500gram and it takes us maybe 4-6 weeks longer to get them to this weight than by heavy feeding of high protein pellets, but with a FCR of 1:1 and selling at 50baht per kilo, I figure we do ok.

Our only other cost is Superphosphate which we add at the rate of 7kg each pond twice a month ,cost is 12 baht per kg or 168 baht per pond/month.

This method would not suit large operators like Tilapia who I believe grow for a wholesale market and therefore needs a much more precise regime to obtain a reasonable bottom line.

Our next project is Giant Freshwater Prawns grown on to larger sizes for the restuarant trade, costs and risks are higher but so are the potential returns,time will tell on that one.

Hi Ozzy

Yep, grenn water wont work here, I have attach a few pictures.

Great pics mate, my hairs grey already,it would fall out if I had the worry of an operation of that scale

Hi Ozzy

My hair is getting grey , and it is not fun, but I'm still young in heart , so I do ok. A few pics of our extruder.

[Monkeypants]

Thanks Tilapia.

I am looking at it more a a hobby for now but wanting to make money from it as well.

It is not crucial that I make money from the fish, but I really want to have a go, don't mind spending a few bob to get it started. I believe that at the moment both ponds have plaa ninn and plaa duk, and both have massive water fountains which look great, and I assume aid in aeration?

I will probably do as you say with the green algae method, I believe that this is how it currently operating.

I can't wait to start having fun.

Thanks to a great thread.

[ozzydom]

There are many varying methods of raising fish, I personally use the green water method as it suits our operation and market, our costs are kept down by only supplemental feeding,an FCR of about 1:1 ,using a shandy of pellets,50% 15.5 %protein and 50% 35% protein gives an average protein of about 25%.which saves about 50 baht per bag.

Our market prefers fish 450-500gram and it takes us maybe 4-6 weeks longer to get them to this weight than by heavy feeding of high protein pellets, but with a FCR of 1:1 and selling at 50baht per kilo, I figure we do ok.

Our only other cost is Superphosphate which we add at the rate of 7kg each pond twice a month ,cost is 12 baht per kg or 168 baht per pond/month.

This method would not suit large operators like Tilapia who I believe grow for a wholesale market and therefore needs a much more precise regime to obtain a reasonable bottom line.

Our next project is Giant Freshwater Prawns grown on to larger sizes for the restuarant trade, costs and risks are higher but so are the potential returns,time will tell on that one.

Hi Ozzy

Yep, grenn water wont work here, I have attach a few pictures.

Great pics mate, my hairs grey already,it would fall out if I had the worry of an operation of that scale

Hi Ozzy

My hair is getting grey , and it is not fun, but I'm still young in heart , so I do ok. A few pics of our extruder.

Careful about bending over in front of that extruder worm mate, . We will be going down to pick up some fry from Nam Sai in a few weeks so might be able to arrange a visit and talk fish food,rats are a problem here among the rice paddies so am trying to source a storeage hopper ,bagged pellets get decimated by the rodents. What is your reccomended storeage period for your pellets (max ).

Ozzy

[Tilapia]

My hair is getting grey , and it is not fun, but I'm still young in heart , so I do ok. A few pics of our extruder.

Careful about bending over in front of that extruder worm mate, . We will be going down to pick up some fry from Nam Sai in a few weeks so might be able to arrange a visit and talk fish food,rats are a problem here among the rice paddies so am trying to source a storeage hopper ,bagged pellets get decimated by the rodents. What is your reccomended storeage period for your pellets (max ).

Ozzy

Hi Ozzy.

If I dry them as much as possible, then they "should" (knock on wood) be ok for 7 weeks , but if you could use them in 4 weeks, it would be better

Cheers

Tilapia.

[mrbojangles]

What a fantastic thread guys. I've only just spotted it as i don't come in the farming section too much.

The Mrs has a pond about 2 rai in which she just let's the family use it as a way to help them be self sufficient. We also have Mango's, bananas, chickens and Man Sam Palang (sp). I don't get involved as A) i'm in the UK and they only let me look but not touch when i visit

However, from what i've seen they don't give them anything really. Left over rice and bits and bobs of leftover food is all i have seen them feed the fish and they grow ok. Is this because the balance is about right and the fish are themselves self sufficient?

If you want to grow plar Nin, then you need to use mono sex (male only) a good place to buy fry is Nam Sai Farm in Prachin-Buri. If you use mixed sex they will ony breed and not get bigger than appox 300 grams.

Thanks for that Tilapia. I thought the mrs was getting ripped off when buying these, as i thought the supplier made sure that she only got males so that you couldn't start breeding your own and put him out of business!! Suspicious falang eh!!

[Tilapia]

How can we be anything "but" Suspicious in this place ??

Tilapia

[chownah]

Update

I bought a 20 kilo bag of "Master" No. 711 pla duk fish food for 390 baht. It has 32% protein and the first two ingredients listed are fish and soybean.

Also, Ozzydom mentioned adding small shrimps to the pond to eat algae and provide food for the pla duk....we have them already as they come with the irrigation water along with wild pla duk, pla chon, and other assorted small fish. My wife says that when she feeds the babies she also sees market sized pla duk (wild ones I'm sure)...she says about five of them can be seen at once while feeding so I'm guessing that there might be even a few more. Do you think that it would be best to net these large pla duk (while feeding) since they are eating size already and they do pose a danger to the small ones? I'm asking because the wife says that smaller pla duk have better flavor but she also likes to fish and of course all people who fish long for "the big fish" so she is of two minds on this and I need a tie breaker for her mental conflicts on this.

Also my wife says that she sees pla nin (tilapia) from time to time in the pond...maybe a bit smaller than market size. She did put in some tilapia last year but the fry weren't in good shape and some were dead on arrival...when we drained the pond we were fairly thorough at cleaning the fish out but only got two tilapia and given the sad shape they were in when we released them I wasn't surprised and figured that the two were the loan survivors....I guess they must have bred already if we have some now. At any rate the evidence seems to indicate that we already have fish to eat the algae and be eaten by the pla duk so I won't be adding any more tilapia this year. I'm going to watch at feeding time soon to see what my impressions are of what's there.

My wife has been putting our table wastes (except for what goes to the dogs) into the pond for quite awhile now (at my suggestion). Last year when we drained the pond and took the fish the mud in the bottom smelled somewhat like spoiling garbage....is this a problem? I know that large amounts of garbage can lower the dissolved oxygen (DO) level and that's not good and I've told the wife about the possible hazard with too much table wastes...and I've also told her that I don't know how much is too much. She has stopped puitting the table wastes in the pond ever since we put the pla duk fry in and I'm sure this is because of my explanation of the DO. We will start putting chickenshit in (probably tomorrow) to turn the water green. Do you think that the table wastes are a valuable addition or do you think that it really has little benefit and only poses a minor hazard...or what?

chownah

Edited July 27, 2007 by chownah

[frikkiedeboer]

Update

I bought a 20 kilo bag of "Master" No. 711 pla duk fish food for 390 baht. It has 32% protein and the first two ingredients listed are fish and soybean.

Also, Ozzydom mentioned adding small shrimps to the pond to eat algae and provide food for the pla duk....we have them already as they come with the irrigation water along with wild pla duk, pla chon, and other assorted small fish. My wife says that when she feeds the babies she also sees market sized pla duk (wild ones I'm sure)...she says about five of them can be seen at once while feeding so I'm guessing that there might be even a few more. Do you think that it would be best to net these large pla duk (while feeding) since they are eating size already and they do pose a danger to the small ones? I'm asking because the wife says that smaller pla duk have better flavor but she also likes to fish and of course all people who fish long for "the big fish" so she is of two minds on this and I need a tie breaker for her mental conflicts on this.

Also my wife says that she sees pla nin (tilapia) from time to time in the pond...maybe a bit smaller than market size. She did put in some tilapia last year but the fry weren't in good shape and some were dead on arrival...when we drained the pond we were fairly thorough at cleaning the fish out but only got two tilapia and given the sad shape they were in when we released them I wasn't surprised and figured that the two were the loan survivors....I guess they must have bred already if we have some now. At any rate the evidence seems to indicate that we already have fish to eat the algae and be eaten by the pla duk so I won't be adding any more tilapia this year. I'm going to watch at feeding time soon to see what my impressions are of what's there.

My wife has been putting our table wastes (except for what goes to the dogs) into the pond for quite awhile now (at my suggestion). Last year when we drained the pond and took the fish the mud in the bottom smelled somewhat like spoiling garbage....is this a problem? I know that large amounts of garbage can lower the dissolved oxygen (DO) level and that's not good and I've told the wife about the possible hazard with too much table wastes...and I've also told her that I don't know how much is too much. She has stopped puitting the table wastes in the pond ever since we put the pla duk fry in and I'm sure this is because of my explanation of the DO. We will start putting chickenshit in (probably tomorrow) to turn the water green. Do you think that the table wastes are a valuable addition or do you think that it really has little benefit and only poses a minor hazard...or what?

chownah

dont waste your time trying to net out a couple of pla-douk . you will probably not catch a single one, and will probably not get them all out even after draining the pond. they could eat the fingerlings, but you should worry more about pla-chon, which are far more predatory, and probably exist in the pond already. i doubt your table waste will have any effect-good or bad on a pond your size. pla douk will not die and can survive at 0% D.O. as long as they are over 1 month old. if the tilapia start dying you have a problem with water quality, but at your stocking rate, i doubt this will happen. the "rotten egg" smell in the pond bottom is caused by the beneficial bacteria which convert the wastes and is normal. get that water green and stock the tilapia.

then wait......

good luck

[Gary A]

One of my ponds is pretty shallow, probably less than a meter and a half. The water is fairly clear and there is some vegetation growing in the center of it. It resembles pine needle branches and is quite green. I wanted to take a picture of a sample of it but couldn't talk my wife into going in to get a sample. I asked her if Pla Nin would eat it and she just gave me that who knows look. Will those vegetarian fish eat most plants?

[Tilapia]

One of my ponds is pretty shallow, probably less than a meter and a half. The water is fairly clear and there is some vegetation growing in the center of it. It resembles pine needle branches and is quite green. I wanted to take a picture of a sample of it but couldn't talk my wife into going in to get a sample. I asked her if Pla Nin would eat it and she just gave me that who knows look. Will those vegetarian fish eat most plants?

Pla Nin will eat duck-weed faster than you can grow them, but I'm not sure about plants, Macan will be the on to ask about that.

Tilapia.

[Gary A]

One of my ponds is pretty shallow, probably less than a meter and a half. The water is fairly clear and there is some vegetation growing in the center of it. It resembles pine needle branches and is quite green. I wanted to take a picture of a sample of it but couldn't talk my wife into going in to get a sample. I asked her if Pla Nin would eat it and she just gave me that who knows look. Will those vegetarian fish eat most plants?

Pla Nin will eat duck-weed faster than you can grow them, but I'm not sure about plants, Macan will be the on to ask about that.

Tilapia.

It's not duckweed for sure. I once bought some plants for my aquarium that resemble what is growing. After thinking about it, those plants didn't last very long because my aquarium fish ate them all. Maybe the only way to know for sure is to buy some pla nin and see what happens. The plants grow from the bottom of the pond and have nothing that looks like leaves. More like pine needles. They do not come above the surface.

[frikkiedeboer]

One of my ponds is pretty shallow, probably less than a meter and a half. The water is fairly clear and there is some vegetation growing in the center of it. It resembles pine needle branches and is quite green. I wanted to take a picture of a sample of it but couldn't talk my wife into going in to get a sample. I asked her if Pla Nin would eat it and she just gave me that who knows look. Will those vegetarian fish eat most plants?

Pla Nin will eat duck-weed faster than you can grow them, but I'm not sure about plants, Macan will be the on to ask about that.

Tilapia.

It's not duckweed for sure. I once bought some plants for my aquarium that resemble what is growing. After thinking about it, those plants didn't last very long because my aquarium fish ate them all. Maybe the only way to know for sure is to buy some pla nin and see what happens. The plants grow from the bottom of the pond and have nothing that looks like leaves. More like pine needles. They do not come above the surface.

i think the stuff you are talking about is hydrilla. i used a pond-full of this stuff as part of my biofilter. it is very fast growing given the right conditions. my neighbour used to come and collect sacks full of the stuff to feed his pla-nin, and they disposed of it very fast. dont know if it is any good as a feed for tilapia, but if it is the same stuff, yes, the fish eat it. it does seem to act as a home to a lot of zooplankton and water insects, which could be good. your pondwater clarity is probably due to the plant. it probably absorbs all the nutrients, and prevents sunlight so there is not enough for algae to thrive.

[Gary A]

Thanks frikkiedeboer. That's what it looks like. As soon as the fish seller comes around I will buy a bag or two of pla nin and see if they grow in the pond. We have a pickup truck that comes around and sells bags of different kinds of fish. The pla nin are usually 5 or 6 CM long. This pond is less than a kilometer away from our house so maybe the fish thieves will stay away. I have taken out most of the brush and small trees around the pond so it can now easily be seen from the road.