Police: 3 killed, 9 wounded in attack at Planned Parenthood

[Seastallion]

It is 2, that is two links, and your reaction is exactely what I expected. Ahem, nice right wing racist bullshit advo. you posted there, got that off what racist site?...lol. Dawg whistle, dawg whistle.

Well, I read the second one and it is as idiotic as the first.

You do realize that since 1993 there have only been a total of eight (8) murder victims at abortion clinics in the US?

IF, and it is still IF, these murders were intended to be abortion clinic employees the death toll at abortion clinics for the past 22 years would be a grand total of 11.

Hardly a pattern here.

Many ISIS gladiators commit that many before breakfast daily.

PS: Not trying to be the spelling police, but "dawg" is actually spelled "dog". At least in the adult world.

"You do realize that since 1993 there have only been a total of eight (8) murder victims at abortion clinics in the US?"

Oh just eight (8) people killed since 1993 by a persons christian values. That's okay then. How many need to be killed before you think 'Oh, this is getting a little over the top' chuckd? 100, 200 or a 1000. Just wondering where right wingers draw the line on christian terrorism.

Oh, one is too many. Eight (so far) in the last 22 years is hardly an epidemic. Beat your chest and rend your hair and it is still a total of eight (so far).

You secular progressive liberals will do anything to paint Christianity in a bad light. Your obvious insecurities are on display.

So numbers of victims DO count towards the evilness of whoever is doing the killing?

[Lopchan]

I don't know why so many are jumping on Seastallion. If anybody had read something other than TV CSI or the booze pricesbehind the bar, through the bottom of a near empty glass they'd know there has been a huge backlash against PP from the Christian fundys over the last few months. The fact that many fundys are armed and members of survivalist / militia groups gives credence to his first impression which I also share. As soon as I read it I cringed because if it is a fundy, the rest of we Christians are dragged into it.

[Seastallion]

It is 2, that is two links, and your reaction is exactely what I expected. Ahem, nice right wing racist bullshit advo. you posted there, got that off what racist site?...lol. Dawg whistle, dawg whistle.

Well, I read the second one and it is as idiotic as the first.

You do realize that since 1993 there have only been a total of eight (8) murder victims at abortion clinics in the US?

IF, and it is still IF, these murders were intended to be abortion clinic employees the death toll at abortion clinics for the past 22 years would be a grand total of 11.

Hardly a pattern here.

Many ISIS gladiators commit that many before breakfast daily.

PS: Not trying to be the spelling police, but "dawg" is actually spelled "dog". At least in the adult world.

"You do realize that since 1993 there have only been a total of eight (8) murder victims at abortion clinics in the US?"

Oh just eight (8) people killed since 1993 by a persons christian values. That's okay then. How many need to be killed before you think 'Oh, this is getting a little over the top' chuckd? 100, 200 or a 1000. Just wondering where right wingers draw the line on christian terrorism.

Oh, one is too many. Eight (so far) in the last 22 years is hardly an epidemic. Beat your chest and rend your hair and it is still a total of eight (so far).

You secular progressive liberals will do anything to paint Christianity in a bad light. Your obvious insecurities are on display.

Edit in:

Just read that he began shooting in the shopping mall parking lot. He then entered the PP building and started shooting from the building to the outside world.

Could it be he never had a grudge against PP?

Could it be he was simply using their facility as the nearest cover he could get to?

Could it be he is not a Christian?

Could it be he is actually a Muslim that hasn't bothered to change his name?

Or could it be he is simply a loner spaced out on medications that decided to go shoot some people.

Lots of questions but one more could be...Am I the only one that has Google?

Valid questions, all. Even considering them, tentative first impressions of a Christian terrorist remain plausible.

Your fifth question about the loner scenario, spaced out on medications (or dogma, to be fair), could apply to other violent actions elsewhere in the world.

Do Muslim "spaced out on whatever" terrorists get the same consideration?

[SgtRock]

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colorado (AP) — A gunman who police say staged a deadly attack on a Planned Parenthood clinic was a recluse who stashed food in the woods, avoided eye contact, warned neighbors about government spying and passed out anti-Obama pamphlets, those who knew him said.

Just a plain old, everyday lunatic after all.

[sgtsabai]

It appears some of you failed to read attrayant's post which said in part, "Colorado shooter politically motivated, said "no more baby parts" after attacking Planned Parenthood.

"No more baby parts" is a clear reference to a deceptively-edited video released by the Center for Medical Progress, a "pro-life" group. I have to put "pro-life" in scare quotes now, since their efforts have created fuel for domestic terrorism that has now resulted in several deaths."

Whether "christian" or not, many of those claiming to be "christian" are anything but, the guy was a right wingnut clearly influenced by the hate propaganda vomited out by the right wingnut sites, you know like faux (not the) news etc. Old white men trying to hang on their imagined way of life and power.

Some might want to read from PP what they do. I guess providing cancer screening, birth control, std testing and health insurance is immoral, well to right wingnuts maybe.

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.

[up2u2]

"You do realize that since 1993 there have only been a total of eight (8) murder victims at abortion clinics in the US?"

Oh just eight (8) people killed since 1993 by a persons christian values. That's okay then. How many need to be killed before you think 'Oh, this is getting a little over the top' chuckd? 100, 200 or a 1000. Just wondering where right wingers draw the line on christian terrorism.

Oh, one is too many. Eight (so far) in the last 22 years is hardly an epidemic. Beat your chest and rend your hair and it is still a total of eight (so far).

You secular progressive liberals will do anything to paint Christianity in a bad light. Your obvious insecurities are on display.

Edit in:

Just read that he began shooting in the shopping mall parking lot. He then entered the PP building and started shooting from the building to the outside world.

Could it be he never had a grudge against PP?

Could it be he was simply using their facility as the nearest cover he could get to?

Could it be he is not a Christian?

Could it be he is actually a Muslim that hasn't bothered to change his name?

Or could it be he is simply a loner spaced out on medications that decided to go shoot some people.

Lots of questions but one more could be...Am I the only one that has Google?

"You secular progressive liberals will do anything to paint Christianity in a bad light. Your obvious insecurities are on display"

I don't have to do anything to paint christianity in a bad light. Reports indicate this guy was your common garden variety right wing religious extremist nutter. Out to enforce his archaic religious views by killing people. Maybe America needs less of him and more secular progressive liberals.

I am quite secure in my position on abortion. None of which involve using a gun to kill people who have a differing position to me.

[up-country_sinclair]

Why can't some posters just say/type these three words?

Radical Christian Terrorism

By the way, it's amusing to watch them display such obvious hypocrisy on this thread.

"Oh, let's not rush to judgement."

"Maybe it's just a coincidence that it happened at a PP clinic."

Etc...

[Pinot]

"And there have only been 11 murders..." (Only 11? Wow. And the constant harassment of the clinics patients.)

"And they deserved it because they were harvesting baby parts..." (That nonsense keeps getting repeated and repeated. Thank you Ms Fiorino.)

"And dead babies, dead babies, dead babies..." (Live babies can suck it.)

"And what about the black kids..." (I'm completely lost in that tangent)

And my favorite so far, "You secular progressive liberals will do anything to paint Christianity in a bad light." Huh?

[chuckd]

"And there have only been 11 murders..." (Only 11? Wow. And the constant harassment of the clinics patients.)

"And they deserved it because they were harvesting baby parts..." (That nonsense keeps getting repeated and repeated. Thank you Ms Fiorino.)

"And dead babies, dead babies, dead babies..." (Live babies can suck it.)

"And what about the black kids..." (I'm completely lost in that tangent)

And my favorite so far, "You secular progressive liberals will do anything to paint Christianity in a bad light." Huh?

1. '"And there have only been 11 murders..." (Only 11? Wow. And the constant harassment of the clinics patients.)

Yep, only 11 in 22 years. There will probably be more citizens killed this year due to road rage than that. If you have never been harassed you have led a very sheltered life. You seem to have survived it.

2. ""And they deserved it because they were harvesting baby parts..." (That nonsense keeps getting repeated and repeated. Thank you Ms Fiorino.)"

As the Planned Parenthood doctor said, as she munched her crisp salad and drank wine..."I've always wanted a Lamborghini."

3. ""And what about the black kids..." (I'm completely lost in that tangent)"

It isn't particularly complicated. Blacks in the US represent some 13% of the population yet they represent some 35% of the abortions. If the Democrats weren't so brain dead they might realize that Planned Parenthood killed over 114,000 potential future votes in 2014 alone...and this has been going on for years.

I hope this clears some of the cobwebs from your head. Cheers

[spidermike007]

From the report, it seems as if the gunman was quite adept.

First impression is of a Christian fundamentalist. So of course this is not terrorism.

Hopefully, the gunman will be a Muslim, so that terrorism and Islam can be blamed.

I think the regressive left have probably got their exception to the rule here. Breivik was of course labeled a Christianist, though by his own admission his nominal Christianity had nothing to do with his motive.

It is telling to see how the race to make political capital out of this trumps all other considerations. RIP the deceased and condolences to their families.

The regressive left. Funny man. And this man did not represent the regressive right? What ever happened to dialogue? It is one thing to disagree with the right to have an abortion, but when you are part of the right to life movement, and you slaughter innocent people, do you think perhaps a line has been crossed? I consider myself neither a democrat nor a republican. Frankly, I think both parties and both movements are morally bankrupt. But, when hate mongers like Trump and Cruz are out there whipping their devotees up into a frenzy, things like this are bound to happen. Stupid is as stupid does.

The only label that fits here is Conservative Christian Terrorist.

Edited November 29, 2015 by spidermike007

[sgtsabai]

and from chuckd we hear dawg whistle yet again, have something against black people? Ever thought because poor black and white don't always have access to the care, i.e. birth control, which the right wingnuts are trying to deny to all, they might just need a health care facility to take care of an unwanted pregnancy? Do you really thing all those D&C's white more affluent women have aren't abortions? If so you need a little time in the real world. BTW a good friend of mines wife had to have an abortion here in Thailand a few years ago because the baby would not have survived, would you deny her that right? Eugenics my ass! You and all the right wingnuts have no right to tell a woman what to do with her life, her body or any damn thing else, none, nada, zip, zero.

[sgtsabai]

pardon, missed the thing, think.

[geriatrickid]

It is 2, that is two links, and your reaction is exactely what I expected. Ahem, nice right wing racist bullshit advo. you posted there, got that off what racist site?...lol. Dawg whistle, dawg whistle.

Well, I read the second one and it is as idiotic as the first.

You do realize that since 1993 there have only been a total of eight (8) murder victims at abortion clinics in the US?

IF, and it is still IF, these murders were intended to be abortion clinic employees the death toll at abortion clinics for the past 22 years would be a grand total of 11.

Hardly a pattern here.

Many ISIS gladiators commit that many before breakfast daily.

PS: Not trying to be the spelling police, but "dawg" is actually spelled "dog". At least in the adult world.

"You do realize that since 1993 there have only been a total of eight (8) murder victims at abortion clinics in the US?"

Oh just eight (8) people killed since 1993 by a persons christian values. That's okay then. How many need to be killed before you think 'Oh, this is getting a little over the top' chuckd? 100, 200 or a 1000. Just wondering where right wingers draw the line on christian terrorism.

You missed his point. Far too much political rhetoric and hyperbole attaches to these events. This was not a terrorist event. It fits the law & order agenda to claim it as such because it can justify a greater police presence. It fits social activists' agenda because they can make this event bigger than it is. What we have here was a mentally ill man's rampage. The odd behavior, the idiotic obsession with President Obama and lifestyle all demonstrate that the killer was deranged. There is no evidence of a conspiracy or involvement by others. Yes, the people who stand outside the clinic protesting have some moral culpability if they attempted to manipulate others in protest, but the fact remains that those opposed to the clinic had every right to protest. This was a hate crime, nothing more.

Obviously, this shooting was wrong. However the focus should be on how a mentally deranged man able to own firearms and why the interest groups opposed to the family planning and rudimentary health care provided by Planned Parenthood are not held morally accountable for their irresponsible rhetoric and exaggerated claims. Claiming terrorism and taking sides is a way of avoiding the real issues. The reality is that many people who are called right wingers support Planned Parenthood and there are some social activists opposed because they claim Planned Parenthood targets the poor and tries to prevent their numbers from increasing.

What I find depressing, is that the people opposed to Planned Parenthood don't recognize that the organization has done far more to prevent abortions than the people standing outside its clinics. 80% of the visits to the clinics are for pregnancy prevention. Apparently birth control still is condemned by some people. Sex education is still taboo. PP is a the major provider of HIV care, and reproductive organ cancer screening. The protestors never offer an alternative option for a poor person to be screened for uterine cancer or breast cancer. They never ever provide the free or subsidized health services.

[chuckd]

and from chuckd we hear dawg whistle yet again, have something against black people? Ever thought because poor black and white don't always have access to the care, i.e. birth control, which the right wingnuts are trying to deny to all, they might just need a health care facility to take care of an unwanted pregnancy? Do you really thing all those D&C's white more affluent women have aren't abortions? If so you need a little time in the real world. BTW a good friend of mines wife had to have an abortion here in Thailand a few years ago because the baby would not have survived, would you deny her that right? Eugenics my ass! You and all the right wingnuts have no right to tell a woman what to do with her life, her body or any damn thing else, none, nada, zip, zero.

I hate to break your little bubble of insane babble, but I have posted my views on abortion more times than I care to count.

What I have always said is abortion is acceptable to me if the life of the baby or mother are in question, rape or incest involvement or any other valid medical reasons. I strongly object to late term abortions with beating hearts and a valid human life in process.

My two children from a previous marriage are adopted. I often think what a tragedy it would have been for their biological mothers to have had abortions performed rather than bear the children and put them up for adoption.

Don't expect any more answers from me. Frankly, you;re not worth the time.

[Pinot]

and from chuckd we hear dawg whistle yet again, have something against black people? Ever thought because poor black and white don't always have access to the care, i.e. birth control, which the right wingnuts are trying to deny to all, they might just need a health care facility to take care of an unwanted pregnancy? Do you really thing all those D&C's white more affluent women have aren't abortions? If so you need a little time in the real world. BTW a good friend of mines wife had to have an abortion here in Thailand a few years ago because the baby would not have survived, would you deny her that right? Eugenics my ass! You and all the right wingnuts have no right to tell a woman what to do with her life, her body or any damn thing else, none, nada, zip, zero.

I hate to break your little bubble of insane babble, but I have posted my views on abortion more times than I care to count.

What I have always said is abortion is acceptable to me if the life of the baby or mother are in question, rape or incest involvement or any other valid medical reasons. I strongly object to late term abortions with beating hearts and a valid human life in process.

My two children from a previous marriage are adopted. I often think what a tragedy it would have been for their biological mothers to have had abortions performed rather than bear the children and put them up for adoption.

Don't expect any more answers from me. Frankly, you;re not worth the time.

Couple of things:

1. Abortion is legal

2. See #1

Your anti-abortion position is the Republican "light" position, rape and incest. That position would eliminate you as a possible candidate for most Republicans. If by some weird bizzaro event a Republican was elected President, women right to choose would be taken away, they would still get abortions, just that they would have to return to the back alley butchers, like they used to.

Fetuses have no standing in law. It was decided long ago.

What a woman decides to do with her body, is not your concern. It's no one in wingnuttia's business but the woman's. Thank god it's going to stay that way. I know it's a difficult concept for the right to understand, the difference between an abortion and murder.

Murder has occurred at a PP clinic. It's an act of domestic terrorism.

What's your position on murder? Justifiable? See #1

[up2u2]

Couple of things:

1. Abortion is legal

2. See #1

Your anti-abortion position is the Republican "light" position, rape and incest. That position would eliminate you as a possible candidate for most Republicans. If by some weird bizzaro event a Republican was elected President, women right to choose would be taken away, they would still get abortions, just that they would have to return to the back alley butchers, like they used to.

Fetuses have no standing in law. It was decided long ago.

What a woman decides to do with her body, is not your concern. It's no one in wingnuttia's business but the woman's. Thank god it's going to stay that way. I know it's a difficult concept for the right to understand, the difference between an abortion and murder.

Murder has occurred at a PP clinic. It's an act of domestic terrorism.

What's your position on murder? Justifiable? See #1

Amen Pinot.

It is the woman's and her health care professionals business. Once the child is born it then becomes a communities business to care and support and protect that child. Until then keep your nose out and your religious beliefs to yourself.

[notmyself]

[chuckd]

I see all the very tolerant secular progressive liberals are showing their tolerant side...by being intolerant to differing opinions.

Business as usual from that side of the aisle.

@ Pinot:

In response to your latest idiocy. I am against murder except in special circumstances.

[notmyself]

I'm intolerant of intolerance.

[up2u2]

Same here notmyself. I am intolerant of intolerance. The video makes a good point why aren't republicans and right wingers screaming out for churches to be closed down and christians put on a database and monitored by the state? Seems christian terrorists are a okay.

[notmyself]

Seems christian terrorists are a okay.

Christian terrorism does not exist.... seemingly.

[chuckd]

Here's a little data for those keeping score.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Total deaths caused by alleged Islamic terrorism worldwide (10/31/2015 through 11/29/2015) a period of 30 days.

637 deaths

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Total deaths caused by alleged Christian terrorism worldwide (1/1/2015 through 11/30/2015) a period of 11 months/

3 deaths (unproven)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_2015

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

Edited November 30, 2015 by chuckd

[Pinot]

I see all the very tolerant secular progressive liberals are showing their tolerant side...by being intolerant to differing opinions.

Business as usual from that side of the aisle.

@ Pinot:

In response to your latest idiocy. I am against murder except in special circumstances.

Special circumstances like at abortion clinics. The wingnuts get to decide what the special circumstances are, God tells em.

You people and your special circumstances.

Yeah, atheists are known for their intolerance. I'm not intolerant to different opinions. I'm intolerant to nonsense. Take climate change for example, can't tolerate any opinion that says it ain't happening. Or evolution, can't tolerate anyone who thinks the world is 7000 years old. Or human rights, can't tolerate refugee xenophobia. You get the idea. All the crazy wingnut positions...can't tolerate them. It's not the other side of the aisle, it's the other side of accepted, scientifically proven knowledge. Like the opposite of stuff Ben Carson says.

Religion? Don't care. Want to believe in invisible people...up to you. The world would be a better place without god and the idolatry.

Trying to put a number on the amount of people killed in the name of Christ, estimates run between 10 and 25 million. Hard number to pin down. Muslims are pikers when it comes to murdering infidels.

So who are getting abortions anyway? Turns out, it's Christians.

New Research conducted by Christian research group LifeWay at the behest of pro-life group Care Net, paints a very different picture of those seeking abortions than you might imagine. The study interviewed 1,038 women who had received an abortion. 70 percent of these women were Christian. Those who subscribe to these beliefs also happen to be some of the most fervent against Planned Parenthood and other abortion providers.

Hypocrites don't care about facts or logic. They care about imposing their will on others to the point that religious women are scared to even seek guidance from their own church.

Special circumstances, huh?

[chuckd]

[stevenl]

I see all the very tolerant secular progressive liberals are showing their tolerant side...by being intolerant to differing opinions.

Business as usual from that side of the aisle.

@ Pinot:

In response to your latest idiocy. I am against murder except in special circumstances.

So you are intolerant of people making their own choices, but the people criticizing that opinion are intolerant?

That's about as twisted reasoning as can be.

Edited November 30, 2015 by stevenl

[Seastallion]

Joshua Feuerstein. As a terrorist inciting violence against PP, he doesn't have a very Christian-sounding name.

[Seastallion]

Here's a little data for those keeping score.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Total deaths caused by alleged Islamic terrorism worldwide (10/31/2015 through 11/29/2015) a period of 30 days.

637 deaths

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Total deaths caused by alleged Christian terrorism worldwide (1/1/2015 through 11/30/2015) a period of 11 months/

3 deaths (unproven)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_2015

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

So, the numbers of deaths DO count towards the total "evilness score"?

[Linky]

Here's a little data for those keeping score.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Total deaths caused by alleged Islamic terrorism worldwide (10/31/2015 through 11/29/2015) a period of 30 days.

637 deaths

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Total deaths caused by alleged Christian terrorism worldwide (1/1/2015 through 11/30/2015) a period of 11 months/

3 deaths (unproven)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_2015

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

So, the numbers of deaths DO count towards the total "evilness score"?

Seems so.

But why count worldwide. Surely it should be stats from what occurs within the US.

[arjunadawn]

Same here notmyself. I am intolerant of intolerance. The video makes a good point why aren't republicans and right wingers screaming out for churches to be closed down and christians put on a database and monitored by the state? Seems christian terrorists are a okay.

I've got no use for either, or anyone who kills in the name of Self or God or ideology or such. Pretty much one reason I can think of to kill- the preservation of life, limb, family, property, and the protection of those unable to protect themselves (This last point is the crazed part where others assign themselves as wardens of the unborn. Most normal people do not). What is offered seems a valid question, but only at first glance. Why does there seem to be a double standard (a fair enough question)?

Because even though religious terrorists of any ilk share the same absurd authority there is a quantitative difference, not qualitative- roughly 27,000 terror attacks by muslim jihadis since 9/11 pose an existential threat to civilization across the globe. Christians are not walking across the world setting it on fire in the modern era, nor are they acting independent and collectively to overthrow governments and install a christian theocracy. Indeed, Christians are widely persecuted throughout the world these days. So, the same mechanism, different threat analysis.