Turkish president says wishes plane downing had not happened

[khunken]

AWful lot of propaganda in this thread so far.

First Syria was not a failed state before major hostilities started and were supported by the west, Saudi & Qatar. It still isn't, although that seems to be the strategy of the US & others and Assad's is still the only legitimate government of the country with UN representation.

Second I don't for one minute believe the conflicting statements from Turkey about '10 warnings in 5 minutes' when it is pretty obvious that the Russian jet was, at worst seconds over Turkish airspace &, at best not there at all.

Third Turkey has been playing a two-faced game with ISIS, the Kurds and even with it's own citizens - journalists arrested for reporting on Turkish direct support to ISIS. Turkey's attitude to the Kurds is very close to genocidal and while the Kurds, supported by the US, have been taking the war to the ISIS in Iraq, the Kurds are not fighting Assad.

Fourth it is a lie that Russia is 'only' attacking the so-called 'good' rebels (if there are any deserving that term). It is obvious that Russia is attacking all anti-Assad militias including ISIS & Al-Nusra as the bombing of the Russian airliner reflected ISIS's view of Russian activities.

Fifth, up to now the western anti-ISIS efforts have been half-hearted at most with all sorts of military & government officials producing the propaganda & lies that the western press, with few exceptions, report without question. The notion of a failed state in Syria, following the Libyan 'model', is appealing to the US as it appeals to Israel who regards ISIS as more 'friendly' than Assad, Iran & other who support him.

Sixth, It is almost impossible to identify who are the bad guys & who are the good ones with so many being absorbed by ISIS both voluntarily & by force. The below the radar support for some groups by the CIA & Neocons in the US & right-wing 'think tanks' in the UK has not helped & only enhanced the regime change scenario with failed state written all over it afterwards.

Lastly Russia, despite stepping on many toes has at least been honest about it's role. Something that can't be said about western, Turkish & Saudi intervention.

[schlog]

Turkish president says wishes plane downing had not happened

Hindsight and reflection are two wonderful abilities.

There are also a few points that should also be taken into consideration.

1. Whether you agree or not Assad is the current ruler of Syria. He has invited Russia into Syria to assist him against a conglomerate of Islamic groups who are trying to depose him.

2. Russia, initially had no real interest in IS. They only came into Russian sights after the downing of the plane on the Sinai peninsula.

The West would do well to step back and let Russia deal with this.

I think the 400 civilians killed by Russian airstrikes might argue with this. Along with probably a majority of the population who wants Assad gone. It's a failed state and Assad is the reason why. Blame normally lies at the top.

The documents were written by the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency and answer nearly all questions:

… there is the possibility of establishing a declared or undeclared Salafist Principality in eastern Syria (Hasaka and Der Zor), and this is exactly what the supporting powers to the opposition want, in order to isolate the Syrian regime ….

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/05/newly-declassified-u-s-government-documents-the-west-supported-the-creation-of-isis.html

[JemJem]

It looks like Putin has checkmated Erdogan, with all those various economic sanctions

[retarius]

Yep. I am sure all of the coalition aircraft that now get to hear the sound of Russian radar lock over Syria are non too happy with him.

I think the first lock on a coalition plane with a registered flight plan will result in a huge backlash. It was predicted Russia's involvement in Syria would lead to problems. And it sure has. Nothing good has come out of their involvement, other than bombing anti-ISIS groups and innocent civilians.

I was going to pass this but it bugs me a bit. Why do you say nothing good has come of it? Haven't they opened your eyes to ISIS oil dealing and funding from Turkey, which the US ignored letting them carry on? I'd say that bombing convoys of trucks carrying oil, the proceeds of which are used to fund terror attacks, including those in Paris, is a good thing to have come out of Russian involvement, wouldn't you? Have you followed this war at all...I mean on the maps...what is actually going on? Well Russia is hitting the West of Syria driving out all opposition to Assad be it is, FSA or Turkmen....he's driving them out of Latakia, Damascus, Homs, Hama, and Dara'a provinces....and they are gunning for Aleppo, which if they succeed will seal of the border with Turkey which will be controlled by Syria and Kurds. This will cut off all weapons to IS in the rest of Syria, and frightens the life out of Egogan who has nightmares about Kurds living safely.

I think you should perhaps read a bit more.

[retarius]

The US and NATO's involvement in the middle east is what led to Russia's involvement.

Russia's involvement is legal under intl law.

Not one for recognizing facts are you?

Russia's involvement is to support the Assad regime.

Your claim that Russia's involvement under international law is at best, quite questionable. You certainly ignored a few facts didn't you? In order for the Russian presence to be "legal" it would have needed the benefit of a UN resolution or a "legal" request for assistance from the legitimate government of Syria. Here's where your claim falls apart;

- Multiple attempts to impose a cooling off period and an arms embargo were subject to a Russian Security Council veto.

- An effort was made to restrict the presence of foreign ground forces. This would have stopped Hizbollah and Iran from sending thousands of troops. Again, Russia threatened to use its veto.

- There are approx. 7 million refugees and displaced persons due to the Syrian conflict with 2 million+ in Turkey. This certainly would give rise to the legal basis to sponsor a UN resolution allowing intervention. Again Russia has blocked international agreement because it insists that its proxy armies from Iran and the Palestinian occupational militia of Hizbollah based in Lebanon who support Assad, be allowed to participate.

- The Assad government is no longer the legitimate government of Syria. Assad refuses to allow an election and his country is gripped by civil war. The majority of the population opposes him and he clings to power only because Hizbollah and Iran now have thousands of their personnel in Iran and because Russia is propping him up.

Erdogan may be a slimy quasi despot, but his airforce had every legal right to protect Turkish airspace, particularly when Russia was bombing non ISIL ethnic Turkmen. Syrian artillery has shelled Turkish villages in the past and Turkey refrained from retaliating. The Russian presence was just pissing on the Turks. The Russians thought they could keep bullying and they found out the hard way that some people with balls push back

However much you might not like it the facts is absolutely clear from an international law standpoint. The UN approved legitimate government with a seat in the UN is the Assad regime. It is Assad whether you like it or not. Assad is perfectly within his rights to invite any power he likes to come to his country and help him with his military problems, and it doesn't need any UN mandate.

The opposition are not the legitimate rulers of Syria (thank god, a bunch of liver eating savages) and are unable to invite foreign powers to help them unless there is a UN mandate....and the recent 2499 resolution does NOT provide that mandate...

These are the indisputable facts...any other interpretation is bogus. Russia and Iran are legally in Syria as guests of Assad; the US and the so-called "coalition" that have spent the last 18 months achieving absolutely nothing against IS are in Syrian illegally, but there is no one to enforce the law. The strong do what they will; the weak bear what they must. Why do you think Putin, in charge of a pitiful economy, smaller than US, France, Germany, Italy pulls so much weight...he is strong and backed up by 2000 odd nukes....he's strong enough not to be muscled by US but not strong enough to enforce the law.

Tell me who apart from Russia has called for free and fair elections in Syria? US...no way man, Assad might win! UK no of course not, Assad might win....and so on...these folks want a pliant dictator who will build a pipeline to reduce EU dependence on Russian energy...Russia's ally, Syria blocked the pipeline and so he had to go for thwarting the will of the US. You might want to know that the US outsourced part of its War on Terror torture program to Assad when they were friends, but make a wrong move and you are a "brutal dictator".

And you have no idea whether a majority of Syrians support Assad or not...do you think Putin would call for elections if he wasn't sure of winning? Assad's heartland in the west of Syria is where most of the people live, and where a vast number of internal refugees went to seek safety from the brutality of the FSA and IS. There are supposedly 11 million refugees....2 million are supposed to be in Turkey, and a quarter million in EU....where are the rest? They are still in Syria but have migrated to the Assad region, would they have gone there if they thought Assad was worse than IS or the FSA? No they wouldn't.

Now Egogan has made his play...it was shocking but irrelevant, and now his hopes of annexing a part of north western Syria for the Turkomen have been shredded and he countrymen have lost a substantial amount of business, including his son, the oil baron. Egogan is a loser, a maverick that has seen the best of his days...it's downhill for him from hereon in. NATO's support for him was pitiful, and you know he was threatened with being kicked out of NATO if he does anything so stupid again.

[Chicog]

It seems the body of the dead pilot is now in Turkey and due to be returned to Russia.

[Lukecan]

Erdogans son is not in the oil business thats pure BS. His son is in the ship business, has a fleet of ships transporting stuff. It's more lucrative than oil, especially at these times when its at its 15 year lows.

[khunken]

The US and NATO's involvement in the middle east is what led to Russia's involvement.

Russia's involvement is legal under intl law.

Not one for recognizing facts are you?

Russia's involvement is to support the Assad regime.

Your claim that Russia's involvement under international law is at best, quite questionable. You certainly ignored a few facts didn't you? In order for the Russian presence to be "legal" it would have needed the benefit of a UN resolution or a "legal" request for assistance from the legitimate government of Syria. Here's where your claim falls apart;

- Multiple attempts to impose a cooling off period and an arms embargo were subject to a Russian Security Council veto.

- An effort was made to restrict the presence of foreign ground forces. This would have stopped Hizbollah and Iran from sending thousands of troops. Again, Russia threatened to use its veto.

- There are approx. 7 million refugees and displaced persons due to the Syrian conflict with 2 million+ in Turkey. This certainly would give rise to the legal basis to sponsor a UN resolution allowing intervention. Again Russia has blocked international agreement because it insists that its proxy armies from Iran and the Palestinian occupational militia of Hizbollah based in Lebanon who support Assad, be allowed to participate.

- The Assad government is no longer the legitimate government of Syria. Assad refuses to allow an election and his country is gripped by civil war. The majority of the population opposes him and he clings to power only because Hizbollah and Iran now have thousands of their personnel in Iran and because Russia is propping him up.

Erdogan may be a slimy quasi despot, but his airforce had every legal right to protect Turkish airspace, particularly when Russia was bombing non ISIL ethnic Turkmen. Syrian artillery has shelled Turkish villages in the past and Turkey refrained from retaliating. The Russian presence was just pissing on the Turks. The Russians thought they could keep bullying and they found out the hard way that some people with balls push back

However much you might not like it the facts is absolutely clear from an international law standpoint. The UN approved legitimate government with a seat in the UN is the Assad regime. It is Assad whether you like it or not. Assad is perfectly within his rights to invite any power he likes to come to his country and help him with his military problems, and it doesn't need any UN mandate.

The opposition are not the legitimate rulers of Syria (thank god, a bunch of liver eating savages) and are unable to invite foreign powers to help them unless there is a UN mandate....and the recent 2499 resolution does NOT provide that mandate...

These are the indisputable facts...any other interpretation is bogus. Russia and Iran are legally in Syria as guests of Assad; the US and the so-called "coalition" that have spent the last 18 months achieving absolutely nothing against IS are in Syrian illegally, but there is no one to enforce the law. The strong do what they will; the weak bear what they must. Why do you think Putin, in charge of a pitiful economy, smaller than US, France, Germany, Italy pulls so much weight...he is strong and backed up by 2000 odd nukes....he's strong enough not to be muscled by US but not strong enough to enforce the law.

Tell me who apart from Russia has called for free and fair elections in Syria? US...no way man, Assad might win! UK no of course not, Assad might win....and so on...these folks want a pliant dictator who will build a pipeline to reduce EU dependence on Russian energy...Russia's ally, Syria blocked the pipeline and so he had to go for thwarting the will of the US. You might want to know that the US outsourced part of its War on Terror torture program to Assad when they were friends, but make a wrong move and you are a "brutal dictator".

And you have no idea whether a majority of Syrians support Assad or not...do you think Putin would call for elections if he wasn't sure of winning? Assad's heartland in the west of Syria is where most of the people live, and where a vast number of internal refugees went to seek safety from the brutality of the FSA and IS. There are supposedly 11 million refugees....2 million are supposed to be in Turkey, and a quarter million in EU....where are the rest? They are still in Syria but have migrated to the Assad region, would they have gone there if they thought Assad was worse than IS or the FSA? No they wouldn't.

Now Egogan has made his play...it was shocking but irrelevant, and now his hopes of annexing a part of north western Syria for the Turkomen have been shredded and he countrymen have lost a substantial amount of business, including his son, the oil baron. Egogan is a loser, a maverick that has seen the best of his days...it's downhill for him from hereon in. NATO's support for him was pitiful, and you know he was threatened with being kicked out of NATO if he does anything so stupid again.

Agree with most of what you write.

I would add that there are around another 1.5 million refugees in Jordan & Lebanon. I must say it's unlikely that Assad would win a free and fair election given that the majority of Syrians are Sunni and part of the problem is a Sunni vs Shia (including Alawite, Christian & Druze) which is the real reason Saudi & Qatar are so involved.

But with all the ultra Islamist militias involved it's highly unlikely that a free election could be held in the near future.

But let's not forget that the western hypocrites tried & failed to get a NATO enforced 'no-fly zone' which Russia & China vetoed. That was an attempt to apply the Libyan failed-state 'model' to Syria. The 'no-fly zone' was a tissue of lies as it actively supported the removal of Ghadaffi.

[FritsSikkink]

Erdogans son is not in the oil business thats pure BS. His son is in the ship business, has a fleet of ships transporting stuff. It's more lucrative than oil, especially at these times when its at its 15 year lows.

transporting oil

[khunken]

Erdogans son is not in the oil business thats pure BS. His son is in the ship business, has a fleet of ships transporting stuff. It's more lucrative than oil, especially at these times when its at its 15 year lows.

There are numerous Google links to reports that his son is involved in the oil business including one that he recently purchased an oil tanker.

I would say that the probability is that he's dealing with Daesh left, right & centre. Your take on oil dealing is way off as there's plenty of profit to be made by buying oil cheaply (e.g. $25 a barrel) and selling it on world markets or using it to replace oil costing $40 a barrel.

Right now the legal shipping business is in the doldrums with rates the lowest for years. Of course shipping illegal cargos is still lucrative.

[Lukecan]

Erdogans son is not in the oil business thats pure BS. His son is in the ship business, has a fleet of ships transporting stuff. It's more lucrative than oil, especially at these times when its at its 15 year lows.

There are numerous Google links to reports that his son is involved in the oil business including one that he recently purchased an oil tanker.

I would say that the probability is that he's dealing with Daesh left, right & centre. Your take on oil dealing is way off as there's plenty of profit to be made by buying oil cheaply (e.g. $25 a barrel) and selling it on world markets or using it to replace oil costing $40 a barrel.

Right now the legal shipping business is in the doldrums with rates the lowest for years. Of course shipping illegal cargos is still lucrative.

With the advent of social media, so much BS popped up that its impossible to verify most claims. There are pictures circulating of Bilal Erdogan(erdogans son) apparently with ISIS sympathizers. Well guess what? Just because a person has a beard doesn't make them an ISIS militant. The person in the photo turned out to be a owner of some kebab shop. The leftists in Turkey are using those pictures to give the impression that Erdogans son is dealing with ISIS.

[khunken]

Erdogans son is not in the oil business thats pure BS. His son is in the ship business, has a fleet of ships transporting stuff. It's more lucrative than oil, especially at these times when its at its 15 year lows.

There are numerous Google links to reports that his son is involved in the oil business including one that he recently purchased an oil tanker.

I would say that the probability is that he's dealing with Daesh left, right & centre. Your take on oil dealing is way off as there's plenty of profit to be made by buying oil cheaply (e.g. $25 a barrel) and selling it on world markets or using it to replace oil costing $40 a barrel.

Right now the legal shipping business is in the doldrums with rates the lowest for years. Of course shipping illegal cargos is still lucrative.

With the advent of social media, so much BS popped up that its impossible to verify most claims. There are pictures circulating of Bilal Erdogan(erdogans son) apparently with ISIS sympathizers. Well guess what? Just because a person has a beard doesn't make them an ISIS militant. The person in the photo turned out to be a owner of some kebab shop. The leftists in Turkey are using those pictures to give the impression that Erdogans son is dealing with ISIS.

I agree that a beard doesn't mean one is Islamic - I had one for years

The main accusation is that he's doing business with ISIS, the group that Turkey's government is definitely supporting. Making money ofter trumps ideology but arresting journalists for reporting Turkey's support is a strong sign of his father's guilt.

[Publicus]

It looks like Putin has checkmated Erdogan, with all those various economic sanctions

Putin is only killing his economy more. Cutting off his nose to spite his face.

Russian GDP is minus 5 percent this year and next year won't be any better. Putin with these 'sanctions' can hit minus 6 percent this year at the rate he's going despite there being only several weeks remaining in 2015. Probably minus 7 percent in 2016.

Turkey's economy ain't great but it is in much better shape to sustain Putin's fits of emotion and physical pain down in the nether region where the swift kick he got still hurts.

Erdogan is showing movement by saying the shootdown of the Russian jet fighter was a "sad" occurrence. Erdogan had however been unmistakably and repeatedly clear to Putin. And to Assad. That's the rub between Putin and Erdogan.

Assad can't possibly stay because too many people hate his guts to include so many Syrians, 4 million of which are refugees. Then there are the 250,000 dead Syrians.

[Scott]

Posts have been removed about Turkey's incursions into Greece and Iraq. It is not particularly relevant to this thread.

[Lukecan]

From 2000 till 2008 Russian economy grew at a rate north of 8% a year, how? Because of the commodity boom, oil went up from 30$ a barrel to 140$. Putin was seen as a hero, but he had nothing to do with the success actually.

Now oil is at 40$ a barrel and with the economic sanctions Russian economy is rapidly contracting. Economic sanctions on one of Russias main export partner is a very stupid move, while Turkey cannot diversify in the short run, it can in the middle run. Half of Russias budget comes from sales of oil and gas, and Turkey is the 2nd biggest buyer of Russian natural gas.

Europe is diversifying away from Russia too as we speak. Putin will look like a hero to Russian people in the short run, but in the long run his country is screwed unless a miracle happens. Germany will continue export state of the art high tech machinery, but Russias well being will be dependent on the price of oil and natural gas which it has no control over.

Gulf states and Saudi Arabia which are allies of Turkey might even pump more oil to bring down the prices, to make Russia suffer more.

[tumama]

I think the first lock on a coalition plane with a registered flight plan will result in a huge backlash. It was predicted Russia's involvement in Syria would lead to problems. And it sure has. Nothing good has come out of their involvement, other than bombing anti-ISIS groups and innocent civilians.

The whole problem started when U.S started meddling. Iraq and Syria were stable countries that did not have problems with fundamentalism. Now we have millions of Syrians and Iraqis displaced risking their lives trying to get to Europe, and the tax payers of Europe has to foot the bill for this insanity.

Nothing good has come of their involvement? Are you kidding? Numerous terrorists groups are on the run, and the Syrian government is retaking territory. In this month alone Russia has wiped out over a 1000 oil trucks that illegally sells oil to Turkey, effectively cutting out ISIS's main source of income. The Russians will see to it that this war ends so Syrian people can return, so that Europe won't be bogged down paying for these refugees.

And why did U.S start to target these oil shipments after the Russians? They've been bombing Syria illegally long before the Russians. Why didn't they reprimand Turkey and Saudi Arabia for arming and financing ISIS? I think the answer is obvious. For them ISIS is just a part of an end game, to get rid of Assad like they got rid of Saddam. You really ought to ask yourself, is the price worth it? I bet the relatives of the dead people in Paris or the passenger on the Russian passenger jet do not think so.

Not to mention the cesspool that Libya is right now.

Edited November 29, 2015 by tumama

[tumama]

Erdogans son is not in the oil business thats pure BS. His son is in the ship business, has a fleet of ships transporting stuff. It's more lucrative than oil, especially at these times when its at its 15 year lows.

Right, so in the attached picture, that is not Erdogan's son meeting with ISIS terrorists?

Edited November 29, 2015 by tumama

[Lukecan]

Erdogans son is not in the oil business thats pure BS. His son is in the ship business, has a fleet of ships transporting stuff. It's more lucrative than oil, especially at these times when its at its 15 year lows.

Right, so in the attached picture, that is not Erdogan's son meeting with ISIS terrorists? isis.jpg

Yep this is precisely the photo I was talking about. Those two guys right there are the owners of the joint called Cigeristan(Liveristan in English)

Their names are ali kember and ismail kember.

Below are the same guys.

This proves how dangerous social media can get.

Edited November 29, 2015 by Lukecan

[tumama]

Yep this is precisely the photo I was talking about. Those two guys right there are the owners of the joint called Cigeristan(Liveristan in English)

Their names are ali kember and ismail kember.

Below are the same guys.

This proves how dangerous social media can get.

Ok, my bad. Point taken. Although it does not rule out the ties between Turkey and ISIS. Two days ago two journalists were arrested for treason for publishing an article that Turkey arms and funds ISIS.

[Lukecan]

Yep this is precisely the photo I was talking about. Those two guys right there are the owners of the joint called Cigeristan(Liveristan in English)

Their names are ali kember and ismail kember.

Below are the same guys.

This proves how dangerous social media can get.

Ok, my bad. Point taken. Although it does not rule out the ties between Turkey and ISIS. Two days ago two journalists were arrested for treason for publishing an article that Turkey arms and funds ISIS.

Again that news is BS as well. That truck was indeed delivering arms, but not to ISIS. To the turkmen rebels. Turkmen rebels are a whole different story, they are openly supported by Turkey.

[Thorgal]

Yep this is precisely the photo I was talking about. Those two guys right there are the owners of the joint called Cigeristan(Liveristan in English)

Their names are ali kember and ismail kember.

Below are the same guys.

This proves how dangerous social media can get.

Ok, my bad. Point taken. Although it does not rule out the ties between Turkey and ISIS. Two days ago two journalists were arrested for treason for publishing an article that Turkey arms and funds ISIS.

From Iranian press: the Turkish truckload with weapons for Syrian rebels, Jihadi's, whatever you want...

Original footage from the 2 reporters arrested for spying...

http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/05/30/413393/Syria-Turkey-weapons-MIT-trucks-Erdogan-Glen

[tumama]

Again that news is BS as well. That truck was indeed delivering arms, but not to ISIS. To the turkmen rebels. Turkmen rebels are a whole different story, they are openly supported by Turkey.

Right, so why were the two Turkish journalists arrested for treason if it was all BS?

Also, do you deny that ISIS sold their oil in Turkey?

[Lukecan]

Again that news is BS as well. That truck was indeed delivering arms, but not to ISIS. To the turkmen rebels. Turkmen rebels are a whole different story, they are openly supported by Turkey.

Right, so why were the two Turkish journalists arrested for treason if it was all BS?

Also, do you deny that ISIS sold their oil in Turkey?

Because he exposed a state secret. Turkey did not admit it was helping the turkmen rebels until that incident. After that it had to admit to the world.

[tumama]

Because he exposed a state secret. Turkey did not admit it was helping the turkmen rebels until that incident. After that it had to admit to the world.

Well after a quick lookup on Wikipedia that doesn't seem to be the case:

On March 15, 2015, the official Turkmen governor of Mosul, Iraq before the ISIL took over the city, Esil Nuceyfi, recently stated and confirmed that the Turkish Special Forces Command, especially Maroon Berets and military specialists are training Turkmens both in Iraq and Syria. He reported the location of the training camps in Iraq as the Iraqi Turkmen Front and other Iraqi officials have reached on an agreement which allows the training of Turkmens by Turkey and creation of an official Turkmen Brigade under the Iraqi army which will be commanded by an Iraqi Turkmen, under the right to guarantee by the Republic of Turkey, nevertheless he didn't give out the location of Turkish camps in Syria which the Turkmens are being trained, stating that it still takes place unofficially and in a secret way.^[10][11] He added that Turkish Forces are training the Syrian Turks to protect their settlements and to join the fight with Syrian Turkmen Brigades in those secretly located camps. Nuceyfi also gave more information saying that Turkish officials have told that military supplies and weapons will be sent to Turkmens in Iraq and Syria in the near future but he isn't acquainted about the exact amount and date.

Later that day, Turkish 'officials' in Ankara, confirmed the statements of Esil Nuceyfi about the before and the positively promising future of the training of Turkmens both in Iraq and Syria

Emphasize mine.

You speak of the dangers of social media. Yet you totally disregard the dangers of fundamentalism, and the danger of supporting them for your end goals. Your ignorance is a spit in the face of all the dead people in Paris.

And you still haven't answered me about the ISIS oil trucks. Where do you figure their physical oil and subsequent oil revenue went to?

Edited November 29, 2015 by tumama

[Thorgal]

Again that news is BS as well. That truck was indeed delivering arms, but not to ISIS. To the turkmen rebels. Turkmen rebels are a whole different story, they are openly supported by Turkey.

Right, so why were the two Turkish journalists arrested for treason if it was all BS?

Also, do you deny that ISIS sold their oil in Turkey?

Because he exposed a state secret. Turkey did not admit it was helping the turkmen rebels until that incident. After that it had to admit to the world.

Talking about a state secret.

Weren't the early satellite pictures from the Russian jets on the Syrian airbase not confidential enough? They have been sent from many Western media outlets...to every fox hole on the Syrian frontlines.

I never saw such pictures of any coalition airbase.

[Lukecan]

Because he exposed a state secret. Turkey did not admit it was helping the turkmen rebels until that incident. After that it had to admit to the world.

Well after a quick lookup on Wikipedia that doesn't seem to be the case:

On March 15, 2015, the official Turkmen governor of Mosul, Iraq before the ISIL took over the city, Esil Nuceyfi, recently stated and confirmed that the Turkish Special Forces Command, especially Maroon Berets and military specialists are training Turkmens both in Iraq and Syria. He reported the location of the training camps in Iraq as the Iraqi Turkmen Front and other Iraqi officials have reached on an agreement which allows the training of Turkmens by Turkey and creation of an official Turkmen Brigade under the Iraqi army which will be commanded by an Iraqi Turkmen, under the right to guarantee by the Republic of Turkey, nevertheless he didn't give out the location of Turkish camps in Syria which the Turkmens are being trained, stating that it still takes place unofficially and in a secret way.^[10][11] He added that Turkish Forces are training the Syrian Turks to protect their settlements and to join the fight with Syrian Turkmen Brigades in those secretly located camps. Nuceyfi also gave more information saying that Turkish officials have told that military supplies and weapons will be sent to Turkmens in Iraq and Syria in the near future but he isn't acquainted about the exact amount and date.

Later that day, Turkish 'officials' in Ankara, confirmed the statements of Esil Nuceyfi about the before and the positively promising future of the training of Turkmens both in Iraq and Syria

Emphasize mine.

You speak of the dangers of social media. Yet you totally disregard the dangers of fundamentalism, and the danger of supporting them for your end goals. Your ignorance is a spit in the face of all the dead people in Paris.

And you still haven't answered me about the ISIS oil trucks. Where do you figure their physical oil and subsequent oil revenue went to?

It wasnt the turkmens who carried out the paris attacks. Everyone in that area would be considered a fundamentalist by western standards , even assad supporters and the kurds.

BTW, a new Paris is happening every single week in the middle east. Just today a russian airstrake killed 40 civilians in Idlib.

[tumama]

It wasnt the turkmens who carried out the paris attacks. Everyone in that area would be considered a fundamentalist by western standards , even assad supporters and the kurds.

BTW, a new Paris is happening every single week in the middle east. Just today a russian airstrake killed 40 civilians in Idlib.

No, but it was the people that Turkey supports by arming and funding (that you refute). Yet you have yet to respond to how ISIS manages to sell their oil. Not to mention how you refuse to realize that Turkey has long backed up the "Turkmen" terrorists.

Right, 40 civilians died in due to Russian airstrikes, you know this because of what? Where is that evidence, some guy in England who says he is the "Syrian observatory for human rights"? Funny you bring that up, because even if true, American airstrikes have been killing way more people than that in the middle east long before the Russian campaign even started. Even without a clear goal of accomplishing anything.

[Lukecan]

The west is being a hypocrite by supporting dictators in the gulf and saudi arabia and trying to topple assad at the same time.

On that I agree.

However this doesn't change the fact that Assad is bombing his own people and commiting war crimes.

[Harsh Jones]

Yep this is precisely the photo I was talking about. Those two guys right there are the owners of the joint called Cigeristan(Liveristan in English)

Their names are ali kember and ismail kember.

Below are the same guys.

This proves how dangerous social media can get.

Ok, my bad. Point taken. Although it does not rule out the ties between Turkey and ISIS. Two days ago two journalists were arrested for treason for publishing an article that Turkey arms and funds ISIS.

Again that news is BS as well. That truck was indeed delivering arms, but not to ISIS. To the turkmen rebels. Turkmen rebels are a whole different story, they are openly supported by Turkey.

Turkmen rebels are just just trying to take something because its there. Fog of war. They are aggressing on the legit govt of Syria.

[khunken]

Because he exposed a state secret. Turkey did not admit it was helping the turkmen rebels until that incident. After that it had to admit to the world.

Well after a quick lookup on Wikipedia that doesn't seem to be the case:

On March 15, 2015, the official Turkmen governor of Mosul, Iraq before the ISIL took over the city, Esil Nuceyfi, recently stated and confirmed that the Turkish Special Forces Command, especially Maroon Berets and military specialists are training Turkmens both in Iraq and Syria. He reported the location of the training camps in Iraq as the Iraqi Turkmen Front and other Iraqi officials have reached on an agreement which allows the training of Turkmens by Turkey and creation of an official Turkmen Brigade under the Iraqi army which will be commanded by an Iraqi Turkmen, under the right to guarantee by the Republic of Turkey, nevertheless he didn't give out the location of Turkish camps in Syria which the Turkmens are being trained, stating that it still takes place unofficially and in a secret way.^[10][11] He added that Turkish Forces are training the Syrian Turks to protect their settlements and to join the fight with Syrian Turkmen Brigades in those secretly located camps. Nuceyfi also gave more information saying that Turkish officials have told that military supplies and weapons will be sent to Turkmens in Iraq and Syria in the near future but he isn't acquainted about the exact amount and date.

Later that day, Turkish 'officials' in Ankara, confirmed the statements of Esil Nuceyfi about the before and the positively promising future of the training of Turkmens both in Iraq and Syria

Emphasize mine.

You speak of the dangers of social media. Yet you totally disregard the dangers of fundamentalism, and the danger of supporting them for your end goals. Your ignorance is a spit in the face of all the dead people in Paris.

And you still haven't answered me about the ISIS oil trucks. Where do you figure their physical oil and subsequent oil revenue went to?

It wasnt the turkmens who carried out the paris attacks. Everyone in that area would be considered a fundamentalist by western standards , even assad supporters and the kurds.

BTW, a new Paris is happening every single week in the middle east. Just today a russian airstrake killed 40 civilians in Idlib.

There are no western standards. Assad, whatever his faults, is no fundamentalist, the Alawites have no record of fundamentalism.

There is a huge difference between ISIS, Al-Nusra & other Salafist groups and those supporting Assad. Most anti-Assad are Sunni who make up the major extremist groups with their warped version of Islam.

Unfortunately Sunni Turkey is supporting the Sunni militias and the Turkomen are doing the same. Turkey is also attacking the Kurds who are fighting against the extremist ISIS & AL-Qaeda/Al-Nusra in both Iraq and Syria.

As I said before, Turkey is playing a two-faced game of pretending to be anti-ISIS while supporting them by buying their oil & supplying them with weapons. Despite a terrorist attack not long ago against a protest supporting the Kurds - blaming Syria among others except the real perps (ISIS) or internal right-wing nationalist militia (Grey Foxes) - yet still wants to remove Assad when it is obvious that the real threat to the region & outside is ISIS and their sub-groups all across northern Africa.