Protest outside US Consulate

[mamborobert]

Gonzo.....author has been here a while.

Thomas Fuller

Thomas Fuller is the Southeast Asia Correspondent for The New York Times based in Bangkok.

He began reporting from Asia in 1997 during the region’s financial crisis and has covered the American invasion of Iraq and the Arab Spring. He was also posted in Brussels and Paris, covering the European Union.

[northernjohn]

It is my opinion that the above linked NYT article is written by someone heavily biased. He puts forth his opinions termed and phrased in such ways that the reader will easily get an opinionated slant..... his slant..... his interpretation. Makes you wonder if the man ever lived in Thailand or for how long, or just got his info from various media.

I would guess he is American, and being American myself am not being negative to his opinion, but rather questioning his 'rest of the world' education. Let me give you an example of what I think is his tunnel sited-ness. I will use one of his small paragraphs from the article.... "Thailand’s malaise set in after nearly a decade of political turmoil. In late 2013, a protest movement led by the country’s elites took to the streets to demand the suspension of electoral democracy. The military obliged, taking power from an elected government in May 2014"

As an American, one may believe, and believe very sincerely , that in an election the person with the largest amount of votes is the winner. This is true if the election was properly run and was all on the up and up and fair.....

I don't recall " the elites " demanding a suspension of electoral democracy . Is Thai democracy different than other democracy spelled out in other parts of the world? Is it Thai Democracy as interpreted by who has the biggest bank with which to be able to present potential voters, with say a thousand baht note for a vote? Surely using this formula you will gain many more votes than someone less funded. To many Americans and also others in the west as guided by what is presented in the media, the one with the largest number of votes should have the office. How these votes were garnered is never questioned in the west , as for the most part vote buying doesn't occur..... is not allowed to occur...... but is done by pre election promise rather that pre election cash.

I think what most citizens of Thailand wanted was an end to the ever increasing level of corruption that was becoming just a way of life

This corruption was growing for generations. It was just getting to the point , where there was not enough to live on , to keep giving. As to the average Thai being unhappy today...... well maybe that is just , while a corrupt government can be removed almost instantly, a replacement cannot be put into place with the speed of flipping on a light switch. The corruption built for generations and it should realistically take at least a number of years to replace......

If you got this far in my ranting litany, thank you and I will now take my leave and take a nap...

Very well said. It is a shame that People believed every thing they read. The media prints that because that is what they want to hear. Like in America. Every one buys the Trump articles. Because they like to be entertained and the media knows that. They would not buy the articles if Trump was not a very amusing character and spoke the truth.

Let us remember the Western idea of Democracy does not mean the person who got the most votes Look at Al Gore when he received more votes than Bush.

[northernjohn]

Most of the replies on this thread display very little understanding of the people we are living among.

The Thai attitude to foreign interference and criticism - on all social, economic, and intellectual levels - is one of deep and passionate dislike.

Don't be misled by the small numbers of demonstrators at the US Consulates in Bangkok and Chiang Mai - most Thais at this point are just vaguely aware of the economic and political agenda being pushed by the US consular officials.

Ambassador Davies in his recent pronouncements may be just following orders, or he may be voicing his own opinions.

Either way, if this clueless imbecile doesn't quickly develop some insight about the local situation he will be causing problems for all of us.

Compliments to northernjohn for his perception - expressed in his homespun way - and courage to speak up against the sycophants and toadies who are so quick to defend a country that - even when it means well - creates trouble all over the world.

Thank you for the homespun. It allows me to look at facts not what will please the guy sitting next to me. He is allowed his opinion if he has one. Most don't they just go along with the crowd.

I cannot speak for any country other than America as that is the country I am a citizen of. It sickens me to see them invade three countries for profit. The first Gulf war I think was justified. In all three of the other wars many Americans died. The fact is that there was just as many suicides by the military people as war caused deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan can not comment on Vietnam do not have that information.

Still the States tries to run the world.

I admit I have very little understanding of the way their mind works. but I have enough understanding of common sense to see that it works for them. So I try to follow them. I do on occasion get upset but very rarely if at all tell them they are wrong and they should do this. Once in a while with the wife. I win about 40% of the time. But she is different she really cares for me.

I have to laugh at immigration out of over 60 provinces we are the only one with problems. Yet we think are Ambassador and all the other ones should do some thing about it. Immigration knows. It is not news to them.

[heybruce]

It is my opinion that the above linked NYT article is written by someone heavily biased. He puts forth his opinions termed and phrased in such ways that the reader will easily get an opinionated slant..... his slant..... his interpretation. Makes you wonder if the man ever lived in Thailand or for how long, or just got his info from various media.

I would guess he is American, and being American myself am not being negative to his opinion, but rather questioning his 'rest of the world' education. Let me give you an example of what I think is his tunnel sited-ness. I will use one of his small paragraphs from the article.... "Thailand’s malaise set in after nearly a decade of political turmoil. In late 2013, a protest movement led by the country’s elites took to the streets to demand the suspension of electoral democracy. The military obliged, taking power from an elected government in May 2014"

As an American, one may believe, and believe very sincerely , that in an election the person with the largest amount of votes is the winner. This is true if the election was properly run and was all on the up and up and fair.....

I don't recall " the elites " demanding a suspension of electoral democracy . Is Thai democracy different than other democracy spelled out in other parts of the world? Is it Thai Democracy as interpreted by who has the biggest bank with which to be able to present potential voters, with say a thousand baht note for a vote? Surely using this formula you will gain many more votes than someone less funded. To many Americans and also others in the west as guided by what is presented in the media, the one with the largest number of votes should have the office. How these votes were garnered is never questioned in the west , as for the most part vote buying doesn't occur..... is not allowed to occur...... but is done by pre election promise rather that pre election cash.

I think what most citizens of Thailand wanted was an end to the ever increasing level of corruption that was becoming just a way of life

This corruption was growing for generations. It was just getting to the point , where there was not enough to live on , to keep giving. As to the average Thai being unhappy today...... well maybe that is just , while a corrupt government can be removed almost instantly, a replacement cannot be put into place with the speed of flipping on a light switch. The corruption built for generations and it should realistically take at least a number of years to replace......

If you got this far in my ranting litany, thank you and I will now take my leave and take a nap...

"I don't recall " the elites " demanding a suspension of electoral democracy ."

Really? I recall Suthep using his minions to disrupt one election and promising to do the same for the proposed July election unless the government stepped down and an unnamed committee implemented unspecified reforms. That certainly strikes me as a suspension of electoral democracy. Funny thing, 18 months after the coup and the reforms are still unspecified.

"I think what most citizens of Thailand wanted was an end to the ever increasing level of corruption that was becoming just a way of life."

I think most Thai citizens know that the military is as corrupt as any institution in Thailand. http://government.defenceindex.org/countries/thailand/

I doubt if many of them expect the military to clean up corruption, just redirect it to new beneficiaries.

[Puwa]

No doubt Fuller wears his political sympathies on his sleeve, but the article does capture the country's growing malaise.

[Gonzo the Face]

It is my opinion that the above linked NYT article is written by someone heavily biased. He puts forth his opinions termed and phrased in such ways that the reader will easily get an opinionated slant..... his slant..... his interpretation. Makes you wonder if the man ever lived in Thailand or for how long, or just got his info from various media.

I would guess he is American, and being American myself am not being negative to his opinion, but rather questioning his 'rest of the world' education. Let me give you an example of what I think is his tunnel sited-ness. I will use one of his small paragraphs from the article.... "Thailand’s malaise set in after nearly a decade of political turmoil. In late 2013, a protest movement led by the country’s elites took to the streets to demand the suspension of electoral democracy. The military obliged, taking power from an elected government in May 2014"

As an American, one may believe, and believe very sincerely , that in an election the person with the largest amount of votes is the winner. This is true if the election was properly run and was all on the up and up and fair.....

I don't recall " the elites " demanding a suspension of electoral democracy . Is Thai democracy different than other democracy spelled out in other parts of the world? Is it Thai Democracy as interpreted by who has the biggest bank with which to be able to present potential voters, with say a thousand baht note for a vote? Surely using this formula you will gain many more votes than someone less funded. To many Americans and also others in the west as guided by what is presented in the media, the one with the largest number of votes should have the office. How these votes were garnered is never questioned in the west , as for the most part vote buying doesn't occur..... is not allowed to occur...... but is done by pre election promise rather that pre election cash.

I think what most citizens of Thailand wanted was an end to the ever increasing level of corruption that was becoming just a way of life

This corruption was growing for generations. It was just getting to the point , where there was not enough to live on , to keep giving. As to the average Thai being unhappy today...... well maybe that is just , while a corrupt government can be removed almost instantly, a replacement cannot be put into place with the speed of flipping on a light switch. The corruption built for generations and it should realistically take at least a number of years to replace......

If you got this far in my ranting litany, thank you and I will now take my leave and take a nap...

"I don't recall " the elites " demanding a suspension of electoral democracy ."

Really? I recall Suthep using his minions to disrupt one election and promising to do the same for the proposed July election unless the government stepped down and an unnamed committee implemented unspecified reforms. That certainly strikes me as a suspension of electoral democracy. Funny thing, 18 months after the coup and the reforms are still unspecified.

"I think what most citizens of Thailand wanted was an end to the ever increasing level of corruption that was becoming just a way of life."

I think most Thai citizens know that the military is as corrupt as any institution in Thailand. http://government.defenceindex.org/countries/thailand/

I doubt if many of them expect the military to clean up corruption, just redirect it to new beneficiaries.

I can agree with you and your opinion of Kn. Suthep. He may be considered by many comparable to the south end of a north bound horse....... but where you and I disagree...... there was an earlier election..... there was a declared winner...... but paying for votes surely you can't feel that is democracy at work......If you and your group can afford to buy more votes..... is that democracy???

[daoyai]

It is my opinion that the above linked NYT article is written by someone heavily biased. He puts forth his opinions termed and phrased in such ways that the reader will easily get an opinionated slant..... his slant..... his interpretation. Makes you wonder if the man ever lived in Thailand or for how long, or just got his info from various media.

I would guess he is American, and being American myself am not being negative to his opinion, but rather questioning his 'rest of the world' education. Let me give you an example of what I think is his tunnel sited-ness. I will use one of his small paragraphs from the article.... "Thailand’s malaise set in after nearly a decade of political turmoil. In late 2013, a protest movement led by the country’s elites took to the streets to demand the suspension of electoral democracy. The military obliged, taking power from an elected government in May 2014"

As an American, one may believe, and believe very sincerely , that in an election the person with the largest amount of votes is the winner. This is true if the election was properly run and was all on the up and up and fair.....

I don't recall " the elites " demanding a suspension of electoral democracy . Is Thai democracy different than other democracy spelled out in other parts of the world? Is it Thai Democracy as interpreted by who has the biggest bank with which to be able to present potential voters, with say a thousand baht note for a vote? Surely using this formula you will gain many more votes than someone less funded. To many Americans and also others in the west as guided by what is presented in the media, the one with the largest number of votes should have the office. How these votes were garnered is never questioned in the west , as for the most part vote buying doesn't occur..... is not allowed to occur...... but is done by pre election promise rather that pre election cash.

I think what most citizens of Thailand wanted was an end to the ever increasing level of corruption that was becoming just a way of life

This corruption was growing for generations. It was just getting to the point , where there was not enough to live on , to keep giving. As to the average Thai being unhappy today...... well maybe that is just , while a corrupt government can be removed almost instantly, a replacement cannot be put into place with the speed of flipping on a light switch. The corruption built for generations and it should realistically take at least a number of years to replace......

If you got this far in my ranting litany, thank you and I will now take my leave and take a nap...

"I don't recall " the elites " demanding a suspension of electoral democracy ."

Really? I recall Suthep using his minions to disrupt one election and promising to do the same for the proposed July election unless the government stepped down and an unnamed committee implemented unspecified reforms. That certainly strikes me as a suspension of electoral democracy. Funny thing, 18 months after the coup and the reforms are still unspecified.

"I think what most citizens of Thailand wanted was an end to the ever increasing level of corruption that was becoming just a way of life."

I think most Thai citizens know that the military is as corrupt as any institution in Thailand. http://government.defenceindex.org/countries/thailand/

I doubt if many of them expect the military to clean up corruption, just redirect it to new beneficiaries.

I can agree with you and your opinion of Kn. Suthep. He may be considered by many comparable to the south end of a north bound horse....... but where you and I disagree...... there was an earlier election..... there was a declared winner...... but paying for votes surely you can't feel that is democracy at work......If you and your group can afford to buy more votes..... is that democracy???

Yes, in one form or another, that is democracy. ....at least in the beginning, Tameny hall and Chicago, you track down the vote sellers and bust em, the culture evolves to only honor clean elections, It takes time the military and the ======== are not in the democracy business.

[heybruce]

It is my opinion that the above linked NYT article is written by someone heavily biased. He puts forth his opinions termed and phrased in such ways that the reader will easily get an opinionated slant..... his slant..... his interpretation. Makes you wonder if the man ever lived in Thailand or for how long, or just got his info from various media.

I would guess he is American, and being American myself am not being negative to his opinion, but rather questioning his 'rest of the world' education. Let me give you an example of what I think is his tunnel sited-ness. I will use one of his small paragraphs from the article.... "Thailand’s malaise set in after nearly a decade of political turmoil. In late 2013, a protest movement led by the country’s elites took to the streets to demand the suspension of electoral democracy. The military obliged, taking power from an elected government in May 2014"

As an American, one may believe, and believe very sincerely , that in an election the person with the largest amount of votes is the winner. This is true if the election was properly run and was all on the up and up and fair.....

I don't recall " the elites " demanding a suspension of electoral democracy . Is Thai democracy different than other democracy spelled out in other parts of the world? Is it Thai Democracy as interpreted by who has the biggest bank with which to be able to present potential voters, with say a thousand baht note for a vote? Surely using this formula you will gain many more votes than someone less funded. To many Americans and also others in the west as guided by what is presented in the media, the one with the largest number of votes should have the office. How these votes were garnered is never questioned in the west , as for the most part vote buying doesn't occur..... is not allowed to occur...... but is done by pre election promise rather that pre election cash.

I think what most citizens of Thailand wanted was an end to the ever increasing level of corruption that was becoming just a way of life

This corruption was growing for generations. It was just getting to the point , where there was not enough to live on , to keep giving. As to the average Thai being unhappy today...... well maybe that is just , while a corrupt government can be removed almost instantly, a replacement cannot be put into place with the speed of flipping on a light switch. The corruption built for generations and it should realistically take at least a number of years to replace......

If you got this far in my ranting litany, thank you and I will now take my leave and take a nap...

"I don't recall " the elites " demanding a suspension of electoral democracy ."

Really? I recall Suthep using his minions to disrupt one election and promising to do the same for the proposed July election unless the government stepped down and an unnamed committee implemented unspecified reforms. That certainly strikes me as a suspension of electoral democracy. Funny thing, 18 months after the coup and the reforms are still unspecified.

"I think what most citizens of Thailand wanted was an end to the ever increasing level of corruption that was becoming just a way of life."

I think most Thai citizens know that the military is as corrupt as any institution in Thailand. http://government.defenceindex.org/countries/thailand/

I doubt if many of them expect the military to clean up corruption, just redirect it to new beneficiaries.

I can agree with you and your opinion of Kn. Suthep. He may be considered by many comparable to the south end of a north bound horse....... but where you and I disagree...... there was an earlier election..... there was a declared winner...... but paying for votes surely you can't feel that is democracy at work......If you and your group can afford to buy more votes..... is that democracy???

No election, even those in mature democracies, is perfect. However if irregularities are determined to not be on a scale to change the outcome the results are deemed legitimate. The 2011 election that put the PTP in power was internationally monitored and the results declared legitimate. No one has ever produced evidence of cheating on a scale that would throw the election results into question.

[northernjohn]

It is my opinion that the above linked NYT article is written by someone heavily biased. He puts forth his opinions termed and phrased in such ways that the reader will easily get an opinionated slant..... his slant..... his interpretation. Makes you wonder if the man ever lived in Thailand or for how long, or just got his info from various media.

I would guess he is American, and being American myself am not being negative to his opinion, but rather questioning his 'rest of the world' education. Let me give you an example of what I think is his tunnel sited-ness. I will use one of his small paragraphs from the article.... "Thailand’s malaise set in after nearly a decade of political turmoil. In late 2013, a protest movement led by the country’s elites took to the streets to demand the suspension of electoral democracy. The military obliged, taking power from an elected government in May 2014"

As an American, one may believe, and believe very sincerely , that in an election the person with the largest amount of votes is the winner. This is true if the election was properly run and was all on the up and up and fair.....

I don't recall " the elites " demanding a suspension of electoral democracy . Is Thai democracy different than other democracy spelled out in other parts of the world? Is it Thai Democracy as interpreted by who has the biggest bank with which to be able to present potential voters, with say a thousand baht note for a vote? Surely using this formula you will gain many more votes than someone less funded. To many Americans and also others in the west as guided by what is presented in the media, the one with the largest number of votes should have the office. How these votes were garnered is never questioned in the west , as for the most part vote buying doesn't occur..... is not allowed to occur...... but is done by pre election promise rather that pre election cash.

I think what most citizens of Thailand wanted was an end to the ever increasing level of corruption that was becoming just a way of life

This corruption was growing for generations. It was just getting to the point , where there was not enough to live on , to keep giving. As to the average Thai being unhappy today...... well maybe that is just , while a corrupt government can be removed almost instantly, a replacement cannot be put into place with the speed of flipping on a light switch. The corruption built for generations and it should realistically take at least a number of years to replace......

If you got this far in my ranting litany, thank you and I will now take my leave and take a nap...

"I don't recall " the elites " demanding a suspension of electoral democracy ."

Really? I recall Suthep using his minions to disrupt one election and promising to do the same for the proposed July election unless the government stepped down and an unnamed committee implemented unspecified reforms. That certainly strikes me as a suspension of electoral democracy. Funny thing, 18 months after the coup and the reforms are still unspecified.

"I think what most citizens of Thailand wanted was an end to the ever increasing level of corruption that was becoming just a way of life."

I think most Thai citizens know that the military is as corrupt as any institution in Thailand. http://government.defenceindex.org/countries/thailand/

I doubt if many of them expect the military to clean up corruption, just redirect it to new beneficiaries.

I can agree with you and your opinion of Kn. Suthep. He may be considered by many comparable to the south end of a north bound horse....... but where you and I disagree...... there was an earlier election..... there was a declared winner...... but paying for votes surely you can't feel that is democracy at work......If you and your group can afford to buy more votes..... is that democracy???

Yes, in one form or another, that is democracy. ....at least in the beginning, Tameny hall and Chicago, you track down the vote sellers and bust em, the culture evolves to only honor clean elections, It takes time the military and the ======== are not in the democracy business.

Who cares they are making Thailand a better place to live. They will redo many of the errors in the previous type of government where the minority of the people get to rule the majority of the people. They will have an election with much more honest returns.

No it will not be perfect. Perfection is a dream.

All countries have corruption. Under the military it is getting less in Thailand. It is not always vote buying. Grant in the states never bought any votes and he was the most corrupt President the states ever had. Up until Bush and some may disagree on that.

The whole thing boils down to the fact that Thais do not like to be told what to do. Which is what America is trying to do. They really don't care about how America got corrupt or what they are ding about it. They object to the I am better than you so do what I tell you attitude that the Americans are using.

Not my numbers but several previous posters and the ones who liked them. Personally I think they are full of nonsense. But if they were right 68,000,000 Thais disagreed with the few Thais who protested against the United States telling them what to do it would have been done in a flash.