Housing Slump or what ?

[bangmai]

they can't force you to sell your primary residence, but can have a lien on it, that would have to be paid to transfer ownership, with interest. Varies from State to State, a little. The problem with the tax breaks for seniors is there are limits to the assets you can have. In one case, 350,000 USD....But, people do get taxed out of their homes in the US....New Jersey comes to mind....there are people with annual tax bills that are more than what they paid for the house and land. Oh, and HOA fees can be crazy in the US.

Nobody gets "taxed out" of their home in America. The value of the property has increased VASTLY to cause the taxes to be greater than the original purchase price.

If they don't have the income to live in such an EXPENSIVE neighborhood, then they can sell their home AT GREAT PROFIT and move somewhere less expensive.

You talk about this anecdote like it was a bad thing, 5555

I would be happy with the big payday, but for many, the houses that have been in their families for generations are priceless. Next time you watch the Arizona Diamondbacks in a home game, look at second base. That is the former site of a woman's house, who lived their for 90 years, and was even born in it. She didn't want to move, at any price. They got rid of her for about a half million USD, and sent her to an assisted living home. She was dead in 6 weeks.

[SiSePuede419]

"Foreigners are not allowed to own land in Thailand by law."

www.justlanded.com/english/Thailand/Thailand-Guide/Property/Legal-restrictions

Feel free to post a link to a government website that says foreigners can 100% own land in Thailand?

I'm guessing there is none and this is just TVF genius bullshit.

A foreigner cannot 100% own land in Thailand, regardless of what any barstool jockey says.

Edited December 2, 2015 by SiSePuede419

[SiSePuede419]

"They got rid of her for about a half million USD, and sent her to an assisted living home. She was dead in 6 weeks."

Boohoohoo. An old lady who was living "downtown" got 500KUSD and had to move.

Maybe she would have been dead in 3 weeks, had she not moved?

Speculation does not prove correlation, 555

For that kind of money, the old lady could have bought some cheap land in Gilbert or Surprise and moved her house there and still have several hundred thousands left over. It's not like she was walking around that neighborhood doing anything. Downtown PHX is not Manhattan. She wasn't "living" there only holed up in her shack.

Yeah, a real tear jerker story from America

Edited December 2, 2015 by SiSePuede419

[LivinLOS]

Half the guys here renting houses long-term would buy them in a second if they were easily able to and had the cash.

But they can't.

So no No No No! They don't want to, renting them is best no matter what!

Funny.

I both have the cash and the ability to have a decent nominee owner (who already owns our land).. But I rent.

Places change.. I change.. I am not old age ready to sit watching the grass grow..

Add in that its not financially a good choice here and the deck is kind of stacked.

[LivinLOS]

"Foreigners are not allowed to own land in Thailand by law."

www.justlanded.com/english/Thailand/Thailand-Guide/Property/Legal-restrictions

Feel free to post a link to a government website that says foreigners can 100% own land in Thailand?

I'm guessing there is none and this is just TVF genius bullshit.

A foreigner cannot 100% own land in Thailand, regardless of what any barstool jockey says.

http://www.thailawonline.com/en/property/property-law/40-million-baht-investment.html

Please do your own research..

[chiang mai]

"Foreigners are not allowed to own land in Thailand by law."

www.justlanded.com/english/Thailand/Thailand-Guide/Property/Legal-restrictions

Feel free to post a link to a government website that says foreigners can 100% own land in Thailand?

I'm guessing there is none and this is just TVF genius bullshit.

A foreigner cannot 100% own land in Thailand, regardless of what any barstool jockey says.

Regrettably you are wrong and the barstool jockey correct, BOI schemes allow foreigners to own up to 1 rai, I think it's your round!

EDIT: sorry I see LinL beat me to it.

Edited December 3, 2015 by chiang mai

[zierf1]

Must be running out of farang suckers. Btw, 3.5mil baht is wayyy more than locals can afford. If my income was 300 baht a day I wouldn't buy from you either(I couldn't afford to!).

[condo bought]

Must be running out of farang suckers. Btw, 3.5mil baht is wayyy more than locals can afford. If my income was 300 baht a day I wouldn't buy from you either(I couldn't afford to!).

I think you need to upgrade the level of Thai that you are paying to copulate with.

[LivinLOS]

Must be running out of farang suckers. Btw, 3.5mil baht is wayyy more than locals can afford. If my income was 300 baht a day I wouldn't buy from you either(I couldn't afford to!).

But hes now moved down to 2.3 which is close to his cost.. I sympathize with his issues, but the market here is simply oversaturated and the idea that old johnny can build a house (a standard design and size with no outstanding features or position) and be sure of making a profit over build costs, ones where lets face it he may have over paid a little, are not the reality I see.

Theres literally 1000s of new build 'standard homes' by established developers who will provide a decent warranty period and be forced to back it up.. They will also have bulk bought and system designed to shave costs.. And Thais want that 'new home' vibe.. So the competition for that is razor sharp.

Then at the other end.. Theres the farang villa, with the pool, with all the nice design features.. He did it just how he wanted.. But is that design what the next guy dreamt of ?? So he put in a projection home theater, or hes got a space with a snooker table... Thats his thing now he needs a buyer to desire that or its dead money. A great example would be my last place, built by a Belgian Gourmand.. The house kitchen done in 2 levels a Thai level with gaz and sinks and a farang level counter with secondary high end gaz and sinks.. Outside a huge entertaining sala, as big as a small home itself, with a table for 24 and a full huge kitchen with every appliance you could imagine built in, griddle tops, deep fryer, pizza oven, there were appliances built in that kitchen I dont even know what they were for. His friends told me he spent a fortune on that, he loved to cook and entertain... Me sure I might have some mates round and burn meat on the BBQ for a pool party but cook for 24 people ?? Nightmare !!

So the mundane house needs to be cheaper than the average western self builder can do.. And the special house needs to be both special and yet generic and it has to compete with expats who are leaving, having a divorce, and pressure to fire sell..

Talk about a tough market !!

Edited December 3, 2015 by LivinLOS

[chiang mai]

I've yet to see a new build house for 3.5 million that I would buy, either the construction will be shoddy, the layout naff or components such as aircon and kitchen must be added on, or all three. In all cases the lot size will be quite small and the roof will not be ventilated so it will be a hot house in the summer.

I recently bought used property from a Thai which was about 3 mill but it has a full western kitchen, full aircon plus it sits on a rai of delightful gardens, I couldn't be more delighted.

[NeverSure]

You're talking about Thailand, right? Where I live anything I owned prior to a marriage remains mine even without a prenup.

To those who say the government could take my home for taxes, no they can't. Where I live senior citizens can stop paying taxes and let their estate deal with all of the back taxes. The heirs might lose out but not the senior owner. Does someone think they would really come to the home of a senior and kick her out for back taxes? I don't know the laws in other states, but not where I live.

In America, Australia and the UK, the woman can get everything.

Are you French or from the Middle East?

I thought you were from the USA,

Where the DEA, Homeland Security and a whole host of other government departments can freeze your bank accounts, then walk into your home and shoot you then confiscate everything.

I wasn't talking about marriage, but nonetheless you are mistaken. Property laws vary from state to state and in my state anything you owned prior to a marriage stays yours even without a prenup. Anything you acquired during the marriage is split. Other states will allow you to acquire property that is yours alone during a marriage. Buy a car and put in in only your name and it's yours.

It varies.

[elektrified]

In Chiang Mai houses are for living in, not speculation never invest more than you cannot afford to loose.

I tend to agree with that. Speculating on selling for a profit here is foolish. One may NEVER be able to off a property.

Years ago a farang friend came up from Bangkok and bought a condominium in the coveted Nimmanhaemann area. He expected to sell it for a profit. He put me "in charge" of renting it for him. I booked a 50ish Japanese man in there when he came to visit C.M. I was awoken by the telephone ringing at 6:30 the next morning and the man pleading with me to pick him up and take him somewhere where he could get some sleep. The condominium was right next to that Prasert Land and bar area. He said the loud music went on until almost 3:00 A.M. I refunded his deposit in its entirety. It was evident that the place was not rentable. My friend tried for almost 3 years to sell the place, eventually dropping the price 200-300,000 Baht less than he paid for it and never had a single serious offer on it. He left Thailand about 4 years ago due to serious health and financial problems and basically abandoned the condominium. I doubt he will ever return to Thailand.

[Farangdanny]

"Foreigners are not allowed to own land in Thailand by law."

www.justlanded.com/english/Thailand/Thailand-Guide/Property/Legal-restrictions

Feel free to post a link to a government website that says foreigners can 100% own land in Thailand?

I'm guessing there is none and this is just TVF genius bullshit.

A foreigner cannot 100% own land in Thailand, regardless of what any barstool jockey says.

In actual FACT, I foreigner CAN own land 100% in Thailand. There are conditions and some restriction on reselling it, but it IS possible.

It is wise to check the facts before posting on sites as you may mislead others !!

[LivinLOS]

I really dont follow the condo market at all (I cant live in a sky box.. well maybe a huge penthouse one with a big balcony / outside zone.. but really how many of those are there).. But I always imagine they are more liquid and rentable ??

What blow my mind though is the amount of homes, big, expensive, quality(ish) homes.. Just left to degrade and rot.. Surely the cost of upkeep, monthly hacking back the garden, a weekly airing and mae baan.. Costs less than the depreciation of letting it go back to jungle and rot ??

Every morning I walk my dog around my moobaan and look at these homes, ones that must even at thai rates have cost 5 - 10 mil to build, big places.. And yet there they are, 6ft of weeds and decaying woodwork.. Makes no sense at all. I mean even the moobaan fees and other things ?? Do they just skirt on unpaid ?? Almost derelict homes in the middle of a pretty successful well located moobaan..

[LivinLOS]

"Foreigners are not allowed to own land in Thailand by law."

www.justlanded.com/english/Thailand/Thailand-Guide/Property/Legal-restrictions

Feel free to post a link to a government website that says foreigners can 100% own land in Thailand?

I'm guessing there is none and this is just TVF genius bullshit.

A foreigner cannot 100% own land in Thailand, regardless of what any barstool jockey says.

In actual FACT, I foreigner CAN own land 100% in Thailand. There are conditions and some restriction on reselling it, but it IS possible.

It is wise to check the facts before posting on sites as you may mislead others !!

I have read you can inherit land also.. and have one year to dispose of it.. what happens if you dont find a buyer ??

[elektrified]

Just let falangs own land and house.

Market recovery in 5 minutes.

Oh rubbish!

[hml367]

"Foreigners are not allowed to own land in Thailand by law."

www.justlanded.com/english/Thailand/Thailand-Guide/Property/Legal-restrictions

Feel free to post a link to a government website that says foreigners can 100% own land in Thailand?

I'm guessing there is none and this is just TVF genius bullshit.

A foreigner cannot 100% own land in Thailand, regardless of what any barstool jockey says.

In actual FACT, I foreigner CAN own land 100% in Thailand. There are conditions and some restriction on reselling it, but it IS possible.

It is wise to check the facts before posting on sites as you may mislead others !!

I have read you can inherit land also.. and have one year to dispose of it.. what happens if you dont find a buyer ??

Thai courts have been known to give leeway.

Looking for a way to argue just makes the topic excessively long and wastes some ptople's time.

Edited December 3, 2015 by hml367

[elektrified]

It's always cheaper to rent than buy.

As an owner, you're responsible for maintaining the house. Are you saving 25% of the payment for future maintenance expenses? Of course not, 555.

Renting offers 100% flexibility. Neighbors too loud? Move. Want to live in Santa Barbara, California or Veil, Colorado for the summer (as if someone in Thailand could afford to do so)? Move. Want to go traveling for 6 months? Move.

Renting and investing the difference in a Total Stock Market index produces a better average annual ROI (6-8% historically).

All that being said, I know how to build a house for 30,000B that blows away any concrete sweatbox you can buy in Thailand, 555

Knowledge is power, 555

30,000B? Surely you mean dollars or euros. Or you are missing a zero.

There are widescreen TV's that sell for more than that. If you genuinely believe you can build a house for 30,000 baht, my Thai g/f has land for you to put it on.

No, the price is in Baht. It all depends on the cost of the "finish" materials.

Here's one that was done for 240KB that looks like an art piece. Never seen any luxury condo in BKK that looks nicer:

http://inhabitat.com/magical-dome-house-in-remote-thailand-constructed-in-six-weeks-for-just-8000/

Hell, the Rich Russians buy gaudy Italian furniture that looks quite ugly, so money definitely can't buy "good taste", 555

That place has been all over the Internet, on Thai TV, etc. Small, but actually quite lovely. Would be an O.K. weekend getaway for 1-2 people.

[elektrified]

We farangs have a culture that says we must own our home. In our home countries we can actually own it and be protected by the rule of law. We bring that culture to Thailand, apparently forgetting that the rules are different.

Unless you're married or living with a woman.

She can call the police and have you out, any time she wants, no evidence required.

You're talking about Thailand, right? Where I live anything I owned prior to a marriage remains mine even without a prenup.

To those who say the government could take my home for taxes, no they can't. Where I live senior citizens can stop paying taxes and let their estate deal with all of the back taxes. The heirs might lose out but not the senior owner. Does someone think they would really come to the home of a senior and kick her out for back taxes? I don't know the laws in other states, but not where I live.

In America, Australia and the UK, the woman can get everything.

Are you French or from the Middle East?

I thought you were from the USA,

Where the DEA, Homeland Security and a whole host of other government departments can freeze your bank accounts, then walk into your home and shoot you then confiscate everything.

I fully concur with this. It is not safe to own real estate in America. I lost my home and wasn't even behind on my payments. Long story.....but after US $230K in attorney fees, twice to the Court of Appeals, etc....I couldn't continue paying the lawyers and gave up...lost everything ----> US $600,000.00

The one place nobody can ever take your home.......is Spain.

[elektrified]

I really dont follow the condo market at all (I cant live in a sky box.. well maybe a huge penthouse one with a big balcony / outside zone.. but really how many of those are there).. But I always imagine they are more liquid and rentable ??

What blow my mind though is the amount of homes, big, expensive, quality(ish) homes.. Just left to degrade and rot.. Surely the cost of upkeep, monthly hacking back the garden, a weekly airing and mae baan.. Costs less than the depreciation of letting it go back to jungle and rot ??

Every morning I walk my dog around my moobaan and look at these homes, ones that must even at thai rates have cost 5 - 10 mil to build, big places.. And yet there they are, 6ft of weeds and decaying woodwork.. Makes no sense at all. I mean even the moobaan fees and other things ?? Do they just skirt on unpaid ?? Almost derelict homes in the middle of a pretty successful well located moobaan..

I too, see the same thing every day when I'm out on my morning walk. Beautiful, 5-10 mil Baht homes just rotting away - the deteriorating wood, overgrown weeds, etc. And I too don't understand it??? You would never see anything like it in other countries - that I am aware of.

[MaeJoMTB]

Yes that's the rental crowd.....living in a 3000 baht a month room eating 50 baht noodles and drinking archa beer...

I'm in the rental crowd.

Not in a 3000bht a month room though .... wish I was. Noodles are good, Tiger beer is good.

And the food comment is a bit strange, can cook most meals for less than 50bht.

Roast pork with roast potatoes, Yorkshire pudding, peas, carrots and gravy ..... about 40bht.

If I were renting, I would have 8000bht a month extra to spend on beer and noodles.

Buying is just wasting my money, as far as I can see.

Living in a house owned by my wife and her bank, giving her the deposit and paying the home loan was a big mistake.

Wouldn't buy again in Thailand, in person or by proxy. Waste of money, and ties me down.

Nice garden of 1 rai?

You gotta e joking, I have better things to do than sweat in the sun gardening all day.

I can't even be bothered to cut the 10m2 lawn.

Edited December 3, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[MaeJoMTB]

I really dont follow the condo market at all (I cant live in a sky box.. well maybe a huge penthouse one with a big balcony / outside zone.. but really how many of those are there).. But I always imagine they are more liquid and rentable ??

What blow my mind though is the amount of homes, big, expensive, quality(ish) homes.. Just left to degrade and rot.. Surely the cost of upkeep, monthly hacking back the garden, a weekly airing and mae baan.. Costs less than the depreciation of letting it go back to jungle and rot ??

Every morning I walk my dog around my moobaan and look at these homes, ones that must even at thai rates have cost 5 - 10 mil to build, big places.. And yet there they are, 6ft of weeds and decaying woodwork.. Makes no sense at all. I mean even the moobaan fees and other things ?? Do they just skirt on unpaid ?? Almost derelict homes in the middle of a pretty successful well located moobaan..

I too, see the same thing every day when I'm out on my morning walk. Beautiful, 5-10 mil Baht homes just rotting away - the deteriorating wood, overgrown weeds, etc. And I too don't understand it??? You would never see anything like it in other countries - that I am aware of.

These are bank repossessions,

They can't sell for below the outstanding loan amount.

On their books for 10M looks a lot better than sold for 3M with a 7M loss.

Makes perfect financial sense to me, and to the bank accountants.

[chiang mai]

Yes that's the rental crowd.....living in a 3000 baht a month room eating 50 baht noodles and drinking archa beer...

I'm in the rental crowd.

Not in a 3000bht a month room though .... wish I was. Noodles are good, Tiger beer is good.

And the food comment is a bit strange, can cook most meals for less than 50bht.

Roast pork with roast potatoes, Yorkshire pudding, peas, carrots and gravy ..... about 40bht.

If I were renting, I would have 8000bht a month extra to spend on beer and noodles.

Buying is just wasting my money, as far as I can see.

Living in a house owned by my wife and her bank, giving her the deposit and paying the home loan was a big mistake.

Wouldn't buy again in Thailand, in person or by proxy. Waste of money, and ties me down.

Nice garden of 1 rai?

You gotta e joking, I have better things to do than sweat in the sun gardening all day.

I can't even be bothered to cut the 10m2 lawn.

"I have better things to do than sweat in the sun gardening all day".

Says the man who cycles up Doi Suthep every day!

[MaeJoMTB]

"I have better things to do than sweat in the sun gardening all day".

Says the man who cycles up Doi Suthep every day!

That only takes me 47 minutes now!

And no back pain during or after.

[chiang mai]

"I have better things to do than sweat in the sun gardening all day".

Says the man who cycles up Doi Suthep every day!

That only takes me 47 minutes now!

And no back pain during or after.

No back pain here either:

P/T housekeeper, P/T Gardener 12,000

And it takes me way less than 47 minutes each day.

[LivinLOS]

Nice garden of 1 rai?

You gotta e joking, I have better things to do than sweat in the sun gardening all day.

I can't even be bothered to cut the 10m2 lawn.

Thats why you have a Burmese garden wallah or two..

Next you will be suggesting cleaning your own pool.. Dear god man !!

[MaeJoMTB]

Nice garden of 1 rai?

You gotta e joking, I have better things to do than sweat in the sun gardening all day.

I can't even be bothered to cut the 10m2 lawn.

Thats why you have a Burmese garden wallah or two..

Next you will be suggesting cleaning your own pool.. Dear god man !!

Off topic,

I had a gardener in the UK, he ended up humping my wife, and she got the house in the divorce.

Now I cut my own grass, and hump my own wife.

[elektrified]

I really dont follow the condo market at all (I cant live in a sky box.. well maybe a huge penthouse one with a big balcony / outside zone.. but really how many of those are there).. But I always imagine they are more liquid and rentable ??

What blow my mind though is the amount of homes, big, expensive, quality(ish) homes.. Just left to degrade and rot.. Surely the cost of upkeep, monthly hacking back the garden, a weekly airing and mae baan.. Costs less than the depreciation of letting it go back to jungle and rot ??

Every morning I walk my dog around my moobaan and look at these homes, ones that must even at thai rates have cost 5 - 10 mil to build, big places.. And yet there they are, 6ft of weeds and decaying woodwork.. Makes no sense at all. I mean even the moobaan fees and other things ?? Do they just skirt on unpaid ?? Almost derelict homes in the middle of a pretty successful well located moobaan..

I too, see the same thing every day when I'm out on my morning walk. Beautiful, 5-10 mil Baht homes just rotting away - the deteriorating wood, overgrown weeds, etc. And I too don't understand it??? You would never see anything like it in other countries - that I am aware of.

These are bank repossessions,

They can't sell for below the outstanding loan amount.

On their books for 10M looks a lot better than sold for 3M with a 7M loss.

Makes perfect financial sense to me, and to the bank accountants.

No, not all. Some are though - you are right. Usually the banks have signs up for silly money. Many are just abandoned by Thais who move in to another home they own. There is one absolutely beautiful home I see each day on my walk owned by a lawyer. Scales of justice statue and logos and whatnot still there. Probably 1 rai of land, part teak, about 5 bedrooms, etc. with sala, and (what was) a beautiful garden. They packed up and moved to a home they have in Bangkok says the guy next door. Hasn't been a soul inside there for perhaps 3-4 years now. Just left, let the fish in the ponds die, etc. Weird....to me.

[hml367]

Related to this in some small way: What happened to all the non-performing loans from the crash in 1997?

An oft used adage is, "follow the money". A few people probably made a lot of money from the construction up to 1997 - then a lot of other people were left owing the banks?

[amykat]

Yes that's the rental crowd.....living in a 3000 baht a month room eating 50 baht noodles and drinking archa beer...

can cook most meals for less than 50bht.

Roast pork with roast potatoes, Yorkshire pudding, peas, carrots and gravy ..... about 40bht.

Could you please start cooking for me??