Where to find black plastic pallet wrap in Thailand

[Guitar God]

I don't know if this will be the shortest thread or just the most specific and least interesting one but I'm looking for a place to buy black plastic pallet wrap in Thailand, you know, the kind people in warehouses wrap pallets of stuff with.

Black, because I want to wrap my water tanks with it during the cold, but sunny months, so my shower water heats up to 45 instead of 40.

I already have the most powerful (6000w) multipoint water heater and I'm trying to avoid installing a pre water heater heater for just a month or so a year of cremaster muscle stimulating shower water.

[KittenKong]

How about paint?

[lopburi3]

Such plastic (light weight) is sold by garden type places and heavy should be available from truck supply stops. Can't you reduce the flow control on heater or pre-filter to increase the temperature?

[MJCM]

My water for the house comes from an Underground Water Tank, and I also have a 6000 Watt (Stiebel DHM-6) water heater.

And even with cold water my DHM-6 doesn't skip a beat and heats the water to scorching hot if desired.

So if you say you get cold water when showering then I suspect that you (maybe) have a problem with your Water Heater.

Suggestion, before you shower leave the water running for about a 30 seconds or so and see if the water is still cold.

Question do you use a Mix Tap ?

[Crossy]

I'm going to move this to DIY as it's more of a water heating issue rather than Business.

[Guitar God]

I have the biggest Mitsubishi inverter pump available with the pressure set to the highest and the pressure on the second floor still isn't very strong so I don't want to reduce it. In the summer the temp is okay so I don't want to paint them, I'd like wrap I can take off once it's warmer out.

I have a 6kw multi tap heater and the pipes run a few meters encased in the concrete floor so I'm guessing that's cooling the water a bit.

I expected hotter water with it set to high. Even the sink above the heater isn't real hot.

In the shower I have a temperature controlled tap but not on the sink or tub and the temp is the same

By "mix-tap" you mean one with hot and cold water into one? The sink and shower yes, the tub no. Why?

[lopburi3]

Are you mixing too much cold water is the issue - multi taps are often difficult to set up here where cold water means warm. But if you are not getting hot water at only hot output of sink you might want them to check heater as have seen reports of some having taps inside to change wires for different incoming temperature water ranges - perhaps set wrong.

[MJCM]

My (6kw) Water heater is installed under the sink in the (master) bathroom and services the Master Shower, the sink (in the bathroom) and the sink in the kitchen.

The distance between the water heater and the sink in the kitchen is approx 5-8 meters (and is also encased in concrete).

When we open the Mixing Tap in the Kitchen, set it to Hot and leave it on for about 10-15 seconds the water is so hot, I would not dare to hold my hand underneath that, and the same for the ones in the Bathroom.

Maybe the installer installed the water heater wrong, but that is just a suggestion.

This is what I mean with a Mixing Tap

[Guitar God]

Thanks, I'll look into if the heater is set up correctly. It is on high but it haven't had the cover off.

Since it's warm at best at the tub which has separate knobs for hot and cold, the heater seems the most likely culprit. I can fill the tub entirely from the hot and it still could be a bit warmer and still comfortable.

[Guitar God]

Which brand heater do you have? Mine is a Mazuna Redring Power stream +2 6kw

My (6kw) Water heater is installed under the sink in the (master) bathroom and services the Master Shower, the sink (in the bathroom) and the sink in the kitchen.

The distance between the water heater and the sink in the kitchen is approx 5-8 meters (and is also encased in concrete).

When we open the Mixing Tap in the Kitchen, set it to Hot and leave it on for about 10-15 seconds the water is so hot, I would not dare to hold my hand underneath that, and the same for the ones in the Bathroom.

Maybe the installer installed the water heater wrong, but that is just a suggestion.

This is what I mean with a Mixing Tap

[MJCM]

I have this one (bought at HomePro)

http://www.stiebeleltronasia.com/productdetail.php?productcateid=4&producttypeid=44&productseriesid=48&id=69

[Guitar God]

Today I crawled under the sink to look at the heater after finding a manual online for it. Unfortunately although the model is the same, mine lacks the high-low internal setting so aside from calling Home-Pro, I'm at a loss of what I could do next.

I have a digital thermometer and did some tests. I'd appreciate any input from anyone more familiar with plumbing and physics than I am.

Input temp is 29. On the lowest flow that turns the unit on, I get 47C water out, at max flow it's 46C. An 18 rise for a 6000w heater. (I've yet to measure the flow rate though).

In another bathroom, a wall-mounted unit that is probably half the power of the multitap 6kw, at min flow I get 41C out, at max flow it's 40C. That's a 12 degree rise.

The smaller unit is also a Mazuma but it's a "Miracle" Gold shower heater. According to the Homepro site it appears to be a 4.5kw

Has anyone else measured the in and out temps of their heaters? Any ideas?

We just had our well re-drilled deeper and unfortunately when they hooked the pump back up to the tanks, they bypassed my big stainless steel, spaceship-looking Mazuma water filter and got a bunch of sand in the tanks before I noticed they'd moved the valves into bypass mode. I've had to clean out the mesh filters in two of the toilet tank lines but I didn't think heaters had a prefilter, and I don't see how lower flow would give me colder water.

Time to call Home Pro, or do I have unrealistic expectations about water temp and pressure here even when using big pumps and big heaters? I wanted to get a 8.5kw but the bathroom has just a 32A breaker that a two-person Jacuzzi tub, six (LED) lights and exhaust fans are on. The 6kw alone draws 27A, I figured the 8.5kw would trip the breaker and no way I could run hot water with the tub on. Now, I have to because it's too cold otherwise. Sorry to complain about my 1st world problems...

[Guitar God]

So, according to the book at Home Pro, 50C is the max you can get out of a 6000w heater so the solution seems to be to get a bigger heater.

[MJCM]

I honestly find that hard to believe, maybe HomePro is trying to sell you another water heater.

Good Luck in buying another water heater, but if you do, make absolutely sure that your electric supply / cabling is up to it, as a 8kw water heater will be drawing +/- 33amps ?

Question, what size of electrical meter do you have ? 5/15, 15/45 or 30/100 ?

Maybe ask Moderator Crossy (over in the Electrical Forum http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/191-the-electrical-forum/) before you go and buy a new one.

[Crossy]

Before consigning the heater to the bin we should know if it really is faulty.

We need to know:-

1. The flow rate from the heater (Litres per second)
2. The energy actually going in to the heater (Watts)
3. The temperature rise of the water (^oC ).

Number 2 is not necessarily an the easy one, the heating effect from a constant resistance (your heater element) is an inverse square law so a reduced supply voltage will have a disproportionate effect upon the output temperature. The ideal way would be to measure the supply voltage and supply current, since you're unlikely to have a clamp-on ammeter we will have to measure only the voltage and make some assumptions.

If we assume the heater is 6kW @ 220V its resistance will be :- R = V²/P :- R = 220² / 6000 = 8.1 Ohms. We can use this to work out the power from the available supply voltage using V² / R

For an example, if we reduce the voltage to 200V (about 10% low, not unusual) the power developed will now be only 4,900 Watts (a 19% reduction).

More high-school physics when we get some numbers from our OP.

[Guitar God]

Well, the missing piece of the puzzle is the flow rate which is 6 liters per minute or about 0.1 liters per second. I have the electronics background but skipped physics classes to mater my instrument of choice-the triangle, no, I meant guitar.

My input voltage hovers between 210 and 220. I do have a clamp on ammeter and a Fluke true RMS recording voltmeter but they're both on the other side of the planet.

There was no pressure to buy another heater, they showed me a book with specs for another 6Kw heater and that one on high would put out 50C water max at 220vac.

The temp readings I got from the 4.5Kw unit in the other shower seem to agree with the output temp of the 6Kw and I think it's unlikely both units are fubar.

If I want hotter water it seems I'd need to put in a 9KW and upgrade the wiring to the bathroom and get a bigger breaker. I have two 126A boxes in the house and the room is question is serviced by a 32A breaker.

[Crossy]

Let's assume your voltage is 200 when the heater is running, so it's developing about 4,900 Watts.

0.1 Litres per second is 0.1 kg per second.

Specific heat capacity of water is 4,200 Joules / kg / ^oC

4,900 watts is 4,900 Joules per second.

So, if my sums are right, you should have a delta T of (4,900 / 4,200) / 0.1 = 11 ^oC

How hot do you really want your water, anything over 40^oC will feel very hot?

A 9kW unit will pull 41A at 220V and need 6mm² cable.

You could consider a tank type heater if you want loads of hot water, they're much easier on the power supply (but take time to heat up).

What size incoming supply do you have (marked on the meter)?

[Guitar God]

I looked on the meter and didn't see anything that looked like incoming supply other than single phase, two wire, class 2.0, 15(45) amps. The house is new and has a split SCU each with a 64A main breaker so I don't think a tank heater or bigger multitap heater is a problem there, the 9Kw model I think is the solution but it's on its own 32A breaker but I think I'd need to pull bigger wires to carry the current and upgrade the breaker. I'd like a tank heater but I can't think of any good place to hang it, under the sink there isn't enough space for one to fill the tub, I think it takes 400-500 liters.

I grew up with pretty high pressure showers and hot water you had to mix 50/50 with cold or it would burn you. I got spoiled at my last place, a condo in Europe where the shower was about half the pressure of a firehose and the water was steaming hot, dangerously hot, that's why I put temp controlled taps everywhere. I don't recall but I think it was over 60C.

47 isn't working for me, it feels just a little too cold here in the winter, summertime I think the inlet temp is 5 degrees or more higher and no problem with the temp then. Thanks for your help.

[Crossy]

OK your meter is a 15/45, that's a max load of 45A, they're usually fused (incoming breaker) at 50A or 63A.

If you really have two distribution boards with 63A incomers that are not fed from a single point of isolation I'm surprised the installation got past a PEA inspection (our PEA man wanted the 63A incomer replaced by a 50A).

In reality the meter will be fine with short term (don't take 2 hour showers) overload of 80A or so, so the 9kW would be ok. But watch what your incoming voltage does, remember the inverse-square law.