America's bizarre reaction to mass shootings

[ClutchClark]

Guy walks into a Walmart in Pennsylvania last night carrying an assault rifle and handguns. One guy's shot. The bad guy.

Wonder how it would have ended had he walked into a TESCO or a Carrefour armed like that?

http://fox13now.com/2015/12/12/gunman-shot-at-walmart-in-pennsylvania/

Except he can't buy assault rifles or handguns at a Tesco or Carrefour, or thousands of other locations.

Which is the main reason there are so many shootings.

Perhaps you're looking in the wrong direction.

http://www.cafe.com/6-times-a-good-guy-with-a-gun-stopped-a-mass-shooting-and-1450-times-a-bad-guy-with-a-gun-started-one/

There are over 357,000,000 guns in America. That is more guns than people.

How do you propose removing all those guns from the population?

Serious question.

And don't just bat those beautiful eyes of yours and think you can soft talk your way out of answering.

[Credo]

There are over 357,000,000 guns in America. That is more guns than people.

How do you propose removing all those guns from the population?

Carefully. Very, very carefully.

[sirineou]

Guy walks into a Walmart in Pennsylvania last night carrying an assault rifle and handguns. One guy's shot. The bad guy.

Wonder how it would have ended had he walked into a TESCO or a Carrefour armed like that?

http://fox13now.com/2015/12/12/gunman-shot-at-walmart-in-pennsylvania/

Except he can't buy assault rifles or handguns at a Tesco or Carrefour, or thousands of other locations.

Which is the main reason there are so many shootings.

Perhaps you're looking in the wrong direction.

http://www.cafe.com/6-times-a-good-guy-with-a-gun-stopped-a-mass-shooting-and-1450-times-a-bad-guy-with-a-gun-started-one/

There are over 357,000,000 guns in America. That is more guns than people.

How do you propose removing all those guns from the population?

Serious question.

And don't just bat those beautiful eyes of yours and think you can soft talk your way out of answering.

Nobody want's to remove the guns from the population, what we want is to make it more difficult for those who should not have them to get them. So here is the plan, we give more guns to those who should have them and less to those who should not same number of guns different proportions,

[ClutchClark]

There are over 357,000,000 guns in America. That is more guns than people.

How do you propose removing all those guns from the population?

Serious question.

And don't just bat those beautiful eyes of yours and think you can soft talk your way out of answering.

Nobody want's to remove the guns from the population, what we want is to make it more difficult for those who should not have them to get them.

So here is the plan, we give more gunns to those who should have them and less to those who should not

same number of guns different proportions,

OK. I get what you are saying but HOW?

I mean everybody wants to stop nutjobs from committing mass killings at gradeschools, cinemas, college campuses, army bases, etc...but how do you propose to do that?

The Muslim couple who just went ballistic in California bought their two pistols legally and also obtained their assault rifles legally from their neighbor. Does someone know if it was a straw purchase? I think the neighbor kept the rifles for a period of time so an attorney could get him off a straw purchase charge.

But the point is HOW do you propose to take guns away?

[CMNightRider]

You Actually believe that criminals are the only ones that kill others with guns...

Well, according to FBI crime statistics, criminals do tend to be the most troubling group that are running around shooting people. Apparently, over 300,000,000 legal gun owners didn't shoot anyone today.

[Thorgal]

You Actually believe that criminals are the only ones that kill others with guns...

Well, according to FBI crime statistics, criminals do tend to be the most troubling group that are running around shooting people. Apparently, over 300,000,000 legal gun owners didn't shoot anyone today.

You're wrong :

Perhaps you should consider this update.

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/last-72-hours

Interesting to see the revealing statistics on this link how many times law enforcement is involved in random shootings : 'not so much' but significant enough to conclude that guns speaks for justice, every day...in the US...

[chuckd]

You Actually believe that criminals are the only ones that kill others with guns...

Well, according to FBI crime statistics, criminals do tend to be the most troubling group that are running around shooting people. Apparently, over 300,000,000 legal gun owners didn't shoot anyone today.

You're wrong :

Perhaps you should consider this update.

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/last-72-hours

Interesting to see the revealing statistics on this link how many times law enforcement is involved in random shootings : 'not so much' but significant enough to conclude that guns speaks for justice, every day...in the US...

I just checked yet another Bloomberg site that uses their very own innovative ways to count "gun violence".

Of the 25 incidents reported in today's listing, in 5 of them there were no shots fired.

That means in 20% of the so called "gun violence" incidents during the past 72 hours, there was no "gun Violence" at all.

Rather than us having to consider your update, perhaps you should reconsider your source.

[Grouse]

There are over 357,000,000 guns in America. That is more guns than people.

How do you propose removing all those guns from the population?

Serious question.

And don't just bat those beautiful eyes of yours and think you can soft talk your way out of answering.

Nobody want's to remove the guns from the population, what we want is to make it more difficult for those who should not have them to get them.

So here is the plan, we give more gunns to those who should have them and less to those who should not

same number of guns different proportions,

OK. I get what you are saying but HOW?

I mean everybody wants to stop nutjobs from committing mass killings at gradeschools, cinemas, college campuses, army bases, etc...but how do you propose to do that?

The Muslim couple who just went ballistic in California bought their two pistols legally and also obtained their assault rifles legally from their neighbor. Does someone know if it was a straw purchase? I think the neighbor kept the rifles for a period of time so an attorney could get him off a straw purchase charge.

But the point is HOW do you propose to take guns away?

Easy

What is the one thing that Americans like more than guns?

MONEY

Just offer an absurd amount of cash per gun and get them off the street

Just print the money as usual

Basta!

[mopar71]

Crime in the USA is more violent than most other countries that have strict gun laws!

I disagree. There is a lot more to "violence" than just guns.

Plus, the vast majority of these "mass" shootings in American take place in communities with strict gun laws.

[lostboy]

You're wrong :

Perhaps you should consider this update.

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/last-72-hours

Interesting to see the revealing statistics on this link how many times law enforcement is involved in random shootings : 'not so much' but significant enough to conclude that guns speaks for justice, every day...in the US...

I just checked yet another Bloomberg site that uses their very own innovative ways to count "gun violence".

Of the 25 incidents reported in today's listing, in 5 of them there were no shots fired.

That means in 20% of the so called "gun violence" incidents during the past 72 hours, there was no "gun Violence" at all.

Rather than us having to consider your update, perhaps you should reconsider your source.

Thanks for clarifying. We can only use the term gun violence where there are dead bodies. And there have to be 3 or more dead bodies for the 'mass' qualifier to apply. Correct? Threats or intimidation while in possession of a weapon is a misdemeanour? Is there a number of bullets that need to be shot for the term to qualify also?

Good for everyone to be on the same page. Except of course for those who are dead or injured or traumatised. But hey, they're just a statistic and they're probably black or illegals anyway.

[sirineou]

You're wrong :

Perhaps you should consider this update.

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/last-72-hours

Interesting to see the revealing statistics on this link how many times law enforcement is involved in random shootings : 'not so much' but significant enough to conclude that guns speaks for justice, every day...in the US...

I just checked yet another Bloomberg site that uses their very own innovative ways to count "gun violence".

Of the 25 incidents reported in today's listing, in 5 of them there were no shots fired.

That means in 20% of the so called "gun violence" incidents during the past 72 hours, there was no "gun Violence" at all.

Rather than us having to consider your update, perhaps you should reconsider your source.

What is it, when someone uses a gun to rob and rape?

Does being pistol whipped count or do you need to be shot afterwards to count.

What has to happen for an incident to be considered gun violence?

[thaibeachlovers]

"America's bizarre reaction to mass shootings"..............and the ThaiVisa gun haters immature responses to America's mass shootings. You people need to get a life.

18 people within the last 5 days can't get a life anymore, because they are now dead!

Thanks to a country were every Tom, Dick and Harry is allowed to own an arsenal in the basement!

Including people on the terror watchlist, as we are finding out!

Get some empathy!

When people call for cars to be banned because they are dangerous and kill lots and lots of people I'll have some empathy. In the meantime ( and I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to happen ) if I lived in the US I'd have as many guns as I could afford for home defence.

[thaibeachlovers]

You Actually believe that criminals are the only ones that kill others with guns...

You actually think good people run out and get guns to kill other good people?

I actually think there are plenty of situations that "good people" can get angry and use the gun that they have like a "bad person" would. They are good until they are bad..that's kinda the point. Crime in the USA is more violent than most other countries that have strict gun laws!

Can you give any stats on that sort of crime, because I don't believe it?

All the mass shootings that have been publicised have been done by nutters or terrorists.

Yes, some die in mistakes and by careless storage of weapons, but the answer for the mistakes is better education, not by banning guns. Banning guns only leaves the law abiding citizen defenceless against the crims that have no problem obtaining them. However, I do support mandatory training for all gun owners. How many ex military have guns misused- very few I'd guess.

[chuckd]

You're wrong :

Perhaps you should consider this update.

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/last-72-hours

Interesting to see the revealing statistics on this link how many times law enforcement is involved in random shootings : 'not so much' but significant enough to conclude that guns speaks for justice, every day...in the US...

I just checked yet another Bloomberg site that uses their very own innovative ways to count "gun violence".

Of the 25 incidents reported in today's listing, in 5 of them there were no shots fired.

That means in 20% of the so called "gun violence" incidents during the past 72 hours, there was no "gun Violence" at all.

Rather than us having to consider your update, perhaps you should reconsider your source.

Thanks for clarifying. We can only use the term gun violence where there are dead bodies. And there have to be 3 or more dead bodies for the 'mass' qualifier to apply. Correct? Threats or intimidation while in possession of a weapon is a misdemeanour? Is there a number of bullets that need to be shot for the term to qualify also?

Good for everyone to be on the same page. Except of course for those who are dead or injured or traumatised.

Thanks for your post, just as ill-informed as many of your posts are.

1. " We can only use the term gun violence where there are dead bodies."

I suggest you look up the words "gun" and "violence", put the two words together and try to form a coherent thought. After you accomplish this task, search every word in my post and tell me where I said anything about a requirement for :dead bodies".

2. "And there have to be 3 or more dead bodies for the 'mass' qualifier to apply. Correct?

Incorrect! According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, FBI, the definition of a mass shooting in the US is where four or more deaths occur. The loony tunes site used by progressive liberals counts any incident where four or more were shot or wounded. Since this discussion concerns the US, why don't we try and qualify incidents in accordance with federal government procedure. Nobody cares what you Aussies do.

3. "Threats or intimidation while in possession of a weapon is a misdemeanour? Is there a number of bullets that need to be shot for the term to qualify also?"

See answer number 1 above.

4. "But hey, they're just a statistic and they're probably black or illegals anyway."

You're not far off with this wild guess.

During the 2013 year, there were a total of 3,005 white victims and a total of 2,491 Black or African American victims out of a total of 5,723 deaths by guns.

Considering the fact that the Black community only makes up 12.61% of the total population yet represented 43.53% of the deaths, you're not too far off with your snarky remark.

Also of interest, of the 2,491 black victims, 2,245 of them were shot by Blacks.

Keep trying, but do a little research first.

[ClutchClark]

Here is an example of a child who was tired of not getting ice cream and finally snapped:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/30/us/idaho-walmart-shooting-accident-mother-toddler/

Here is one where an otherwise law-abiding 4-year old didn't like getting spanked so took care of it Dirty Harry style:

http://www.walb.com/story/29814056/mother-shot-in-head-by-4-year-old-son-dies

Here is one Law Enforcement is trying to label an accident but witnesses said child was upset his Baby Elmo was removed from the dinner table:

http://m.wptz.com/news/toddler-accidentally-shoots-mother-at-lake-placid-apartment/35416506

In each of these incidence, an otherwise good toddler got angry and then got even.

[chuckd]

You're wrong :

Perhaps you should consider this update.

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/last-72-hours

Interesting to see the revealing statistics on this link how many times law enforcement is involved in random shootings : 'not so much' but significant enough to conclude that guns speaks for justice, every day...in the US...

I just checked yet another Bloomberg site that uses their very own innovative ways to count "gun violence".

Of the 25 incidents reported in today's listing, in 5 of them there were no shots fired.

That means in 20% of the so called "gun violence" incidents during the past 72 hours, there was no "gun Violence" at all.

Rather than us having to consider your update, perhaps you should reconsider your source.

What is it, when someone uses a gun to rob and rape?

Does being pistol whipped count or do you need to be shot afterwards to count.

What has to happen for an incident to be considered gun violence?

Google is your friend.

From Wikipedia:

"Gun violence is violence committed with the use of a gun (firearm or small arm). It may or may not be considered criminal. Criminal gun violence includes homicide (except when and where ruled justifiable), assault with a deadly weapon, and suicide, or attempted suicide, depending onjurisdiction. Non-criminal gun violence may include accidental or unintentional injury or death. Included in this subject are statistics regarding military or para-military activities, as well as the actions of civilians."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence

I hope this clears up your confusion.

[ClutchClark]

In fairness, I support private gun ownership in the US (except I wish we had not allowed the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban to expire).

At the same time, I have seen far too many instances of irresponsible gun ownership where owners allow their firearms to be stolen or, much worse, leave their CCW within access of their young children.

Education does not always work.

But no one has yet answered how they hope to remove almost 350,000,000 firearms from America.

[thaibeachlovers]

Here is an example of a child who was tired of not getting ice cream and finally snapped:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/30/us/idaho-walmart-shooting-accident-mother-toddler/

Here is one where an otherwise law-abiding 4-year old didn't like getting spanked so took care of it Dirty Harry style:

http://www.walb.com/story/29814056/mother-shot-in-head-by-4-year-old-son-dies

Here is one Law Enforcement is trying to label an accident but witnesses said child was upset his Baby Elmo was removed from the dinner table:

http://m.wptz.com/news/toddler-accidentally-shoots-mother-at-lake-placid-apartment/35416506

In each of these incidence, an otherwise good toddler got angry and then got even.

Which is why we don't allow children to drive cars and shouldn't allow them anywhere near guns. Education is the key to the latter.

[sirineou]

In fairness, I support private gun ownership in the US (except I wish we had not allowed the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban to expire).

At the same time, I have seen far too many instances of irresponsible gun ownership where owners allow their firearms to be stolen or, much worse, leave their CCW within access of their young children.

Education does not always work.

But no one has yet answered how they hope to remove almost 350,000,000 firearms from America.

Giant magnet, like the one they use in wrecking yards but much much bigger.

Let it hung on top of the door of places that sell viagra and and happy ending massage parlors, you know where people with small wink wink and big guns congregate

aside from some pasemaker wearing casualties, what else could go wrong? .

[ClutchClark]

Here is an example of a child who was tired of not getting ice cream and finally snapped:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/30/us/idaho-walmart-shooting-accident-mother-toddler/

Here is one where an otherwise law-abiding 4-year old didn't like getting spanked so took care of it Dirty Harry style:

http://www.walb.com/story/29814056/mother-shot-in-head-by-4-year-old-son-dies

Here is one Law Enforcement is trying to label an accident but witnesses said child was upset his Baby Elmo was removed from the dinner table:

http://m.wptz.com/news/toddler-accidentally-shoots-mother-at-lake-placid-apartment/35416506

In each of these incidence, an otherwise good toddler got angry and then got even.

Which is why we don't allow children to drive cars and shouldn't allow them anywhere near guns. Education is the key to the latter.

TBL,

I think two of these adult gunowners had taken their ststes Concealed Carry Courses and Passed.

Obviously education on gun safety and handling did not work.

Why do housewives with infants need to "carry" in a Wal-Mart in Idaho? Obviously the greatest risk to health is accidentsl discharge or an infant getting ahold of the gun left in the top of the diaper bag next to the pacifier...not the boogey man.

Having grown up on a rural farm in CO almost 80 years ago, I was shooting by age 5 and had my first Daisy Red Rider before that. Had a 30-30 in my pickup truck back window for over 40 years along with all my neighbors. They were for varmints of the 4-legged variety. I have owned firearms all my life and I feel no need to carry a gun anywhere but the woods. Gun "culture" has changed--its fashion now--there are pink guns. Guns are a fashion statement. Hunters today carry military style assault rifles. If you need a full magazine to hit an animal you have no busoness hunting. The gun culture I grew up in is gone and this new gun culture of mothers with pistols in the diaper bag is ridiculous.

Education is obviously not enough.

And to hell with the NRA. I have had no use for them since they supported Claude Lafayette Dallas after he killed those two Game Wardens. there are plenty of organizations that are more middle ground than that outfit.

Regards

[thaibeachlovers]

Quote function not working.

Replying to #233.

I meant education in safe gun ownership for LAWFUL owners ie how not to let children get hold of your gun etc.

If someone is bent on committing mayhem, obviously education will not stop them, but I was not referring to them.

[thaibeachlovers]

BTW, now guns can be manufactured by 3D printing, no amount of laws will prevent anyone obtaining a weapon, and with no background checks etc etc. Once again, the politicians are showing their lack of knowledge as to the tech age, and have no clue how to regulate it.

[ClutchClark]

Quote function not working.

Replying to #233.

I meant education in safe gun ownership for LAWFUL owners ie how not to let children get hold of your gun etc.

If someone is bent on committing mayhem, obviously education will not stop them, but I was not referring to them.

Gotcha. Fully agree.

Education is key. Refresher courses are essential.

Range days should be mandatory on a semi-annual basis.

[sirineou]

Quote function not working.

Replying to #233.

I meant education in safe gun ownership for LAWFUL owners ie how not to let children get hold of your gun etc.

If someone is bent on committing mayhem, obviously education will not stop them, but I was not referring to them.

Education is certainly an important component of the solution, people need to be educated to drive a car, or cut hair, why not gun ownership. In fact I think it should be a requirement.

[ClutchClark]

BTW, now guns can be manufactured by 3D printing, no amount of laws will prevent anyone obtaining a weapon, and with no background checks etc etc. Once again, the politicians are showing their lack of knowledge as to the tech age, and have no clue how to regulate it.

This is some really amazing technology but fortunately it still requires a high end 3D printer and not the variety you can buy at Home Depot.

I believe it is a federsl offense to own a gun made entirely from 3D components so you will have the ATF knocking on your door just as if you sawed off the barrel of your shotgun...and penalties are just as severe. IIRC atleast one part has to be made of an alloy.

But the CAD drawings are out there but its still alot easier to find a gun elsewhere and there is still the issue of ammunition. Some States require a State Issued Firearm Permit to purchase ammunition and maybe thats a good idea.

Have you ever read how many guns are stolen each year? Atleast 200,000.

People who allow their firearms to be stolen should go to jail.

[NeverSure]

Quote function not working.

Replying to #233.

I meant education in safe gun ownership for LAWFUL owners ie how not to let children get hold of your gun etc.

If someone is bent on committing mayhem, obviously education will not stop them, but I was not referring to them.

Gotcha. Fully agree.

Education is key. Refresher courses are essential.

Range days should be mandatory on a semi-annual basis.

I don't see how range days are going to keep guns out of the hands of children. I would severely punish any adult who left a gun where a child got it, just as I would we do to adults who let children drive or provide them with alcohol.

Owning a gun isn't a privilege I have to earn by going to your range. It's a right enshrined in the Constitution. Driving, by contrast, is considered a privilege under the law and training, testing, licensing and even insurance can be and are required. We have no constitutional right to drive.

Above, someone mentioned military rifles being used for hunting. I know of no state that allows licensed big game hunting with a gun that holds more than 5 rounds in the magazine + 1 in the chamber. So go ahead and hunt with that military rifle but you'll need to find a 5 round mag for it. When you use that mag the gun becomes no more or less military than a beautiful Remington 7400. It's just uglier than the Remington.

Cheers.

Remington 7400:

[Thorgal]

Quote function not working.

Replying to #233.

I meant education in safe gun ownership for LAWFUL owners ie how not to let children get hold of your gun etc.

If someone is bent on committing mayhem, obviously education will not stop them, but I was not referring to them.

Gotcha. Fully agree.

Education is key. Refresher courses are essential.

Range days should be mandatory on a semi-annual basis.

I don't see how range days are going to keep guns out of the hands of children. I would severely punish any adult who left a gun where a child got it, just as I would we do to adults who let children drive or provide them with alcohol.

Owning a gun isn't a privilege I have to earn by going to your range. It's a right enshrined in the Constitution. Driving, by contrast, is considered a privilege under the law and training, testing, licensing and even insurance can be and are required. We have no constitutional right to drive.

Above, someone mentioned military rifles being used for hunting. I know of no state that allows licensed big game hunting with a gun that holds more than 5 rounds in the magazine + 1 in the chamber. So go ahead and hunt with that military rifle but you'll need to find a 5 round mag for it. When you use that mag the gun becomes no more or less military than a beautiful Remington 7400. It's just uglier than the Remington.

Cheers.

Remington 7400:

aa114.jpg

aa114a.jpg

No state perhaps allowed +5 rounds magazine, but the 30 rounds AR-15 magazines are available online :

As example :

http://gunmagwarehouse.com/promag-ar-15-223-5-56-30-round-polymer-magazine-black-col-a18.html

[NeverSure]

No state perhaps allowed +5 rounds magazine, but the 30 rounds AR-15 magazines are available online :

As example :

http://gunmagwarehouse.com/promag-ar-15-223-5-56-30-round-polymer-magazine-black-col-a18.html

The comment I replied to was about hunting. You can't take that gun hunting if it holds more than 5+1 rounds. California is the only state "I know of" that restricts legal magazines to a capacity of ten rounds. Elsewhere the 30 round magazine is legal afaik. It is where I am.

Please allow me to remind you that I don't own that gun for hunting. I own it for self defense. I make no apologies for the fact that it holds 30 rounds.

Cheers.

[sirineou]

No state perhaps allowed +5 rounds magazine, but the 30 rounds AR-15 magazines are available online :

As example :

http://gunmagwarehouse.com/promag-ar-15-223-5-56-30-round-polymer-magazine-black-col-a18.html

The comment I replied to was about hunting. You can't take that gun hunting if it holds more than 5+1 rounds. California is the only state "I know of" that restricts legal magazines to a capacity of ten rounds. Elsewhere the 30 round magazine is legal afaik. It is where I am.

Please allow me to remind you that I don't own that gun for hunting. I own it for self defense. I make no apologies for the fact that it holds 30 rounds.

Cheers.

The only apologies you will need to make would be to the 30 people it kills if your gun get's in the hands of some one who should not have it

Why do you need a 30 round clip to defend yourself? do you expect 30 criminals to attack you? or are you to lazy to change clips

or are you NeverSure?

Edited December 25, 2015 by sirineou

[NeverSure]

No state perhaps allowed +5 rounds magazine, but the 30 rounds AR-15 magazines are available online :

As example :

http://gunmagwarehouse.com/promag-ar-15-223-5-56-30-round-polymer-magazine-black-col-a18.html

The comment I replied to was about hunting. You can't take that gun hunting if it holds more than 5+1 rounds. California is the only state "I know of" that restricts legal magazines to a capacity of ten rounds. Elsewhere the 30 round magazine is legal afaik. It is where I am.

Please allow me to remind you that I don't own that gun for hunting. I own it for self defense. I make no apologies for the fact that it holds 30 rounds.

Cheers.

The only apologies you will need to make would be to the 30 people it kills if your gun get's in the hands of some one who should not have it

Why do you need a 30 round clip to defend yourself? do you expect 30 criminals to attack you? or are you to lazy to change clips

or are you NeverSure?

You don't know the very real difference between an ammo clip and an ammo magazine for a rifle yet you're the expert.

My guns and ammo are locked in a gun safe except for what is with me.

Yes if there are riots and burning of neighborhoods as do happen occasionally I'm going to protect myself and my home. I'll have some help from my neighbors. Riots, looting and burning aren't my imagination; they happen sometimes. Just not in my neighborhood, at least not for long.

There are going to be such riots and carnage in Europe during my lifetime and the people will be helpless. I can see it coming, and when it happens I'll feel really bad but all I'll be able to do is think "I told you so".

Cheers.