Thailand gun death rate TWICE as high as US

[PHP87]

Why are is there never any hysteria over these weapons that kill people all the time?

Line 'em up portray them as the Evil Killing Machines that they are.

I guess guns go "BANG" though, which makes them more scary.

Congratulations on the dumbest question so far. When was the last time you read about someone killing 16 people in a crowd with a machete?

It happens in China fairly often.

You want to ban knives too?

[lvr181]

One can cherry-pick statistics to support any argument.

The principal difference seems to be the access to semi-automatic and automatic weapons in the US. These weapons have only one purpose - killing people. To pretend they are hunting weapons is ridiculous. A good roo shooter in Australia will account for 50 roos in a night's hunting, armed only with a bolt-action rifle. I've been hunting with a rabbit shooter using a single shot 0.22 who head-shot 150 rabbits in one night. He would have regarded any automatics as butchery.

I haven't heard of mass shootings in Thailand. I assume that's because semi and full automatics are restricted to the military.

After the Port Arthur massacre in 1992, the ownership of semi-automatic and automatic was severely restricted. Australia hasn't had a mass shooting since.

Switzerland is frequently cited as an example of high gun ownership without gun crime. What the users of this datum neglect to mention is gun owners in Switzerland have to renew their permits once/month.

The Sandy Hook mass shooting proved to me American gun supporters are insane. The response to the shooting of 20 children was an upsurge in gun sales. If anything was going to bring about a rethink of the Second Amendment, that event was it.

Winston Churchill once said Americans usually get to the right solution, after they have tried all other options. Sadly, in the case of American gun ideology, so far he's wrong.

I never claimed my guns were for hunting. You don't seem to understand that the Second Amendment that allows Americans to have guns is for defense against people.

The recent terrorist shooting in S. California caused an immediate near record surge in gun sales among the people. Gun sales to the general public about doubled overnight. You aren't going to get those people to agree with you either.

I'm not going to further debate it with you. It's actually none of your business.

Cheers.

And since the Second Amendment allowing Americans to have guns as a defense against people, has this curtailed "terrorism" from internal or external sources?

[cumgranosalum]

Why are is there never any hysteria over these weapons that kill people all the time?

Line 'em up portray them as the Evil Killing Machines that they are.

I guess guns go "BANG" though, which makes them more scary.

Congratulations on the dumbest question so far. When was the last time you read about someone killing 16 people in a crowd with a machete?

It happens in China fairly often.

You want to ban knives too?

They are all banned in the UK.

[cumgranosalum]

One can cherry-pick statistics to support any argument.

The principal difference seems to be the access to semi-automatic and automatic weapons in the US. These weapons have only one purpose - killing people. To pretend they are hunting weapons is ridiculous. A good roo shooter in Australia will account for 50 roos in a night's hunting, armed only with a bolt-action rifle. I've been hunting with a rabbit shooter using a single shot 0.22 who head-shot 150 rabbits in one night. He would have regarded any automatics as butchery.

I haven't heard of mass shootings in Thailand. I assume that's because semi and full automatics are restricted to the military.

After the Port Arthur massacre in 1992, the ownership of semi-automatic and automatic was severely restricted. Australia hasn't had a mass shooting since.

Switzerland is frequently cited as an example of high gun ownership without gun crime. What the users of this datum neglect to mention is gun owners in Switzerland have to renew their permits once/month.

The Sandy Hook mass shooting proved to me American gun supporters are insane. The response to the shooting of 20 children was an upsurge in gun sales. If anything was going to bring about a rethink of the Second Amendment, that event was it.

Winston Churchill once said Americans usually get to the right solution, after they have tried all other options. Sadly, in the case of American gun ideology, so far he's wrong.

I never claimed my guns were for hunting. You don't seem to understand that the Second Amendment that allows Americans to have guns is for defense against people.

The recent terrorist shooting in S. California caused an immediate near record surge in gun sales among the people. Gun sales to the general public about doubled overnight. You aren't going to get those people to agree with you either.

I'm not going to further debate it with you. It's actually none of your business.

Cheers.

Second amendment....funny how so many cite that as a justification for carrying any kind of firearm.....it doesn't actually say that ...and its ASN amemendment...and its 200 years out of date.

You need to find a better excuse than that.

Edited December 12, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

One big thing here is the southern insurgency. I'm not sure how much it contributes to this but it skews the average a lot.

the southern insurgency does not equal one night in south central Los Angeles.

guns_per_person_vs._gun_homicide_rate_1993_to_2013_0.jpgpercent_changes_since_1993_-_number_of_firearms_vs._gun_homicide_rate_1993-2013.png

Yes - the words are alarming when you're shouting out headlines and make the US into the wild wild west to create hysteria and whipping boys - however the statistics show otherwise....

The stas apparently have included the violence in the South as it doesn't/can't separate political assassination from gangland killings.

Unlike in Libya when collecting road death stats.

[bazza40]

It seems you really insist on calling people names...

"Sorry, I don't click on links provided by people I don't know." Fair and square, but do you at least trust google.co.th? If yes, then try the argument "Whimsical Gun Control Leaves Colombians Defenseless", first hit.

In an earlier post I was mentioning several layers of this problem ("mass shooting"). One of these, which is interestingly and overwhelmingly ignored by the MSM, could be legal(!) drugs.

"Nearly every mass shooting incident in the last twenty years, and multiple other instances of suicide and isolated shootings all share one thing in common, and its not the weapons used.

The overwhelming evidence points to the signal [sic] largest common factor in all of these incidents is the fact that all of the perpetrators were either actively taking powerful psychotropic drugs or had been at some point in the immediate past before they committed their crimes."

Google.co.th search argument: "Nearly every mass shooting incident in the last twenty years", first hit.

(For everybody else who trusts me: http://www.ammoland.com/2013/04/every-mass-shooting-in-the-last-20-years-shares-psychotropic-drugs/)

So could it be, that one cause for these effects (feeling the urge to kill colleagues or even strangers) is supported by mind altering drugs? Wouldn't it be worth it, also in the interest of the patients, to at least seriously investigate this evidence? Why not fight a cause instead of the effect? Not only would it make sense, it would also be easier and quicker to implement than changing the constitution (Or removing an amendment for that matter).

Btw., do you remember Norway 2011, gun free zone?

Meanwhile, you know the drill: Google.co.th, "2011 Norway attacks", first hit.

(Everybody else:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks)

Finally Switzerland - as we all seem to love statistics -, gun ownership rate around 25%: Google.co.th, "Gun politics in Switzerland", first hit.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland)

That means I also had my assault rifle, including a full set of ammunition, for about 20 years at home with me. As I never felt the urge to kill anybody I must be one of the good guys. No? But I also confess that I was never abused with SSRI drugs.

Last remark to make a long story short: TIT. Guys, we are in Thailand! Does anybody else, except me of course, really think, that changing gun policies here would have any effect, would make anybody a tiny little bit safer?

So now the red herring is mood-altering drugs. Getting them out of society would be even more difficult than taking guns out of cold dead hands. How many billions has America spent on trying to eradicate illicit drugs, and how effective has that been?

It's obviously a waste of time attempting to discuss an issue with someone whose beliefs are firmly entrenched. Human beings have a deep-seated talent for self-deception: the ability to ignore, deny and rationalise away information or logic that challenges our perceptions or convictions.

The seventeenth century philosopher Voltaire's words are depressingly valid today:

"The human brain is a complex organ with the wonderful power of enabling man to find reasons for continuing to believe whatever it is that he wants to believe."

[mark131v]

This guy perfectly captures the gun problem in the US and shoots it down in flames...

Go on NeverSure, Andreas and co educate yourselves...

Edited December 13, 2015 by mark131v

[Andreas2]

So now the red herring is mood-altering drugs. Getting them out of society would be even more difficult than taking guns out of cold dead hands. How many billions has America spent on trying to eradicate illicit drugs, and how effective has that been?

It's obviously a waste of time attempting to discuss an issue with someone whose beliefs are firmly entrenched. Human beings have a deep-seated talent for self-deception: the ability to ignore, deny and rationalise away information or logic that challenges our perceptions or convictions.

The seventeenth century philosopher Voltaire's words are depressingly valid today:

"The human brain is a complex organ with the wonderful power of enabling man to find reasons for continuing to believe whatever it is that he wants to believe."

http://bazza40's best arguments

and

https://bazza40 is a great debater

[Andreas2]

This guy perfectly captures the gun problem in the US and shoots it down in flames...

Go on NeverSure, Andreas and co educate yourselves...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rR9IaXH1M0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9UFyNy-rw4

Now at least I know where you guys get your education from... comedians.

Sorry, sorry, I know, this was really unfair and a cheap one - I couldn't resist, it was just too easy and tempting. Sorry again, no offence intended, seriously.

Thank you for the two clips. Jim Jefferies seems to be a really funny guy and I was very well entertained, please believe me, I'm serious now. Thank you again.

I'm sure you know George Carlin, one of the greatest entertainers who unfortunately had to go much too early. But of course, that's just my humble opinion. Anyway, here is a clip where he makes fun of the NRA / gun enthusiasts. I'm sure - no I promise - you will love it as much as I do (unfortunately the clip is only 97 secs but they are really worth it): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPDuYXGAuBw

Cheers and have a relaxing Sunday

[pegman]

Why are is there never any hysteria over these weapons that kill people all the time?

Line 'em up portray them as the Evil Killing Machines that they are.

I guess guns go "BANG" though, which makes them more scary.

That's just silly. Guns are a cowards way of killing, as they can do it from a 'safe' distance.

With a knife you must get up close and personal with your intended victim, who may be able to turn the tables on you.

Most Thais are cowards, especially if alone.

So are Americans with their drone operators hid away in some warehouse in Vegas. True heros at war like Kerry are snubbed by the cracker faction will baby killers dropping bombs from 40,000" like McCain are their heros. Or war mongering chicken hawks like Bush, Ailes, Tom Clancy, Glen Beck, Charles Koch, John Wayne, Karl Rove, Wolfowitz and Cheney,

Edited December 13, 2015 by pegman

[LomSak27]

I understand most posters would rather talk about America, and who wouldn't?

However as this is a Thai forum and the post is about Thailand. For the last 20 years every death rate, homicide, handgun fatality statistics I have seen puts Thailand at a higher rate than the US (per capita). So this is very old news and something we all know ... at least us who live here and not the hired deflectors and troll action squad members who seem to be moving here in great numbers, meh

In fact according to some Thai government workers I know they claim the rate's are actually worse than published because A) The BiB assign a high number of mysterious deaths to "natural causes" or "suicide" which other countries would consider homicides and missing persons who never re-appear do not get added to these statistics and ether do bodies unearthed or found years later, AKA skeletal remains.

I take it we all accept these statements as fact, and can get back to the more important matter of debating gun control and mass killings in the USA

Go Team

.

Edited December 13, 2015 by LomSak27

[CMNightRider]

This guy perfectly captures the gun problem in the US and shoots it down in flames...

Go on NeverSure, Andreas and co educate yourselves...

This guy is nothing more than a not so funny Australian comedian. What he says or thinks has no meaning regarding law abiding Americans being able to own firearms. It is interesting that Thailand has a gun death rate twice as high as the U.S. per capita.

[brutox]

10 million known guns, Peaceful Buddists?

.

.. it is a bit disconcerting, isn't it clockman .. but, it is also a bit misleading.

.. Thais overwhelmingly appear as Buddhist .. however, their brand of Buddhism is a special brand called Theravada Buddhism, in which there are departures from the Buddhism practiced elsewhere in the world.

.. the fact is, most knowledgeable Thailand enthusiasts agree that Thais are more animist than they are Buddhist.

.. this partly explains, to me at least, many Thai behaviors.

.

Edited December 13, 2015 by brutox

[mark131v]

This guy perfectly captures the gun problem in the US and shoots it down in flames...

Go on NeverSure, Andreas and co educate yourselves...

This guy is nothing more than a not so funny Australian comedian. What he says or thinks has no meaning regarding law abiding Americans being able to own firearms. It is interesting that Thailand has a gun death rate twice as high as the U.S. per capita.

And that right there is the crux of the problem as people like you are unable to listen to facts, Jim nailed it some people just like guns and think their right to own their own penis extension is more important than a child or other innocents right to life. It really isn't that hard but as soon as you mention this to certain members of US society they instantly get sand in their vagina's and throw a hissy fit, it would be funny if it wasn't so tragic....

[bangrak]

Why are is there never any hysteria over these weapons that kill people all the time?

Line 'em up portray them as the Evil Killing Machines that they are.

I guess guns go "BANG" though, which makes them more scary.

Congratulations on the dumbest question so far. When was the last time you read about someone killing 16 people in a crowd with a machete?

I can remember it (horribly) well from Burundi, saw more recent pics from D.R. Congo... (Is it the whisky making you rude 'CaptHaddock'?)

[LomSak27]

Still way to much talk about Thailand in this Thai news post OP! I think we need to set the downriggers a little deeper and go for the big ones.

USA gun control is still a fantastically effective lure, and we have Burundi with the early stages of ethnic killings.

Lets Go Team!

[TomJoad]

10 million known guns, Peaceful Buddists?

.

.. it is a bit disconcerting, isn't it clockman .. but, it is also a bit misleading.

.. Thais overwhelmingly appear as Buddhist .. however, their brand of Buddhism is a special brand called Theravada Buddhism, in which there are departures from the Buddhism practiced elsewhere in the world.

.. the fact is, most knowledgeable Thailand enthusiasts agree that Thais are more animist than they are Buddhist.

.. this partly explains, to me at least, many Thai behaviors.

.

Hum.. I thought Theravada Buddhism was more like the original form of Buddhism and Zen was the departure.

[Zolt]

One big thing here is the southern insurgency. I'm not sure how much it contributes to this but it skews the average a lot.

Would be interesting to know how many gun deaths are from the South, and how many from the rest of the country. In the rest of Thailand you sometimes hear of a hired gun paid to get rid of a business rival or a drunk off-duty officer pulling a gun, but these are fairly rare. Death count from the Southern insurgency averages around 5-600 per year. These statistics imply that there were close to 5000 deaths from guns in 2013 in Thailand, so at least 4000 of those were outside of the South. Surely we'd hear of some in the news even with the current level of censorship?

Strangely enough, the reported total homicide rate for Thailand is only 5 per 100 000 for 2012 (Or 3300 total) according to World Bank, so I'm not sure how reliable that gun homicide figure can be.

[kiwikeith]

havent you heard that guns increase the size of your pecker, also makes you a man and saves face really well. With a combination of these things no wonder there are so many gun deaths here.

Saving face is probably the main reason , coupled with road rage , BF jealousy and whyskey.

And of course that they can get their hands on them.

[micmichd]

Why are is there never any hysteria over these weapons that kill people all the time?

Line 'em up portray them as the Evil Killing Machines that they are.

I guess guns go "BANG" though, which makes them more scary.

Congratulations on the dumbest question so far. When was the last time you read about someone killing 16 people in a crowd with a machete?

It happens in China fairly often.

You want to ban knives too?

Do you kill each other with knives for supper?

[LomSak27]

Can we get another copied image of machetes up on the board?!

Thanks

[DavidBonnie]

Finally Thailand tops a list! Well done Thailand!

Why are guns vilified more than knives?

If you have ever been a soldier you would not need to ask that question. Essentially, guns give the killer distance from the victim.

Knives are up close and bloody. People will resist.

During the Northern Ireland conflict Britain's gun death statistics were not 'skewed'.

I have said it before; a gun murder or other kind of murder can start here from the most inconsequential of events where 'face' is concerned.

Thais are emotionally immature people who cannot control themselves and rarely learn to master their temper . . .when they are not bowing and scraping to their 'superiors'.

[jpinx]

Thais are emotionally immature people who cannot control themselves and rarely learn to master their temper . . .when they are not bowing and scraping to their 'superiors'.

You could say that a large proportion of US people are emotionally immature - incapable of controlling their "urges" to own a gun......

[Ireland32]

Thais are emotionally immature people who cannot control themselves and rarely learn to master their temper . . .when they are not bowing and scraping to their 'superiors'.

You could say that a large proportion of US people are emotionally immature - incapable of controlling their "urges" to own a gun......

u could also say ur "Yank Bashing"

[jpinx]

Thais are emotionally immature people who cannot control themselves and rarely learn to master their temper . . .when they are not bowing and scraping to their 'superiors'.

You could say that a large proportion of US people are emotionally immature - incapable of controlling their "urges" to own a gun......

u could also say ur "Yank Bashing"

I take your point, but it's more a case of ... "If the cap fits........."

[cumgranosalum]

Why are is there never any hysteria over these weapons that kill people all the time?

Line 'em up portray them as the Evil Killing Machines that they are.

I guess guns go "BANG" though, which makes them more scary.

Congratulations on the dumbest question so far. When was the last time you read about someone killing 16 people in a crowd with a machete?

It happens in China fairly often.

You want to ban knives too?

They are mostly banned in UK. - "offensive weapon"

Try and enter the EU with one of those.........

Edited December 21, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[Boycie]

This video was uploaded yesterday.

[ALFREDO]

IF so - then Wikipedia sees that different

Firearm-related death rate per 100,000 population per year Country

United States

10.54 homicides and suicides (2014)

3.43 homicides ) and 6.69 suicides with guns = highest suicide rate with guns in the world :-/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

United States

3,8 homicide rate with any weapon, or without weapon per 100.000 inhabitants 2013

Thailand

5 homicide rate with any weapon, or without weapon per 100.000 inhabitants 2011

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

So, 3,8 x 2 = 7,6 NO?

That thread title and that report is wrong!

Realize, I wrote that already once in that thread and =ORAC= knows it also! lol

"Posted 2015-12-13 01:08:16

Orac, on 11 Dec 2015 - 12:09, said:

Its not those dodgy Nationmaster stats that crop up every year or so again is it?

I think same you.

https://en.wikipedia...l_homicide_rate

Shows Thailand has 5 homicides by any weapon or without weapon p. 100.000 people so how does that compare to the COCO "Nuts" report of Thai homicides of 7,48 only with guns alone per 100.000 people?

Rubbish that "NUTS" report. "

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/877806-thailand-gun-death-rate-twice-as-high-as-us/page-10

Edited April 30, 2016 by ALFREDO

[jpinx]

The numbers are hopelessly skewed all the way from the initial reports of a death through the multiple classification filters applied by the powers-that-be in each country. The only people who believe a statistical report are those whose viewpoint is supported by that report

[MaiChai]

just so i can keep on living, i always assume any Thai I interact with has a gun.

it is a good habit i picked up living in parts of the US where citizens can legally carry concealed guns to defend themselves.

i am thinking you would see way more fights and assaults between Thais if it was not for the fear of getting your head blown off.

and in a country where there are no police you can rely on the help you it is almost a necessity.

This is very good advice. For those of you who think its the right thing to do to jump into someone else arguement and break it up, you might want to think again.