UK exit from European Union on a knife edge, poll shows

[stevenl]

These 'little Englanders' - how I hate them! Neo-fascist supporters of UKIP, doubtless! That should get me some unwarranted responses, I sincerely hope!
The EU - one of the greatest political and economic unions of all time and the dear 'little Englanders' think that the UK is still the centre of the universe and can 'go it alone' in the fight against terrorism and economic survival.
Bird brains - all of them!

oh, how I like your quote and how right you are. These Brits are still dreaming of their Empire. They can't accept to be No 2 or 3 in Europe and this only because they are members of EU. If they leave EU they will shrink to real size, just a little lawn gnome.

Not realy fair to slag off a race of people who created most of the developed world without stating where you come from is it?

what kind of race do you mean? If you refer to Brits: what is left from their "Empire" and why they lost it? Because they exploited other nations and races just for their own benefit. And after all they were thrown out. Could happen now again. The EU might kick them out. It's a shame but they are resistant to learn from history!


they lost it because the nations that were part of the british empire became developed because of british rule ,
then wanted their independence. Its called evolution . Still slag of my country but you seem to ashamed to name the country you come from ?

Ah, so they should thank the British for their occupation and thank them for their development.

[dazzz]

These types of threads always bring out the worst in people, especially when it's a British topic. The yanks think they have it bad but EVERYONE loves to bash the Brits, or the English to be more precise. There is no discussion, just pure unbridled bitching.

Bottom line, people are sick and tired of being dictated to by a foreign entity; a club which has burgeoned from what was signed up to as the common market that now controls most facets of life. We didn't sign up to that, and I most certainly didn't. The UK is a small island running out of space fast, services are struggling to cope and the EU cats just want to keep on shovelling the people in. Enough is enough, whatever is costs, even if, as some of you uninformed folk seem to think, it will lead the country to ruin. I'd rather have the latter and control of my backyard than ever closer ties to essentially being a diluted state. What's the point! It's not about wanting to be better than anyone or delusion of grandeur of days of empire etc (stroll on... whatever, most Brits couldn't give a monkeys about any of that past). Anyway, bash away haters, I'm done with this predictable thread.

I see you got difficulties to accept that all what comes from Brussel is the result of consense. Brussel's administration rules out what even you Brits agreed. So don't complain. Once you have signed a contract you have to fulfill and follow the rules. To make it easy for you to understand: If you are going to get a loan from a bank you are happy if you get it, but you have also to accept their rules in repayment and interest.

So if you leave EU you have to accept higher import taxes and also that your products are not competitive with EU products because of taxes/customs. Subsidies will be gone as well. So for me it's hard to see some blindfolded people on this small island. Open your eyes!

I just can't wait to see the look on the little englanders faces when they find out, no longer part of the EU, find the French gendarmes at Calais shrugging their shoulders and pointing out to the refugees that 'angleterre is over there'.

Cooperation gone: It will be one way to lessen the EU's migrant load, that is for sure.

Do you know nothing . Are you completely ignorant of uk . I am welsh and not a little englander which makes you obnoxiuous and racist . The only reason they are there is because of eec rules . The reason why we want to leave the eec is we can tell the illegal imingrants to stay in france or go home . They will never get to uk if we have our own control

[sawadee1947]

These types of threads always bring out the worst in people, especially when it's a British topic. The yanks think they have it bad but EVERYONE loves to bash the Brits, or the English to be more precise. There is no discussion, just pure unbridled bitching.

Bottom line, people are sick and tired of being dictated to by a foreign entity; a club which has burgeoned from what was signed up to as the common market that now controls most facets of life. We didn't sign up to that, and I most certainly didn't. The UK is a small island running out of space fast, services are struggling to cope and the EU cats just want to keep on shovelling the people in. Enough is enough, whatever is costs, even if, as some of you uninformed folk seem to think, it will lead the country to ruin. I'd rather have the latter and control of my backyard than ever closer ties to essentially being a diluted state. What's the point! It's not about wanting to be better than anyone or delusion of grandeur of days of empire etc (stroll on... whatever, most Brits couldn't give a monkeys about any of that past). Anyway, bash away haters, I'm done with this predictable thread.

I see you got difficulties to accept that all what comes from Brussel is the result of consense. Brussel's administration rules out what even you Brits agreed. So don't complain. Once you have signed a contract you have to fulfill and follow the rules. To make it easy for you to understand: If you are going to get a loan from a bank you are happy if you get it, but you have also to accept their rules in repayment and interest.

So if you leave EU you have to accept higher import taxes and also that your products are not competitive with EU products because of taxes/customs. Subsidies will be gone as well. So for me it's hard to see some blindfolded people on this small island. Open your eyes!

I just can't wait to see the look on the little englanders faces when they find out, no longer part of the EU, find the French gendarmes at Calais shrugging their shoulders and pointing out to the refugees that 'angleterre is over there'.

Cooperation gone: It will be one way to lessen the EU's migrant load, that is for sure.

Do you know nothing . Are you completely ignorant of uk . I am welsh and not a little englander which makes you obnoxiuous and racist . The only reason they are there is because of eec rules . The reason why we want to leave the eec is we can tell the illegal imingrants to stay in france or go home . They will never get to uk if we have our own control

what the heck is "eec" ?

Are you really so old or just illiterate?

[dutchisaan]

These types of threads always bring out the worst in people, especially when it's a British topic. The yanks think they have it bad but EVERYONE loves to bash the Brits, or the English to be more precise. There is no discussion, just pure unbridled bitching.

Bottom line, people are sick and tired of being dictated to by a foreign entity; a club which has burgeoned from what was signed up to as the common market that now controls most facets of life. We didn't sign up to that, and I most certainly didn't. The UK is a small island running out of space fast, services are struggling to cope and the EU cats just want to keep on shovelling the people in. Enough is enough, whatever is costs, even if, as some of you uninformed folk seem to think, it will lead the country to ruin. I'd rather have the latter and control of my backyard than ever closer ties to essentially being a diluted state. What's the point! It's not about wanting to be better than anyone or delusion of grandeur of days of empire etc (stroll on... whatever, most Brits couldn't give a monkeys about any of that past). Anyway, bash away haters, I'm done with this predictable thread.

I see you got difficulties to accept that all what comes from Brussel is the result of consense. Brussel's administration rules out what even you Brits agreed. So don't complain. Once you have signed a contract you have to fulfill and follow the rules. To make it easy for you to understand: If you are going to get a loan from a bank you are happy if you get it, but you have also to accept their rules in repayment and interest.

So if you leave EU you have to accept higher import taxes and also that your products are not competitive with EU products because of taxes/customs. Subsidies will be gone as well. So for me it's hard to see some blindfolded people on this small island. Open your eyes!

I just can't wait to see the look on the little englanders faces when they find out, no longer part of the EU, find the French gendarmes at Calais shrugging their shoulders and pointing out to the refugees that 'angleterre is over there'.

Cooperation gone: It will be one way to lessen the EU's migrant load, that is for sure.

Do you know nothing . Are you completely ignorant of uk . I am welsh and not a little englander which makes you obnoxiuous and racist . The only reason they are there is because of eec rules . The reason why we want to leave the eec is we can tell the illegal imingrants to stay in france or go home . They will never get to uk if we have our own control

Well be happy with your own control and see how that will work out.

Don't forget, when the UK leaves the EU than they don't have the right anymore to put UK immigration officers on the mainland to stop the flow of illigal immigrants.

As somebody metions this before. The French will put them in the trucks accross the chanel!

[angiolo]

These 'little Englanders' - how I hate them! Neo-fascist supporters of UKIP, doubtless! That should get me some unwarranted responses, I sincerely hope!

The EU - one of the greatest political and economic unions of all time and the dear 'little Englanders' think that the UK is still the centre of the universe and can 'go it alone' in the fight against terrorism and economic survival.

Bird brains - all of them!

WELL I am a little Englander and you are a big buls-tter. Where did you dream up all this crap?

[MaeJoMTB]

I just can't wait to see the look on the little englanders faces when they find out, no longer part of the EU, find the French gendarmes at Calais shrugging their shoulders and pointing out to the refugees that 'angleterre is over there'.

Cooperation gone: It will be one way to lessen the EU's migrant load, that is for sure.

Dear Samran,

Just to point out that freedom of movement, right to work and border controls are not part of the EU agreement.

Britain leaving the EU would make no changes to the existing problems.

Nobody in Britain is currently suggesting leaving the EEA.

[MrTee]

When this Brexit thing started I was firmly in the Stay in Europe club.
Not so sure now.

The biggest problem I see, as far as referendum goes, is all the negative campaigning.

Not much how much better it be outside of the EU, and very little about how it improves our lives by staying in.

As for Hameron's ineffectual 'Negotiations' where he goes and makes weak demands and gets told to do one from the rest of the EU has left him on the back-foot and looking weak. He'll come back and tell everyone that he's got a good deal for Britain, but sadly by now we all know he is no more than a PR man and only lies and more lies come out of his piggy mouth. He's only doing this to appease his backbenchers, but it looks increasingly likely that it'll come back and bite his overinflated butt.

I'm sure in the 70s it made sense to join forces with other European nations and the EU has grown to become the biggest economy in the world..
And as for migration, pretty much as many British have moved to EU nations to live as have moved to the UK.



Rather then hearing the same old worn out clichés from both sides it would be good to hear some original thinking and ideas on how we can improve our future.

[samran]

These types of threads always bring out the worst in people, especially when it's a British topic. The yanks think they have it bad but EVERYONE loves to bash the Brits, or the English to be more precise. There is no discussion, just pure unbridled bitching.

Bottom line, people are sick and tired of being dictated to by a foreign entity; a club which has burgeoned from what was signed up to as the common market that now controls most facets of life. We didn't sign up to that, and I most certainly didn't. The UK is a small island running out of space fast, services are struggling to cope and the EU cats just want to keep on shovelling the people in. Enough is enough, whatever is costs, even if, as some of you uninformed folk seem to think, it will lead the country to ruin. I'd rather have the latter and control of my backyard than ever closer ties to essentially being a diluted state. What's the point! It's not about wanting to be better than anyone or delusion of grandeur of days of empire etc (stroll on... whatever, most Brits couldn't give a monkeys about any of that past). Anyway, bash away haters, I'm done with this predictable thread.

I see you got difficulties to accept that all what comes from Brussel is the result of consense. Brussel's administration rules out what even you Brits agreed. So don't complain. Once you have signed a contract you have to fulfill and follow the rules. To make it easy for you to understand: If you are going to get a loan from a bank you are happy if you get it, but you have also to accept their rules in repayment and interest.

So if you leave EU you have to accept higher import taxes and also that your products are not competitive with EU products because of taxes/customs. Subsidies will be gone as well. So for me it's hard to see some blindfolded people on this small island. Open your eyes!

I just can't wait to see the look on the little englanders faces when they find out, no longer part of the EU, find the French gendarmes at Calais shrugging their shoulders and pointing out to the refugees that 'angleterre is over there'.

Cooperation gone: It will be one way to lessen the EU's migrant load, that is for sure.

Do you know nothing . Are you completely ignorant of uk . I am welsh and not a little englander which makes you obnoxiuous and racist . The only reason they are there is because of eec rules . The reason why we want to leave the eec is we can tell the illegal imingrants to stay in france or go home . They will never get to uk if we have our own control

The ikky thump grandmaster speaks...

[samran]

I just can't wait to see the look on the little englanders faces when they find out, no longer part of the EU, find the French gendarmes at Calais shrugging their shoulders and pointing out to the refugees that 'angleterre is over there'.

Cooperation gone: It will be one way to lessen the EU's migrant load, that is for sure.

Dear Samran,

Just to point out that freedom of movement, right to work and border controls are not part of the EU agreement.

Britain leaving the EU would make no changes to the existing problems.

Nobody in Britain is currently suggesting leaving the EEA.

In which case the little englanders are in for a big surprise when they discover the continentals can still come and go as they please. Why bother with a referendum?

Being a member of the EEA means you get all the rules that come with being in the common market without any ability to have a seat at the table to contribute to them. An even worse straight jacket than you think you are in now.

[Richard W]

Don't forget, when the UK leaves the EU than they don't have the right anymore to put UK immigration officers on the mainland to stop the flow of illigal immigrants.

What is the connection between the UK being part of the EU and the mutual 'border exporting' between the UK and the Schengen countries?

As somebody metions this before. The French will put them in the trucks accross the chanel!

Wasn't that their old policy?

[teatree]

I just can't wait to see the look on the little englanders faces when they find out, no longer part of the EU, find the French gendarmes at Calais shrugging their shoulders and pointing out to the refugees that 'angleterre is over there'.

Cooperation gone: It will be one way to lessen the EU's migrant load, that is for sure.

Dear Samran,

Just to point out that freedom of movement, right to work and border controls are not part of the EU agreement.

Britain leaving the EU would make no changes to the existing problems.

Nobody in Britain is currently suggesting leaving the EEA.

In which case the little englanders are in for a big surprise when they discover the continentals can still come and go as they please. Why bother with a referendum?

Being a member of the EEA means you get all the rules that come with being in the common market without any ability to have a seat at the table to contribute to them. An even worse straight jacket than you think you are in now.

Immigration is not the only issue, there are also the concerns about democracy, or rather the lack ot it, that comes with being a member of the EU.

The executive arm of the EU (The Commission) is not voted in by the people, it is not accountable to the people, and it cannot be voted out by the people. The UK spends a lot of time going around the world bombing countries to 'bring them democracy'. It would be nice if it could bring democracy to itself.

In any case, It is unlikely that the UK would leave the EU and remain in the EEA.

As a side note, is it really necessary to continue with the puerile name calling? Why not just call people who you disagree with smelly poo heads?

[RuamRudy]

With England's GNP as it is they need to stay in the EU.Don't forget that Scotland could one day still leave your kingdom.Of course you might want to petition The USA to be the 51st state..You would have to pay a sum to be negotiated later.Oh yes we don;t want any part of Ireland period.

FYI ENGLAND'S GDP is one of the largest in the EU (it is huge and will be bigger out) and it is hoped by the majority of the U.K. that the jocks leave as they take out way more than they put in. As far as the UK and GDP is concerned, England generates the lions share and then some. The 'Scottish' oil, of which part is in English waters, accounts for something like 1% of GDP. Squat! And then you have the jocks with their hand out. The oil is not worth it and neither is Scotland. 55% of jocks who voted to stay in UK know this, but you don't right. For the cheap seats, the EU needs the UK more than the other way around which is why the leaders of other nations jump whenever exit is mentioned. It's got eff all to do with empire days ad nauseum. And as I say, yanks don't have a say. As to joining your <deleted> up nation I'd rather be with the Chinese; at least they have some brains and self respect.

Sorry to bring some reality to your myopic rant, but you are simply wrong in your assertion about Scottish contribution to the UK. This is from that wonderful arbiter of truth and objectivism, the BBC:

Similarly, that oil you claim to be in English waters - the result of Blair gerrymandering in the fag end of his tenure, but we will resolve that iniquity when the time comes.

But, hey, don't let the truth get in the way of your Little Engerlund rant. It is actually amusing.

[lostboy]

I just can't wait to see the look on the little englanders faces when they find out, no longer part of the EU, find the French gendarmes at Calais shrugging their shoulders and pointing out to the refugees that 'angleterre is over there'.

Cooperation gone: It will be one way to lessen the EU's migrant load, that is for sure.

Dear Samran,

Just to point out that freedom of movement, right to work and border controls are not part of the EU agreement.

Britain leaving the EU would make no changes to the existing problems.

Nobody in Britain is currently suggesting leaving the EEA.

In which case the little englanders are in for a big surprise when they discover the continentals can still come and go as they please. Why bother with a referendum?

Being a member of the EEA means you get all the rules that come with being in the common market without any ability to have a seat at the table to contribute to them. An even worse straight jacket than you think you are in now.

Immigration is not the only issue, there are also the concerns about democracy, or rather the lack ot it, that comes with being a member of the EU.

The executive arm of the EU (The Commission) is not voted in by the people, it is not accountable to the people, and it cannot be voted out by the people. The UK spends a lot of time going around the world bombing countries to 'bring them democracy'. It would be nice if it could bring democracy to itself.

In any case, It is unlikely that the UK would leave the EU and remain in the EEA.

As a side note, is it really necessary to continue with the puerile name calling? Why not just call people who you disagree with smelly poo heads?

UK voters have no say in executive appointments in the British civil service. Why do you then complain about being excluded from executive appointments in the EU equivalent?

[englishoak]

Interesting the language and fear it seems to bring out at the prospect of self determination, my my what a fearful and pathetic attitude some have here.

And do try to find a better insult than little englanders, sometimes going against the flow is the right thing to do, even be it losing much, its not like we've not done what others would not/ could not before, despite the risks and cost .... right europe ?

Dont worry about Britain, it'll do just fine in or out but absolutely no problem being out we can deal with that without any dramas.

The Globalist/socialist/fascist vision is sooo last century, its ok to alter course or even change theres no need to be afraid of nothing.

Edited December 17, 2015 by englishoak

[kingalfred]

The eu is a failed experiment. It has morphed into a huge federal bureaucratic centralized costly self serving inefficient monster. Voting Yes would not be voting for status quo . There will be more integration politically and economically and the UK needs to remove itself from this sooner rather than later,when it would be too late. The UK is the 4th biggest economy in the world and countries want to trade with without being tied to the EU disaster.

[MAJIC]

These types of threads always bring out the worst in people, especially when it's a British topic. The yanks think they have it bad but EVERYONE loves to bash the Brits, or the English to be more precise. There is no discussion, just pure unbridled bitching.

Bottom line, people are sick and tired of being dictated to by a foreign entity; a club which has burgeoned from what was signed up to as the common market that now controls most facets of life. We didn't sign up to that, and I most certainly didn't. The UK is a small island running out of space fast, services are struggling to cope and the EU cats just want to keep on shovelling the people in. Enough is enough, whatever is costs, even if, as some of you uninformed folk seem to think, it will lead the country to ruin. I'd rather have the latter and control of my backyard than ever closer ties to essentially being a diluted state. What's the point! It's not about wanting to be better than anyone or delusion of grandeur of days of empire etc (stroll on... whatever, most Brits couldn't give a monkeys about any of that past). Anyway, bash away haters, I'm done with this predictable thread.

I see you got difficulties to accept that all what comes from Brussel is the result of consense. Brussel's administration rules out what even you Brits agreed. So don't complain. Once you have signed a contract you have to fulfill and follow the rules. To make it easy for you to understand: If you are going to get a loan from a bank you are happy if you get it, but you have also to accept their rules in repayment and interest.

So if you leave EU you have to accept higher import taxes and also that your products are not competitive with EU products because of taxes/customs. Subsidies will be gone as well. So for me it's hard to see some blindfolded people on this small island. Open your eyes!

I just can't wait to see the look on the little englanders faces when they find out, no longer part of the EU, find the French gendarmes at Calais shrugging their shoulders and pointing out to the refugees that 'angleterre is over there'.

Cooperation gone: It will be one way to lessen the EU's migrant load, that is for sure.

Control of our Borders is one of the main reasons we are voting on pulling out of the EU. Should that happen it is highly unlikely the borders will be open to all !

Wishful thinking on your part I fear!

Edited December 17, 2015 by MAJIC

[MAJIC]

These 'little Englanders' - how I hate them! Neo-fascist supporters of UKIP, doubtless! That should get me some unwarranted responses, I sincerely hope!

The EU - one of the greatest political and economic unions of all time and the dear 'little Englanders' think that the UK is still the centre of the universe and can 'go it alone' in the fight against terrorism and economic survival.

Bird brains - all of them!

And you are from.........?

He's been asked that question several times, obviously some tin pot country not even worth a mention!

[englishoak]

These types of threads always bring out the worst in people, especially when it's a British topic. The yanks think they have it bad but EVERYONE loves to bash the Brits, or the English to be more precise. There is no discussion, just pure unbridled bitching.

Bottom line, people are sick and tired of being dictated to by a foreign entity; a club which has burgeoned from what was signed up to as the common market that now controls most facets of life. We didn't sign up to that, and I most certainly didn't. The UK is a small island running out of space fast, services are struggling to cope and the EU cats just want to keep on shovelling the people in. Enough is enough, whatever is costs, even if, as some of you uninformed folk seem to think, it will lead the country to ruin. I'd rather have the latter and control of my backyard than ever closer ties to essentially being a diluted state. What's the point! It's not about wanting to be better than anyone or delusion of grandeur of days of empire etc (stroll on... whatever, most Brits couldn't give a monkeys about any of that past). Anyway, bash away haters, I'm done with this predictable thread.

I see you got difficulties to accept that all what comes from Brussel is the result of consense. Brussel's administration rules out what even you Brits agreed. So don't complain. Once you have signed a contract you have to fulfill and follow the rules. To make it easy for you to understand: If you are going to get a loan from a bank you are happy if you get it, but you have also to accept their rules in repayment and interest.

So if you leave EU you have to accept higher import taxes and also that your products are not competitive with EU products because of taxes/customs. Subsidies will be gone as well. So for me it's hard to see some blindfolded people on this small island. Open your eyes!

I just can't wait to see the look on the little englanders faces when they find out, no longer part of the EU, find the French gendarmes at Calais shrugging their shoulders and pointing out to the refugees that 'angleterre is over there'.

Cooperation gone: It will be one way to lessen the EU's migrant load, that is for sure.

Control of our Borders is one of the main reasons we are voting on pulling out of the EU. Should that happen it is highly unlikely the borders will be open to all !

Wishful thinking on your part I fear!

I think control borders might have always been important for rather obvious reasons somehow, seems some dont really understand much about history.

Borders are about as important as it gets for any country, I believe even walls have been built on occasion and a perfect example of a right wing moronic answer, the lefts imbecilic answer is to have none..... Personally I like border control somewhere in the middle where normal people and sanity resides.

Would you like to tell them border controls and cooperation existed before the EU and will after it ? ..... most ive found screeching like a banshee are those who stand to be inconvenienced or havnt bothered to take a proper look at Europe lately.

The Right is now firmly on the rise in Europe as a direct and growing response to totally imbecilic left wing politics, free money and ponzi scheme parasitic state handout policies and rules that have almost guaranteed future civil unrest and violence by promoting and encouraging incompatible religious migration and the most moronic group think one of the lot..... and this is enlightened ? I think not and the center voice of reason has been trying to stop this rot for a long time without success, the far left will only stop trashing humanity when the people have had enough they will swing to the opposite extreme, it will and is already happening.

Things have been attempting to rebalance themselves to the center where sense lays and resides for decades now, the left however wont leave things alone for free markets to do so will further shower everyone with more cash and false promises, eventually when enough have had enough the right will become ascendant,then the problems will go into overdrive.

People eventually will defend themselves from attacks from within, politically as always at first but later itll get physical like it always does, the EU will force things to breaking point by continuing its moranic left policy insanity and created monopoly money until something snaps. The results wont be pretty and certainly very violent but thats what a blow off is like in Europe and its building up to it.

Its happening right in front of everyones eyes right now and would be prudent if people realised that and seriously asked why rather than just repeating headlines by totally biased main press and looking as dumb as a xmas Turkey.

Edited December 17, 2015 by englishoak

[prestburypark]

What a pity this thread became so polluted with vitriol. A sensible debate on the matter would be really interesting. A good read on EU founding history and objectives is:

The Great Deception by Christopher Booker and Richard North, by Continuum Books.

The EU founders , Jean Monnet et al. knew that nationalism would preclude a United states of Europe , which is the ultimate goal, so sold the european idea of free trade and movement of labour to morph eventually into what is nearly the end game now, a super state run by technocrats...Italy and Greece are now run by such types.

Jean Monnet, in his memoirs:

"The sovereign nations of the past can no longer solve the problems of the present: they cannot ensure their own progress or control their own future.

And the Community itself is only a stage on the way to the organised world of tomorrow"

Chilling stuff, whats the really big plan for the world then?

In 2004 Guy Verhofstadt, the then Belgian Prime minister, on European power :

"The Constitution is the capstone of a European Federal State."

Mark Leonard, Centre for European reform, 2005:

"Europe's power is easy to miss. Like an invisible hand it operates through the shell of traditional political structures.

The British House of Commons, British law courts and British civil servants are still here, but they have become agents of the European Union, implementing European law.

This is no accident. By creating common standards that are implemented through national institutions, Europe can take over countries without necessarily becoming a target for hostility."

The European project has been decades long in the making and has been disguised by a pretence that it was solely about economic co-operation. This is because citizens of each country are loyal to their country and do not wish to cede sovereignty to faceless bureaucrats with a master plan to control them. Eventually this intention had to be revealed , hence in 2002 the constitution. Recall those countries who voted "wrong" were blackmailed into re-voting till they got the "correct" mandate?

In my humble opinion, the project is a dream , undemocratic and totalitarian in its vision. Unfortunately it is also near its end game. The Brexit is certainly not what the present UK government wants and Cameron is play-acting, he is part of the grand plan and would never seriously advocate an exit, although he will lie through his teeth about backing an exit if he does not get his (feeble and irrelevant) concessions from Brussels.

But what about the big picture and the big players? The US , well we are still seeing the American Plan for the 21st Century, so ably implemented by Bush and Cheney playing out its end game of regime change across the middle east, and do you seriously think that there is no coordination between the big players, hey the whole word is bombing and anyone with a plane is welcome to flatten Syria and Iraq . They, the US want the same as Europe, one Government to deal with , without the democracy that gets in the way of real Power.

Just some thoughts.

[Richard W]

Immigration is not the only issue, there are also the concerns about democracy, or rather the lack ot it, that comes with being a member of the EU.

The executive arm of the EU (The Commission) is not voted in by the people, it is not accountable to the people, and it cannot be voted out by the people. The UK spends a lot of time going around the world bombing countries to 'bring them democracy'. It would be nice if it could bring democracy to itself.

In any case, It is unlikely that the UK would leave the EU and remain in the EEA.

There are some curious things going on in the EEA with regard to the free movement of labour. There are emergency provisions allowing it to be suspended, which appear to have been permanently invoked by Liechtenstein. EEA nationals have the right to work in Liechtenstein, but not the right to reside in it. (Reminds me of Johannesburg under apartheid.) It seems that UKIP is, or has been, advocating that approach as a half-way step. I only learnt about these possibilities yesterday. Such an approach would go a long way to meeting the acceptable demands of business for continued EU membership.

I don't think the emergency opt-out clauses for the EU allow for indefinite application.

The downside of retaining EEA membership but renouncing EU membership is the complete loss of democratic control. The European Parliament has the rarely used power of dismissing the European commission.

[bob009]

These 'little Englanders' - how I hate them! Neo-fascist supporters of UKIP, doubtless! That should get me some unwarranted responses, I sincerely hope!

The EU - one of the greatest political and economic unions of all time and the dear 'little Englanders' think that the UK is still the centre of the universe and can 'go it alone' in the fight against terrorism and economic survival.

Bird brains - all of them!

“Written by a German no doubt”. The UK can go it alone. We managed for hundreds of years. One thing is for sure we don’t Need The Club Mafia (E.U.) to keep putting their hand in our pockets every time the get themselves in the shit.. .

The UK economy is healthy that’s why everybody want to come and look for work there. And if you look at the good old British Pound it’s been very strong against the floundering Euro. So yes out of the Club Mafia will be my vote. We don’t need Europe and their crooked EU structure.

And as for the Hate us, and little Englanders, Just remember we whipped your arse’s twice.

As we say in the UK F.U. E.U.

[brewsterbudgen]

Looks like a "snap" referendum will be called by Cameron in the first 6 months of next year. I predict 55% for staying in. Fingers crossed!

[ableguy]

These 'little Englanders' - how I hate them! Neo-fascist supporters of UKIP, doubtless! That should get me some unwarranted responses, I sincerely hope!

The EU - one of the greatest political and economic unions of all time and the dear 'little Englanders' think that the UK is still the centre of the universe and can 'go it alone' in the fight against terrorism and economic survival.

Bird brains - all of them!

And without Britain (note England is only one of four countries in the UK) you'd probably be speaking German and living under a repressive Nazi EU regime ......... here, old on a minute !

But, a Federal EU, under Mutti Merkel and her puppet Juncke, what could go wrong?

Im sure that I read somewhere that Britain had its arse kicked and then kicked out of euroupe in 1939 leaving the continent via french fishing boats and dingys from dunkirk, it then took them 5 years only after the USA agreed to invade Europe and fight the Nazis.

Typical British mentality to think they won the war single handedly and that all of the other countries that allied with them, were just a nusence getting in their way.

And we all would be speaking German if it werent for Britain..... Dream on......

American blood saved Europe and then the Marshal plan, any of you bozos know what that was ?

[mpa]

American blood saved Europe and then the Marshal plan, any of you bozos know what that was ?

[Ace of Pop]

I know the Yanks made England pay back war loans for stuff, but not Germany when they helped em re build. No im not Brit..

[Ace of Pop]

American blood saved Europe and then the Marshal plan, any of you bozos know what that was ?

Theres Cameron the ...........

[SheungWan]

If you really think the referendum is going to vote OUT then you can get odds of nearly 2-1, so safe to ignore both the poll and the exit blowhards on this forum. For those of us who live in the real world and not a UKIP (what I want, what I really, really want) one, the key for retirees in Thailand is Sterling. At any point the betting shifts towards the exit position, sterling is taking a big dump. Those who want to hedge now might be advised to at least take some baby steps.

[nontabury]

These 'little Englanders' - how I hate them! Neo-fascist supporters of UKIP, doubtless! That should get me some unwarranted responses, I sincerely hope!

The EU - one of the greatest political and economic unions of all time and the dear 'little Englanders' think that the UK is still the centre of the universe and can 'go it alone' in the fight against terrorism and economic survival.

Bird brains - all of them!

oh, how I like your quote and how right you are. These Brits are still dreaming of their Empire. They can't accept to be No 2 or 3 in Europe and this only because they are members of EU. If they leave EU they will shrink to real size, just a little lawn gnome.

Another Irish nationalist anti Brit remark from you.

[nontabury]

With England's GNP as it is they need to stay in the EU.Don't forget that Scotland could one day still leave your kingdom.Of course you might want to petition The USA to be the 51st state..You would have to pay a sum to be negotiated later.Oh yes we don;t want any part of Ireland period.

FYI ENGLAND'S GDP is one of the largest in the EU (it is huge and will be bigger out) and it is hoped by the majority of the U.K. that the jocks leave as they take out way more than they put in. As far as the UK and GDP is concerned, England generates the lions share and then some. The 'Scottish' oil, of which part is in English waters, accounts for something like 1% of GDP. Squat! And then you have the jocks with their hand out. The oil is not worth it and neither is Scotland. 55% of jocks who voted to stay in UK know this, but you don't right. For the cheap seats, the EU needs the UK more than the other way around which is why the leaders of other nations jump whenever exit is mentioned. It's got eff all to do with empire days ad nauseum. And as I say, yanks don't have a say. As to joining your <deleted> up nation I'd rather be with the Chinese; at least they have some brains and self respect.

Sorry to bring some reality to your myopic rant, but you are simply wrong in your assertion about Scottish contribution to the UK. This is from that wonderful arbiter of truth and objectivism, the BBC:

Similarly, that oil you claim to be in English waters - the result of Blair gerrymandering in the fag end of his tenure, but we will resolve that iniquity when the time comes.

But, hey, don't let the truth get in the way of your Little Engerlund rant. It is actually amusing.

Are these figures worked out from the SNP's estimate of 100$ a barrel of oil or today's figure of 35$

As for Tony WMD Blair you forgot to mention he is Scottish the same as Gordon Bigot Brown.

Edited December 22, 2015 by nontabury

[nontabury]

I just can't wait to see the look on the little englanders faces when they find out, no longer part of the EU, find the French gendarmes at Calais shrugging their shoulders and pointing out to the refugees that 'angleterre is over there'.
Cooperation gone: It will be one way to lessen the EU's migrant load, that is for sure.

Dear Samran,
Just to point out that freedom of movement, right to work and border controls are not part of the EU agreement.
Britain leaving the EU would make no changes to the existing problems.

Nobody in Britain is currently suggesting leaving the EEA.

In which case the little englanders are in for a big surprise when they discover the continentals can still come and go as they please. Why bother with a referendum?

Being a member of the EEA means you get all the rules that come with being in the common market without any ability to have a seat at the table to contribute to them. An even worse straight jacket than you think you are in now.

Immigration is not the only issue, there are also the concerns about democracy, or rather the lack ot it, that comes with being a member of the EU.

The executive arm of the EU (The Commission) is not voted in by the people, it is not accountable to the people, and it cannot be voted out by the people. The UK spends a lot of time going around the world bombing countries to 'bring them democracy'. It would be nice if it could bring democracy to itself.

In any case, It is unlikely that the UK would leave the EU and remain in the EEA.

As a side note, is it really necessary to continue with the puerile name calling? Why not just call people who you disagree with smelly poo heads?

UK voters have no say in executive appointments in the British civil service. Why do you then complain about being excluded from executive appointments in the EU equivalent?

The British civil servants are answerable to their elected political masters, whereas the EU Bureaucrats are non elected and are answerable to whom?