Condo management refusing to pay back the renovation deposit

[kaneko86]

Hello TV members,

last month I renovated my condo and had to pay 20.000 baht deposit to the condo management for being allowed to start the works.

I decided also to change the position of my aircon outside on the balcony which was situated on the floor I put it up on the top to make more space on the balcony. As soon I installed it there the condo manager told me to install it again where it was before otherwise they will not give me the deposit back. Now I must to say that about 40% of the other units has it on the top like I have it now too and so this is just an excuse from the manager to keep that 20.000 baht. Its nowhere written that I can not install it where I have it now.

My plan now is not to pay the maintenance fees (about 12.000 baht) for the first year as the management already stole 20.000 bahts from me. I find it fair, but what would you advice me. Would you do the same in my case and what problems could I face? Thank you for help!

Ah, when I went to ask the deposit back when the renovation works were finished and the manager refused to give it back to me and I said she steals it her answer was:"Welcome to Thailand"

Edited December 16, 2015 by kaneko86

[onetime]

Take it to the consumer complaint department. I think they'll take your side, but I don't have first hand knowledge.

If you don't pay the maintenance, you break a contractual obligation. Then they have you by the shorties.

[donsonny]

Yes, try to take it to the consumer complaint department. I doubt it will do any good. Something like this happen to me as well. I paid 1 month rent and 1 month deposit and I told them that it would be for 3 month only until my house would be finished and container would arrive. After the 3 month I ask for my deposit. The woman told me that I had to stay for minimum 6 month to get back my deposit. So yes welcome to LOS.

[kaneko86]

Where can I find the consumer complaint center in Pattaya?

On the other hand if they don t give me that deposit back it means I can do future renovations whenever I like without informing the office as it is still not clear so I see my room under renovation until they give me back that deposit.

[onetime]

LOS really means; you'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll kiss your money goodbye.

[Jingthing]

I think you would need to pay a lawyer to actually fight that. Doesn't seem worth it. Withholding your fees may end with your water being shut. Enjoy condo living!

[KittenKong]

Start by contacting your building's committee. It must have one. Complain about the treatment you have received. Check your building's rules regarding the position of aircon units and renovation deposits.

Point out to the manager that you will be standing up and telling all co-owners how she treated you at your next AGM. And DO IT.

As mentioned, contact the consumer protection department (Pattaya City Hall) with full details, and also contact the tourist court (Pattaya court near Grande Caribbean) which offers fast track resolution to minor civil problems farangs might have. I think a short consultation with a lawyer is free there and there is a set charge for the procedure if you do it.

As mentioned, do not withhold payment of the common fee.

Be aware that these people have no backbone at all and count on you giving in to them. Present them with the slightest opposition and they will collapse like the miserable thieving t*rds they are.

[Jingthing]

I totally agree. First go the board and make your case. They may well not agree with you and you may well have a crappy case. I'm not sold on your case.

[Delight]

Are you sure that in the Rules and Regs have no say as to the siting an air condition heat exchanger.

If you are outside the rules then the condo management have no choice but to take the action that they have taken.

The action of the other 40% is irrelevant.

Suggest that you fine comb read the Rules and Regs

That which you find or don;t find there will guide you to your next stage

[JMWPACIFIC]

Proceed with caution---sounds like you have broken into the common area wall on the balcony which is not your property. Were the other 40% moved by renovation or were they originally installed that way? Your manager might have a good case but i would take it to the authorities nevertheless. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[trogers]

First, any money given to the juristic, whether payments or deposits, should have an official receipt issued. Should there be theft, it is the matter of the juristic office.

Placement of air-con compressors would affect the external facade of the building. The original design intent was to place it on the floor of the balcony. Hanging it without concealing grilles would degrade the facade.

Even if 40% of the owners had done it, the juristic can still work to reverse the trend. To that end, they have to first stop further degradation...

[Gsxrnz]

Apologise profusely to the manager for breaking the rules.

Refit the a/c back on the ground.

Show the manager the nicely relocated unit and get your deposit back.

Refit the unit back on the wall.

When the manager approaches you about the matter, tell her "welcome to my world".

[technologybytes]

Apologise profusely to the manager for breaking the rules.

Refit the a/c back on the ground.

Show the manager the nicely relocated unit and get your deposit back.

Refit the unit back on the wall.

When the manager approaches you about the matter, tell her "welcome to my world".

This is the most sensible answer so far, that's not to say that some of the other answers were not good, but this is the best answer.

[mogo51]

Start by contacting your building's committee. It must have one. Complain about the treatment you have received. Check your building's rules regarding the position of aircon units and renovation deposits.

Point out to the manager that you will be standing up and telling all co-owners how she treated you at your next AGM. And DO IT.

As mentioned, contact the consumer protection department (Pattaya City Hall) with full details, and also contact the tourist court (Pattaya court near Grande Caribbean) which offers fast track resolution to minor civil problems farangs might have. I think a short consultation with a lawyer is free there and there is a set charge for the procedure if you do it.

As mentioned, do not withhold payment of the common fee.

Be aware that these people have no backbone at all and count on you giving in to them. Present them with the slightest opposition and they will collapse like the miserable thieving t*rds they are.

This is sound advice, I would go further and lodge a complaint with the juristic committee in writing, they should have control over the 'manager'. The condo act is quite strong and there is a number to call on posters on Sukhamvit Rd., Pattaya (if that is where you are), for you to call.

[Gsxrnz]

Apologise profusely to the manager for breaking the rules.

Refit the a/c back on the ground.

Show the manager the nicely relocated unit and get your deposit back.

Refit the unit back on the wall.

When the manager approaches you about the matter, tell her "welcome to my world".

This is the most sensible answer so far, that's not to say that some of the other answers were not good, but this is the best answer.

Thanks for that.

Yeah I find that western rules don't work in Thailand, so going all legal on them gets you nowhere.

Always better to play by their rules. The minute the OP opened his mouth about the other 40% of the units being mounted on the wall, it became a "face" issue for the manager.

If he goes to the committee or complains to city hall, his life in the condo will be miserable - the manager will make it her personal mission in life to make it that way.

Always agree to comply (no matter how ridiculous the matter may be), and then just do what you want. Agreeing and complying are two different things.

[Familyaffairs]

What were the terms of you paying the deposit. Was it solicited by letter? Did you transfer it by bsnk, or at least got a written and signed receipt? You should write to them and send via EMS so you will get a received yellow notice. If they reply snd insist you reinstall your compressor in the same plsce, reply, via EMS, that 40% of the other uits have done the same thing. Try and talk to some of the owners of the other units to see if they got away with it without paying, and then go and see the Damrongthum. Do they have a committee in your condo?

Tachnically you can't do anything that alters the aestethics or ambience of a condominium building, and the roof and outside of the walls are common area..

You can choose not to pay yr CAM fees, but then they can charge you a 1% non compound interest fee p.m. And after 6 months, a nin compound fee of 1.66% p.m. They can then also disconnect yr electricity. (If it comes in on a single meter for the whooe building) and water.

Hope you can solve yr problem with this uncaring, impolite b#%>¥

[william-pad]

What is the name of the condo Yensabai ? The acting Management there have a history of doing this.

[KittenKong]

I totally agree. First go the board and make your case. They may well not agree with you and you may well have a crappy case. I'm not sold on your case.

As you say, the case is not clear-cut. The wall between two units is normally common property and so normally co-owners cannot alter it in any way. This is probably the reasoning behind what the manager is trying to do. But in my building it's very common to hang aircon units on that wall, for precisely the same reason as the OP had. And no one has ever been prevented from doing it in my building as far as I know.

I can understand why a building would want to enforce the rules but fairness would require a retroactive application of the rule and few committees have an appetite for that.

In our building the written rule is that all modifications (visible or invisible) must be presented to the full assembly of co-owners for a vote. Of course that could mean a delay of up to 12 months before starting work. Needless to say the written rule is never applied.

But there is also the issue of this manager's attitude, which is not acceptable as far as I'm concerned.

[Tanlic]

Apologise profusely to the manager for breaking the rules.

Refit the a/c back on the ground.

Show the manager the nicely relocated unit and get your deposit back.

Refit the unit back on the wall.

When the manager approaches you about the matter, tell her "welcome to my world".

This is the most sensible answer so far, that's not to say that some of the other answers were not good, but this is the best answer.

Agreed...take the advice because basically you are breaking the law. A few year back they were photographing buildings/condos in Thailand then checking back to see if anyone had changed anything on the outside of the building.

The fine for doing so I believe is 100,000 baht and you also have to pay to change it back. If someone reports you or they come round rechecking from previously taken photos

The air cons eg that were moved before the law came in basically don't count so you have no argument there

The management office are employed by the committee. and acting on their behalf so not paying your common fees is simply stupid. All you will do achieve is to get hit with interest charges as the committee will not support you as you are in the wrong.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Tanlic

[AlQaholic]

The condominium act of Thailand, which is the law, states very clearly "no installations above the level of the balcony railing". This regulation relates to another regulation that protects the exterior design and look of the building from being altered, so as to lower the overall value (sale price) of each condo unit.

The manager has no choice but to follow the law. The other units that has installed the air-con above are also illegal and poses a serious dilemma for the manager, who can be arrested as the manager is responsible along with the juristic committee chairperson.

As this problem particularly with the aircon unit is quiet common the law is usually loosely interpreted or ignored. But at a A.G.M. the situation should be addressed in the agenda and a resolution be found.

By the way the management has, also according the law, the right to fine you up to 100,000 baht as well requiring yo to pay for the relocation of the unit back to original place.

And on a more technical note, the compressor unit makes much more noise on the wall (vibrations transferred into the wall structure) compared to it resting independently on the floor, for which it is designed.

Edited December 17, 2015 by AlQaholic

[2fishin2]

Apologise profusely to the manager for breaking the rules.

Refit the a/c back on the ground.

Show the manager the nicely relocated unit and get your deposit back.

Refit the unit back on the wall.

When the manager approaches you about the matter, tell her "welcome to my world".

POST of the YEAR!

[2fishin2]

The condominium act of Thailand, which is the law, states very clearly "no installations above the level of the balcony railing". This regulation relates to another regulation that protects the exterior design and look of the building from being altered, so as to lower the overall value (sale price) of each condo unit.

The manager has no choice but to follow the law. The other units that has installed the air-con above are also illegal and poses a serious dilemma for the manager, who can be arrested as the manager is responsible along with the juristic committee chairperson.

As this problem particularly with the aircon unit is quiet common the law is usually loosely interpreted or ignored. But at a A.G.M. the situation should be addressed in the agenda and a resolution be found.

By the way the management has, also according the law, the right to fine you up to 100,000 baht as well requiring yo to pay for the relocation of the unit back to original place.

And on a more technical note, the compressor unit makes much more noise on the wall (vibrations transferred into the wall structure) compared to it resting independently on the floor, for which it is designed.

Not to be argumentative but, MANY condo unit compressors are mounted high on the walls of balcony's all throughout Thailand. Houses, condos, buildings all have them mounted on walls.

Also on a technical note, compressors are designed to be mounted anywhere. And your vibration theory is your opinion. After all what is a wall but a sideways floor. 555

[AlQaholic]

The condominium act of Thailand, which is the law, states very clearly "no installations above the level of the balcony railing". This regulation relates to another regulation that protects the exterior design and look of the building from being altered, so as to lower the overall value (sale price) of each condo unit.

The manager has no choice but to follow the law. The other units that has installed the air-con above are also illegal and poses a serious dilemma for the manager, who can be arrested as the manager is responsible along with the juristic committee chairperson.

As this problem particularly with the aircon unit is quiet common the law is usually loosely interpreted or ignored. But at a A.G.M. the situation should be addressed in the agenda and a resolution be found.

By the way the management has, also according the law, the right to fine you up to 100,000 baht as well requiring yo to pay for the relocation of the unit back to original place.

And on a more technical note, the compressor unit makes much more noise on the wall (vibrations transferred into the wall structure) compared to it resting independently on the floor, for which it is designed.

Not to be argumentative but, MANY condo unit compressors are mounted high on the walls of balcony's all throughout Thailand. Houses, condos, buildings all have them mounted on walls.

Also on a technical note, compressors are designed to be mounted anywhere. And your vibration theory is your opinion. After all what is a wall but a sideways floor. 555

You know just as well as I how laws are enforced in Thailand. Now I was just stating the facts about the laws in Thailand pertaining to Condos specifically, not how they are enforced. Different condos have their own ways of solving, or ignoring this issue, but the law is still there and has been there for a long time. In this particular case the management has decided to try to enforce the law, simple.

The problem with vibrations transferred to the wall compared to the floor is that the floor is usually comprised of 2 layers of 9 mm reinforcement steel meshes, which makes the floor much more resistant to vibrations compared to the wall which has no reinforcement but consists of simple bricks and mortar. Also the wall has much more air pockets in it compared to the floor (no air if done correctly) giving ample opportunity for resonance amplification of sounds. I m also talking from own experience having just relocated a unit from a wall to the floor and reduced the noise significantly.

Edited December 17, 2015 by AlQaholic

[KittenKong]

The condominium act of Thailand, which is the law, states very clearly "no installations above the level of the balcony railing". This regulation relates to another regulation that protects the exterior design and look of the building from being altered, so as to lower the overall value (sale price) of each condo unit.

I see no mention at all of any of that in the Condo Act. Please indicate which section it is in.

Are you sure that you are not confusing the act and your building regulations?

The manager has no choice but to follow the law. The other units that has installed the air-con above are also illegal and poses a serious dilemma for the manager, who can be arrested as the manager is responsible along with the juristic committee chairperson.

The building manager has no legal responsibility. The Juristic Person Manager has legal responsibility. The chairman and committee members have some civil responsibility but no legal responsibility that I am aware of.

As this problem particularly with the aircon unit is quiet common the law is usually loosely interpreted or ignored. But at a A.G.M. the situation should be addressed in the agenda and a resolution be found.

By the way the management has, also according the law, the right to fine you up to 100,000 baht as well requiring yo to pay for the relocation of the unit back to original place.

Easier said than done to deal with this at an AGM in most buildings. A large majority may be required to change the building regs in such a way.

I dont think that fine applies here. That provision relates to failure to comply with the act in relation to registration etc. And the fine is imposed by the Land Office on the JPM, not by the building manager on co-owner.

Again, I think you are confusing building regs and the condo act.

And on a more technical note, the compressor unit makes much more noise on the wall (vibrations transferred into the wall structure) compared to it resting independently on the floor, for which it is designed.

Cant argue with that.

[vukovar77]

I think you would need to pay a lawyer to actually fight that. Doesn't seem worth it. Withholding your fees may end with your water being shut. Enjoy condo living!

My advice is "do not fight with Thai people"!!!!

Just remove it back and took your money back!!!

Anything else will be bad for you if you intend to live there!!!

Do not make your life miserable!!!

[callaway]

Find a BIB and tell him to get it back and go 50-50 with him. He will be around there with a couple of mates in 30 seconds flat. You will do 10,000 but will be worth it to rub the dirty theiving moles face in it.

[hugh2121]

Where can I find the consumer complaint center in Pattaya?

On the other hand if they don t give me that deposit back it means I can do future renovations whenever I like without informing the office as it is still not clear so I see my room under renovation until they give me back that deposit.

It's in city hall on Pattaya Nua (north road) I think.

Google finds it.

[colinneil]

I thank the lord that i live in an Issan village.

Do not have these problems. Do not have problems with neighbours over cockerels in the morning, just a nice quiet life.

Why would any sane person want to live in a condo?

[Gracas]

Do you have a receipt for your deposit, is there some type of contract / rules on what you can and cannot do regarding renovations ?

I really think your money has been spent and chances of it being returned are slim.

[sead]

Guess you have all holes ready to put it down again. Then get money and aftrr that put it up again