Animosity from Thai Teachers

[ev1lchris]

I've noticed from my time teaching her to expect attitude from some Thai teachers. Some seem really bitter towards foreign teachers. I don't like it.

I did not create the Thai education system that pays me the higher salary.

Lately the roads were closed around school for the Supreme Monarch. The school expected everyone to be in before 6 am. My coworkers and I laughed it off. I didn't have a class in the morning because my own students told me they would not come to school. Instead I came in at 9:30 after the roads reopened. They have not said anything directly but I know the Thai teachers did not like it. I don't really care. I do feel bad for some of the Thai students that woke up at 3 am to be at school.

I'm considering teaching in Japan. I'm getting kind of tired of the Thai system.

[samsensam]

unfortunately many foreign teachers here get tarred with the same brush as the foreigners teaching englsh here with no qualifications, experience or ability in the classroom.

i know some friendly and hard working thai teachers who are a credit to their profession. one has to give up her free time when she doesnt have lessons to go into a class taught by a foreigner because the foreigner has zero classroom management skills and cant control the class. she does not get paid to do this.

i taught in Japan and earned considerably more money for less work than teachers here. go for it.

[colinneil]

You say you are tired of the Thai system.

Maybe the other teachers have a reason for not liking you.

From your attitude towards Thais they have good reason.

Go elsewhere you are only spoiling things for good teachers. Bye bye.

[BruceMangosteen]

Yes, all the foreigners are tarred the same when you have one or two who are constantly late, don't sign in as required, refuse gate duty and morning assembly, refuse to participate in special events, are in fact, just plain lazy and worthless, not part of the school or "student body" itself. It's not the salary being higher, it's the lack of strict discipline applied to the foreigners and no respect paid to Thai culture that appalls many Thai teachers. I don't blame them in some of the cases I've seen. I seem to have to repeat...If you/anyone are doing your best you will earn respect. If you are a lazy teacher who doesn't seem to give a damn, well you simply won't. That all said, the Thai's can and will turn on you in a matter of seconds, minutes at the most. A five year friendship and working relationship can be ruined by you simply standing up for what's right. Not coming in a 6AM would be an example of being "right" IMHO. At some point, you/the foreigner who is an "at will" worker with no rights or recourse(no severance contrary to what has been posted here in the past) must take a stand and say "no". When you do, everything you've built up over the year(s) is gone, null and void.

[technologybytes]

Simply, the work ethic amongst Thai and Foreign teachers is often a long way from compatible. It does not matter who is right and who is wrong, it will lead to bad feeling.

Accept it or move on.

[Lopchan]

"My coworkers and I laughed it off."

This shows your attitude towards Thailand in general. Anyone who has been here longer than a day knows that the Thai Royal family are highly revered and worthy of respect. For you and your colleagues to decide you are above dragging your sorry @rses out of bed like the other teachers simply proves you have no respect for the school's request, for Thai culture or for the monarchy. As such, I'd say any animosity, real or imagined, has nothing to do with you receiving a higher wage, but more to do with your attitude which is quite frankly, lacking.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Lopchan

[konying]

You say you are tired of the Thai system.

Maybe the other teachers have a reason for not liking you.

From your attitude towards Thais they have good reason.

Go elsewhere you are only spoiling things for good teachers. Bye bye.

I will put it as delicate as I can

Considering you have 0 experience working with Thai and hardly any contact with Thai outside your room, just your wife and your nurse, you are in no position not only to comment on how things are but to tell someone where to go.

Edited December 18, 2015 by konying

[angsta]

You say you are tired of the Thai system.

Maybe the other teachers have a reason for not liking you.

From your attitude towards Thais they have good reason.

Go elsewhere you are only spoiling things for good teachers. Bye bye.

Spoiling things? You've clearly NEVER set foot in a Thai school in a teaching capacity.

OP, you are learning the sad reality of teaching in Lieland Thailand. You can either suck it up and be a good whitey or leave, my advise is go earlier rather than later. Nothing worse than becoming a miserable old man like...I think you get the idea. South Korea is a good option as well and easier to find work than in Japan.

Nice place to visit but you probably wouldn't want to live here.

[ThaiWai]

OP just make sure you visit Japan before any commitments (presuming you have not). If you think Thais don't like you you might be surprised to see the attitudes towards foreigners in Japan. Not saying everyone who goes there has a bad experience. Life's to short to be unhappy, good luck.

[connda]

That's why I chose to stick with private schools where there were only foreign NES teaching. It's not for everybody. Some people enjoy working in the Thai public education system, but I'm not one of them. I can handle Thai teachers who are my students, but my experience with Thai teachers in there own setting was less than positive. Passively arrogant, self-centred, self-absorbed, short-sighted, and overly status conscious. My humble opinion, your mileage may vary. Of course, as an NES, Thai teachers and administrators perception of me might have been 'loud, brash, insensitive, and overly critical' Lol. Probably guilty as charged, but I have high standards for myself and others, and I expect my fellow native Thai teachers to toe-the-line. Hence, I stuck with private schools with 100% NES teaching staff.

[bazza40]

You say you are tired of the Thai system.

Maybe the other teachers have a reason for not liking you.

From your attitude towards Thais they have good reason.

Go elsewhere you are only spoiling things for good teachers. Bye bye.

As it is clear the OP ( who purports to be a teacher ) cannot be bothered with small things such as spelling, punctuation and grammar I'm inclined to agree with you.

If the OP does not show respect for Thai customs, why should the Thai teachers show respect for him?

[crickets]

They see lots of terrible teachers come and go each year. Mostly because they are inexperinced and complain too much. You have to earn your respect from them if you can be botheted with it. Although there are some that are really nice.

[connda]

"My coworkers and I laughed it off."

This shows your attitude towards Thailand in general. Anyone who has been here longer than a day knows that the Thai Royal family are highly revered and worthy of respect. For you and your colleagues to decide you are above dragging your sorry @rses out of bed like the other teachers simply proves you have no respect for the school's request, for Thai culture or for the monarchy. As such, I'd say any animosity, real or imagined, has nothing to do with you receiving a higher wage, but more to do with your attitude which is quite frankly, lacking.

I agree that the Thais have an incentive to be there at 6am, but an NES teacher does not. This is not our country, or our Royal family, or our society, and the Thais let us know that we are outsiders every minute of the day, every day of the week, plus I pretty well guarantee that the school is expecting conformance without offering recompense for the additional time spent at the school. So I have to agree with the OP. There is no reason to show up at 6am unless you see some sort of benefit. If I was working for an International School making 100K+ THB/ month, sure, I'd show up at 6am with a smile on my face. Making 25k THB/ month at a Thai public school, I'd probably sleep in and show up for my classes. Respect is a two way street, but in Thailand, they have one lane blocked in perpetuity for kruu farang. I get the OP's concerns. Gotta agree though. OP: look at Japan or Korea. You'll be happier. By the way, although they didn't say beans about you not showing up at 6am, don't expect to see your contract extended for another year at the school where you work. That's how they will get back at you. They can't confront you, well...unless they go for a group beat-down , but they are really good at not extended contracts if you're perceived to not be marching to their tune in lock-step. I'd be looking for a job prior to the end of your contract. Just saying bud...

Edited December 18, 2015 by connda

[1FinickyOne]

"They have not said anything directly but I know the Thai teachers did not like it. I don't really care."

Do you give them so little credit that you think they don't pick up on your attitude of 'I don't care'? The other teachers are probably not as stupid as you think.

sure, it's the system - but every system has its good and bad points. Some people live with it and try to make the best out of it and do the best they can - others give up and don't care… sure sounds best for all involved, including yourself, if you move on. Not trying to be mean, but it sounds like you will be happier somewhere else, doing something else…

[connda]

They see lots of terrible teachers come and go each year. Mostly because they are inexperinced and complain too much. You have to earn your respect from them if you can be botheted with it. Although there are some that are really nice.

Well, isn't it Thailand's MOE's problem for not vetting experienced teachers and then offering payment commensurate with their experience? The school's do have a choice to go cheap, or not. But if they choose to hire on the cheap, then neither they, nor you, should complain about what the market provides. Beggars can't be choosers.

Edited December 18, 2015 by connda

[Enoon]

"My coworkers and I laughed it off."

This shows your attitude towards Thailand in general. Anyone who has been here longer than a day knows that the Thai Royal family are highly revered and worthy of respect. For you and your colleagues to decide you are above dragging your sorry @rses out of bed like the other teachers simply proves you have no respect for the school's request, for Thai culture or for the monarchy. As such, I'd say any animosity, real or imagined, has nothing to do with you receiving a higher wage, but more to do with your attitude which is quite frankly, lacking.

It was the supreme Patriarch (not an aristocrat or member of the monarchy): Funeral procession of Supreme Patriarch begins

There was no question of disrespect, the school wanted him there early as part of their procedural requirements which, as he points out, were irrelevant to his timetable.

Unfortunately he ran foul of their obsession with regimentalisation.

If he had used the excuse that he intended to go to the funeral (which is probably what his students did) he might have been treated rather differently.

(He might have had to show them the selfies though, which could have been a bit awkward).

PS. You're a fine one to lecture on ignorance of Thai culture, given that this particular big event has been getting up an enormous head of steam for 2 years and you've been blathering on as if it you didn't know what it was and who was involved. There were royals present, but it wasn't about them.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Enoon

[connda]

"My coworkers and I laughed it off."

This shows your attitude towards Thailand in general. Anyone who has been here longer than a day knows that the Thai Royal family are highly revered and worthy of respect. For you and your colleagues to decide you are above dragging your sorry @rses out of bed like the other teachers simply proves you have no respect for the school's request, for Thai culture or for the monarchy. As such, I'd say any animosity, real or imagined, has nothing to do with you receiving a higher wage, but more to do with your attitude which is quite frankly, lacking.

It was the supreme Patriarch (not an aristocrat or member of the monarchy): Funeral procession of Supreme Patriarch begins

There was no question of disrespect, the school wanted him there early as part of their procedural requirements which, as he points out, were irrelevant to his timetable.

Unfortunately he ran foul of their obsession with regimentalisation.

If he had used the excuse that he intended to go to the funeral (which is probably what his students did) he might have been treated rather differently.

(He might have had to show them the selfies though, which could have been a bit awkward).

It was the head monk of Thailand. The Supreme Patriarch, Somdet Phra Nyanasamvara Suvaddhana Mahathera, who died two years ago and was just cremated. Being a Theravadan Buddhist, I would have shown up at school at 6am, primarily because I have, "skin in the game", so to speak. This transcends Thai society and social conventions. For me it would have been different, so I would have 'paid respects'. However, I would not expect a non-Buddhist foreigner to show up for a school assembly in honour of a Buddhist patriarch.

[ev1lchris]

First of all, I'm not white.

Information about the road closure was given at the last minute. There was no notice. Not to mention the bts doesn't even start until 6 am.

Criticize me for not going in before 6 but this was poor planning on the school's part. Besides, I don't want to be treated like a slave like many Thais are.

It's okay about not having my contract extended. The Thai system is not competently run. I can take it or leave it.

[SOTIRIOS]

.....you have some valid points....

...but your attitude is not much better....

...the system is a mess...as is the country.....

...if not for tourism and foreigners....where the h*ll would they be.....

...but the sad underlying fact is that as a nation they have an alarmingly low I.Q.....

....one of the first things I learned AFTER I came here was that the avaerage I.Q. of Thai students was 89....

...so that is what you are 'dealing with'....or not....

...it does not make you 'better than them' in any way.....unless you really are...

...if you accept an invitation...which you did...you have to respect and abide by 'the rules of the house'....

...if you cannot do that....and have to hide behind your 'coworkers'....that is your shortcoming...

...be a man....have self-respect.....and respect others....

....God knows how you would behave if you happened to have been brought up in similar conditions to your Thai co-workers....

Edited December 18, 2015 by SOTIRIOS

[Squeegee]

If you/anyone are doing your best you will earn respect.

In the vast majority of cases that is absolute rubbish. Most of the time doing one's best will go unacknowledged and unrewarded, will still not be good enough or mark you as the same stupid falang that over-pays a cheap Sukhumvit whore.

All that bowing and scraping, saying yes to ridiculous nonsense and getting used and abused is not you getting respect, it's them getting face and a laugh at you. Simply being professional? Don't fool yourself anybody cares.

In the vast majority of cases one must do it for the students and that's all that matters until such time as the Thais and their system of anti-education is too much indignity for you.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Squeegee

[Lopchan]

"My coworkers and I laughed it off."

This shows your attitude towards Thailand in general. Anyone who has been here longer than a day knows that the Thai Royal family are highly revered and worthy of respect. For you and your colleagues to decide you are above dragging your sorry @rses out of bed like the other teachers simply proves you have no respect for the school's request, for Thai culture or for the monarchy. As such, I'd say any animosity, real or imagined, has nothing to do with you receiving a higher wage, but more to do with your attitude which is quite frankly, lacking.

It was the supreme Patriarch (not an aristocrat or member of the monarchy): Funeral procession of Supreme Patriarch begins

There was no question of disrespect, the school wanted him there early as part of their procedural requirements which, as he points out, were irrelevant to his timetable.

Unfortunately he ran foul of their obsession with regimentalisation.

If he had used the excuse that he intended to go to the funeral (which is probably what his students did) he might have been treated rather differently.

(He might have had to show them the selfies though, which could have been a bit awkward).

PS. You're a fine one to lecture on ignorance of Thai culture, given that this particular big event has been getting up an enormous head of steam for 2 years and you've been blathering on as if it you didn't know what it was and who was involved. There were royals present, but it wasn't about them.

If you read the OP, he stated Supreme MONARCH. I replied with that in mind. Regardless, I'll stand by what I originally said. If the school admin requests that you be there at a given time for a one off event which is important to the local people or Thai culture, why wouldn't you do that? We live here and as such should respect the local culture and traditions whether we agree with them or not. If not we need to stand in front of the mirror and ask ourselves do we really want to be here.

[saakura]

"My coworkers and I laughed it off."

This shows your attitude towards Thailand in general. Anyone who has been here longer than a day knows that the Thai Royal family are highly revered and worthy of respect. For you and your colleagues to decide you are above dragging your sorry @rses out of bed like the other teachers simply proves you have no respect for the school's request, for Thai culture or for the monarchy. As such, I'd say any animosity, real or imagined, has nothing to do with you receiving a higher wage, but more to do with your attitude which is quite frankly, lacking.

I agree that the Thais have an incentive to be there at 6am, but an NES teacher does not. There is no reason to show up at 6am unless you see some sort of benefit. If I was working for an International School making 100K+ THB/ month, sure, I'd show up at 6am with a smile on my face. Making 25k THB/ month at a Thai public school, I'd probably sleep in and show up for my classes. Respect is a two way street, but in Thailand, they have one lane blocked

You get paid what is decided by market forces, not just for being white skinned or NES.

Teachers at the International Schools have proper degrees from top universities, excellent extra-curricular qualifications in sports, music or arts and come from happy cohesive family backgrounds and are very good role models for students. Not too many of them around, so they can demand and get good money.

Teachers in local schools in the provinces are mostly with dodgy questionable credentials, no genuine interest in teaching children, probably just drifted here after breaking up with their families and take up teaching as they cannot find other work. Plenty of them around, they will be out of a job if they demand more.

This is a general observation and there may be exceptions on both sides. But your earnings should have no influence on respecting local traditions.

Edited December 18, 2015 by saakura

[konying]

"My coworkers and I laughed it off."

This shows your attitude towards Thailand in general. Anyone who has been here longer than a day knows that the Thai Royal family are highly revered and worthy of respect. For you and your colleagues to decide you are above dragging your sorry @rses out of bed like the other teachers simply proves you have no respect for the school's request, for Thai culture or for the monarchy. As such, I'd say any animosity, real or imagined, has nothing to do with you receiving a higher wage, but more to do with your attitude which is quite frankly, lacking.

It was the supreme Patriarch (not an aristocrat or member of the monarchy): Funeral procession of Supreme Patriarch begins

There was no question of disrespect, the school wanted him there early as part of their procedural requirements which, as he points out, were irrelevant to his timetable.

Unfortunately he ran foul of their obsession with regimentalisation.

If he had used the excuse that he intended to go to the funeral (which is probably what his students did) he might have been treated rather differently.

(He might have had to show them the selfies though, which could have been a bit awkward).

PS. You're a fine one to lecture on ignorance of Thai culture, given that this particular big event has been getting up an enormous head of steam for 2 years and you've been blathering on as if it you didn't know what it was and who was involved. There were royals present, but it wasn't about them.

If you read the OP, he stated Supreme MONARCH. I replied with that in mind. Regardless, I'll stand by what I originally said. If the school admin requests that you be there at a given time for a one off event which is important to the local people or Thai culture, why wouldn't you do that? We live here and as such should respect the local culture and traditions whether we agree with them or not. If not we need to stand in front of the mirror and ask ourselves do we really want to be here.

You live here and comment on what people should and should not do then preach about the culture and yet you did not know what OP meant?

Even if he wrote, monarch, do you not know there is no such a thing as Supreme Monarch?

Love all the experts who judge and give out advice, yet do not have a single clue or an ounce of experience, and hardly any common sense.

[Lopchan]

"My coworkers and I laughed it off."

This shows your attitude towards Thailand in general. Anyone who has been here longer than a day knows that the Thai Royal family are highly revered and worthy of respect. For you and your colleagues to decide you are above dragging your sorry @rses out of bed like the other teachers simply proves you have no respect for the school's request, for Thai culture or for the monarchy. As such, I'd say any animosity, real or imagined, has nothing to do with you receiving a higher wage, but more to do with your attitude which is quite frankly, lacking.

It was the supreme Patriarch (not an aristocrat or member of the monarchy): Funeral procession of Supreme Patriarch begins

There was no question of disrespect, the school wanted him there early as part of their procedural requirements which, as he points out, were irrelevant to his timetable.

Unfortunately he ran foul of their obsession with regimentalisation.

If he had used the excuse that he intended to go to the funeral (which is probably what his students did) he might have been treated rather differently.

(He might have had to show them the selfies though, which could have been a bit awkward).

PS. You're a fine one to lecture on ignorance of Thai culture, given that this particular big event has been getting up an enormous head of steam for 2 years and you've been blathering on as if it you didn't know what it was and who was involved. There were royals present, but it wasn't about them.

Blathering on, okay I'll bite: As you yourself stated, members of the Royal family were present. That being the case, I assumed that they may have been traveling the route mentioned, or perhaps been attending a separate function near his school. Is that so hard to understand?

Now, shut up your blathering about my blathering about the original blatherer or there will be all kinds of blathering from other blatherers of the blathering ilk.

[tonray]

This entire thread has been a "Supreme" waste of time.

To the OP...if you want Thai teachers to respect you, you need to stop 'laughing' off things they consider sacred. if you choose not to then you have no right to whine (yes whine) about how they hate you.

[attrayant]

I feel the animosity comes from a general sense of the Thai teachers (and a few of the foreign teachers) wondering why we won't follow their silly militaristic rules. Sometimes I think if the director told us all to stand at the gate with our fingers in our noses, everybody would just obediently comply without hesitation or objection. Where do we draw the line?

There is no reason to show up at 6 am unless you see some sort of benefit.

The only reason to show up at 6 a.m. (or any time) is because that's what's stated in your employment contract.

My contract states that I start at 8 a.m., but a few weeks into the first year I learned about "gate duty" which starts at 7:30. Sorry, but (1) it's before the contractual start time that both the employer and I agreed upon, and (2) gate duty has nothing to to with teaching. I also don't attend the many religious activities. This stubbornness isn't restricted to Thailand - back home I never attended Christmas mass because I'm not catholic. Why should I attend some buddhist ritual when I'm not buddhist? And "because that's the rule" or "because the director said so" isn't a valid reason.

To be honest, I sense just as much heartburn from other foreign teachers who obediently jump through the hoops when I won't. If the school thinks this activity is so important, then they're perfectly within their rights not to offer me a new contract the following year. Strangely, they continue to renew my contract year after year.

I'm far from lazy - I teach six or seven different subjects and don't mind doing the English Camp and other activities that are educational. I spend time after class tutoring students without being asked to do so. I spend hours of my personal time at home preparing labs and worksheets (math & science mostly) because there's almost no prep time given to us during the workday. I machined dozens of small magnesium plates (my own time & expense) so my chemistry students could make their own chemical batteries (the school provides NO hands-on supplies for the science subjects that I teach). I know the school is aware of this and I do get the occasional hint that they appreciate it.

I'll put 110% into any sort of teaching activity, but ask me to stand in front of the school for 30 minutes in the morning, so that I can say hello to the students as they walk in, and then start my first period class completely soaked in my own perspiration? Sorry - that's not going to happen.

[attrayant]

Okay I see the words "culture" and "sacred" popping up a lot in a thread about education and teaching. But go to any of the weekly threads we have about the problems with the Thai educational system and post after post shows how deeply some of the rituals are ingrained in the culture, with detrimental results. In other words, the culture is part of the problem. That's positively medieval.

But in this thread I see some folks saying we need to be obedient and comply because "it's part of their culture". In my opinion, education should be culture-blind and not slave to any "sacred" beliefs. I know that's a minority opinion and not likely to become very popular in feudal, reactionary Thailand, but there it is. Don't like it? Don't hire me.

Edited December 18, 2015 by attrayant

[KarenBravo]

"My coworkers and I laughed it off."

This shows your attitude towards Thailand in general. Anyone who has been here longer than a day knows that the Thai Royal family are highly revered and worthy of respect. For you and your colleagues to decide you are above dragging your sorry @rses out of bed like the other teachers simply proves you have no respect for the school's request, for Thai culture or for the monarchy. As such, I'd say any animosity, real or imagined, has nothing to do with you receiving a higher wage, but more to do with your attitude which is quite frankly, lacking.

It was the supreme Patriarch (not an aristocrat or member of the monarchy): Funeral procession of Supreme Patriarch begins

There was no question of disrespect, the school wanted him there early as part of their procedural requirements which, as he points out, were irrelevant to his timetable.

Unfortunately he ran foul of their obsession with regimentalisation.

If he had used the excuse that he intended to go to the funeral (which is probably what his students did) he might have been treated rather differently.

(He might have had to show them the selfies though, which could have been a bit awkward).

PS. You're a fine one to lecture on ignorance of Thai culture, given that this particular big event has been getting up an enormous head of steam for 2 years and you've been blathering on as if it you didn't know what it was and who was involved. There were royals present, but it wasn't about them.

If you read the OP, he stated Supreme MONARCH. I replied with that in mind. Regardless, I'll stand by what I originally said. If the school admin requests that you be there at a given time for a one off event which is important to the local people or Thai culture, why wouldn't you do that? We live here and as such should respect the local culture and traditions whether we agree with them or not. If not we need to stand in front of the mirror and ask ourselves do we really want to be here.

Ah yes.......you are a natural born flunky, door-mat and an expert in subservience. You will do well in this country.

[AsiaGIJoe]

I see a lot of interesting comments here. I can remember my grandfather telling me to do a good job at what ever you do and wherever you go watch and listen. Try not to make waves.

Edited December 18, 2015 by AsiaGIJoe

[wherma22]

You say you are tired of the Thai system.

Maybe the other teachers have a reason for not liking you.

From your attitude towards Thais they have good reason.

Go elsewhere you are only spoiling things for good teachers. Bye bye.

I will put it as delicate as I can

Considering you have 0 experience working with Thai and hardly any contact with Thai outside your room, just your wife and your nurse, you are in no position not only to comment on how things are but to tell someone where to go.

Amen!