"Hey You Farang", or are you really a human being at your school?

[lostinisaan]

Hello and Sawasdee khrap,

I thought that it’s worth to post it here, as many of us who’re working at Thai government schools do not receive the needed respect. It happened last Monday at a smaller government school somewhere in the lower northeast.

I’ve got two hours of grade six (P.6) classes per week and was in the middle of a lesson on Monday afternoon, when the homeroom teacher came inside and mumbled something that I couldn’t understand.

Having the kids’ noise around me, plus hearing a for me unknown word and I just didn’t get it.

So she started to talk to the students and this time, I could understand each and every word and it was pretty much annoying what she said.

She told the students “when the Farang has finished his lesson”, they can go home, because of the cremation of a teacher’s father.

I wanted to snap but decided to stay calm. When I later spoke to my wife and explained what happened, she was furious and she’ll be at school with me on Monday and we’ll see the friendly homeroom teacher, an old impertinent and not really smart teacher.

I don’t mind when people on the streets call us the "Farang", but when a Thai colleague of a small school is calling me “the Farang” in front of the students, it’s a completely different ballgame.

It’s just underlining my thesis that “they” use all possible opportunities to make us look bad in the eyes of the students. And when a teacher’s calling you “Farang”, how can you tell the students to call you teacher xxx?

Even the director of the school “wais” me higher than I wai him, with his thumbs up his nose. And he’s usually the one who starts to “wai” me. I’m just wondering how Thai colleagues are treating other foreigners at schools in the Land of Smiles.

It’s a great explanation for me why so many Thai students are louder when taught by a foreigner, than they are when they have a “bamboo stick Thai teacher” from the sticks, being in the sticks.

It would be great to read some posts where similar things happened and I tend to believe that there are some ways to change some Thai teachers’ minds in a way that they, at least, show the needed respect to us.

Thanks a lot in advance for any useful inputs, plus some ideas and maybe certain ways how to deal with such “phenomenal circumstances.”

I didn’t come to Thailand on a banana boat. I'm not picking on an old and horribly unsatisfied Thai teacher now,

I only want to be treated as a human being. Not more, not less. Am I really asking for too much now? Cheers.-

[moose7117]

you aint human !

you are falang !

[prestburypark]

Your very bold , in parts.

[Jip99]

I think it is actually a good example of how "matter of fact" the phrase is.

Clearly not intended to cause you any offense, the teacher simply used an everyday phrase of familiarity with those of her own language.

Whether she should have been more sensitive to your feelings is another matter.

The only surprise here is that your wife has taken umbrage - she is Thai and will understand the common usage, I suspect she uses it herself.

[onetime]

Thailand is, ostensibly, a caste society, just like India. There are levels. If you have white skin, money and you're from Bangkok, then you are at the top of the pile of dung. If you're dum dum (black skinned) and from Issan You're at the bottom of the pile of dung. If you're a farang, they will always try to position you somewhere under the pile of dung.

Then there is the ever present mao mao mao (trash talking) where they jockey for a higher position or status. This is achieved, for example, by having a car with a red plate and gaining 'face', which in their eyes, lifts them up. Or, they talk badly about another person, to put the person down so they can feel better about themselves. (Image/face is more important than substance in LOS)

You are never going to change this horrid culture. Why try? You can suffer in silence, or if you have any self respect, remove your self from the situation/Thailand.

[slipperylobster]

You should of just chided in something like...

"The Farang, by the way, is paid higher wages...for a reason".

Wouldn't it be great if Thai Teachers could earn the same?

[Matej]

Welcome in the country of smiles, THAIland, FALANG ...

[Mencken]

I am very much a human being. I know all 400 of my students by name. I've learned Ss names each year, but of course! Any teacher that does not know their students by name is a fraud. How can you spend weeks on end together, an entire year sff and not bother to learn their names?! That's a lack of respect. Students love and respect me for it. Outside class, they enjoy quizzing me, T Mencken..my name?!??

I chat with them on campus as well as coming and going to school. I feel I'm by and large quite liked and respected by most of my students. I'm very attached to some of my better kids, I almost think of them as extended family.

Even kids I don't teach smile, wave, say hello and wai me.

It's about who you are, what you project, are you a winner or loser? Are you a teacher or a joker? Do you project energy or exhaustion?

Thai teachers, especially younger ones often wai me first. We ng treated well is all about being engaged. If you are not engaged, just give it up, you're not fooling anyone, least if all the kids.

If you have been in Thailand over a year and still lost or don't care (not my culture) do us all a favor and go home.

[stoneyboy]

I am very much a human being. I know all 400 of my students by name. I've learned Ss names each year, but of course! Any teacher that does not know their students by name is a fraud. How can you spend weeks on end together, an entire year sff and not bother to learn their names?! That's a lack of respect. Students love and respect me for it. Outside class, they enjoy quizzing me, T Mencken..my name?!??

I chat with them on campus as well as coming and going to school. I feel I'm by and large quite liked and respected by most of my students. I'm very attached to some of my better kids, I almost think of them as extended family.

Even kids I don't teach smile, wave, say hello and wai me.

It's about who you are, what you project, are you a winner or loser? Are you a teacher or a joker? Do you project energy or exhaustion?

Thai teachers, especially younger ones often wai me first. We ng treated well is all about being engaged. If you are not engaged, just give it up, you're not fooling anyone, least if all the kids.

If you have been in Thailand over a year and still lost or don't care (not my culture) do us all a favor and go home.

The old put up or go home reply,that's so last century mate.

[Mencken]

Thai (teachers) are another story. I take the good with the bad and try to remember that my own country is full of trash talking, bigoted, willfully ignorant sociopaths.

I like you will always be insulted and !at quit due to it one day, I just try to focus on the lovely students and not the problematic teachers, bigoted administrators and dullard students.

[Mencken]

I am very much a human being. I know all 400 of my students by name. I've learned Ss names each year, but of course! Any teacher that does not know their students by name is a fraud. How can you spend weeks on end together, an entire year sff and not bother to learn their names?! That's a lack of respect. Students love and respect me for it. Outside class, they enjoy quizzing me, T Mencken..my name?!??

I chat with them on campus as well as coming and going to school. I feel I'm by and large quite liked and respected by most of my students. I'm very attached to some of my better kids, I almost think of them as extended family.

Even kids I don't teach smile, wave, say hello and wai me.

It's about who you are, what you project, are you a winner or loser? Are you a teacher or a joker? Do you project energy or exhaustion?

Thai teachers, especially younger ones often wai me first. We ng treated well is all about being engaged. If you are not engaged, just give it up, you're not fooling anyone, least if all the kids.

If you have been in Thailand over a year and still lost or don't care (not my culture) do us all a favor and go home.

The old put up or go home reply,that's so last century mate.

A bit too close to the bone, understood.

[simon43]

she is Thai and will understand the common usage...

... which is a derogatory, lazy or disrespectful term for a foreigner.

I know there are countless posts on this forum about the word 'farang', and heated debate as to whether it is a polite way to describe a foreigner or a not-so-polite way.

The bottom line is that Lost In Issan is working as a teacher in this school. The Thai teacher must surely know his name. It is totally disrespectful not to address him as 'Teacher xxx' or 'Ajarn xxx'.

It would be equally rude if I were working in a Thai school with Thai teaching colleagues, and to address my class of kids 'When this Thai person has finished, then I'll do yyyy etc'.

It is just plain rude and ignorant, and I rebuke any Thai person who addresses me as 'farang'. I have a name. If you don't know my name, then you could say 'khon dang chat'.

Please only use 'farang' when you're shopping in the fruit market.

[chrisinth]

I think it is actually a good example of how "matter of fact" the phrase is.

Clearly not intended to cause you any offense, the teacher simply used an everyday phrase of familiarity with those of her own language.

Whether she should have been more sensitive to your feelings is another matter.

The only surprise here is that your wife has taken umbrage - she is Thai and will understand the common usage, I suspect she uses it herself.

I would agree with that as the main point of the interuption was to inform the kids of the cremation and the rest of the day off.

That said, she should maybe have addressed you by name if she knew it or could pronounce it.

[Jip99]

she is Thai and will understand the common usage...

... which is a derogatory, lazy or disrespectful term for a foreigner.

I know there are countless posts on this forum about the word 'farang', and heated debate as to whether it is a polite way to describe a foreigner or a not-so-polite way.

The bottom line is that Lost In Issan is working as a teacher in this school. The Thai teacher must surely know his name. It is totally disrespectful not to address him as 'Teacher xxx' or 'Ajarn xxx'.

It would be equally rude if I were working in a Thai school with Thai teaching colleagues, and to address my class of kids 'When this Thai person has finished, then I'll do yyyy etc'.

It is just plain rude and ignorant, and I rebuke any Thai person who addresses me as 'farang'. I have a name. If you don't know my name, then you could say 'khon dang chat'.

Please only use 'farang' when you're shopping in the fruit market.

She was not addressing the Farang , she was talking to the class and referring to lost in isaan in the third party.

You have been here long enough to know that (especially in Isaan where the OP is based) this is common practice. It is less likely that you will be directly addressed as Farang. From memory the only people to have done this with me are the police.

I will be interested to hear the outcome of Mrs lost in isaan's meeting tomorrow.

[simon43]

You have been here long enough to know that (especially in Isaan where the OP is based) this is common practice

Yes, which is why I call people out every time that they do it. IMHO, using the word to address a 3rd party is even worse that saying 'hey you, you farang', (as security guards often do).

I note that in every case that I have personally encountered where I have called out the person using this word, they have subsequently always used my name or 'ajarn' or 'khon dang chat'. No face lost, no grudges held against me either.

I do not accept the 'weak' excuses of 'you not understand', 'this is Thai way' etc. That is for the rose-tinted guys. I politely explain in Thai language why this term should not be used, that it is considered rude and an improper term by many foreigners, and that there are more polite and respectful ways to address a foreigner, (especially a teacher, which is a respected profession in Thailand).

I don't have this problem when I work in Myanmar. The Burmese all address me as 'Saya' (akin to calling a medical doctor 'Doctor'). It is the correct term of respect for addressing someone in that profession.

A little education can go a long way

[lostinisaan]

Thailand is, ostensibly, a caste society, just like India. There are levels. If you have white skin, money and you're from Bangkok, then you are at the top of the pile of dung. If you're dum dum (black skinned) and from Issan You're at the bottom of the pile of dung. If you're a farang, they will always try to position you somewhere under the pile of dung.

Then there is the ever present mao mao mao (trash talking) where they jockey for a higher position or status. This is achieved, for example, by having a car with a red plate and gaining 'face', which in their eyes, lifts them up. Or, they talk badly about another person, to put the person down so they can feel better about themselves. (Image/face is more important than substance in LOS)

You are never going to change this horrid culture. Why try? You can suffer in silence, or if you have any self respect, remove your self from the situation/Thailand.

A "onetime" post that's not even worth to reply to.

[riclag]

Spot on

she is Thai and will understand the common usage...

... which is a derogatory, lazy or disrespectful term for a foreigner.

I know there are countless posts on this forum about the word 'farang', and heated debate as to whether it is a polite way to describe a foreigner or a not-so-polite way.

The bottom line is that Lost In Issan is working as a teacher in this school. The Thai teacher must surely know his name. It is totally disrespectful not to address him as 'Teacher xxx' or 'Ajarn xxx'.

It would be equally rude if I were working in a Thai school with Thai teaching colleagues, and to address my class of kids 'When this Thai person has finished, then I'll do yyyy etc'.

It is just plain rude and ignorant, and I rebuke any Thai person who addresses me as 'farang'. I have a name. If you don't know my name, then you could say 'khon dang chat'.

Please only use 'farang' when you're shopping in the fruit market.

[lostinisaan]

I am very much a human being. I know all 400 of my students by name. I've learned Ss names each year, but of course! Any teacher that does not know their students by name is a fraud. How can you spend weeks on end together, an entire year sff and not bother to learn their names?! That's a lack of respect. Students love and respect me for it. Outside class, they enjoy quizzing me, T Mencken..my name?!??

I chat with them on campus as well as coming and going to school. I feel I'm by and large quite liked and respected by most of my students. I'm very attached to some of my better kids, I almost think of them as extended family.

Even kids I don't teach smile, wave, say hello and wai me.

It's about who you are, what you project, are you a winner or loser? Are you a teacher or a joker? Do you project energy or exhaustion?

Thai teachers, especially younger ones often wai me first. We ng treated well is all about being engaged. If you are not engaged, just give it up, you're not fooling anyone, least if all the kids.

If you have been in Thailand over a year and still lost or don't care (not my culture) do us all a favor and go home.

Mencken, it seems that you've underestimated the length of the runway with your post. Any teacher "that does not know"?

It seems that you're very good at speaking lower northeast Isaan, where "mann" refers to a husband who isn't there when women have a chat. "Mann Bai Sai?" Mann= it, the thing. "Where's the thing?"

BTW, I can help myself and the OP wasn't about students at all. We've got 1,200 of them....

Nobody wanted to read your opinion how your students see you. They might have a totally different opinion about you.

The post was about "educated educators" who aren't educated at all, with the tendency to cover their ignorance with gossip.

I'm willing to send you a pair of brand new reading glasses as a Christmas present. Please page me your address.

[tinat]

she is Thai and will understand the common usage...

... which is a derogatory, lazy or disrespectful term for a foreigner.

I know there are countless posts on this forum about the word 'farang', and heated debate as to whether it is a polite way to describe a foreigner or a not-so-polite way.

The bottom line is that Lost In Issan is working as a teacher in this school. The Thai teacher must surely know his name. It is totally disrespectful not to address him as 'Teacher xxx' or 'Ajarn xxx'.

It would be equally rude if I were working in a Thai school with Thai teaching colleagues, and to address my class of kids 'When this Thai person has finished, then I'll do yyyy etc'.

It is just plain rude and ignorant, and I rebuke any Thai person who addresses me as 'farang'. I have a name. If you don't know my name, then you could say 'khon dang chat'.

Please only use 'farang' when you're shopping in the fruit market.

He is not an Ajarn, he is a Kru.

[simon43]

He is not an Ajarn, he is a Kru.

The difference between ajarn and kru is not relevant to this topic..

But your comment is strange, because my Prathom kids either call me 'Teacher Simon' or 'Ajarn Simon'. Other Thai kids that I've taught call me 'kru'.

[lostinisaan]

I think it is actually a good example of how "matter of fact" the phrase is.

Clearly not intended to cause you any offense, the teacher simply used an everyday phrase of familiarity with those of her own language.

Whether she should have been more sensitive to your feelings is another matter.

The only surprise here is that your wife has taken umbrage - she is Thai and will understand the common usage, I suspect she uses it herself.

I would agree with that as the main point of the interuption was to inform the kids of the cremation and the rest of the day off.

That said, she should maybe have addressed you by name if she knew it or could pronounce it.

She knows my name and using "khun kru tang chat" is free. BTW, my name's as short as bike with a similar sound. So no excuse.

[tonray]

I would have only been insulted if she had sent them home because the farang was being cremated tomorrow

[puffy]

She either doesn't like you or really hates all foreigners. If she had any respect for you she would call you Kru or Ajarn or your name.

All Thai people I have known for a while call me Khun or just my name. She will be fully aware she is being rude to you, and that is

why your wife is so angry because she also knows this.

[Rob13]

The disrespect isn't so much about being called a farang as much as not calling a fellow teacher by his name,especially in front of the students.

[Mencken]

So why bring the issue here then, speak with the teacher. It's surely said with disdain.

Will you be looking for another job or just going to suffer the indignity?

If I were you I'd give it one last chance then turn in my resignation.

OR...suck it up and just post your I'll feelings here as catharsis.

[Mencken]

The disrespect isn't so much about being called a farang as much as not calling a fellow teacher by his name,especially in front of the students.

True dat

[lostinisaan]

She either doesn't like you or really hates all foreigners. If she had any respect for you she would call you Kru or Ajarn or your name.

All Thai people I have known for a while call me Khun or just my name. She will be fully aware she is being rude to you, and that is

why your wife is so angry because she also knows this.

She's one of these people who're constantly part of the daily school gossip. Most of them are jealous because they believe I'm mostly working in air conditioned classes doing next to nothing.I'm only teaching two grade six classes per week, the other 18 hours are in the EP section.

What they don't see is that I'm working my arse off by teaching math and science to a grade one and a grade two class. They don't see me sitting behind the monitor creating worksheets on weekends, correcting them, giving them home work every day, etc.....

They don't see me when I fix the PC's and keep them running, wasting a lot of my usually free time, when they update their farcebook page.

They don't see me when I'm surrounded by four students to train them for all sorts competitions after a six hour straight teaching day, while my two Asian colleagues are acting like they've got nothing to do with it. They're the ones who're teaching them...

I conducted various seminars, one of them was for the whole staff of the educational area xxx office, including the supervisor, vice director and the director.

They all call me "Ajarn" and the English teachers at my school had to attend two of the seminars as trainees, because they scored very bad in an English test.

So yes, they all know my name and I won't accept such rude behavior of an old and unsatisfied woman, who pretends to be a teacher.

Would she be educated, I pretty much doubt that she'd use such an ignorant language. I completely understand the reason why some of them look down at foreign teachers.

They're trying to badmouth others for the sake of their own credibility and covering their poor knowledge of the subject they're teaching.

I live in an area where usually women refer to their "beloved husbands" as "Mann." " Mann Bai Sai?" Which basically means: " Where's the thing?" Mann, a common word for lower class Isaan people.

My wife's from a village only 6 km away and all the teachers and government officials respect me for who I am and what I am.

I'm old enough to understand how to deal with such an "issue" and my wife will have a chat with this teacher tomorrow, because a Thai talking to a Thai makes more sense to me.

I do not think that she'll call me Farang again. At least not in front of students, which was my point of posting this.

Finally, thanks a lot to the ignorant people who wrote that I should go back home. You're as ignorant as the Thai teacher i was on about.

[Squeegee]

I sympathise.

There was an old bag like that at my last school in Thailand. The P5 'English' teacher who could barely string a sentence together in it. She would completely ignore me and refer to me as the falang to students so I pulled her aside and told her I am a human being with a name. Her thunderous face thereafter was a real pleasure.

[lemonjelly]

You're going to take your wife to school and cause a scene?..... You're kidding right?

[lostinisaan]

You're going to take your wife to school and cause a scene?..... You're kidding right?

Am I kidding? Nope. But that's not the way that anybody "will cause a scene" where two women beat the <deleted> out of each other in front of all students at the morning flag up ceremony.... ( Would be worth doing so and then posting it on utube)

My wife's sometimes with me when a teacher's sick, or a teacher's relative passed away, just to make sure that somebody's around.

It helps me a lot to keep them quiet and parents satisfied. So it's not uncommon when they see her around on campus. She's got a great relationship with the superiors and she's really liked by all. She might "bump into her" at lunch and a short chat will do the rest.

It will be solved the old always functioning Thai way where nobody's losing face. None of the superiors will be informed. just a short chat.