Thailand vs Panama

[Jacks77]

Before coming to Thailand 4 yrs ago I stoped in Panama. The original plan was to live there but after I visited thailand I ended up staying.

Big advantages is that they use the US dollar and you can own land without any problems. Seemed like they are not so paranoid about foreigners taking away their autonomy like these idiots do here.

The air is cleaner and eating a nice peice of steak is a lot cheaper.

There are many expats living in David which is the equivalent of chiang mai (higher elevation and cooler weather) and in Bocas del Toro which is comparable to Phuket.

Panana is not as developted as thailand, if it was I would be there.

I heard a lot has changed in the past yrs, they now have a subway system.

Freedom to do business in Pamana is much greater than thailand where u need a thai partner for everything.

I definately think the country is much more welcoming to foreigners than thailand. I still have thoughts about relocating there.

[bazza40]

Yes I have lived in Panama and can say it is much more friendly that Thailand for retirement. No currency restirctions and lots of people speak english

The infrastructure is very good and the cost of living is about the same as in Thailand.

Once big advantage is the government is very stable and its close proximity to the United States .

I have been seriously considering moving to Panama and do away with this society here in Thailand They do not care about you other than your money. Evident with the 2 tear system

such as park entry fees and other fees which are higher for falang.

The only think keeping me here is my girlfriend but that is also loosing some of its pull

You have the nom de plume of realenglish1, and restrictions, 2 tier, thing, and losing can't be spelled correctly by you? Normally I am tolerant of the illiteracy present on TV; however, this is too much. Realenglish my foot.

Edited December 22, 2015 by bazza40

[JB300]

Following this thread with interest as I've never been to South America but would love to do a 6-9 month tour covering Panama, Columbia, Ecuador etc to see what it would be like living there.

Is the level of English reasonable there (my Spanish is schoolboy stuff) or should one learn the lingo (Spanish or Portuguese?) before going?

[Jingthing]

I'd say for going as a tourist its worthwhile to refresh a beginner's level. For living it's more of a necessity to learn the language than in Thailand.

Chile is gaining in popularity too. Not cheap but quite developed.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Jingthing

[craigt3365]

We spent a month cruising around Panama. Nice country, but I'll stick with Thailand. Security is a bit of an issue. Food is ok, but not nearly as good as here, IMHO. PC is ok. Traffic is terrible. As is the air quality downtown. Plenty of crime. The green season can be tough. Many leave during this time of year, same with Costa Rica. But many live there and like it!

[KittenKong]

Medellin seems to be a bit of a red herring. No sensible long-term visa arrangements and high taxes put it right off the menu as far as I'm concerned.

A shame as the cost of living and climate and language would be perfect for me, and all other things being equal (for example, the availability of foreign restaurants) I would go there like a shot.

how is 180 days ( 6 months ) that bad, you get nothing like this oppotunity in thailand.

A 6-month visa is of little interest to a retiree like me.

In Thailand an indefinite retirement extension costs me 1900B per year (+ 800kB in the bank earning tax-free interest) with no obligation to leave the country at all if I care not to. I would be looking for something similar or better elsewhere.

Edited December 22, 2015 by KittenKong

[KittenKong]

You have the nom de plume of realenglish1, and restrictions, 2 tier, thing, and losing can't be spelled correctly by you? Normally I am tolerant of the illiteracy present on TV; however, this is too much. Realenglish my foot.

Many real Englishmen are illiterate. Richard Branson is dyslexic. (Not that dyslexia is in any way equal to illiteracy.)

[Lampang2]

Been to Panama and Colombia, Mexico, number of times.

Knowing the language, the culture, the music etc is a big plus for South America, but I don't think the level of cost or safety can compete.

Panama is a bit boring, smal country.

Bogota traffic is intense.

Mexico city same.

Not very nice environments.

I never visited baranquilla, I think there is hope for the Colombian Atlantic coast.

Love dictated where I ended up.

Could easily have been south America as well.

[Jingthing]

Perhaps Colombia will improve their visa situation. Something to watch. Bogota (or Mexico City) would not be a popular choice for a pleasurable expatriation though of course many people have business reasons to be there.

I "researched" a bit about David, Panama. It really comes off as a provincial backwater and Panama City sounds too intense. Oh well.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Jingthing

[mrfaroukh]

I hope this isn't too annoyingly off topic, but have considered Medellin, Colombia? It's becoming quite the popular expat destination and the WEATHER is much more pleasant than Bangkok and especially Panama City.

Thank you for your suggestion. I'm interested to hear about the weather in those three places. Can you tell me your experiences. I've been to Bangkok many times but not the other two destinations.

Just google all your questions and you find the right answers.

[spidermike007]

Panama; $5000.00 US in a bank to get a retirement visa. No 90 day check-ins. If you play it smart, you get free health care and a discount card for may stores. There are banking privacy laws, and there's no tax treaty with the USA. Any money made outside of Panama is not taxed. You can own land and a business. Residential burglaries happen if you're not prepared. Police ride two-up with a pistol grip shotgun. Security everywhere.

Medellin, Columbia and Villkabomba(?), Ecuador sit a 1500 meters above sea level, so the weather is really nice and, if you like a garden, it's got really rich soil. Can't tell you about the visa's, but I hear Ecuador has become a bit nationalistic and there's a huge import tax (read; a bit like Thailand)

I think your info is really off on Panama.

There is an income residency method but it is much higher than 50K USD.

On the other hand there is a pension method which is quite low, last info I have is 1K per month but they might have changed.

Ecuador is low cost pension eligibility as well. Lower pension or bank account (frozen funds) of 20K USD last time I checked.

If you're saying U.S. nationals are not required to file FBAR / FACTA on Panama bank accounts, I find that hard to believe.

He is not saying that. He is saying the Panamanians do not have their legs wide open, with regard to American officials. That they respect privacy. That is a beautiful thing. American requirements still apply. Up to us to say take a hike you freaks.

[spidermike007]

Before coming to Thailand 4 yrs ago I stoped in Panama. The original plan was to live there but after I visited thailand I ended up staying.

Big advantages is that they use the US dollar and you can own land without any problems. Seemed like they are not so paranoid about foreigners taking away their autonomy like these idiots do here.

The air is cleaner and eating a nice peice of steak is a lot cheaper.

There are many expats living in David which is the equivalent of chiang mai (higher elevation and cooler weather) and in Bocas del Toro which is comparable to Phuket.

Panana is not as developted as thailand, if it was I would be there.

I heard a lot has changed in the past yrs, they now have a subway system.

Freedom to do business in Pamana is much greater than thailand where u need a thai partner for everything.

I definately think the country is much more welcoming to foreigners than thailand. I still have thoughts about relocating there.

The other aspect of living in Latin America that would appeal to me would be the ability to socialize with very sophisticated, cultured locals, who are well versed in literature, dance, film, theatre, jazz, fine wine, and other things that make life rich and varied. The fact that many they are so much more cosmopolitan than 99% of Thais offers a lot of appeal. Plus, they want to get to know you, unlike here in Thailand, where the level of indifference toward most of us is both astonishing and remarkable.

I have a friend who has been living in Bangkok for over 10 years. He is older, affluent, and has a Taiwanese American wife. They are both very refined. They are leaving due to the fact that they say they have not been able to meet and befriend fascinating people here. They have some foreign friends. But, very few Thai friends. And they are smart, sophisticated, interesting people. Thais just do not seem all that interested in befriending us. For me, that is a tough pill to swallow. Getting to know the locals has always been a rich experience. It is not an easy thing here. I am sure there are exceptions, but for many of us, we wonder why we have so few Thai friends. I meet some people through my Thai wife. But they do not seem all that motivated to mix it up much.

Lastly, the language. Spanish is far easier to learn than Thai. Partly because most Latin American people have an ear for language. The Thai people do not. If you mispronounce a word the tiniest bit, they have no ability, nor any interest in trying to figure out what you are saying. If you botch a sentence, they have no concept of what you are trying to say. Not so in Latin America, as the people are far more creative in their ability to extrapolate and figure out what you are trying to say. That trait simply does not exist here.

Edited December 22, 2015 by spidermike007

[ehw200]

I have a Panamanian residency visa

cost me $1500 as you must hire a lawyer to do it for you by law

again Panamanians taking care of their own at the expense of the foreignor

customer service is almost non existant

if you have a problem in a restaurant their attitude is,,, if you don't like it don't come back

people here complain about the dirty beaches and noise

they ain't seen nothin yet

people throw their garbage all over the place

boom trucks,,, speakers on wheels cranked full volume,,, have a nice day at the beach

it is incredibly corrupt but they hide it better than Thailand

if a lawyer rips you off for 20 or 30k

you can take him to court, it will take about 5 years and lots of legal fees and you will lose

anyway I am fed up

I have been coming to Thailand for the last 7 years due to the need for a mental health break

in most places you need to worry about the poor stealing from you

in Panama it is the rich and your fellow countrymen

that being said I do have many Panamanian friends who are good people

but most of my friends there are from Colombia

the only advantage I can see is that you can own land there

and the Pensionado visa lasts indefinitely

and comes with some small discounts, best ones are the hotels

the thing that made me sign up was being able to import a car Tax and duty free

well our last president (who is currently being sheltered in the US government now as he kissed their ass when he was in power)

got rid of that benefit with no grandfather clause or return of the money I spent for the visa

probably because his friends own car dealerships

I am not aware of the buy a house and have 5k in the bank deal

I would check on this and not on the internet

there are many old posts out there with information that is no longer correct

I opened an account in the US as I got tired of being screwed over by the banks there

last straw was when they started calling debit card transaction from outside the country an international transfer

to take out $500 in say Costa Rica

$25 for the transaction then a percentage of the amount and finally a 7% tax on the charges

In my opinion Costa Rica started the ex pat thing by rolling out the red carpet

when they had enough suckers, they yanked the carpet away and screwed them all

then it was Panama's turn

now apparently it is Colombia and Equador turn

I know many people that started in Costa Rica, then got out and moved to Panama

and are now living in Colombia

I consider them slow learners as they can't see the trend

if I sound a little bitter,,,it is because I am

I am waiting for the Chinese to do the canal through Nicaragua

as Panama manufactures almost nothing,,,they will find themselves really screwed

p.s. I did enjoy living in Panama city a bit but certainly no where near the beaches where I live now

where when the drunks need to piss they stagger across the street to piss on our houses

and when my house got robbed, my neighbor saw the thief and then saw him the next day mixing cement down the road

the neighbor went to the police, told them where to find the man and he could identify him

they told him the robbery was my fault as I should have and be paying a guard,,,ever hear of gringo prices

Fed Up

I AM MOVING TO THAILAND

[Jingthing]

Grass is always greener!

[MauiSteveBKK]

I subscribe to "International Living" magazine -- it's totally devoted to living in

foreign countries for USA people and how to make money in other countries.

The magazine and on-line edition often RAVE about Panama & Ecuador.

Here is a free review of living in Ecuador: https://signup.internationalliving.com/X120KJ04/ecuador/ecuador-living

Here is a link for a free review of living in Panama. https://signup.internationalliving.com/X120KQ04/panama/panama-living

+ If you need to get back to the USA quickly (possible consideration) SA is better.

+ Weather - no "heat" all the time - clean air.

+ Many cities & countries to explore from your "base" in either country.

+ Rio is a lot of fun.

+ Go for 3 months - or 6 months - and see what you think.

+ My experience - a "BIT" more English and more respect for USA men and women.

Good Luck with your decision.

Best wishes.

[rhodie]

I think too many underestimate the crime/lawless factor in South America. I have not been, so second hand information, but I have spoken to many expats and tourists and the one theme is that you never feel safe.

Spoke to a German guy who bought a place in Rio 14 years ago. He has just had enough of always worrying about his safety. Has been traveling a lot in SEA and never has that feeling here. Just one recent example of a lot of experiences I have heard.

[SoiBiker]

Panama has better hats.

[1FinickyOne]

Have you considered outside of Bangkok? There are smaller cities with Central Malls - if that is a big consideration… CM and CR in the north are nice but for the 3 weeks of bad air in burning season… a good excuse to vacation elsewhere for a while… many other places too if you do not want streets crowded w/expats.

I have spent a fair amount of time in Ecuador and enjoyed it, but I enjoy the Thai culture more so - it is unique. Some of the things that others find challenging, are fun for me - learning the language and cultural differences - and accepting them. There seems to be a lot of talk of visas etc above but if you qualify, then it really is not that difficult.

[smotherb]

Depends what you're looking for.

That more or less covers any situation, if you have a choice.

The weather and a lower cost of living may be the only similarities we are discussing here.

I would place more thought on the cultural, religious, emotional, and physical differences between the peoples. Latins are not Asians and vice versa.

[craigt3365]

I subscribe to "International Living" magazine -- it's totally devoted to living in

foreign countries for USA people and how to make money in other countries.

The magazine and on-line edition often RAVE about Panama & Ecuador.

Here is a free review of living in Ecuador: https://signup.internationalliving.com/X120KJ04/ecuador/ecuador-living

Here is a link for a free review of living in Panama. https://signup.internationalliving.com/X120KQ04/panama/panama-living

+ If you need to get back to the USA quickly (possible consideration) SA is better.

+ Weather - no "heat" all the time - clean air.

+ Many cities & countries to explore from your "base" in either country.

+ Rio is a lot of fun.

+ Go for 3 months - or 6 months - and see what you think.

+ My experience - a "BIT" more English and more respect for USA men and women.

Good Luck with your decision.

Best wishes.

International Living is a bit of a scam. They put on seminars in the US where they make money to get people to go to Panama to buy into their real estate developments. It's all honey and roses in their articles. Very biased. I'd stick with the expat blogs. Seem to have more reliable info.

ehw200's post is what I experienced also during my many, many months of travel in Mexico, CA and SA. Some great places to visit. But nothing compared to here. My wife has a USA visa. So easy to live in various places around the world. We chose Thailand after many years of traveling around and doing research. She asked yesterday if we had a lot of money would we live here? The answer was no. But not sure where as places we investigated were low cost options.

Ecuador is OK. But just so. And it gets cold!!!!!! I'd love to visit Colombia, but not sure I'd like to live there. Hopefully someday, I'll get to go there.

Funny note. I'd read that Boquete was the #1 retirement destination for Americans according to AARP. So, we visited Panama City. No way, for reasons ehw200 pointed out. Bocas del Toro. Nice islands. But spread out, need a boat to go from island to island. A bit dirty. And DEAD during the green season. Visited Anton Valley. Absolutely beautiful, but nothing to do. Then Boquete on our way to Costa Rica. After stepping in dog poop 3 times, struggling to find a nice hotel, failing to find a decent grocery store, and seeing every window covered with iron bars, we left the next day.

[ClutchClark]

I lived and worked in Panama City for a year. This was about 15 years ago (or a maybe a little more). It was the last year that we had US bases there. I enjoyed it but would never choose it for city living over Bangkok. Restaurants, shopping, and entertainment options didn't even compare to BKK. It seemed like nobody went out before 10:00 PM to clubs.

Traffic was not as bad as Bangkok though. I drove around in Panama City but would never consider driving in Bangkok. PC didn't have anything like the skytrain system but cabs were cheap and pretty honest.

Fully agree with you on all points but I don't think 90% of the guys on TVF care if its hot & humid outside because they don't spend time outside.

Ofcourse, I am a happily married man today but the opportunities for finding a good GF or wife are much better here in Thailand.

And the chance you will be a victim of crime is much higher in Latin America than here.

[Berkshire]

I have a Panamanian residency visa

cost me $1500 as you must hire a lawyer to do it for you by law

again Panamanians taking care of their own at the expense of the foreignor

customer service is almost non existant

if you have a problem in a restaurant their attitude is,,, if you don't like it don't come back

people here complain about the dirty beaches and noise

they ain't seen nothin yet

people throw their garbage all over the place

boom trucks,,, speakers on wheels cranked full volume,,, have a nice day at the beach

it is incredibly corrupt but they hide it better than Thailand

if a lawyer rips you off for 20 or 30k

you can take him to court, it will take about 5 years and lots of legal fees and you will lose

anyway I am fed up

I have been coming to Thailand for the last 7 years due to the need for a mental health break

in most places you need to worry about the poor stealing from you

in Panama it is the rich and your fellow countrymen

that being said I do have many Panamanian friends who are good people

but most of my friends there are from Colombia

the only advantage I can see is that you can own land there

and the Pensionado visa lasts indefinitely

and comes with some small discounts, best ones are the hotels

the thing that made me sign up was being able to import a car Tax and duty free

well our last president (who is currently being sheltered in the US government now as he kissed their ass when he was in power)

got rid of that benefit with no grandfather clause or return of the money I spent for the visa

probably because his friends own car dealerships

I am not aware of the buy a house and have 5k in the bank deal

I would check on this and not on the internet

there are many old posts out there with information that is no longer correct

I opened an account in the US as I got tired of being screwed over by the banks there

last straw was when they started calling debit card transaction from outside the country an international transfer

to take out $500 in say Costa Rica

$25 for the transaction then a percentage of the amount and finally a 7% tax on the charges

In my opinion Costa Rica started the ex pat thing by rolling out the red carpet

when they had enough suckers, they yanked the carpet away and screwed them all

then it was Panama's turn

now apparently it is Colombia and Equador turn

I know many people that started in Costa Rica, then got out and moved to Panama

and are now living in Colombia

I consider them slow learners as they can't see the trend

if I sound a little bitter,,,it is because I am

I am waiting for the Chinese to do the canal through Nicaragua

as Panama manufactures almost nothing,,,they will find themselves really screwed

p.s. I did enjoy living in Panama city a bit but certainly no where near the beaches where I live now

where when the drunks need to piss they stagger across the street to piss on our houses

and when my house got robbed, my neighbor saw the thief and then saw him the next day mixing cement down the road

the neighbor went to the police, told them where to find the man and he could identify him

they told him the robbery was my fault as I should have and be paying a guard,,,ever hear of gringo prices

Fed Up

I AM MOVING TO THAILAND

Thanks for sharing. This is pretty much how I see the whole of Latin America. Thailand is paradise in comparison.

[thailandstupidlife]

Exactly what I was thinking...

And it's safe now that Pablo is dead :-)

I hope this isn't too annoyingly off topic, but have considered Medellin, Colombia? It's becoming quite the popular expat destination and the WEATHER is much more pleasant than Bangkok and especially Panama City.

[spidermike007]

I think too many underestimate the crime/lawless factor in South America. I have not been, so second hand information, but I have spoken to many expats and tourists and the one theme is that you never feel safe.

Spoke to a German guy who bought a place in Rio 14 years ago. He has just had enough of always worrying about his safety. Has been traveling a lot in SEA and never has that feeling here. Just one recent example of a lot of experiences I have heard.

That would have to be a big factor in my equation. I do enjoy the security here in the LOS. I have never once felt threatened. I travel to the DR, and just walking down the street is a challenge, at night. I have been to Panama and thought it seemed pretty nice. I love Latin American in general. I find the average person to be far, far more sophisticated than most Thais, and the middle and upper class blow away the Thais, in terms of sophistication, elegance, class, awareness of the world, education, etc. No comparison. Infinitely more cosmopolitan. But, I would be concerned about the security. I have friend who will not travel in Brazil, without an armed bodyguard, they tell me it is that out of control. I am told by friends who travel to Colombia, that it is a regional thing, and that as long as you stay away from certain areas, it is fine. And they tell me the food is great, the women are amazing, the culture is wonderful, and you can find lovely apartments in the higher floors of condo towers for around $500 per month. The culture is something I do miss here. It would sure be nice to attend a ballet performance, or see some excellent jazz, or visit a good fine art museum, or theatre occasionally.

[Mousehound]

Panama has better hats.

I tip mine too you for that one. Very witty!

[Mousehound]

A good friend - ex resident of Alaska - has retired in Panama for the last two years. He is up in the highland area where it looks like parts of Europe. Very pretty. His take is that it is really simple to retire there - at least as an American. He is loving it and enjoys a good life. I had my heart set on Chiang Mai but as things are evolving - especially with the visa situation, inability to own a house and rapidly rising prices I am drawn to Panama as an alternative. For me the biggest obstacle is the distance from my family who all live in Perth, Australia. Also, I speak and read Thai - at a low level but improving. If I was from the States I would most likely go for Panama. They are certainly easier to deal with regarding visas etc. You can own property. Cost seems to be pretty similar to the cheaper parts of Thailand if you don't want to live in a swanky condo in Panama City.. I get the feeling that the health industry is better in Thailand but my pal, who has some pretty serious health issues is insured, so he flies back to the States for major surgery. When I visited Panama City the humidity and temperature was more like BKK. But I believe it is way cooler up the mountain area. Panama is full of USA retirees but actually some, indeed all the yanks I have met are really nice people - even the ones in CM!

[mesquite]

Exactly what I was thinking...

And it's safe now that Pablo is dead :-)

I hope this isn't too annoyingly off topic, but have considered Medellin, Colombia? It's becoming quite the popular expat destination and the WEATHER is much more pleasant than Bangkok and especially Panama City.

The Poblado area of Medellein is quite pretty and good value. The murders are a major drawback, though.

Edited December 23, 2015 by mesquite

[pluto_manibo]

Costa Rica doesn't look half bad to me. People change and places change, you must be able to adapt accordingly. Great surf, coastal towns, nature, wildlife, Carribean coast, Pacific coast, mountains, small population(4.8 million), no military, decent health care, easy immigration, ownership laws. Nowhere is perfect. If in South Eastern Asia, Thailand is still number 1.

[fey]

These south/Central American countries are not as friendly as a rule. People are nasty and dont like strangers.

Thailand, and around se asia is very unique in welcoming attitudes. Most long term south/central expatriates will be in cloistered areas or gated communities with other foreigners and locals and foreigners rarely mix socially unless in a service situation.

Rio, Puerto Vallarta and other resort cities are exceptions, but more expensive. Not sure why the op is specifically interested in panama, its a small country and would just take a tour around if i was looking to settle in that vicinity.

[sledpull]

Scheduled 4 property chill weekends in Panama, Ecuador, Costa Rica and Belize from USA. Made it to Panama and Ecuador. Flight challenges out of Atlanta and Nashville resulted in not seeing CR or Belize. Now have been living in Hua Hin area since 2013. I was going to go to Boquete, Panama for 30 days in September/15 but changed my mind when I saw the issues people were having there with crime. Boquete is beautiful with ideal temps year round. But recently there have been home invasions, burglaries, robberies according to commenters on expat forum. So much so neighborhood watches have been formed. Based upon what I read there I canceled my trip to determine if I wanted to live there versus Hua Hin. I have committed to Thailand.