The Carrot And The Stick - Permanent Residence

[lukamar]

This came across my desk yesterday, it's not new news or even surprising to most of us but it got me thinking.

Out of all the applications for Permanent Residence in 2005, Thailand has accepted a whopping 115.

To put that into perspective. Canada, my home country, issued Permanent residence to 255,000 newcomers in 2006 so far. A country with 1/2 the population of Thailand. Of those 255,000, 55,200 were from Asia.

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/2noti...mit300806EN.pdf

OR

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/ba...=321§ion=notice

[desmond]

I just cannot understand why they are so 'stingy'

[grtaylor]

Of all the people I know, and in all my time here, I have never met anyone who has been denied Permanent Residency - so maybe thats all that applied. After all, they only open for applications one week of the year . . . .

I just cannot understand why they are so 'stingy'

[samran]

Of all the people I know, and in all my time here, I have never met anyone who has been denied Permanent Residency - so maybe thats all that applied. After all, they only open for applications one week of the year . . . .

I just cannot understand why they are so 'stingy'

I simply don't think that many people both to apply either. I think that there are many many people actually qualified, but just never get around to it, or are put off by a long process which in reality isn't too hard if you take the time to sit down and look at what is needed. There is also somewhat of a myth that you have to speak, read and write Thai to a fluent level, which is simply not true. I mean, in the reading test, if you can't read, they'll read out the questions for you!

[Maizefarmer]

There is no comparison between the number of peoplel who aplly to reside in Canada and other Westernised countries, and Thailand. The main differance is alot of the people who aply to stay in those countries have turned up at the border post, bag in hand with no-where else to go.

The reasons and motives are not comparable.

I dont think its a case of been stingy, the requirements for Thailand are simply a lot different - no-one turns up here to apply for refugee status, and if they do, they are usualy here under UN refugee status (as most are) and enroute to a European country or the USA.

Tim

[roytheboy]

There is no comparison between the number of peoplel who aplly to reside in Canada and other Westernised countries, and Thailand. The main differance is alot of the people who aply to stay in those countries have turned up at the border post, bag in hand with no-where else to go.

The reasons and motives are not comparable.

I dont think its a case of been stingy, the requirements for Thailand are simply a lot different - no-one turns up here to apply for refugee status, and if they do, they are usualy here under UN refugee status (as most are) and enroute to a European country or the USA.

Tim

I quite admire Thais for keeping to a limit immigration, foriegn ownership of land/property etc, lets face it if it was easy Yank's in particular would simply "buy it up" I sincerely wish the UK adopted the same policy !

[Maizefarmer]

Youre quite right - comparatively speaking the Thai Baht and the comparative value of land based assets would allow foreigners to buy up whatever they wanted to and and price Thai citizens out of the running.

Tim

[Buckwheat]

There is no comparison between the number of peoplel who aplly to reside in Canada and other Westernised countries, and Thailand. The main differance is alot of the people who aply to stay in those countries have turned up at the border post, bag in hand with no-where else to go.

The reasons and motives are not comparable.

I dont think its a case of been stingy, the requirements for Thailand are simply a lot different - no-one turns up here to apply for refugee status, and if they do, they are usualy here under UN refugee status (as most are) and enroute to a European country or the USA.

Tim

I quite admire Thais for keeping to a limit immigration, foriegn ownership of land/property etc, lets face it if it was easy Yank's in particular would simply "buy it up" I sincerely wish the UK adopted the same policy !

Yeah, those rotten yanks.

I suppose all the limeys are spending all their money on soap and toothpaste.

[roytheboy]

There is no comparison between the number of peoplel who aplly to reside in Canada and other Westernised countries, and Thailand. The main differance is alot of the people who aply to stay in those countries have turned up at the border post, bag in hand with no-where else to go.

The reasons and motives are not comparable.

I dont think its a case of been stingy, the requirements for Thailand are simply a lot different - no-one turns up here to apply for refugee status, and if they do, they are usualy here under UN refugee status (as most are) and enroute to a European country or the USA.

Tim

I quite admire Thais for keeping to a limit immigration, foriegn ownership of land/property etc, lets face it if it was easy Yank's in particular would simply "buy it up" I sincerely wish the UK adopted the same policy !

Yeah, those rotten yanks.

I suppose all the limeys are spending all their money on soap and toothpaste.

Yeah boss your right, I have a bath once a month wether I need it or not, and I clean my teeth when the green mould builds up ! Yank's are the biggest problem people in the world, if they cant bomb peoples or counties into submisson the do it through trade ! no wonder most of the world hates ya !

And further more I would not go to your country if you paid the ticket and gave me £5000 spending money ! we have your stupid in culture here now !

What else do ya wanna no ????????? limey here !

Edited October 13, 2006 by roytheboy

[sbk]

Yeah boss your right, I have a bath once a month wether I need it or not, and I clean my teeth when the green mould builds up ! Yank's are the biggest problem people in the world, if they cant bomb peoples or counties into submisson the do it through trade ! no wonder most of the world hates ya !

And further more I would not go to your country if you paid the ticket and gave me £5000 spending money ! we have your stupid in culture here now !

What else do ya wanna no ????????? limey here !

Seems like an emphasis on spelling is lacking in the UK from the looks of this post. Next time you want to accuse a country of stupidity you should learn how to spell it first

[roytheboy]

There is no comparison between the number of peoplel who aplly to reside in Canada and other Westernised countries, and Thailand. The main differance is alot of the people who aply to stay in those countries have turned up at the border post, bag in hand with no-where else to go.

The reasons and motives are not comparable.

I dont think its a case of been stingy, the requirements for Thailand are simply a lot different - no-one turns up here to apply for refugee status, and if they do, they are usualy here under UN refugee status (as most are) and enroute to a European country or the USA.

Tim

I quite admire Thais for keeping to a limit immigration, foriegn ownership of land/property etc, lets face it if it was easy Yank's in particular would simply "buy it up" I sincerely wish the UK adopted the same policy !

Yeah, those rotten yanks.

I suppose all the limeys are spending all their money on soap and toothpaste.

Yeah boss your right, I have a bath once a month wether I need it or not, and I clean my teeth when the green mould builds up ! Yank's are the biggest problem people in the world, if they cant bomb peoples or counties into submisson the do it through trade ! no wonder most of the world hates ya !

And further more I would not go to your country if you paid the ticket and gave me £5000 spending money ! we have your stupid in culture here now !

What else do ya wanna no ????????? limey here !

But thank you for saving our asses in the second world war !!!!

[sbk]

ANYWAY, the topic at hand is PR etc.

I thought about applying for PR but the 95,000 baht fee for application put me off. I was foolish and didn't apply 10 years ago when it was 20,000 baht.

[roytheboy]

Yeah your right, might not be good at the speeling, but I gareentee I caN OUTDO YOU IN ALLMOST EVERYTHING ELSE you could think of, post pulling is an art form on here !"

[Tywais]

Yeah your right, might not be good at the speeling, but I gareentee I caN OUTDO YOU IN ALLMOST EVERYTHING ELSE you could think of, post pulling is an art form on here !"

Stay on topic and stop the yank bashing or there will be more then post pulling happening.

[roytheboy]

Yeah your right, might not be good at the speeling, but I gareentee I caN OUTDO YOU IN ALLMOST EVERYTHING ELSE you could think of, post pulling is an art form on here !"

And by the way, apologies to anyone I may offend ! READ MY FIRST POST, on this subject, someone responed with sarcasim, I responded in kind !

And further more as to my spelling, my secretary will be in at 9.am in the morning, I will get her to sit on my lap, and I will Dick tate to her, I am sure she will have a good laugh, as I do to the stupid reply on this Forum, .have fun, i allways do !

[sbk]

roytheboy, look under my name and tywais name. We are both moderators attempting to get this thread back to the topic at hand. You are obstructing and if you continue will find your posts deleted and your good self warned.

Lets all behave like adults here and try to address the topic at hand, shall we?

[lukamar]

Maybe someone like Sunbelt knows the total number of applications that were submitted for 2005. That would give a better idea of where we stand. You would have to argue long and hard to convince me that only one Canadian applied for PR in 2005.

[camerata]

I simply don't think that many people both to apply either. I think that there are many many people actually qualified, but just never get around to it, or are put off by a long process which in reality isn't too hard if you take the time to sit down and look at what is needed.

Yes. I was qualified after 3 years in my current job (and it would have cost me 50K baht then) but I waited another 6 years for various reasons, and it cost me 200K.

The first time I went for a visa extension after applying for PR the officer went through a list of foreign names carefully before stamping my passport. There were 200-300 names on the list and maybe 10% had a line through the name. I assume those were rejected applications. During the whole process, even the "busy" periods around application and interview time, I saw very few other applicants. There just aren't that many applying.

As for comparisons with countries like Canada, Thailand has never been an immigrant country with a policy to encourage immigration, mainly because it has been a poor and developing nation. Most Western nations actually encourage immigration for economic or political reasons whereas Thailand has only recently, and rather reluctantly, admitted that it needs cheap Burmese labour to for the construction industry jobs that Thais don't want.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Of all the people I know, and in all my time here, I have never met anyone who has been denied Permanent Residency - so maybe thats all that applied. After all, they only open for applications one week of the year . . . .

I just cannot understand why they are so 'stingy'

Well, GTTaylor, guess you never met me.

I applied for a Residence permit in 2002, after having been on the one-year Non-O extension since 1998, and the 90-day shuffle since 1991. Married to a Thai gal since 1999 (altho we "practiced" eight years prior), she owns the house, etc, I own the pickup truck. Had all the required documents.

I did NOT receive a Residence Permit, don't know why. Was I perhaps #101 of the 100 Americans approved that year? Believe there's a maximum of 100 per nationality per year, altho the number could, I guess, be less than that.

Now the cost has gone way up so I'll probably not apply again, unless I win the lottery.

Mac

[Cool Water Palace]

hi guys

i have researched this permanent residence thingy and in theory I will be elligible to appy in decemebr 2007

i can satisfy all the stated criteria (even the 97k baht reluctantly), but you also have to take a thai language proficiency test, both reading writing and oral

i have some verbal fluency in market lao (which is all most of us have to go on in the general walk of life) but would balk at the idea of conversing with an educated thai

anyone know anything about this?

[robint]

JESUS

somehow i got logged into COOL WATER PALACE'S account, dont know how that happened. apolgies tendered

here's my comment under my own handle

hi guys

i have researched this permanent residence thingy and in theory I will be elligible to appy in decemebr 2007

i can satisfy all the stated criteria (even the 97k baht reluctantly), but you also have to take a thai language proficiency test, both reading writing and oral

i have some verbal fluency in market lao (which is all most of us have to go on in the general walk of life) but would balk at the idea of conversing with an educated thai

anyone know anything about this?

[Tywais]

JESUS

somehow i got logged into COOL WATER PALACE'S account, dont know how that happened. apolgies tendered

Are you using an Internet cafe or a shared computer? We need to find out how you managed to do that and try to repair it. Seems you both are using the same IP address.

[smartecosse]

maybe he likes talking to himself??

[samran]

Maybe someone like Sunbelt knows the total number of applications that were submitted for 2005. That would give a better idea of where we stand. You would have to argue long and hard to convince me that only one Canadian applied for PR in 2005.

I can't understand why you think that is so hard to believe. The way people speak about PR here, you'd get the impression that you've joined some secret association where the rules for joining are enshrined in secrecy.

Having said that however, the thai government doesn't actively advertise it, but it reflect the general fact that the policy here isn't geared up towards mass immigration, unlike say Canada and Australia where embassies and consulates actively promote migration.

That's why threads like this one are very important, and I do suspect that based on the information provided here, immigration will be innundated with applicants who have discovered that mere mortals are eligible to apply, and be accepted through a process which is totally above board.

[Maizefarmer]

hi guys

i have researched this permanent residence thingy and in theory I will be elligible to appy in decemebr 2007

i can satisfy all the stated criteria (even the 97k baht reluctantly), but you also have to take a thai language proficiency test, both reading writing and oral

i have some verbal fluency in market lao (which is all most of us have to go on in the general walk of life) but would balk at the idea of conversing with an educated thai

anyone know anything about this?

Some contributors say, "nay - dont worry - its not a big deal" - well let me tell you it can be a big deal and from you have written (i.e. that you qualify in Dec 2007 - suggesting that your min waiting time will be completed) it will be a big deal.

Its a scoring process and although some guys make up for a weak score in other others like having been here a long long time, or having a high profile job with big responsibility and bucks, and others have a lot invested in their businesses/projects - if you are applying as soon as you can from a time limit point of view you are going to be up against a lot of other applicants - and language skill amongst that group of applicants is going to be a big plus point for those who score well with it.

If I was you, I would put it on hold for a year or 2 and take some intensive Thai learning courses (reading and writing). PR aside you will not regret been able to read write the language as well as been able to speak fluently - it goes a long way towards intergrating in Thai society which is what PR has to be about.

Tim

(yes I am a PR and I made a big effort 20 years ago when I first came here to learn to read and write the language - daunting at first but will never forget the day I could read the front page of a newpaper and understand word for word what was written - big sense of achievement)

[robint]

JESUS

somehow i got logged into COOL WATER PALACE'S account, dont know how that happened. apolgies tendered

Are you using an Internet cafe or a shared computer? We need to find out how you managed to do that and try to repair it. Seems you both are using the same IP address.

yeah using inet cafe on sukhumvit

i guess the login is stored as a cookie

this has never happened before however

[Tywais]

Are you using an Internet cafe or a shared computer? We need to find out how you managed to do that and try to repair it. Seems you both are using the same IP address.

yeah using inet cafe on sukhumvit

i guess the login is stored as a cookie

this has never happened before however

You should clear all cookies in the browser before you connect to TV and after you logout. Should keep it from happening again.

[robint]

hi guys

i have researched this permanent residence thingy and in theory I will be elligible to appy in decemebr 2007

i can satisfy all the stated criteria (even the 97k baht reluctantly), but you also have to take a thai language proficiency test, both reading writing and oral

i have some verbal fluency in market lao (which is all most of us have to go on in the general walk of life) but would balk at the idea of conversing with an educated thai

anyone know anything about this?

Some contributors say, "nay - dont worry - its not a big deal" - well let me tell you it can be a big deal and from you have written (i.e. that you qualify in Dec 2007 - suggesting that your min waiting time will be completed) it will be a big deal.

Its a scoring process and although some guys make up for a weak score in other others like having been here a long long time, or having a high profile job with big responsibility and bucks, and others have a lot invested in their businesses/projects - if you are applying as soon as you can from a time limit point of view you are going to be up against a lot of other applicants - and language skill amongst that group of applicants is going to be a big plus point for those who score well with it.

If I was you, I would put it on hold for a year or 2 and take some intensive Thai learning courses (reading and writing). PR aside you will not regret been able to read write the language as well as been able to speak fluently - it goes a long way towards intergrating in Thai society which is what PR has to be about.

Tim

(yes I am a PR and I made a big effort 20 years ago when I first came here to learn to read and write the language - daunting at first but will never forget the day I could read the front page of a newpaper and understand word for word what was written - big sense of achievement)

hi mf

I have a number of us buddies who have PRs but they got theirs years ago when things were very much different and more benign (and you could get a 5 str general to endorse you)

I have a fluency in the language sufficient for my needs but its a long way from educated thai. I can read slowly but not at newspaper level. Its going to be a struggle as im not so good these days, bit long in the tooth, and i also rather object to the monkey language anyway. the way the average people speak is utterly crass. I know enough to know that.

Cambodia is begining to look more and more attractive. I really dont want to be frigged around with by a poe faced harridan whose station in life is so far below mine (and as with most educated flangs). If they dont want us here then lets have it in the open and expose it for what it really is FRAUD

come here buy a condo spend your money but dont think you can stay here.

I have noticed on this thread that some of the posts border on being smug and sanctimonious. I know of several worthwhile cases where real hardship may result, ie these guys have sold up everything expected to pass away their golden years respectably, playing gold in the sun. Its pretty callous really and demonstrates what i have maintaned all along, namely a deep seated underlying hatred and jealousy of flangs

the gloves are off

[lukamar]

Robint - Malaysia and Vietnam are both actively seeking retirees and tourists at the moment. Malaysia's My Second Home program is really well thought out and offers a bunch of perks as well.

Getting back on track. I'd still like to know what the ratio of applications to acceptance is. It would make it a lot easier for people to know their chances of passing and would allow them to make an informed choice about applying for PR.

Applying to Canada is not an easy task either and I'm sure the failure rate, without a decent sponsor, is very high.

Like Thailand being married to a Canadian does not necessarily get you permanent residence but some important things are waived to make it the easiest Canadian PR to get. IE:- on my Canadian Tax return, the year I applied for my wife, I had a huge capital loss and my Income was in the negative multiple thousands, not one word was ever said about that.

[danone]

Youre quite right - comparatively speaking the Thai Baht and the comparative value of land based assets would allow foreigners to buy up whatever they wanted to and and price Thai citizens out of the running.

Tim

why doesn't this myth just die?

there are tons of stinkingly rich thai people hre with more money than average rich foreigners could dream of.

just some of these cars being driven here: with all the taxes added up money must be a non-issue for some of the cash-elite here.

by keeping the foreigners out they just secure themselves absolute leverage, whereas they all boast about their villas in london and so on. and keeping the foreigners out keeps the prices even lower for themselves! a successful catch 22.

regarding PR: true, the process is tiresome, but completly predictable. you see right from the start if you make the cut or not. no magic behind it, no corrupt process, no nothing.