webfact Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Australia looms large in latest National Rifle Association manifestoNick O'MalleyUS correspondent for Fairfax Media- Clinton's wish for Australian-style gun laws- Obama says US gun laws must be changedWashington: As Democratic candidates make gun control part of the presidential campaign debate, the National Rifle Association has published an entire issue of its political journal, America's First Freedom, based largely on warning its readers of the threat of Australian-style gun laws.The most recent issue of the 64-page magazine has seven articles either based on Australian gun laws or referencing them.Several of them appear alongside calls for donations to contribute to the NRA's lobbying against such laws. Collectively the pieces argue Australians are less safe due to tough gun laws and that the Democratic presidential frontrunner, Hillary Clinton, plans to introduce laws based on those in Australia for the registration and licensing of guns, and eventually the confiscation of some types of guns.Full story: http://www.theage.com.au/world/australia-looms-large-in-latest-national-rifle-association-manifesto-20151221-glsxqq -- The Age 2015-12-22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 In an endeavour to stop this topic immediately descending into ill-informed commentary have a read of Australian gun laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Australia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noosard Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Collectively the pieces argue Australians are less safe due to tough gun laws That is just a rubbish statement Over the past 18 years (1 July 1989 to 30 June 2007), the rate* of homicide incidents decreased from 1.9 in 1990-91 and 1992-93 to the second-lowest recorded rate, of 1.3, in 2006-07. *rate per 100,000 population. (Australia) That is all homicides, not just firearms The percentage of homicides committed with a firearm continued a declining trend which began in 1969. In 2003, fewer than 16% of homicides involved firearms. The figure was similar in 2002 and 2001, down from a high of 44% in 1968.https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjN_Me43u7JAhVVjo4KHaCZAvgQFggkMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aic.gov.au%2Fstatistics%2Fhomicide.html&usg=AFQjCNEVUTeK1CaVdqrgFja5eFG0-Tzwvw&sig2=4tQp6QxBCGnVRfNjr9ugEw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMGImInPattaya Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 In an endeavour to stop this topic immediately descending into ill-informed commentary have a read of Australian gun laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Australia I don't give a rat's turd about Australia's gun laws...if that's what they want that's fine. Americans will adopt gun laws in line with American law, cultural traditions, and historical experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up2u2 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Australia have very sensible gun laws. An excellent model to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Australia have very sensible gun laws. An excellent model to follow. Presumably they are fine for Australia. That doesn't mean other countries who have different traditions, cultures and constitutional rights should follow them or use them as a model. Maybe Australia should follow the American model; or the Swiss model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BookMan Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Australia have very sensible gun laws. An excellent model to follow. Presumably they are fine for Australia. That doesn't mean other countries who have different traditions, cultures and constitutional rights should follow them or use them as a model. Maybe Australia should follow the American model; or the Swiss model? It's often better to be a leader than a follower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALLSEEINGEYE Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 oh and national healthcare in the USA will lead to Canadian style death squads for senior citizens. Keep fear alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM07 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) In an endeavour to stop this topic immediately descending into ill-informed commentary have a read of Australian gun laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Australia I don't give a rat's turd about Australia's gun laws...if that's what they want that's fine. Americans will adopt gun laws in line with American law, cultural traditions, and historical experience. Would that be the cultural tradition to shoot everything that goes "bump" in the night or the historical experience of 355 mass shootings in one year? Edited December 22, 2015 by DM07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) In an endeavour to stop this topic immediately descending into ill-informed commentary have a read of Australian gun laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Australia I don't give a rat's turd about Australia's gun laws...if that's what they want that's fine. Americans will adopt gun laws in line with American law, cultural traditions, and historical experience. Wasn't suggesting you should care about Oz gun laws, just an opportunity to review the reality of the Oz legislation. Out of curiously after reading the link what do you specifically object to in the US context? Edited December 22, 2015 by simple1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfx Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 As most Aussies know, the tough new Aussie gun laws came about after the Port Arthur massacre back in 1996 where 35 people were killed by a lone gunman. The Australian Prime Minister at the time, John Howard, took a tough stance basically without little consultation and drastically changed Australian gun laws without too much complaining from the general public. That was Australia's wake up call. Prior to that, different Australian states had different laws with regards to firearms. I was in the Police in the Northern Territory, and surprisingly they had the toughest laws prior to this massacre. Queensland probably had the most casual laws where anything went as was witnessed by the number of M16s etc I confiscated and had to mail back to Qld from visiting hunters to the NT. But having said that, if you are a genuine hunter in Oz or a member of a gun club (rifle, pistol or clay), you still have access to the required firearms but you just have to jump through a few more hoops to get access to them. Basically there is no restrictions (other than ridiculous military style weapons) as long as you comply with the laws. You won't be permitted to have your 40 cal Glock under your pillow, but it may be locked in a double locked safe area within your house for example. At the end of the day, crooks will still get their grubby hands on firearms no matter what the current laws of the land are. To state that Australians are less safe as a result of these laws is an absolutely ridiculous statement. But the Australian model may not be for the US, but they can certainly look at it and modify it to suit their needs. I probably feel more concerned regarding firearms here in Thailand than either the US or my home country. As an outsider, I can see that the US seems to have a gun problem that does need addressing, but that is up to US citizens and their government to sort out. The NRA does seem to be a powerful voice there, so good luck with all of this. No doubt we'll read about another mass shooting somewhere in the US in the not too distant future and this argument will continue.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Oh this will be another of those threads, where the europoids, aussies and kiwies will rise and spout their nonsence. Osamba Obama bin Lauden can prostrate all he wants. It will never clear the House/Senate. It also infers Billary Clinton will persue this. Watch her numbers fall. So this AM I sent 5K USD to the NRA. This is above my annual donation of 2K USD. I would have been tempted to spend it finishing your education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farcanell Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 As an Australian, I fully support the Australian gun laws, and relinquished a shotgun and a ruger 10/22 But... That's Australia, were citizens never really had a need for large amounts of guns, so they didn't have them, in the main America is a far different propersition, and they will need decades to implement Australian type laws, if ever... Probably never, and should be left to their own devices and political system machinations to sort out the problem, as it's their problem From what I know, most gun owners are very responsible about it, but with a larger population and ease of access to firearms, there are a lot more armed bad guys, so citizens need self protection My only issue, which is more a curiosity, is that the Americans I talk to, tell me all about how many guns they have, which seems very excessive... I can't see why someone needs a half dozen hand guns and some semi automatic rifles. The best answer I have received is that comparitively, I have had several different types of fishing tackle, for the many different styles of fishing... And so hunters have different rifles for different game I agree with the saying that people kill people... But I also believe that guns do make it easier. Now knives....Knives are more personal, and easier to defend against... You gotta be brave and get up close and personal... Man to man... Hope this isn't viewed as rising up and and spouting nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironbark Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Americans of course can have the laws they want (and probably deserve) but they are not entitled to distort and misrepresent Australian laws. Australian gun laws are effective and popular with legal gun owners and the non gun owning public alike. They have managed to reduce gun related crime, not just killings and anyone who wants or needs a gun for legitimate purposes can obtain one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seastallion Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 " introduce laws based on those in Australia for the registration and licensing of guns" Someone please explain to me how registering and licensing contravenes the 2nd Amendment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargeezr Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I doubt that we will ever see the American get tougher gun laws, as the idea of some people is that the country may be invaded, and of course they have to all be armed. The USA people have a different attitude than say Australians, or my country Canada. I have a few friends and even relatives, that I am very glad that they can only get a rifle or shotgun, as they are such hot heads, I would worry if they packed a pistol anywhere at any time. Heck I am even worried that they have a rifle and shotgun. I even see on this forum, just who are American expats and who are not. It is that obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMGImInPattaya Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 In an endeavour to stop this topic immediately descending into ill-informed commentary have a read of Australian gun laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Australia I don't give a rat's turd about Australia's gun laws...if that's what they want that's fine. Americans will adopt gun laws in line with American law, cultural traditions, and historical experience. Would that be the cultural tradition to shoot everything that goes "bump" in the night or the historical experience of 355 mass shootings in one year? It's the historical experience of settling a frontier, a cultural experience of fathers teaching their sons to hunt, and finally saving gun-fearing countries like Oz from an imminent Japanese invasion and rescuing a gun-hating continent like Europe from the clutches of Adolf Hitler and the Nazis. And your figure for "mass shootings" is so bogus...what's it down to now...two or more injured or killed is now a "mass" shooting; and the majority of these so called mass shootings are drunken bar brawls wherein people get injured or killed by a gun. These are hardly the type of incidents most people associate as a "mass shooting" event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMGImInPattaya Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 In an endeavour to stop this topic immediately descending into ill-informed commentary have a read of Australian gun laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Australia I don't give a rat's turd about Australia's gun laws...if that's what they want that's fine. Americans will adopt gun laws in line with American law, cultural traditions, and historical experience. Wasn't suggesting you should care about Oz gun laws, just an opportunity to review the reality of the Oz legislation. Out of curiously after reading the link what do you specifically object to in the US context? So why post the link? And no I wouldn't waste my time reading up on Australia's guns laws because I'm not interested in them and I think America's are fine as is. (Well, actually they're far too strict in many places and I support efforts to roll-back allot of these unconstitutional laws.) As I said, Australians are free to govern and make laws on how they want to live. I don't have any problem with that. I just wish people would also give Americans and our laws and constitution the same respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farcanell Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) One can only hope everyone in the US over the age of 16 is allowed and does carry guns. Then everyone will be safe. They should be rented out to tourists as well as they land at airports and border crossings as. Just like SIM cards are for sale at airports here in Asia. Then the death rate for guns would drop to zero.With everyone knowing that everyone is carrying guns everyone will be safe. That is the way I see it anyway. Lmao... Fifteen or more years ago, a group of us, ( all foreigners) were driving the highways and byways of the USA, in an old caddy. We were pulled up by a highway patrol cop, (probably because of the amount of long hair in the car), just outside bakersville The cop was very insistent about seeing our guns, and it took a lot to convince him that we did not have any guns His parting words, as we continued on our way, was to the effect that there was a gun store ten mile down the road and that we best get our butts in there and tool up Edited December 22, 2015 by farcanell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Christmas13 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 In an endeavour to stop this topic immediately descending into ill-informed commentary have a read of Australian gun laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Australia I don't give a rat's turd about Australia's gun laws...if that's what they want that's fine. Americans will adopt gun laws in line with American law, cultural traditions, and historical experience. Yeah right , Australia 1.06 per 100.000 deaths by gun related homicides USA 10.64 it's working very well for the USA isn't it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinot Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Oh this will be another of those threads, where the europoids, aussies and kiwies will rise and spout their nonsence. Osamba Obama bin Lauden can prostrate all he wants. It will never clear the House/Senate. It also infers Billary Clinton will persue this. Watch her numbers fall. So this AM I sent 5K USD to the NRA. This is above my annual donation of 2K USD. I would have been tempted to spend it finishing your education. Chi - that's really mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bench499d Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Seems to me that there is a proportion of the US population who care more about their ancient constitutional rights than the lives of their friends and family. Seems to me that any American who takes the same stance as the NRA, or worse donates money to it, has his head stuck firmly in the sand. Your country has a serious problem which needs to be solved, wake up! But I'm just a Brit so what do I know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckd Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) In an endeavour to stop this topic immediately descending into ill-informed commentary have a read of Australian gun laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Australia I don't give a rat's turd about Australia's gun laws...if that's what they want that's fine. Americans will adopt gun laws in line with American law, cultural traditions, and historical experience. Yeah right , Australia 1.06 per 100.000 deaths by gun related homicides USA 10.64 it's working very well for the USA isn't it Yeah, wrong. Your source (Wikipedia?) provides basically the same figures but gives the following explanation: "This is a historical list of countries by firearm-related death rate per 100,000 population in one year. It should be noted that the following list includes suicides, accidental fatalities, and justifiable homicides." The published figures for homicides alone are... Australia - 0.18 per 100 000 U. S. A.. - 3.55 per 100,000 It's working a little bit better for both of us when the correct figures are posted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate Edited December 22, 2015 by chuckd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 A number of off-topic, inflammatory and troll posts have been removed. Do NOT paint all members of a nationality with the same brush. It is against the forum rules. That goes for both Americans and Australians (and any other group you might get into the mix). This is the rule: 11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostboy Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 In an endeavour to stop this topic immediately descending into ill-informed commentary have a read of Australian gun laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Australia I don't give a rat's turd about Australia's gun laws...if that's what they want that's fine. Americans will adopt gun laws in line with American law, cultural traditions, and historical experience. Would that be the cultural tradition to shoot everything that goes "bump" in the night or the historical experience of 355 mass shootings in one year? It's the historical experience of settling a frontier, a cultural experience of fathers teaching their sons to hunt, and finally saving gun-fearing countries like Oz from an imminent Japanese invasion and rescuing a gun-hating continent like Europe from the clutches of Adolf Hitler and the Nazis. And your figure for "mass shootings" is so bogus...what's it down to now...two or more injured or killed is now a "mass" shooting; and the majority of these so called mass shootings are drunken bar brawls wherein people get injured or killed by a gun. These are hardly the type of incidents most people associate as a "mass shooting" event. What Japanese invasion of Australia? Got some Japanese Imperial documents that no-one else has ever seen? The phrase generally used for those who fought in WWII is the 'greatest generation'. You stand on their shoulders. Don't mistake this for being better then them. They would be disgusted at the use of their sacrifice and their bonds with fellow soldiers of dozens of different countries, different races and different religions to score cheap political points in a grubby argument about guns. This includes members of my own family. Are you lost in your frontier culture? When was the last time there was a frontier in America? Not since the last indigenous American was slaughtered and the rest imprisoned on reservations in the 19th C. Or do you mean West of the Appalachians in the colonial times when Daniel Boone was scurrying around in his beaver hat. Time to put away childish things on this issue. The Eastern seaboard of the United States hasn't seen a frontier since before the Louisiana Purchase. Americans no longer need to carry guns to kill Indians. That period of history is over, even thought the disgrace remains. The gun nuts really live in fantasy land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connda Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Note to self: Contribute to NRA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostboy Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 In an endeavour to stop this topic immediately descending into ill-informed commentary have a read of Australian gun laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Australia I don't give a rat's turd about Australia's gun laws...if that's what they want that's fine. Americans will adopt gun laws in line with American law, cultural traditions, and historical experience. Wasn't suggesting you should care about Oz gun laws, just an opportunity to review the reality of the Oz legislation. Out of curiously after reading the link what do you specifically object to in the US context? So why post the link? And no I wouldn't waste my time reading up on Australia's guns laws because I'm not interested in them and I think America's are fine as is. (Well, actually they're far too strict in many places and I support efforts to roll-back allot of these unconstitutional laws.) As I said, Australians are free to govern and make laws on how they want to live. I don't have any problem with that. I just wish people would also give Americans and our laws and constitution the same respect. It was troll bait. And it worked. Simple1 merely posted information so that people have the chance to learn facts. Why is this a problem? The next President of the United States has said that she is looking at Australia's laws on registration and control of guns. Would it not make sense to know what you are talking about when you start saying how wrong you think this idea is? It really makes subsequent comments on the constitutionality of existing American gun control laws descend from the sublime to the ridiculous. A true NRA poster boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Off-topic posts removed. WWII is definitely off-topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard W Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Seems to me that there is a proportion of the US population who care more about their ancient constitutional rights than the lives of their friends and family. Seems to me that any American who takes the same stance as the NRA, or worse donates money to it, has his head stuck firmly in the sand. Are you saying that the right to bear arms isn't to make it easier to overthrow tyranny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonmarleesco Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 '... the pieces argue Australians are less safe ...' Presumably, they have 'evidence' to support that dubious claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.png.3b3332cc2256ad0edbc2fe9404feeef0.png)
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now