US blocks UK Muslim family from boarding plane to Disneyland

[SgtRock]

Ricardo, on 24 Dec 2015 - 15:34, said:

Usernames, on 24 Dec 2015 - 10:54, said:

Ricardo, on 24 Dec 2015 - 10:28, said:

Usernames, on 24 Dec 2015 - 09:23, said:

It's none of Cameron's or anybody else's business who the United States denies entry to.

Absolutely, I mean why should Cameron give a damn, about the rights of British citizens abroad !

No UK citizen or anyone else in the world has "the right" to enter the US.

And I didn't say that they did, funnily enough many of us Brits feel the same, about 'The Donald', which will be interesting if he does get elected as POTUS.

But it does seem unusual that, having gone through all the usual pre-travel vetting by the USA, they then pulled the whole family at the late stage of boarding, when they had checked-in without a problem ? Especially with children going to Disneyland at Christmas-time !

No doubt further information will emerge, to explain why this happened.

I would like to think that a family holiday, that consisted of

2 x Adult males.

9 x Male children

Would raise a red flag anywhere in the world. Regardless of what religion they happened to be.

It is also better to stop them boarding than to be refused entry after a 9 hour flight and be sent straight back.

[MaeJoMTB]

I don't want any religious zealots on a plane with me.

Don't care what religion they are.

(I'm assuming this lot were in full fancy dress)

But,

2 adult men and 9 children is not my idea of a 'family group'.

Did they have permission from the mothers to travel?

Did it seem they were intending to permanently stay in America?

Edited December 24, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[Scott]

Some years back, I was told by an airline official that the flight manifest was sent when the plane was enroute to the US. At some point, it changed and it was decided that the flight manifest had to be sent before the plane departed. This caused a bit of a dust-up with some as it was a major inconvenience.

So, if they had a clearance from an earlier date and a review showed anything that would question that clearance, then they would be pulled off the flight after checking in.

We may have some airline employees who can shed more light on how these procedures work.

[buji]

It's none of Cameron's or anybody else's business who the United States denies entry to.

Absolutely, I mean why should Cameron give a damn, about the rights of British citizens abroad !

No UK citizen or anyone else in the world has "the right" to enter the US.

And I didn't say that they did, funnily enough many of us Brits feel the same, about 'The Donald', which will be interesting if he does get elected as POTUS.

But it does seem unusual that, having gone through all the usual pre-travel vetting by the USA, they then pulled the whole family at the late stage of boarding, when they had checked-in without a problem ? Especially with children going to Disneyland at Christmas-time !

No doubt further information will emerge, to explain why this happened.

Bring another question, why was "Disneyland" even interjected. Why throw a 'media' centerpiece into the story. They were either flying to California or Florida & taking a long time before flagging, well duh, a large Muslim group probably as much as not trying to be notice, were due to same reasons. Also doesn't matter if from the UK, sleeper cells are everywhere & have a habit of hiding behind children.

[OMGImInPattaya]

I doubt many countries will want to get in a diplomatic tit-for-tat with the United States. We say jump and you countries ask how high...like with this whole esta visa waiver program itself. All you citizens of countries in the program have to get an electronic clearance before flying to the United States, while me and my US passport can just waltze into all your countries at my leisure (the only exception I'm aware is Australia).

Yeah.... you don't get out much, do you?

Here's the list

http://cibtvisas.com/visa-quick-check

Admittedly, there's a few there I wouldn't want to travel to anyway.

Not sure what point you're trying to make...I said of the countries in the US visa waiver program, their citizens still have to get an electronic authorization to enter the US whereas I don't have to for their's (with the exception of Australia, and maybe a couple others like Chile and Brunei). If you read my post again, it should be clear I wasn't referring to all the countries in the world. https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1550/~/visa-waiver-program-(vwp)-countries

The point being other countries give the US a wide-birth...in response to some poster saying their government should investigate why some families are being denied entry to the United States.

[OMGImInPattaya]

I doubt many countries will want to get in a diplomatic tit-for-tat with the United States. We say jump and you countries ask how high...like with this whole esta visa waiver program itself. All you citizens of countries in the program have to get an electronic clearance before flying to the United States, while me and my US passport can just waltze into all your countries at my leisure (the only exception I'm aware is Australia).

Isn't hubris wonderful. UK passport holders, in conjunction with Germany, are ranked first worldwide in the number of countries permitting visa-free or visa on arrival entry

Of course, if you re-read my post or my response above, you will see that wasn't the point I was making...but you got in your USA-bashing for the day so I'm sure you feel better.

[ClutchClark]

Obviously, every country has the right to deny a non national entry. However, if they do this, they should at least have the decency to advise why. If they don't, there is no integrity in their decision.

When it comes to issues of someone being on a terror watch list then I do not agree the reasons need to be made public because doing so could jeopardize an investigation or a method of collecting intel.

The US allows 1,000's of Muslims into the country every day so obviously the family was not denied entry due solely to the fact they were Muslim.

I feel bad for the kids who wanted to have fun over here but this is the Post-9/11 World where most acts of terror in Western nations are being committed by Muslims and the incidence of attacks are increasing rapidly.

Better safe than sorry.

Professional terrorist do not travel with the whole family..... and can get inside ANY country without going into customs or borders. The BIG problem now, is that ISIS is not a very common terrorist group...They have a LOT of easy money to buy people and officials.

What is the difference between a professional terrorist and just a plain ol' recreational terrorist?

Edited December 24, 2015 by ClutchClark

[Chicog]

I doubt many countries will want to get in a diplomatic tit-for-tat with the United States. We say jump and you countries ask how high...like with this whole esta visa waiver program itself. All you citizens of countries in the program have to get an electronic clearance before flying to the United States, while me and my US passport can just waltze into all your countries at my leisure (the only exception I'm aware is Australia).

Isn't hubris wonderful. UK passport holders, in conjunction with Germany, are ranked first worldwide in the number of countries permitting visa-free or visa on arrival entry

Of course, if you re-read my post or my response above, you will see that wasn't the point I was making...but you got in your USA-bashing for the day so I'm sure you feel better.

I re-read your post and you said:

me and my US passport can just waltze into all your countries at my leisure (the only exception I'm aware is Australia).

'Fraid you can't.

Anyway, I don't mind the ESTA. I'd rather do a bit of typing than fill out a stupid immigration card.

[simple1]

I doubt many countries will want to get in a diplomatic tit-for-tat with the United States. We say jump and you countries ask how high...like with this whole esta visa waiver program itself. All you citizens of countries in the program have to get an electronic clearance before flying to the United States, while me and my US passport can just waltze into all your countries at my leisure (the only exception I'm aware is Australia).

Isn't hubris wonderful. UK passport holders, in conjunction with Germany, are ranked first worldwide in the number of countries permitting visa-free or visa on arrival entry

Of course, if you re-read my post or my response above, you will see that wasn't the point I was making...but you got in your USA-bashing for the day so I'm sure you feel better.

OK.

Occasionally I may question aspects of US government policy, definitely not on a daily basis and more to the point don't post 'USA bashing' commentary.

Edited December 24, 2015 by simple1

[kinmaew]

Aren't Western things like Disney a sin? DELETED

Edited December 24, 2015 by seedy
racist

[buji]

What religion? USA has more integrated & respected religions than any other country.

[MaeJoMTB]

But it does seem unusual that, having gone through all the usual pre-travel vetting by the USA, they then pulled the whole family at the late stage of boarding, when they had checked-in without a problem ? Especially with children going to Disneyland at Christmas-time !

I'm betting 2 male adults, and 9 male children, travelling as a 'British family' and wearing full Islamic mufti raised a few 'hang on a minute' thoughts with the airport check in staff.

Edited December 24, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[thaibeachlovers]

Nobody can comment on the rightness or wrongness until the full details are exposed, if ever.

It could be discrimination, or it could be a member of the family was flagged for some real reason.

If the latter, why stop the entire family?

f

You are on point concerning finding out the reason. In the creeping police state the reason will not be divulged as a matter of security. Welcome to security Trumping freedom. No charges, no trial or justice oversight....

That is correct. No charges ergo no trial.

They were simply denied entry.

Happens everyday in every International Airport in the World.

They were not American citizens, they have no right to enter simply because they bought tickets to Disneyland.

Next.

I think everyone understands that there is no automatic right of entry. Duh.

The point is the secrecy as to why they were denied entry. If there is a reason, what is it? Why would the reason for denial be a secret?

Until we know why, the fact is how the OP portrays the situation, ie there does not seem to be a valid reason but it could have something to do with the "Muslimness" of the family.

it could have something to do with the "Muslimness" of the family.

Unless ALL Muslims have been stopped, that is patently untrue.

Far more likely is political activism of individuals.

Any of us could be stopped from travelling to LOS, as we all know, given that admission is subject to the immigration officer's approval. Why should the US be any different?

I'd like to be in the room when Cameron is told to get lost, LOL.

[Scott]

A typical troll post about gun violence has been removed along with many replies. Some of the replies were worthwhile and actually addressed the topic. I apologize for that. Please don't respond to troll posts and please stay on the topic.

[ggt]

Seems innocent enough on the surface...going to Disneyland for holiday...but why was he denied entry into the US previously? Something amiss here...I do not believe it was mean spirited officials...but people trying to do their job in light of current events...and insider information...

[Michael8511]

When I read all these post one thing come to my mind after following this forum for a while.

If this have been Thailand that had refused entry all these poster here defending US would have been furious and accusing Thai authorities for this and that. It's amazing to read about people's political believes when it come to immigration.

[Mr Moo]

Obviously, every country has the right to deny a non national entry. However, if they do this, they should at least have the decency to advise why. If they don't, there is no integrity in their decision.

Good poker players never show their hand (or emotions) until the deal is in the bag.

Who knows what the trigger was, maybe highlighting one individual could have ruined something else going on?

[ClutchClark]

Seems innocent enough on the surface...going to Disneyland for holiday...but why was he denied entry into the US previously? Something amiss here...I do not believe it was mean spirited officials...but people trying to do their job in light of current events...and insider information...

I recall another recent instance when the Immigation officials were doing their job and denied entry to a group of young South Korean entertainers.

Their publicist cried the girls had been accused of being sex workers.

Once calmer heads prevailed and the dust settled, it was discovered the girls were traveling as tourists but were actually coming to the US to perform work.

The point is it would befit many on this forum to try to calm their emotional outbursts until the facts are known. Wild claims made by interested parties are often just that, wild claims, and only meant to provoke. For instance, the claim they were denied for being Muslim only.

This is just meant to incite the more emotionally manipulated amongst us. A rational person would immediately recognize that millions of Muslims are allowed into the US annually, thereby disproving the claim.

Edited December 24, 2015 by ClutchClark

[thaibeachlovers]

But it does seem unusual that, having gone through all the usual pre-travel vetting by the USA, they then pulled the whole family at the late stage of boarding, when they had checked-in without a problem ? Especially with children going to Disneyland at Christmas-time !

I'm betting 2 male adults, and 9 male children, travelling as a 'British family' and wearing full Islamic mufti raised a few 'hang on a minute' thoughts with the airport check in staff.

That would be normal for a fundamentalist Islamic family. Women are to be kept away from any potential contact with unknown men, and the two men probably didn't want to have to be chaperoning them all the time. It is stupidity like that that makes me, for one, want such attitudes kept out of western countries.

[NickJ]

Well.....It's a start..........

[Ricardo]

But it does seem unusual that, having gone through all the usual pre-travel vetting by the USA, they then pulled the whole family at the late stage of boarding, when they had checked-in without a problem ? Especially with children going to Disneyland at Christmas-time !

I'm betting 2 male adults, and 9 male children, travelling as a 'British family' and wearing full Islamic mufti raised a few 'hang on a minute' thoughts with the airport check in staff.

Yet it's reported that the late-instruction to deny boarding came from the US, not from airport check-in staff, who clearly had been happy to check them in ?

I would consider two parents, seven children (were they all male ... I didn't see that anywhere yet) and two of their children's friends, the kids aged between 8 and 19, going to see Disneyland & Universal Studios in California, where they had other relatives they planned to visit, as a normal enough group during the school-holidays.

What would they have made of a group of Boy Scouts, or a Youth Club or Girl Guides, with appropriate leaders ?

A niece of mine recently helped lead a school-trip over to California, she got the pre-clearance too, perhaps coming from Sevenoaks rather than Walthamstow made a difference, who knows ? But how can normal people lead normal lives, when this can happen ?

[thaibeachlovers]

But it does seem unusual that, having gone through all the usual pre-travel vetting by the USA, they then pulled the whole family at the late stage of boarding, when they had checked-in without a problem ? Especially with children going to Disneyland at Christmas-time !

I'm betting 2 male adults, and 9 male children, travelling as a 'British family' and wearing full Islamic mufti raised a few 'hang on a minute' thoughts with the airport check in staff.

Yet it's reported that the late-instruction to deny boarding came from the US, not from airport check-in staff, who clearly had been happy to check them in ?

I would consider two parents, seven children (were they all male ... I didn't see that anywhere yet) and two of their children's friends, the kids aged between 8 and 19, going to see Disneyland & Universal Studios in California, where they had other relatives they planned to visit, as a normal enough group during the school-holidays.

What would they have made of a group of Boy Scouts, or a Youth Club or Girl Guides, with appropriate leaders ?

A niece of mine recently helped lead a school-trip over to California, she got the pre-clearance too, perhaps coming from Sevenoaks rather than Walthamstow made a difference, who knows ? But how can normal people lead normal lives, when this can happen ?

You may have missed it, but we don't live in normal times. Normal times is when we can go on a plane without someone having a bomb in their shoes and hoping to kill us all.

[ClutchClark]

Brother,

Its the new normal.

[JHolmesJr]

They are beginning to employ trumps policy already....nice.

[Richard W]

Every country (Schengen excepted) has the absolute right to deny entry to any foreigner for any reason and they are not required to explain. This is called sovereignty and has nothing to do with democracy.

Civilised countries, e.g. the UK, give a reason for such denials. This is called courtesy.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Richard W

[aTomsLife]

Every country (Schengen excepted) has the absolute right to deny entry to any foreigner for any reason and they are not required to explain. This is called sovereignty and has nothing to do with democracy.

Civilised countries, e.g. the UK, give a reason for such denials. This is called courtesy.

Nonsense. If UK Intelligence has an open file, ongoing investigation concerning a person being denied entry, mum's the word.

[ClutchClark]

Every country (Schengen excepted) has the absolute right to deny entry to any foreigner for any reason and they are not required to explain. This is called sovereignty and has nothing to do with democracy.

Civilised countries, e.g. the UK, give a reason for such denials. This is called courtesy.

I believe the reason has since been posted.

If you disagree with it then you are entirely free to boycott the US.

I will support your decision.

[Kasset Tak]

Nobody can comment on the rightness or wrongness until the full details are exposed, if ever.

It could be discrimination, or it could be a member of the family was flagged for some real reason.

If the latter, why stop the entire family?

f

You are on point concerning finding out the reason. In the creeping police state the reason will not be divulged as a matter of security. Welcome to security Trumping freedom. No charges, no trial or justice oversight....

That is correct. No charges ergo no trial.

They were simply denied entry.

Happens everyday in every International Airport in the World.

They were not American citizens, they have no right to enter simply because they bought tickets to Disneyland.

Next.

If you think that it's OK to deny people to travel to US because of their religion then maybe it's time to start denying travelers from US to enter EU, Australia and Asia just because they are from US as it's basically the same thing to deny anyone to travel/enter based on their religion!

[aTomsLife]

Nobody can comment on the rightness or wrongness until the full details are exposed, if ever.

It could be discrimination, or it could be a member of the family was flagged for some real reason.

If the latter, why stop the entire family?

f

You are on point concerning finding out the reason. In the creeping police state the reason will not be divulged as a matter of security. Welcome to security Trumping freedom. No charges, no trial or justice oversight....

That is correct. No charges ergo no trial.

They were simply denied entry.

Happens everyday in every International Airport in the World.

They were not American citizens, they have no right to enter simply because they bought tickets to Disneyland.

Next.

If you think that it's OK to deny people to travel to US because of their religion then maybe it's time to start denying travelers from US to enter EU, Australia and Asia just because they are from US as it's basically the same thing to deny anyone to travel/enter based on their religion!

As go straw man arguments, yours is the size of the Empire State Building.

[Richard W]

Every country (Schengen excepted) has the absolute right to deny entry to any foreigner for any reason and they are not required to explain. This is called sovereignty and has nothing to do with democracy.

Civilised countries, e.g. the UK, give a reason for such denials. This is called courtesy.

Nonsense. If UK Intelligence has an open file, ongoing investigation concerning a person being denied entry, mum's the word.

Perhaps there would be a lie in some circumstances. However, one does find (e.g. in a refusal to one Naeem Jeenah) formal refusal text such as

I have considered the circumstances of the application. I am not satisfied that your reasons for wanting to visit the United Kingdom are of a sufficiently compelling nature to override my belief that your exclusion from the United Kingdom is conducive to the public good on national security grounds. Therefore, I consider it undesirable to issue you an entry clearance and I am not prepared to exercise discretion in your favour. Your application is therefore refused under paragraph 320(19).