Koh Tao: Suspects found guilty of murdering British backpackers

[AleG]

Planet "I'm not making a judgement based on a single picture"

His wrists look very normal to me on this video: https://youtu.be/l4Z1zEjDj7I?t=1m13s

It's really bizarre how you guys are so psyched you actually seem to believe the man has some form of deformity.

You are seeing what you want to see, or what other people want you to see.

We're seeing what you don't want us to see.

I provided a video to demonstrate that the notion that Nomsod has a deformed arm/hand or always holds it in a quirky position is false, as anyone that watches the video can clearly see.

What should people believe, your say-so or what they can see with their own eyes?

What the people trying to frame him usually do is to use one frame from that video where his arm is crossed over his chest to "prove" their beliefs, watching the full video shows that frame is the midpoint between him moving his hair and letting the arm down, nothing to do with walking holding an arm at an awkward position.

I think unbiased people would see that the notion is false, and conclude that the people that perpetuate such patently false notions are not a reliable source of information.

[asiamaster]

Yeah...I know you have so much on your hands, like withstanding torture with a smile on your face, working part- time as a psychological advisor in migrant worker camps or surviving gruesome attacks on your life and health...so I will make it simple!

Let's say you got on a plane 4 days ago.

A plane filled with 150 (mostly) Asian people...

Now 4 days later, I come to you and show you 10 pictures of random Asian people...how many of them, would you be able to identify as passengers on that plane?

I know: YOU could identify all of them, because you are "special"...

On that particular morning NO ONE knew, who he was, what he had probably done and that he was the suspect in a double murder/ rape- case.

Most of the people (incl. ground personal and airline staff) had NO CLUE and probably didn't even have a clue about 3 or 4 days later, because they tend to watch soaps and read the funny's instead of the news.

It is simple logic, no conspiracy necessary!

AsianMASTER, my behind!

Some corrections: I was not smiling under torture but did keep my cool -which saved my life, my friend's life and my parents lives. As said long story so I won't bore you further.

Secondly, I do not work as a psychological adviser in migrant camps but I have done lectures on personality typing, human behaviour and cultural differences.

I will be on the Burmese border again in two weeks time. Our focus is on children protection and development. The adults are mostly lost cases. You have no idea what goes on in these camps (worker camps not refugee camps as these are monitored quite closely).

Yes people who have not lived in Asia for several decades even find it difficult to tell Asians of a different ethnicity apart. But it is not that difficult if you are an Asian yourself -they would be asking Thais in this case wouldn't they?

But asking me if i would have recognised Nomsod my answer would be: yes of course he had a limp wrist

Edited January 5, 2016 by asiamaster

[MorristheRunt]

Life is simple and this case is simple.

Two touritsts are murdered.

Police later that morning begin a very basic and limited investigation, but to their great credit they quickly identify

two suspects, both local men and most important of all ,known well by the police.

Warrants are issued for their arrests, one man is arrested on the island and is interviewed, the other is believed to fled to Bangkok.

Bangkok police are informed and begin the search to locate the fugitive.

Meanwhile back on the island, the major suspect is refusing to give a DNA sample, this refusal only increases the belief that the police have got their man. The investigation continues apace, and now CCTV images are reviewed and the two suspects identity's are confirmed.

But at this point something goes very wrong. The Police chief leading the investigation is hastily removed from the case and transferred and never heard from again. A new investigator is appointed and immediately states that a Thai did not commit this crime. Within hours one of the victims friends who has given the police total cooperation suddenly becomes a suspect. Then the biggest impact yet, a military Coup. Within days of this event the leader of the junta stakes that arrests will be made. Twenty four hours later the two Burmese are arrested and charged. This despite the fact that the Burmese have already been seen on TV voluntary giving their DNA which was not matched to the murders

The immediate investigation was botched, the crime scene was contaminated and interfered with but to his credit and bravery the Police Chief quickly and cleverly identified the real suspects despite the fact they were both local high profile and very influential figures.

What followed was Thailand's feudal system in full swing , and in my opinion a bloody, vicious and appalling miss carriage of justice.

A shameful and damming act on a proud nation that is Thailand.

[DM07]

Yeah...I know you have so much on your hands, like withstanding torture with a smile on your face, working part- time as a psychological advisor in migrant worker camps or surviving gruesome attacks on your life and health...so I will make it simple!

Let's say you got on a plane 4 days ago.

A plane filled with 150 (mostly) Asian people...

Now 4 days later, I come to you and show you 10 pictures of random Asian people...how many of them, would you be able to identify as passengers on that plane?

I know: YOU could identify all of them, because you are "special"...

On that particular morning NO ONE knew, who he was, what he had probably done and that he was the suspect in a double murder/ rape- case.

Most of the people (incl. ground personal and airline staff) had NO CLUE and probably didn't even have a clue about 3 or 4 days later, because they tend to watch soaps and read the funny's instead of the news.

It is simple logic, no conspiracy necessary!

AsianMASTER, my behind!

Some corrections: I was not smiling under torture but did keep my cool -which saved my life, my friend's life and my parents lives. As said long story so I won't bore you further.

Secondly, I do not work as a psychological adviser in migrant camps but I have done lectures on personality typing, human behaviour and cultural differences.

I will be on the Burmese border again in two weeks time. Our focus is on children protection and development. The adults are mostly lost cases. You have no idea what goes on in these camps (worker camps not refugee camps as these are monitored quite closely).

Yes people who have not lived in Asia for several decades even find it difficult to tell Asians of a different ethnicity apart. But it is not that difficult if you are an Asian yourself -they would be asking Thais in this case wouldn't they?

But asking me if i would have recognised Nomsod my answer would be: yes of course he had a limp wrist

Some corrections: I don't give 2 hot sh1ts about who you are, what you do and even less for your life-story!

This is not about "they all look alike to me"!

150 RANDOM Asian people on a plane, not given a flying frog about each other, minding their own business...THAT is the point!

Ooooohhh...I felt so much better, when I was ignoring you!

And by the way: there is a difference between "funny" and "pathetic"...too bad, you couldn't find the right smiley for your post!

[Artisi]

Life is simple and this case is simple.

Two touritsts are murdered.

Police later that morning begin a very basic and limited investigation, but to their great credit they quickly identify

two suspects, both local men and most important of all ,known well by the police.

Warrants are issued for their arrests, one man is arrested on the island and is interviewed, the other is believed to fled to Bangkok.

Bangkok police are informed and begin the search to locate the fugitive.

Meanwhile back on the island, the major suspect is refusing to give a DNA sample, this refusal only increases the belief that the police have got their man. The investigation continues apace, and now CCTV images are reviewed and the two suspects identity's are confirmed.

But at this point something goes very wrong. The Police chief leading the investigation is hastily removed from the case and transferred and never heard from again. A new investigator is appointed and immediately states that a Thai did not commit this crime. Within hours one of the victims friends who has given the police total cooperation suddenly becomes a suspect. Then the biggest impact yet, a military Coup. Within days of this event the leader of the junta stakes that arrests will be made. Twenty four hours later the two Burmese are arrested and charged. This despite the fact that the Burmese have already been seen on TV voluntary giving their DNA which was not matched to the murders

The immediate investigation was botched, the crime scene was contaminated and interfered with but to his credit and bravery the Police Chief quickly and cleverly identified the real suspects despite the fact they were both local high profile and very influential figures.

What followed was Thailand's feudal system in full swing , and in my opinion a bloody, vicious and appalling miss carriage of justice.

A shameful and damming act on a proud nation that is Thailand.

When the Village Glee Club wake up, have their morning choir practice - they will be all over this like a rash. Seems more entertaining half tweeted messages and other spurious information will be forthcoming soon.

[MorristheRunt]

Life is simple and this case is simple.

Two touritsts are murdered.

Police later that morning begin a very basic and limited investigation, but to their great credit they quickly identify

two suspects, both local men and most important of all ,known well by the police.

Warrants are issued for their arrests, one man is arrested on the island and is interviewed, the other is believed to fled to Bangkok.

Bangkok police are informed and begin the search to locate the fugitive.

Meanwhile back on the island, the major suspect is refusing to give a DNA sample, this refusal only increases the belief that the police have got their man. The investigation continues apace, and now CCTV images are reviewed and the two suspects identity's are confirmed.

But at this point something goes very wrong. The Police chief leading the investigation is hastily removed from the case and transferred and never heard from again. A new investigator is appointed and immediately states that a Thai did not commit this crime. Within hours one of the victims friends who has given the police total cooperation suddenly becomes a suspect. Then the biggest impact yet, a military Coup. Within days of this event the leader of the junta stakes that arrests will be made. Twenty four hours later the two Burmese are arrested and charged. This despite the fact that the Burmese have already been seen on TV voluntary giving their DNA which was not matched to the murders

The immediate investigation was botched, the crime scene was contaminated and interfered with but to his credit and bravery the Police Chief quickly and cleverly identified the real suspects despite the fact they were both local high profile and very influential figures.

What followed was Thailand's feudal system in full swing , and in my opinion a bloody, vicious and appalling miss carriage of justice.

A shameful and damming act on a proud nation that is Thailand.

When the Village Glee Club wake up, have their morning choir practice - they will be all over this like a rash. Seems more entertaining half tweeted messages and other spurious information will be forthcoming soon.

Let them do what they want, they are the ones who when the time come will feel the rath of the Thai nation. The Arab spring will look like a garden tea party when the Thai people wake from their slumber.

The murder of two foreigners is tragic but at the end of the day irrelevant, The conviction and framing of innocent men is a damming and evil act.

[bannork]

Life is simple and this case is simple.

Two touritsts are murdered.

Police later that morning begin a very basic and limited investigation, but to their great credit they quickly identify

two suspects, both local men and most important of all ,known well by the police.

Warrants are issued for their arrests, one man is arrested on the island and is interviewed, the other is believed to fled to Bangkok.

Bangkok police are informed and begin the search to locate the fugitive.

Meanwhile back on the island, the major suspect is refusing to give a DNA sample, this refusal only increases the belief that the police have got their man. The investigation continues apace, and now CCTV images are reviewed and the two suspects identity's are confirmed.

But at this point something goes very wrong. The Police chief leading the investigation is hastily removed from the case and transferred and never heard from again. A new investigator is appointed and immediately states that a Thai did not commit this crime. Within hours one of the victims friends who has given the police total cooperation suddenly becomes a suspect. Then the biggest impact yet, a military Coup. Within days of this event the leader of the junta stakes that arrests will be made. Twenty four hours later the two Burmese are arrested and charged. This despite the fact that the Burmese have already been seen on TV voluntary giving their DNA which was not matched to the murders

The immediate investigation was botched, the crime scene was contaminated and interfered with but to his credit and bravery the Police Chief quickly and cleverly identified the real suspects despite the fact they were both local high profile and very influential figures.

What followed was Thailand's feudal system in full swing , and in my opinion a bloody, vicious and appalling miss carriage of justice.

A shameful and damming act on a proud nation that is Thailand.

your timing is wrong, the coup happened in May, the murders in September

[AleG]

Life is simple and this case is simple.

Two touritsts are murdered.

Police later that morning begin a very basic and limited investigation, but to their great credit they quickly identify

two suspects, both local men and most important of all ,known well by the police.

Warrants are issued for their arrests, one man is arrested on the island and is interviewed, the other is believed to fled to Bangkok.

Bangkok police are informed and begin the search to locate the fugitive.

Meanwhile back on the island, the major suspect is refusing to give a DNA sample, this refusal only increases the belief that the police have got their man. The investigation continues apace, and now CCTV images are reviewed and the two suspects identity's are confirmed.

But at this point something goes very wrong. The Police chief leading the investigation is hastily removed from the case and transferred and never heard from again. A new investigator is appointed and immediately states that a Thai did not commit this crime. Within hours one of the victims friends who has given the police total cooperation suddenly becomes a suspect. Then the biggest impact yet, a military Coup. Within days of this event the leader of the junta stakes that arrests will be made. Twenty four hours later the two Burmese are arrested and charged. This despite the fact that the Burmese have already been seen on TV voluntary giving their DNA which was not matched to the murders

The immediate investigation was botched, the crime scene was contaminated and interfered with but to his credit and bravery the Police Chief quickly and cleverly identified the real suspects despite the fact they were both local high profile and very influential figures.

What followed was Thailand's feudal system in full swing , and in my opinion a bloody, vicious and appalling miss carriage of justice.

A shameful and damming act on a proud nation that is Thailand.

"Police later that morning begin a very basic and limited investigation, but to their great credit they quickly identify

two suspects, both local men and most important of all ,known well by the police."

False.

First suspects were three Burmese men:

Sept 16: “Three male Myanmar migrant workers are under police detention for investigation,” southern regional police commander Lt Gen Panya Maman said, without providing any further details."

Then a veritable conga line of suspects:

"September 16: DNA samples taken from the scene do not match those of any of a reported 12 suspects.

Officers claimed they had 'strong evidence' to link six Burmese workers to the gruesome murders, though no forensic links could be made.

Samples were taken from nine migrant workers and three foreigners including two brothers from Jersey who were friends of David Miller. "

What happened to the "strong evidence"?

"September 17: Thai police admit they have 'no idea' who killed David Miller and Hannah Witheridge after failing to link any of 12 suspects to the crime. "

Then mass DNA sampling of people on the island.

But somehow when Mon and Nomsod are named suspects and cleared that can't be true, they said they were suspects, they must be the murderers! They wouldn't name suspects if they didn't have rock solid proof!. Except that they did, repeatedly and had to backtrack when the evidence didn't pan out.

All this of course supposedly under the aegis of the "original" police team, the one that supposedly was doing everything right until they were pushed over by them.

"Warrants are issued for their arrests"

False, there were no arrest warrants.

"one man is arrested on the island and is interviewed"

False, he wasn't arrested, only questioned.

"Bangkok police are informed and begin the search to locate the fugitive."

The "fugitive" provided a well substantiated alibi by the second day.

"Meanwhile back on the island, the major suspect is refusing to give a DNA sample, this refusal only increases the belief that the police have got their man"

Increases the belief on internet sleuths that seem to have missed that he was DNA tested. I would link to the Bangkok Post article that points out that Montriwat submitted DNA to be tested but you'll have to look by yourself.

"The investigation continues apace, and now CCTV images are reviewed and the two suspects identity's are confirmed."

New CCTV images according to your assumptions only.

"But at this point something goes very wrong. The Police chief leading the investigation is hastily removed from the case and transferred and never heard from again."

False.

Here's the man that you say was never heard of again talking a week after your second favourite scapegoat was cleared: Oct 1st: "Police are confident that they will be able to issue warrant for the arrest of or arrest the suspects in the September 15 murder of two British bakcpackers on Koh Tao in a few days, said Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen, acting assistant national police chief, said today.

He disclosed that police had narrowed down the number of suspects to about ten who are to be requestioned. These ten suspects who include Thais, foreigners and Myanmar migrant workers were at the AC Bar on Koh Tao on the night of September 15 between midnight to 4.40 am of the following day"

The narrative talking point that they changed their focus to only Burmese people is also disproved there.

And just for good measure, here's the man you say was never heard of again:

"Within hours one of the victims friends who has given the police total cooperation suddenly becomes a suspect."

Citation needed that Sean McAnna was ever named a suspect?, by real police, not the ones that play at it on Internet.

"Then the biggest impact yet, a military Coup. Within days of this event the leader of the junta stakes that arrests will be made."

And so did Panya Mamen, you know, the guy who was supposed to be out of the picture by then...

"Twenty four hours later the two Burmese are arrested and charged. This despite the fact that the Burmese have already been seen on TV voluntary giving their DNA which was not matched to the murders"

The often repeated meme that they were tested and cleared, never proven but still trotted out as if was true, it's not.

But wait a second, are you admitting the two Burmese lied in court over that issue?

"The immediate investigation was botched, the crime scene was contaminated and interfered with but to his credit and bravery the Police Chief quickly and cleverly identified the real suspects despite the fact they were both local high profile and very influential figures."

Yes, they quickly identified three Burmese, no one foreigner, no, let's start a mass DNA sample of hundreds of people, no, wait, there's these two Thais... and there the armchair detectives planted their flag, declared everything sorted out and no need to see how things moved on from there. They had jumped the gun by "identifying" the murderers before, but this time it was the real deal, in spite of facts proving it wasn't, but who needs facts, right? Just make stuff up (as shown above) and stick to the narrative.

Same debunked talking points repeated over and over again; old members go, "new" members come and on it goes.

[MorristheRunt]

Lies, Damn lies and statistics

[phuketandsee]

What is the Thai word for "bent"

Begins with S

[MorristheRunt]

What is the Thai word for "bent"

Begins with S

Depens on how many Baht

Pay enough can you get a guest appearance from a very senior RTP officer praising your honesty and standing.

Edited January 5, 2016 by MorristheRunt

[AleG]

When the Village Glee Club wake up, have their morning choir practice - they will be all over this like a rash. Seems more entertaining half tweeted messages and other spurious information will be forthcoming soon.

Let them do what they want, they are the ones who when the time come will feel the rath of the Thai nation. The Arab spring will look like a garden tea party when the Thai people wake from their slumber.

The murder of two foreigners is tragic but at the end of the day irrelevant, The conviction and framing of innocent men is a damming and evil act.

You are still hoping for lynchings?

And you think the Thai people will raise up over this case...

A reality check for you, because you really need it; after the verdict and the way the defense handled it I noticed that pretty much all support for the cause by Thai people disappeared from Andy Hall's FB comments, they are not liking how this case is being used to instigate unrest.

The Anonymous page, the various "boycott" pages, the online petitions, all almost exclusively patronized by either Myanmar people or Westerners, even CSI-LA is getting a beating from Thai people.

The Thai people will not raise up to avenge your hurt feelings, if anything they'll go after those using this case to damage their country.

Edited January 5, 2016 by AleG

[AleG]

Lies, Damn lies and statistics

Arguments supported by facts, as any unbiased observer could see.

[MorristheRunt]

When the Village Glee Club wake up, have their morning choir practice - they will be all over this like a rash. Seems more entertaining half tweeted messages and other spurious information will be forthcoming soon.

Let them do what they want, they are the ones who when the time come will feel the rath of the Thai nation. The Arab spring will look like a garden tea party when the Thai people wake from their slumber.

The murder of two foreigners is tragic but at the end of the day irrelevant, The conviction and framing of innocent men is a damming and evil act.

You are still hoping for lynchings?

And you think the Thai people will raise up over this case...

A reality check for you, because you really need it; after the verdict and the way the defense handled it I noticed that pretty much all support for the cause by Thai people disappeared from Andy Hall's FB comments, they are not liking how this case is being used to instigate unrest.

The Anonymous page, the various "boycott" pages, the online petitions, all almost exclusively patronized by either Myanmar people or Westerners, even CSI-LA is getting a beating from Thai people.

The Thai people will not raise up to avenge your hurt feelings, if anything they'll go after those using this case to damage their country.

Is that a threat?

The Thai people I talk to are disgusted but not surprised, this is the norm in this country, protect the elite at all costs.

A certain case in Bangkok involving a very well known energy drink family member, basically killing a policeman in cold blood. The Thai people I come into contact with found that incident horrendous and disgusting.

Thai people are scared to show their real feelings, but times are changing. The young generation will not be easy to keep silent, there knowledge of the outside world is growing by the day thanks to the internet.

Single gateway.......that's under discussion for a reason, the elite are trying to fight back, but the young will not allow that.

Remember at the start of the coup...facebook turned off for 30 mins....outrage...quickly reinstated... the same will happen if a single gateway comes into play.

[KunMatt]

Life is simple and this case is simple.

Two touritsts are murdered.

Police later that morning begin a very basic and limited investigation, but to their great credit they quickly identify

two suspects, both local men and most important of all ,known well by the police.

Warrants are issued for their arrests, one man is arrested on the island and is interviewed, the other is believed to fled to Bangkok.

Bangkok police are informed and begin the search to locate the fugitive.

Meanwhile back on the island, the major suspect is refusing to give a DNA sample, this refusal only increases the belief that the police have got their man. The investigation continues apace, and now CCTV images are reviewed and the two suspects identity's are confirmed.

But at this point something goes very wrong. The Police chief leading the investigation is hastily removed from the case and transferred and never heard from again. A new investigator is appointed and immediately states that a Thai did not commit this crime. Within hours one of the victims friends who has given the police total cooperation suddenly becomes a suspect. Then the biggest impact yet, a military Coup. Within days of this event the leader of the junta stakes that arrests will be made. Twenty four hours later the two Burmese are arrested and charged. This despite the fact that the Burmese have already been seen on TV voluntary giving their DNA which was not matched to the murders

The immediate investigation was botched, the crime scene was contaminated and interfered with but to his credit and bravery the Police Chief quickly and cleverly identified the real suspects despite the fact they were both local high profile and very influential figures.

What followed was Thailand's feudal system in full swing , and in my opinion a bloody, vicious and appalling miss carriage of justice.

A shameful and damming act on a proud nation that is Thailand.

"Police later that morning begin a very basic and limited investigation, but to their great credit they quickly identify

two suspects, both local men and most important of all ,known well by the police."

False.

First suspects were three Burmese men:

Sept 16: “Three male Myanmar migrant workers are under police detention for investigation,” southern regional police commander Lt Gen Panya Maman said, without providing any further details."

Then a veritable conga line of suspects:

"September 16: DNA samples taken from the scene do not match those of any of a reported 12 suspects.

Officers claimed they had 'strong evidence' to link six Burmese workers to the gruesome murders, though no forensic links could be made.

Samples were taken from nine migrant workers and three foreigners including two brothers from Jersey who were friends of David Miller. "

What happened to the "strong evidence"?

"September 17: Thai police admit they have 'no idea' who killed David Miller and Hannah Witheridge after failing to link any of 12 suspects to the crime. "

Then mass DNA sampling of people on the island.

But somehow when Mon and Nomsod are named suspects and cleared that can't be true, they said they were suspects, they must be the murderers! They wouldn't name suspects if they didn't have rock solid proof!. Except that they did, repeatedly and had to backtrack when the evidence didn't pan out.

All this of course supposedly under the aegis of the "original" police team, the one that supposedly was doing everything right until they were pushed over by them.

"Warrants are issued for their arrests"

False, there were no arrest warrants.

"one man is arrested on the island and is interviewed"

False, he wasn't arrested, only questioned.

"Bangkok police are informed and begin the search to locate the fugitive."

The "fugitive" provided a well substantiated alibi by the second day.

"Meanwhile back on the island, the major suspect is refusing to give a DNA sample, this refusal only increases the belief that the police have got their man"

Increases the belief on internet sleuths that seem to have missed that he was DNA tested. I would link to the Bangkok Post article that points out that Montriwat submitted DNA to be tested but you'll have to look by yourself.

"The investigation continues apace, and now CCTV images are reviewed and the two suspects identity's are confirmed."

New CCTV images according to your assumptions only.

"But at this point something goes very wrong. The Police chief leading the investigation is hastily removed from the case and transferred and never heard from again."

False.

Here's the man that you say was never heard of again talking a week after your second favourite scapegoat was cleared: Oct 1st: "Police are confident that they will be able to issue warrant for the arrest of or arrest the suspects in the September 15 murder of two British bakcpackers on Koh Tao in a few days, said Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen, acting assistant national police chief, said today.

He disclosed that police had narrowed down the number of suspects to about ten who are to be requestioned. These ten suspects who include Thais, foreigners and Myanmar migrant workers were at the AC Bar on Koh Tao on the night of September 15 between midnight to 4.40 am of the following day"

The narrative talking point that they changed their focus to only Burmese people is also disproved there.

And just for good measure, here's the man you say was never heard of again:

"Within hours one of the victims friends who has given the police total cooperation suddenly becomes a suspect."

Citation needed that Sean McAnna was ever named a suspect?, by real police, not the ones that play at it on Internet.

"Then the biggest impact yet, a military Coup. Within days of this event the leader of the junta stakes that arrests will be made."

And so did Panya Mamen, you know, the guy who was supposed to be out of the picture by then...

"Twenty four hours later the two Burmese are arrested and charged. This despite the fact that the Burmese have already been seen on TV voluntary giving their DNA which was not matched to the murders"

The often repeated meme that they were tested and cleared, never proven but still trotted out as if was true, it's not.

But wait a second, are you admitting the two Burmese lied in court over that issue?

"The immediate investigation was botched, the crime scene was contaminated and interfered with but to his credit and bravery the Police Chief quickly and cleverly identified the real suspects despite the fact they were both local high profile and very influential figures."

Yes, they quickly identified three Burmese, no one foreigner, no, let's start a mass DNA sample of hundreds of people, no, wait, there's these two Thais... and there the armchair detectives planted their flag, declared everything sorted out and no need to see how things moved on from there. They had jumped the gun by "identifying" the murderers before, but this time it was the real deal, in spite of facts proving it wasn't, but who needs facts, right? Just make stuff up (as shown above) and stick to the narrative.

Same debunked talking points repeated over and over again; old members go, "new" members come and on it goes.

What will forever be a inconvenient truth for you that Mon and Nomsod were proven to be "definitely implicated in the crime" after being caught on CCTV at the crime scene. Nothing hearsay about this as it was said by the police who would've made certain of this fact before issuing a statement about it to the media. This also proves that Nomsod was on Koh Tao during the time of the crime because he and his uncle were recognised by the local police force who saw the CCTV footage who also learned from locals on Koh Tao that he had fled to Bangkok afterwards, So even if Nomsod's sketchy CCTV "alibi" taken hours after the crime is real (which I don't believe it is), then it is irrelevant because he was caught on CCTV in Koh Tao at the time of the crime.

All quoted from the local Thai police. Here's the news link again before you ask for the source to try and ignore it. http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run

[HUH]

I wonder why Mon refused to take a DNA test when first detained, highly suspicious, makes one wonder if he was buying time until he relented when questioned again. The article mistakes Sean for a frenchman

Police collected DNA samples from all employees of the AC Bar Tuesday and tested them for ... A police source said officers had previously questioned the two men in the pictures provided by the Frenchman but they denied any involvement in the murder and refused to give DNA samples to the police.

A police source told the Bangkok Post that even though the two men in the photo had been questioned over the murder, they did not provide DNA for analysis. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/koh-tao-thailand-photo-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-murder-suspects-1466751

Edited January 5, 2016 by HUH

[phuketandsee]

What is the Thai word for "bent"

Begins with S

Depens on how many Baht

Pay enough can you get a guest appearance from a very senior RTP officer praising your honesty and standing.

It involves a whole lot more than just money.

[KunMatt]

I wonder why Mon refused to take a DNA test when first detained, highly suspicious, makes one wonder if he was buying time until he relented when questioned again. The article mistakes Sean for a frenchman

Police collected DNA samples from all employees of the AC Bar Tuesday and tested them for ... A police source said officers had previously questioned the two men in the pictures provided by the Frenchman but they denied any involvement in the murder and refused to give DNA samples to the police.

A police source told the Bangkok Post that even though the two men in the photo had been questioned over the murder, they did not provide DNA for analysis. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/koh-tao-thailand-photo-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-murder-suspects-1466751

Yes, the facts are that Mon and Nomsod were caught on CCTV and seen to be "definitely implicated in the crime", and then when arrested refused to give DNA samples. This cannot be refuted.

[AleG]

"Police later that morning begin a very basic and limited investigation, but to their great credit they quickly identify

two suspects, both local men and most important of all ,known well by the police."

False.

First suspects were three Burmese men:

Sept 16: “Three male Myanmar migrant workers are under police detention for investigation,” southern regional police commander Lt Gen Panya Maman said, without providing any further details."

Then a veritable conga line of suspects:

"September 16: DNA samples taken from the scene do not match those of any of a reported 12 suspects.

Officers claimed they had 'strong evidence' to link six Burmese workers to the gruesome murders, though no forensic links could be made.

Samples were taken from nine migrant workers and three foreigners including two brothers from Jersey who were friends of David Miller. "

What happened to the "strong evidence"?

"September 17: Thai police admit they have 'no idea' who killed David Miller and Hannah Witheridge after failing to link any of 12 suspects to the crime. "

Then mass DNA sampling of people on the island.

But somehow when Mon and Nomsod are named suspects and cleared that can't be true, they said they were suspects, they must be the murderers! They wouldn't name suspects if they didn't have rock solid proof!. Except that they did, repeatedly and had to backtrack when the evidence didn't pan out.

All this of course supposedly under the aegis of the "original" police team, the one that supposedly was doing everything right until they were pushed over by them.

"Warrants are issued for their arrests"

False, there were no arrest warrants.

"one man is arrested on the island and is interviewed"

False, he wasn't arrested, only questioned.

"Bangkok police are informed and begin the search to locate the fugitive."

The "fugitive" provided a well substantiated alibi by the second day.

"Meanwhile back on the island, the major suspect is refusing to give a DNA sample, this refusal only increases the belief that the police have got their man"

Increases the belief on internet sleuths that seem to have missed that he was DNA tested. I would link to the Bangkok Post article that points out that Montriwat submitted DNA to be tested but you'll have to look by yourself.

"The investigation continues apace, and now CCTV images are reviewed and the two suspects identity's are confirmed."

New CCTV images according to your assumptions only.

"But at this point something goes very wrong. The Police chief leading the investigation is hastily removed from the case and transferred and never heard from again."

False.

Here's the man that you say was never heard of again talking a week after your second favourite scapegoat was cleared: Oct 1st: "Police are confident that they will be able to issue warrant for the arrest of or arrest the suspects in the September 15 murder of two British bakcpackers on Koh Tao in a few days, said Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen, acting assistant national police chief, said today.

He disclosed that police had narrowed down the number of suspects to about ten who are to be requestioned. These ten suspects who include Thais, foreigners and Myanmar migrant workers were at the AC Bar on Koh Tao on the night of September 15 between midnight to 4.40 am of the following day"

The narrative talking point that they changed their focus to only Burmese people is also disproved there.

And just for good measure, here's the man you say was never heard of again:

"Within hours one of the victims friends who has given the police total cooperation suddenly becomes a suspect."

Citation needed that Sean McAnna was ever named a suspect?, by real police, not the ones that play at it on Internet.

"Then the biggest impact yet, a military Coup. Within days of this event the leader of the junta stakes that arrests will be made."

And so did Panya Mamen, you know, the guy who was supposed to be out of the picture by then...

"Twenty four hours later the two Burmese are arrested and charged. This despite the fact that the Burmese have already been seen on TV voluntary giving their DNA which was not matched to the murders"

The often repeated meme that they were tested and cleared, never proven but still trotted out as if was true, it's not.

But wait a second, are you admitting the two Burmese lied in court over that issue?

"The immediate investigation was botched, the crime scene was contaminated and interfered with but to his credit and bravery the Police Chief quickly and cleverly identified the real suspects despite the fact they were both local high profile and very influential figures."

Yes, they quickly identified three Burmese, no one foreigner, no, let's start a mass DNA sample of hundreds of people, no, wait, there's these two Thais... and there the armchair detectives planted their flag, declared everything sorted out and no need to see how things moved on from there. They had jumped the gun by "identifying" the murderers before, but this time it was the real deal, in spite of facts proving it wasn't, but who needs facts, right? Just make stuff up (as shown above) and stick to the narrative.

Same debunked talking points repeated over and over again; old members go, "new" members come and on it goes.

What will forever be a inconvenient truth for you that Mon and Nomsod were proven to be "definitely implicated in the crime" after being caught on CCTV at the crime scene. Nothing hearsay about this as it was said by the police who would've made certain of this fact before issuing a statement about it to the media. This also proves that Nomsod was on Koh Tao during the time of the crime because he and his uncle were recognised by the local police force who saw the CCTV footage who also learned from locals on Koh Tao that he had fled to Bangkok afterwards, So even if Nomsod's sketchy CCTV "alibi" taken hours after the crime is real (which I don't believe it is), then it is irrelevant because he was caught on CCTV in Koh Tao at the time of the crime.

All quoted from the local Thai police. Here's the news link again before you ask for the source to try and ignore it. http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run

"Nothing hearsay about this as it was said by the police who would've made certain of this fact before issuing a statement about it to the media."

Yes, of course they would not say something like that unless 100% certain...

"A local police commander said today he believes a British man being held by police was responsible for the brutal murders of two young tourists on Koh Tao.

Police Col. Prachum Ruangthong, commander of Pha Ngan police department, told reporters he believes the killer was a British travel companion who is currently in police custody, according to INN, while DNA tests are underway to establish a link."

And then he was cleared... "UPDATE: Police say Ware no longer a suspect."

Same as always, you just cherrypick one bit and ignore all the rest.

Or just make stuff up, like "also learned from locals on Koh Tao that he had fled to Bangkok afterwards"

[KunMatt]

"Police later that morning begin a very basic and limited investigation, but to their great credit they quickly identify

two suspects, both local men and most important of all ,known well by the police."

False.

First suspects were three Burmese men:

Sept 16: “Three male Myanmar migrant workers are under police detention for investigation,” southern regional police commander Lt Gen Panya Maman said, without providing any further details."

Then a veritable conga line of suspects:

"September 16: DNA samples taken from the scene do not match those of any of a reported 12 suspects.

Officers claimed they had 'strong evidence' to link six Burmese workers to the gruesome murders, though no forensic links could be made.

Samples were taken from nine migrant workers and three foreigners including two brothers from Jersey who were friends of David Miller. "

What happened to the "strong evidence"?

"September 17: Thai police admit they have 'no idea' who killed David Miller and Hannah Witheridge after failing to link any of 12 suspects to the crime. "

Then mass DNA sampling of people on the island.

But somehow when Mon and Nomsod are named suspects and cleared that can't be true, they said they were suspects, they must be the murderers! They wouldn't name suspects if they didn't have rock solid proof!. Except that they did, repeatedly and had to backtrack when the evidence didn't pan out.

All this of course supposedly under the aegis of the "original" police team, the one that supposedly was doing everything right until they were pushed over by them.

"Warrants are issued for their arrests"

False, there were no arrest warrants.

"one man is arrested on the island and is interviewed"

False, he wasn't arrested, only questioned.

"Bangkok police are informed and begin the search to locate the fugitive."

The "fugitive" provided a well substantiated alibi by the second day.

"Meanwhile back on the island, the major suspect is refusing to give a DNA sample, this refusal only increases the belief that the police have got their man"

Increases the belief on internet sleuths that seem to have missed that he was DNA tested. I would link to the Bangkok Post article that points out that Montriwat submitted DNA to be tested but you'll have to look by yourself.

"The investigation continues apace, and now CCTV images are reviewed and the two suspects identity's are confirmed."

New CCTV images according to your assumptions only.

"But at this point something goes very wrong. The Police chief leading the investigation is hastily removed from the case and transferred and never heard from again."

False.

Here's the man that you say was never heard of again talking a week after your second favourite scapegoat was cleared: Oct 1st: "Police are confident that they will be able to issue warrant for the arrest of or arrest the suspects in the September 15 murder of two British bakcpackers on Koh Tao in a few days, said Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen, acting assistant national police chief, said today.

He disclosed that police had narrowed down the number of suspects to about ten who are to be requestioned. These ten suspects who include Thais, foreigners and Myanmar migrant workers were at the AC Bar on Koh Tao on the night of September 15 between midnight to 4.40 am of the following day"

The narrative talking point that they changed their focus to only Burmese people is also disproved there.

And just for good measure, here's the man you say was never heard of again:

"Within hours one of the victims friends who has given the police total cooperation suddenly becomes a suspect."

Citation needed that Sean McAnna was ever named a suspect?, by real police, not the ones that play at it on Internet.

"Then the biggest impact yet, a military Coup. Within days of this event the leader of the junta stakes that arrests will be made."

And so did Panya Mamen, you know, the guy who was supposed to be out of the picture by then...

"Twenty four hours later the two Burmese are arrested and charged. This despite the fact that the Burmese have already been seen on TV voluntary giving their DNA which was not matched to the murders"

The often repeated meme that they were tested and cleared, never proven but still trotted out as if was true, it's not.

But wait a second, are you admitting the two Burmese lied in court over that issue?

"The immediate investigation was botched, the crime scene was contaminated and interfered with but to his credit and bravery the Police Chief quickly and cleverly identified the real suspects despite the fact they were both local high profile and very influential figures."

Yes, they quickly identified three Burmese, no one foreigner, no, let's start a mass DNA sample of hundreds of people, no, wait, there's these two Thais... and there the armchair detectives planted their flag, declared everything sorted out and no need to see how things moved on from there. They had jumped the gun by "identifying" the murderers before, but this time it was the real deal, in spite of facts proving it wasn't, but who needs facts, right? Just make stuff up (as shown above) and stick to the narrative.

Same debunked talking points repeated over and over again; old members go, "new" members come and on it goes.

What will forever be a inconvenient truth for you that Mon and Nomsod were proven to be "definitely implicated in the crime" after being caught on CCTV at the crime scene. Nothing hearsay about this as it was said by the police who would've made certain of this fact before issuing a statement about it to the media. This also proves that Nomsod was on Koh Tao during the time of the crime because he and his uncle were recognised by the local police force who saw the CCTV footage who also learned from locals on Koh Tao that he had fled to Bangkok afterwards, So even if Nomsod's sketchy CCTV "alibi" taken hours after the crime is real (which I don't believe it is), then it is irrelevant because he was caught on CCTV in Koh Tao at the time of the crime.

All quoted from the local Thai police. Here's the news link again before you ask for the source to try and ignore it. http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run

"Nothing hearsay about this as it was said by the police who would've made certain of this fact before issuing a statement about it to the media."

Yes, of course they would not say something like that unless 100% certain...

"A local police commander said today he believes a British man being held by police was responsible for the brutal murders of two young tourists on Koh Tao.

Police Col. Prachum Ruangthong, commander of Pha Ngan police department, told reporters he believes the killer was a British travel companion who is currently in police custody, according to INN, while DNA tests are underway to establish a link."

And then he was cleared... "UPDATE: Police say Ware no longer a suspect."

Same as always, you just cherrypick one bit and ignore all the rest.

Or just make stuff up, like "also learned from locals on Koh Tao that he had fled to Bangkok afterwards"

You are the on cherrypicking. There was never any solid evidence against anyone like there was the CCTV footage which "definitely implicated them in the crime". You can try to wish this fact away but it is a fact which destroys your theory that the B2 acted alone in the crime.

[MorristheRunt]

Why would anyone refuse a DNA test if you were innocent.?

If I was a major business owner on the Island of Koh Tao, earning millions of Baht for myself and family, and two of my customers were murdered in "my back yard" and members of my family are named by the police as chief suspects. I would do anything to prove our innocence and clear our names.

The refusal by Mon of a DNA test was a shock, and aroused enormous suspicion. Added to the fact he had been photographed and filmed inside a crime scene pushing the suspicion beyond reasonable doubt he was involved. But that was not all! he was filmed and photographed with a police officer making threats to Dear little Scotty, now if their was the slightest doubt, it ended there and then

​

Edited January 5, 2016 by MorristheRunt

[RWA]

AleG:

"They checked his phone records, as it transpired during the trial hearings."

Excellent example of deliberate disinformation.

at some point, there really has been mentioned (by the prosecution), that Nomsod's phone records confirms that he was in BKK the day / hours after the murders.

I remember that clearly, as I was wondering why the defense didn't subpoena the record of at least 48 hrs, along with the airlines passenger list?!

[RWA]

They checked his phone records, as it transpired during the trial hearings.

Did they provide any corroborating evidence for their claim?

It's worth pointing out that police witnesesses regularly perjured themselves (and with impunity) during the trial.

No, they didn't provide any documentation / record, they just said that the morning after the murders Nomsod has been in BKK, and that fact has been proved by his mobile phone record check (which the police has done earlier)

[MorristheRunt]

Have the Court released the full transcripts of the trial yet?

And if not, are they going to?

[smedly]

I understood that from Dr. Pornthip's testimony and the UK's pathologist's report that there were no signs of rape. The initial reports from the autopsy also stated there was no signs of rape.

Personally I believe [not that what I believe counts at all] the whole scene was staged to look like a rape occurred. MOO

Eirene, but if this was staged, would that not have required elaborate prior planning of the crime? I cannot imagine how all this could have taken place in such a short timeframe whilst the murderers must have been under such time pressure and/or panic to cover up. How would they maintain their cool to stage all this within minutes and after such a vicious fight?? I assume everyone involved would have had visible injuries from the fight. Trying to profile the murderers, I am convinced that this is not the first time they have done this - then this could very well fit in with the unexplained death of the British guy, the French and followed by the young British journalist on Koh Tao. Somethings really stinks on that island and it was surely not the two midgets who killed Hannah and David. There is a pattern.... however, I cannot figure out why a rape should be staged - to cover for what??? That this was a result of complete loss of face and someone hi-up just went ballistic is very clear.... oh God, I just so hope for justice and the real murderers to be found.

motive - we need to make this look like a rape, Hannah was not killed in the place she was found, from the photos it was obvious she was killed right where there is a huge blood stain in the sand, David heard her screams either from his room (just like the two French girls) or was walking past on his way home, it is also possible he was walking her home, either way she or both of them were followed from the bar and David tried to defend her and was beaten to death - JMO

[AleG]

"Nothing hearsay about this as it was said by the police who would've made certain of this fact before issuing a statement about it to the media."

Yes, of course they would not say something like that unless 100% certain...

"A local police commander said today he believes a British man being held by police was responsible for the brutal murders of two young tourists on Koh Tao.

Police Col. Prachum Ruangthong, commander of Pha Ngan police department, told reporters he believes the killer was a British travel companion who is currently in police custody, according to INN, while DNA tests are underway to establish a link."

And then he was cleared... "UPDATE: Police say Ware no longer a suspect."

Same as always, you just cherrypick one bit and ignore all the rest.

Or just make stuff up, like "also learned from locals on Koh Tao that he had fled to Bangkok afterwards"

You are the on cherrypicking. There was never any solid evidence against anyone like there was the CCTV footage which "definitely implicated them in the crime". You can try to wish this fact away but it is a fact which destroys your theory that the B2 acted alone in the crime.

What does that footage show?

You don't know, do you?

You are just taking the words that an unspecified footage "definitely implicated them in the crime" but simultaneously ignoring that a few days ago they were saying that Chris Ware was "was responsible for the brutal murders of two young tourists on Koh Tao".

The footage in question is most probably the "Running Man" video; the suspect status came after CSI-LA decided that Nomsod was the man on that video, I'm sure that people from that tipped the police over it and they just took their word for it.

This is what they said at the time:

""Nom Sod" and his friends had posted comments on CSI during the time that Sean leaked out a statement that he was being threatened and bullied by the mafia. In many ways, this allowed Admin and people on CSI LA page to. see the suspicious behavior and we were able to recognize the close similarity in the physical features of the suspect betweem the CCTV video and "Nom Sod".

This is what was reported the day Nomsod and his uncle were cleared:

"Pol Gen Somyot pointed to groundless reports posted on social media that obstructed the investigation and confused the investigators."

And the witch hunt keeps on going...

[smedly]

I understood that from Dr. Pornthip's testimony and the UK's pathologist's report that there were no signs of rape. The initial reports from the autopsy also stated there was no signs of rape.

Personally I believe [not that what I believe counts at all] the whole scene was staged to look like a rape occurred. MOO

There is a pattern.... however, I cannot figure out why a rape should be staged - to cover for what???

To fit in with the story / motive / murder. Because the motive was sexual no? Beautiful woman, horny migrants, etc. You know?

I agree with Eirene there. I do feel there was no rape at all involved. Now in regards to how the DNA got inside her, well there's only one way. I would just requote a part of my previous post:

"He said that police officers flicked his genitals hard, pulled his legs apart and took photographs of him naked" - Source See Post #3149

now you are being just a little bit silly, how about there was no sperm at all, since we have no physical evidence of it, the police thus far have not produced it.

[smedly]

It takes 24 hours to isolate the DNA stem ladders, why? because 99.9% of all Human DNA is a match, if this is what the police lab got to match... Results are screwed!!! It is that .9% that needs to be Isolated!!! It takes 20-24hrs for this process, to insure no cross contamination of any of the Stems they have isolated, remember we need 16. Even then the results are not allowed to be classified as 100% as a positive match, that is Medically Impossible!!!

Great post, sometimes informative posts like this tend to slide from view due to the missdirectional posts by a couple of prolific posters.

I hope this type of information will be used in the appeal.

Yes impressive indeed -in particular his math

seemed like a personal slur - enjoy your holiday

[RWA]

According to this report, phone records were checked in the prosecution documents case file, however it certainly makes no mention of Nomsods data being checked. Also how detailed those checks were is also up for speculation.

It chronicles the events leading up to the discovery of the bodies. The Report sets out in detail the steps taken by the RTP in investigating the crime and in pursuing suspects and leads. It provides an account of how evidence was collected such as the performance of mass DNA testing, the identification and retrieval of CCTV footag from across the island, and the retrieval and collation of cell phone data etc. https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/hq_15X0311_final.pdf

At the trial reference to Nomsod was mentioned but nothing about phone records:

The man Ms Witheridge was rumoured to have an altercation with at the bar was seen on CCTV in Bangkok later on the morning of September 15, and has denied having anything to do with the murders.

He gave DNA samples in front of reporters to try to quell rumours that he was involved.

But in court today the senior investigating officer said he had never received the results of those DNA tests, or indeed any documentation from Bangkok regarding any interview with the man. He said he had been promised a report but it never arrived. http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_defence_team_hope_to_re_test_crucial_forensic_evidence_1_4164482

Maybe this will joggle your memory:

"HUH - I respect what you are saying but the fact that it was deemed necessary by the prosecution to state that Nomsod's phone records prove he was not on Koh Tao has resulted in a refueling of speculation."

If I remember correctly that piece of information came from a Tweet from Andy Hall, I'm not going to sift through all 30.000 or so of them for it.

But were the phone records shown to the defence team?

NOOO!!! ... and the defense didn't demand it either. Even though it mentioned ONLY that Nomsod has been in BKK (either received or made a call) during the morning hours after the murders. (didn't specified the exact time, didn't expand on the whole time frame!)

[Artisi]

AleG:

"They checked his phone records, as it transpired during the trial hearings."

Excellent example of deliberate disinformation.

at some point, there really has been mentioned (by the prosecution), that Nomsod's phone records confirms that he was in BKK the day / hours after the murders.

I remember that clearly, as I was wondering why the defense didn't subpoena the record of at least 48 hrs, along with the airlines passenger list?!

Probably not available, lost, destroyed etc

Edited January 5, 2016 by Artisi