jcsmith Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 I've read most of the posts on the previous post but I am still confused. According to what I read the Thai chief forensic scientist stated they found NO DNA from either accused on the murder weapon (hoe). My question is did they or did they not find any DNA from either accused on the condoms or the girl? Does anyone have the concrete "facts"? According to early police reports, they did. However they were unable to provide any of this evidence in court, and the UK coroner's report says that there was no indication of rape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard052 Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 I'm waiting for the Thai foreign Ministry to protest to Myanmar about the demo outside their embassy, after all Thais would never do such things and should be protected from insulting behaviour. Bullshit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGareth2 Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 have a feeling the Thai ambassador might be asked a few questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgordo38 Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 (edited) Why haven't the Brits investigative team weighed in with their findings? Why would the family thank the Thai justice system if the evidence was flawed? There is something going on here that makes no sense whatsoever. My understanding is that the Brits were allowed to see all the evidence. What would be the point to view it all if they are gonna cover up a botched investigation? If in their view it was botched or justice denied in the first place why would they be afraid of the Thai government to speak out? Something is amiss here. ..........Diplomacy trumps all...........How many UK crooks/murderers flee to Thailand to escape justice..........UK authorities dont want to lose Thai co-operation in finding them and extraditing them back to the UK...................Also fear ot Thailand revealing UK involvement, or potentially losing future Thai collusion, in dubious international undercover activities such as 'extraordinary rendition'..........Diplomacy trumps all. Yes Diplomacy is a gentile word for what goes on in front of and behind closed doors. For the sake of disclosure I am of the opinion that Diplomats and their employers (and it goes up the financial chain to Big Business) are all part of a big cabal to control us and feed us BS. Well back to watching Fox News. Edited December 25, 2015 by elgordo38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farcanell Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Would Thai court made the same verdict if instead of Myanmar nationals these convicted boys were American, British, Canadian, or Australians? No way, sir.... Especially not with the evidence as discussed. Lawyers, barristers and QC's would have descended like flocks of maddened wolfs on to Samui. Tourism would have suffered greatly.... Restrictions would have been put in place.... Protests would have been everywhere. But after that, if they were convicted... They would probably have Been guilty... Or there would be a front page story in every western newspapers about the injustice done to the convicted But these two lads, guilty or not, have seemingly had no competent representation from the get go, including their very own lawyer stating that they admitted to it. If they did it... Great... Off with their heads.... But as things stand, I cannot say guilt has even been indicated, except by the photos showing cops with pointed fingers. No witnesses..No reliable DNA..No case. Unless it's proved that the killers wore thongs, perhaps. Ridiculous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharecropper Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 I find it hard to understand the families' satisfaction with the verdicts. Obviously they need some closure for these shocking murders, but surely the must realise evidentially this case would have been thrown out before it even got to trial in the UK. And choice words would have been issued by the judge about the conduct of the police and prosecution too, Perhaps understandably, people can't believe the vast criminal conspiracy that is Thailand, unless you've lived here for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NongKhaiKid Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 I'm waiting for the Thai foreign Ministry to protest to Myanmar about the demo outside their embassy, after all Thais would never do such things and should be protected from insulting behaviour. Bullshit Care to explain ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lust Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Why aren't any of you joining the protests? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathon Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 To me the whole thing stinks like a barrel of rotting fish, from their failure to seal off the island from the start onward. My gut feeling is some posh boys are involved; those two don't look like the have the gumption to do anything... Just intuition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoon Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 (edited) Thais in Myanmar warned to be cautious The Thai embassy in Rangoon has warned Thai nationals living or travelling in Myanmar to take extraordinary cautions and to keep abreast with news developments following a protest by about 30 Burmese in front of the embassy on Thursday said Foreign Ministry’s spokesman Sek Wannamethee. The protesters rallied in front of the embassy for about an hour to voice their opposition to the Koh Samui provincial court’s verdict condemning two Myanmar migrant workers to death after finding them guilty of the murder of two British backpackers, David Miller and Hannah Witheridge, on Koh Tao island last year. The Myanmar government, said Mr Sek, has deployed more policemen, between 15-20, in front of the embassy as a precaution. The protest was peaceful and lasted about an hour before the protesters dispersed, he added. The embassy however reported that no Thais had been affected yet by the protest against the conviction verdict, said Mr Sek. Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/thais-in-myanmar-warned-to-be-cautious -- Thai PBS 2015-12-25 The obvious question begging to be answered is why is there no protest at the Thai embassy in London??? For the same reason that the verdict was announced when it was. Its been "buried " by Christmas (quite a big thing in the UK). But there is time yet. Edited December 25, 2015 by Enoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srikcir Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 "the Myanmar government was considering seeking royal pardon for the two convicts" Of course the defendents need go through the appeals process Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srikcir Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 "the Myanmar government was considering seeking royal pardon for the two convicts" Of course the defendents need go through the appeals process that might reverse the lower court ruling. Assuming the Supreme Criminal Court upholds the guilty ruling, it is unlikely a royal pardon for murder and rape will be endorsed. But the request for a royal pardon in itself would be humiliating to the Prayut government as a rebuke to his reform of the justice system. And Thailand will not be viewed as the ASEAN hub for Justice. The best case scenario if conviction is upheld in appeals is life due to some such feigned weakness in the prosecution's case such as inability of the defence to confirm DNA results. Then maybe the Myanmar government can request that the defendents serve out their life sentence back in Myanmar for humantarium reasons. After a while their sentence can be commuted by the Myanmar PM, maybe become Buddhist monks. Thailand's justice system remains credible and Prayut stands as the progenitor of law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yann55 Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 "The government will continue to help through diplomatic channels without damaging Thailand's sovereignty, its independent court ruling and bilateral relations between Burma and Thailand," he said. = they will do nothing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lingba Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 I wonder what the the thoughts are of the parents of the victims Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rasmus5150 Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Why aren't any of you joining the protests? it is not allowed to protest in Thailand at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckmandon Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Looks like a very peaceful protest by the photo. They started a riot in Phuket when the 2 boys were killed escaping from Police. At least the Burmese have a bit of civility about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianf Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 I find it hard to understand the families' satisfaction with the verdicts. Obviously they need some closure for these shocking murders, but surely the must realise evidentially this case would have been thrown out before it even got to trial in the UK. And choice words would have been issued by the judge about the conduct of the police and prosecution too, Perhaps understandably, people can't believe the vast criminal conspiracy that is Thailand, unless you've lived here for a while. One expat I spoke to said that if the brother had found the B2 rightfully convicted, then who are we to argue? Such extreme bulls... To understand the verdict you have to understand Thailand. The verdict says everything about money, power, corruption and how expendable the lives of the Burmese are. Michael Miller should be ashamed of himself, I'm sorry to say. He knows nothing about how things work here and has allowed himself to be manipulated into believing that this is a fair conviction. Disgusting and horrendous are the only words left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si Thea01 Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 I've read most of the posts on the previous post but I am still confused. According to what I read the Thai chief forensic scientist stated they found NO DNA from either accused on the murder weapon (hoe). My question is did they or did they not find any DNA from either accused on the condoms or the girl? Does anyone have the concrete "facts"? The Thai police say they found semen inside the victim. When challenged to produce the sample, they said it had all been "used up". When challenged to produce the test results, they produced a one-page hand-amended document that was not credible and showed the boys DNA but not the source. It could have been the cheek swab test. When challenged again, they declined to produce the test results. An internationally-renowned expert has said what they provided is not evidence and the timeline was impossible. The UK coroner found no signs of rape. Do you believe the Thai police? I don't. I have not been following this for a while, just two questions, if you can help, as you seem to be well up on the case. Did the coroner in the UK find any evidence of sexual penetration? Was the internationally-renowned expert called as a witness or was he just offering an opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Fairfield Posted December 25, 2015 Author Share Posted December 25, 2015 Myanmar govt challenged by Koh Tao verdict Myanmar Eleven Bangkok, Yangon - The death sentence handed down to two Myanmar migrant workers without any strong evidence posted a challenge to the Myanmar government, said a special envoy from Myanmar embassy in Bangkok. In saying so, Kyaw Thaung mentioned that the government recently released 92 Thais who were arrested along with weapons and illegal timber in Myanmar waters for the sake of bilateral friendship. The Samui court in Thailand yesterday sentenced to death two workers - Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Tun, sparking a protest by some 15 people in front of the Royal Thai Embassy in Yangon. Hundreds showed up at 11am today, demanding the Thai government to change the verdict. Several of them held a poster reading "Build friendly relation, the two neighbours. Free Zaw Lin & Win Zaw Tun!!!". Kyaw Thaung said that an appeal against the ruling would be submitted within seven days. Moe Gyo, representing the Joint Movement Committee for affairs of Myanmar nationals in Thailand, said that the two workers were sacrificed to save the Thai junta's dignity. "Everyone knows it's a dishonest work by Thai police. There is no convincing evidence [to prove they're murderers]. The Thai government reached this decision to save its dignity, although Thai law experts and criminologists repeatedly asked for the acquittal. They were sacrificed," Moe Gyo said. The committee is based in Mae Sot. The ruling, fair or unfair, shall unite Myanmar nationals home and abroad, said Moe Gyo. Yesterday, soon after the invitation to a protest today spread on Facebook, Dagon Township police station instantly increased the number of security police forces near the Thai Embassy. They also set security measures on Manawhari Street where the Embassy is located. Passers-by were not allowed to walk through the street without security forces' approval. Ye Htut, the information minister and the presidential spokesperson, and President Office director Zaw Htay announced on their personal Facebook pages that the Myanmar government would demand the Thai government to review the case in line with the Thai laws and regulations, to ensue justice for Zaw Lin & Win Zaw Tun. Both of them said that the Myanmar Embassy in Thailand would cooperate with other Myanmar organisations in Thailand to ensue justice for the two Myanmar citizens. Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Myanmar-govt-challenged-by-Koh-Tao-verdict-30275662.html -- The Nation 2015-12-25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Fairfield Posted December 25, 2015 Author Share Posted December 25, 2015 Protest outside Thai embassy in Myanmar against murder verdict The Nation YANGON - Hundreds of protesters demonstrated outside Thailand's embassy in Yangon Friday after two Myanmar migrants were sentenced to death by a Thai court for murdering two British backpackers, in a verdict that has sparked anger in their homeland. Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Tun were found guilty on Thursday of killing David Miller, 24, and the rape and murder of Hannah Witheridge, 23, whose battered bodies were found on a beach on the southern Thai diving resort of Koh Tao in September last year. The grim killings have sullied Thailand’s reputation as a tourist haven and raised questions over its justice system after the defence accused the police of bungling their investigation and using the men as scapegoats -- a charge authorities deny. Hundreds of people, including monks, gathered in Yangon to protest the verdict, many saying they believed the two men had been wrongly convicted. "This is just discrimination against us," demonstrator Min Thein Khaing told AFP. "There was little evidence, no witnesses and not much DNA evidence but still they got a death sentence. It’s unfair." Many held signs with English slogans such as "Save Myanmar Poor Boys" and "Free Our Innocent Citizens". Others held aloft pictures of Thailand’s King Bhumibol Adulyadej, saying they were appealing to him for clemency. A police cordon stopped protesters demonstrating opposite the embassy itself, confining them to the end of the street instead. The rally came as Myanmar’s ambassador in Thailand met with senior government officials. "After hearing the verdict, as a human being I felt regret but it’s a judicial matter that still has to proceed," ambassador Win Maung told reporters through a translator. "I hope this case will receive special care and won’t affect bilateral ties." Thailand has warned its citizens to take care in Myanmar following the verdict. Thai prosecutors and police insist their evidence against the men was rock solid, including DNA found on Witheridge’s body. But the defence, which has vowed to appeal the verdict, disputed the forensic evidence, saying it was improperly collected and processed. They also accused the police of torturing their clients into signing confessions, which they later retracted. Amnesty International has called on Thai authorities to fully investigate the torture allegations, something the rights group said had yet to happen. However the Thai authorities have received an endorsement from David Miller’s family who backed investigators after the verdict was announced, saying they believed the evidence against the two accused was "overwhelming". The court in Koh Samui also dismissed the defence’s torture allegations. Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Protest-outside-Thai-embassy-in-Myanmar-against-mu-30275655.html -- The Nation 2015-12-25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Fairfield Posted December 25, 2015 Author Share Posted December 25, 2015 Myanmar govt vows to continue support for convicted Koh Tao duo YANGON:-- The Myanmar government has vowed to continue assisting two migrant workers accused of murdering British tourists David Miller and Hannah Witheridge in Thailand, after the pair were sentenced to death by the Koh Samui provincial court on Thursday, The Irrawaddy reported. Hours after the verdict, President’s Office director Zaw Htay wrote on Facebook that the government would support Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo, both 22, during their expected appeals. “The Burmese government will continue to help through diplomatic channels without damaging Thailand’s sovereignty, its independent court ruling and bilateral relations between Myanmar and Thailand,” he said, adding that if needed the government would appeal to the Thai Privy Council for a reduction in the sentences. Win Maung, the ambassador to Thailand, said the embassy dealt with reports of serious assaults involving Myanmar migrant workers on an average of twice per week. His office has been following the case against Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo since their arrest last year. He said the embassy would continue to offer assistance to the pair in accordance with Thai law. Source: -- Thai PBS 2015-12-25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springheeled jack Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 I really cant understand why the victims families have accepted the verdict knowing full well the case was an absolute farce from beginning to end an absolute shambles and these two young boys literally have no recourse any appeal would in my opinion would be in vain . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 A nonsense post has been removed as well as the replies: 9) You will not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling. Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokie Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Justice? Depends on the contents of a brown envelope to the correct benefactor/s I still hope they do not actually execute these two young men on farcical evidence... I hope the real perps die a long agonising very slow death and the no good scum who covered for them and was party to it all, Disgusting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregk0543 Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 What is really tragic is that two young English backpackers were murdered and raped in a very cruel and evil way, by person or persons who must be some of the lowest form of humans around. This is something there is no getting around, is beyond doubt and they had their lives and futures taken away from them and their families. The next tragic thing is that we will never know with certainty who did it unless they have the remorse and integrity to own up to their actions. But few people who do stuff as senseless and cruel as this are going to come clean. This trial and story is not over yet. It will go to the supreme court of thailand in the end. The story is tragic beginning to end and for all involved. May they all attain peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillyflower Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 The whole thing has been so much mismanaged from the very beginning that even if the boys were guilty, they should have been acquitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dageurreotype Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 remorse and integrity to own up to their actions. Neither remorse nor integrity are Thai traits. Not 'bashing', merely stating a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemguy Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 (edited) Well folks...it all worked out just the way the authorities wanted it to work out while the unexpected bonus for the prosecution is the families of the 2 deceased victims bought into the deception........ hook, line and sinker. I guess we all watch too many Hollywood movies and forever hopeful somehow, some way justice will be served in proper order. Could those 2 Burmese men have done what was done in such a brutal manner? Yes they could have ...but we know they did not while the really creepy part is how it could have been any other 2 Burmese men residing in the area as any other 2 totally vulnerable scapegoats would have been just as easy to arrest and manipulate and force a confession out of them while under duress and hold them accountable and orchestrate all of what the Thai police did orchestrate ...with impunity of course ..as usual....once again. I can only surmise those that did orchestrate the whole twisted affair have no remorse at all...none...as they are humans without souls. Cheers Edited December 25, 2015 by gemguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsailor35 Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 I've read most of the posts on the previous post but I am still confused. According to what I read the Thai chief forensic scientist stated they found NO DNA from either accused on the murder weapon (hoe). My question is did they or did they not find any DNA from either accused on the condoms or the girl? Does anyone have the concrete "facts"? The Thai police say they found semen inside the victim. When challenged to produce the sample, they said it had all been "used up". When challenged to produce the test results, they produced a one-page hand-amended document that was not credible and showed the boys DNA but not the source. It could have been the cheek swab test. When challenged again, they declined to produce the test results. An internationally-renowned expert has said what they provided is not evidence and the timeline was impossible. The UK coroner found no signs of rape. Do you believe the Thai police? I don't. This is only one of the reasons that the arrogant Miller spokesman really needs to go back and study an English version of the trial. He says that he was in the court, but don't understand or speak a word of Thai. So how can he be satisfied with his perceived "good RTP investigation methods" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Thais in Myanmar warned to be cautious The Thai embassy in Rangoon has warned Thai nationals living or travelling in Myanmar to take extraordinary cautions and to keep abreast with news developments following a protest by about 30 Burmese in front of the embassy on Thursday said Foreign Ministry’s spokesman Sek Wannamethee. The protesters rallied in front of the embassy for about an hour to voice their opposition to the Koh Samui provincial court’s verdict condemning two Myanmar migrant workers to death after finding them guilty of the murder of two British backpackers, David Miller and Hannah Witheridge, on Koh Tao island last year. The Myanmar government, said Mr Sek, has deployed more policemen, between 15-20, in front of the embassy as a precaution. The protest was peaceful and lasted about an hour before the protesters dispersed, he added. The embassy however reported that no Thais had been affected yet by the protest against the conviction verdict, said Mr Sek. Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/thais-in-myanmar-warned-to-be-cautious -- Thai PBS 2015-12-25 The obvious question begging to be answered is why is there no protest at the Thai embassy in London??? Do you mean over a year ago or soon after the murders? Surely not now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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