Are Thais Worse Than Farangs For Litter?

[Thaddeus]

I recall visiting Thailand about 20 years ago. We were all riding in a mini van ...a bunch of friends and relatives . One of them collected all the garbage , put it in a plastic bag, opened the window and tossed the bag out thw window as the van sped along.

I can never forget that.

The people we were travelling with were very nice folks. Mostly well educated and from good families.

It's a cultural thing, I think.

Perhaps not all Thais are as sensitve to litter as long as it isn't on their property.

I'd like to get a Thai's point of view on this

I'm not Thai, but I can reiterate one point made by sbk much earlier.

It isn't that far back in history, anything you bought to eat or drink in LOS came in a biodegradable container, banana leaf, bamboo stick, coconut shell. They could be tossed over the shoulder and not have a negative effect on the environment, quite the opposite.

It took me quite some time to 'educate' my step-daughter into not doing that with plastic bags/bottles etc.

With adults, it's now endemic, kids can be taught, this is how you do it.

Pay the kids 20 Baht to collect the litter blowing around your house and then store it in one place.... when the 'recycle man' fronts up on his vehicle of choice, sell him the refuse.... let the kids keep the proceeds..... it doesn't take too long before you don't need the first 20 Baht incentive.

My 'little girl' now grabs the almost empty can of Birdy Coffee from me in the car..... the current generation are a nation of litterers... the next generation may not be with a little help

[pap]

Does anyone know of any associations formed by some of the major tourism players. It seems to me that it is in that industry's best interest to form some sort of response to this issue. With the cost of labor it would seem to be a good investment and a decent start.

[pap]

I recall visiting Thailand about 20 years ago. We were all riding in a mini van ...a bunch of friends and relatives . One of them collected all the garbage , put it in a plastic bag, opened the window and tossed the bag out thw window as the van sped along.

I can never forget that.

The people we were travelling with were very nice folks. Mostly well educated and from good families.

It's a cultural thing, I think.

Perhaps not all Thais are as sensitve to litter as long as it isn't on their property.

I'd like to get a Thai's point of view on this

I'm not Thai, but I can reiterate one point made by sbk much earlier.

It isn't that far back in history, anything you bought to eat or drink in LOS came in a biodegradable container, banana leaf, bamboo stick, coconut shell. They could be tossed over the shoulder and not have a negative effect on the environment, quite the opposite.

It took me quite some time to 'educate' my step-daughter into not doing that with plastic bags/bottles etc.

With adults, it's now endemic, kids can be taught, this is how you do it.

Pay the kids 20 Baht to collect the litter blowing around your house and then store it in one place.... when the 'recycle man' fronts up on his vehicle of choice, sell him the refuse.... let the kids keep the proceeds..... it doesn't take too long before you don't need the first 20 Baht incentive.

My 'little girl' now grabs the almost empty can of Birdy Coffee from me in the car..... the current generation are a nation of litterers... the next generation may not be with a little help

This is exactly the approach that started things off in the US. I remember picking up cans as a kid to make money. My question to you is do the kids have someone to sell these to? I don't know the answer. Maybe you do.

Initially the recycling centers need to be subsidised but over time they become profitable.

[Thaddeus]

My question to you is do the kids have someone to sell these to? I don't know the answer. Maybe you do.

That's why I like village life...... the 'recycle man' finds you..... he makes a living out of it, the kids get educated (and a new chakayarn every year)..... and the streets stay clean.

[khall64au]

My question to you is do the kids have someone to sell these to? I don't know the answer. Maybe you do.

That's why I like village life...... the 'recycle man' finds you..... he makes a living out of it, the kids get educated (and a new chakayarn every year)..... and the streets stay clean.

But why can't nations like Thailand learn from the 'recent histories' of other nations? Why do they have to re-invent the wheel and turn the clock back 100 years to decide what is BEST for the environment ... when the answers are already there??????????

[pap]

My question to you is do the kids have someone to sell these to? I don't know the answer. Maybe you do.

That's why I like village life...... the 'recycle man' finds you..... he makes a living out of it, the kids get educated (and a new chakayarn every year)..... and the streets stay clean.

But why can't nations like Thailand learn from the 'recent histories' of other nations? Why do they have to re-invent the wheel and turn the clock back 100 years to decide what is BEST for the environment ... when the answers are already there??????????

Unfortunately the answer is it took a full generation of schooling in western societies to make this the norm. They are just starting so a full generation has not had time to develope this mind set.

The time frame that it took to go from bananna leaves to plastic was a compressed time frame compared to western cultures moving from their storage medium to plastic. There are still many many places in Thailand where bananna leaves and plastic coexist. It simply takes time that they have not had and it must become a priority that it currently isn't.

[kmart]

It is indeed an individual thing, but as a general rule Thais treat th their enviroment like a rubbish tip.

No, I'll correct that.

They do not treat "Their Enviroment" as a rubbish tip, they look after that very nicely.

They treat anything which is not 'Their Environment' as a tip.

The boudary between 'Theirs' and 'Not Theirs' is exactly at the fence/wall/door of their property.

So Thais will quite happily dump their trash over their own back fence - out of sight, out of their world and oout of thought.

Take a stroll around the back of Thai estates to see the evidence with your own eyes.

----

I'm in Rome, and I don't necesseraly do as the Romans do.

----

Good observation. Outside their own little world / garden / moo bahn seems to be outside their perception, Thai's seem to blank that off. And chuck their crap into it. Their personal space is very small maybe due to all the family normally living together, and may explain why they're such bloody awful, selfish drivers too.

I've seen rubbish bags flying out of cars; kids chucking their drinks cans from taxis; ###### teens smashing beer bottles on the beach; etc.

I remember my parents coming over for a holiday and being appalled at the <deleted> lying all over the local beach and environs; I had to tell them that they were just in time to catch Rayong's famous "Festival Of Litter"

I've said it on another thread, but I think that if some tv time was devoted to a few short public awareness notices instead of the garish, crass talk shows; game shows; blanket advertising for crap that flood the airwaves, improvements might happen?

[Tywais]

My question to you is do the kids have someone to sell these to? I don't know the answer. Maybe you do.

That's why I like village life...... the 'recycle man' finds you..... he makes a living out of it, the kids get educated (and a new chakayarn every year)..... and the streets stay clean.

My wife and I place all our plastics and tins in a bag and our nephews come over to pick them up when full. The thing is, it was their (nephews) idea to do it and they are only 9 & 12 years old. I feel there is light at the end of the tunnel and if the schools educate the kids on this it will get better in time.

[Tony Clifton]

Screw the environment! It takes up so much space and it's too much trouble to keep it clean.

[soic]

My question to you is do the kids have someone to sell these to? I don't know the answer. Maybe you do.

That's why I like village life...... the 'recycle man' finds you..... he makes a living out of it, the kids get educated (and a new chakayarn every year)..... and the streets stay clean.

But why can't nations like Thailand learn from the 'recent histories' of other nations? Why do they have to re-invent the wheel and turn the clock back 100 years to decide what is BEST for the environment ... when the answers are already there??????????

But Thailand is learning... everytime one person shows their step-daughter how to make money recycling. Everytime someone teaches their nephews to recycle. Everytime someone starts cleaning a street and gets the neighbors to participate, gathers a few friends to help clean a section of beach or simply speaks up and asks someone not to throw their trash out the window. The major problem with learning is that there has to be someone to teach. If we stand around wagging fingers, then that's what they learn; litter and everything else is somebody else's problem.

[stiggy]

Unfourtunatly Rubbish is a global thing.

As for Op question Thai and foreigners alike can be equally inconsiderate in Thailand,Human nature dictates some give a s***t others dont.

The rubbish over the wall thing is evident all over Thailand next door to a manicured lawn with a merc on the drive.

Tourists think nothing of throwing Cig butts cans of either ferrys or dive boats.

Tesco big C etc buy 10 average size items get 8 carrier bags considerate packing reduces to 2 or 3 bags:blink: ( I had a newspaper put in its own carrier bag the other day)

However on returning to UK after 6 yrs this yr I was appauled on exiting Gatwick airport,welcome to Uk (looked like Bangladesh after storm surge and flooding crap everywhere) Wife and I watched the contarcted rubbish collectors empty bins and kick all the surrounding stuff in the bushes.

So my point is we can all do a little to improve our immediate areas and reduce plastic use in the first place.

Is Thailand dirty? yup can be

Is western world a any cleaner? Particulary citys? predominatly no!

So next time you throw your plastic crap off a boat in any ocean hope you fall of

[calibanjr.]

Last medium size flooding (three feet in the soi) in Si Ping Muang area (CM), I had to wade to my office. Had to dodge debris (not unusual, but this was pretty thick) and stop every 30 yards or so to peel the plastic bags off of my legs.

Recycling is always good, except when the people who recycle batteries pour the waste acid into the rain gutter.

I posted about this six months or so back, but as to education, do the Americans here remember the crying Indian (Native-American) commercial? Up to that point it was common to see people throw McD bags and other paper out of a car on the highway. After the ad, I mean it was just along the scale of a 95% dropoff in litter! OK, I doubt that an exact repetition is possible (I think most of the driving force behind that was probably guilt about stealing the land and THEN polluting it too), but I do think the projects mentioned above have merit.

[quadricorrelator]

I have quite a bit of anecdotal data to suggest a high rate of biological litter. There seems to be a level of public urinary freedom that I am not familiar with.

[Insight]

Don't forget that Thailand is a relatively poor country and there are many scavengers about. No doubt, it’s a pretty poor excuse for leaving your shit lying around, but perhaps that helps remove the guilt with the locals.

Leave something remotely valuable in your litter outside and chances are it won’t be the bin men/garbage collectors getting their hands on it first.

[Richb2004v2]

Rubbish is everywhere in Thailand. As said before the Thais seem to be happy to work in it and live around it. I was at Jaktojak today, and was amazed to see a pile of rubbish as high as me around which folk were cooking and serving food. Entire markets can be set up in dark, dank areas with rubbish standing everywhere and broken water pipes all around. I think that it comes down to common sense. Rubbish and rats make for a bad area to sell food. This is not something a person should need telling. The lack of common sense thing is evident on every road in Thailand. The Thais seem to have an entirely different, or some might say non-existent, logic. In such respects I wonder if there has been any improvement in the past twenty years. In the ten years I have been living and visiting Thailand I don’t think I have seen any improvement. I guess that until somebody can make money from it nothing will be done.

[Unknown]

If you only changed one mind by cleaning up then that would be a start, wouldn't it?

In an ideal world, it would be.

But let's see Singapore where people littering are fined or even have to do some community service, i.e. collecting garbage for some time.

As soon as the Singapore governement stops collecting the garbage and cleaning the streets and beaches, if only for one day, it looks like the slumps in Manilla, Jakarta or elsewhere.

I agree that it is a question of education but I'm afraid it is not a question of example...

expanding on that...the infastructure must be available for the shift in attitude that musta also occur.

Whatever infrastructure you have, if people think it is no problem to litter, there won't be any change.

Did I say education?

[Thaddeus]

In the ten years I have been living and visiting Thailand I don’t think I have seen any improvement. I guess that until somebody can make money from it nothing will be done.

Well, you do something then..... it requires minimal effort on your part and the benefits are quite rewarding.

[weary]

I agree, moaning about others doesnt solve anything. The best way to improve things is to set a good example.

I remember about 10 years ago on Koh Lanta, speaking with the caretaker of a bungalow operation.

She was upset because a German man had complained that they should clean the beach. All she could say about the matter was "Rao jarern laeo" (We're civilized/developed now)... much more important to her than litter on the beach.

[cathyy]

Could the tendency to litter here in Thailand be based partly on a perception that it's somebody else's job to clean up? Like in a McDonald's here, as opposed to one in the US. In the US, you bus your own table and dispose of your trash in the bin. Here, it's somebody's job to do that.

I have seen crews of people cleaning up rubbish and maintaining boulevards in cities. In my moo baan there are people hird to sweep the gutters and pick up rubbish. The neighbors gave my husband looks that indicated he was crazy to pick up the rubbish in the street from the occasion when a dog got into our garbage through a door left ajar. We don't litter here, nor did we in the US.

Can somebody provide me with info on what is recyclable here and what isn't? I would love to set up some recycling. I assume aluminum, glass, and plastic are all recyclable?

[billd766]

Could the tendency to litter here in Thailand be based partly on a perception that it's somebody else's job to clean up? Like in a McDonald's here, as opposed to one in the US. In the US, you bus your own table and dispose of your trash in the bin. Here, it's somebody's job to do that.

I have seen crews of people cleaning up rubbish and maintaining boulevards in cities. In my moo baan there are people hird to sweep the gutters and pick up rubbish. The neighbors gave my husband looks that indicated he was crazy to pick up the rubbish in the street from the occasion when a dog got into our garbage through a door left ajar. We don't litter here, nor did we in the US.

Can somebody provide me with info on what is recyclable here and what isn't? I would love to set up some recycling. I assume aluminum, glass, and plastic are all recyclable?

I think a lot depends on where you live. Up here out in the sticks we save all the glass and plastic bottles but there is not a lot of paper or cardboard. We recycle the plastic bags as containers for our sons filled Pampers. Every so often a guy comes along with a pickup truck and buys all the waste stuff.

In Bangkok the trashmen used to sort out all he stuff that went out though I did separate the recyclable for them. There are a lot of people using the 3 wheel motorcycles that sort through the trash lying around and take it to a depot who pay them for it.

There is always a trash bag in the car and I have taught my 2 year old to use it plus the bins in the house. I have my wifes family up for the holidays and they have NEVER been taught to clear up. Mam will follow them and clear up, BUT NOT IN MY HOUSE, especially if I catch them.

[Tywais]

An interesting article on Thailand's efforts for recycling > Thailand Energy Strategy and Policy

[PeaceBlondie]

After living in the USA for all my life, I went to Nicragua to learn Spanish at my friend's ecological project, on a lake. He installed trash barrels at the water's edge for the picnicing Nicaraguans, but they hadn't learned about ecology yet. I came out of the water as a Nica family (not poor) was finishing their picnic, with a mess everywhere, that they had no intent of cleaning up. I walked up smiling, put their trash into the barrel for them, and said respectfully to the fat slob who was the head of the family, "Señor, we need to teach our children to pick up their trash. Have a good day."

But in Thailand, I'm not ready to do that yet. Maybe I'd just clean up their mess, smile, and give them a wai.

[Neeranam]

We recycle the plastic bags as containers for our sons filled Pampers. Every so often a guy comes along with a pickup truck and buys all the waste stuff.

Someone actually buys your son's used nappies

To be honest, I often just throw rubbish over the wall - out of sight.

We sell the empty bottles, plastic and paper to the local alkie scavenger.

Rubbish collectors need a job - don't make them redundant

[Neeranam]

Didn't know you could speak Spanish

"Señor, we need to teach our children to pick up their trash. Have a good day."

Koon, dtong gan sawn dek kong rao ting ka ya

Easier than Spanish, IMHO - I tried to learn once then went to Barcelona for a month, to realise I had learned the wrong language.

[terry57]

i spent alot of time on koh tao.

the thais were shockers when it came to rubbish.

when on the boats it was not unusual to see a thai throw all his rubbish in the sea.

cans, bottles, plastics and if you did not hang on to the boat you'd go over as well.

the funny thing was that there would be a rubbish bin 2 feet away but apparantly they could not see it.

the worst where the local fisherman and ferry boat personal.

things are not so bad now as conservation of the enviroment is more widely spread but old habits die hard.

cheers

[Donz]

Thais are pretty bad with rubbish IMO but i dont know for sure as I dont live there and only observe from the time Ive been there.

Soth Korea puts everyone to shame they always put rubbish in the bin and should be an example to the world

[booma]

Yes, very much so!

[The Coder]

I don't see any glimmer of hope that things are changing for the better. I think it's going to get much, much worse and there is no doubt plastic factories are creating more bags and straws than ever before with future demand going up and up. It is visible to all where it ends up, but Thai's don't care as it's just a normal sight and the thing to do. It's not an eyesore or a concern to them at all. I have never been anywhere in my life with such high rubbish and noise pollution and am always apalled by it. But I really like the thought of lead by example. I will definitely try that when permissible.

And we have that great festival loy kratong coming up, where thai's dreamed up how neat it would be to make their little boats from a STYROFOAM base with plastic appointments stapled to it rather than a banana wedge with real flowers to send down the river. I hope the kratong stand is still there this year at saphan thaksin that sells a bread based kratong. They are both beautiful and become food for the fish.

[plachon]

Instead of giving litterers dirty looks, go pick up their garbage and put it in the bin. Preferably in front of them, maybe they will learn something and clean up after themselves next time.

I do not want to be negative, SBK, but I'm pretty sure it won't work...

Better than letting the garbage stay and then moaning about it. If cleaning up means I end up having to clean up after other people then I guess I'll continue to do so. Our beach fills up with rubbish nearly every day for 6 months (when the wind changes directions, the rubbish stops). None of which is mine. I still clean it up every day and have done so as long as I have lived there (even before the bungalows came along). Some of my neighbors thought I was nuts others came along and helped.

Lead by example. Its definitely more help than whinging about it and doing nothing.

Which is exactly what my (Thai) wife did the other day on an otherwise pretty clean path in Switzerland. She picked up a plastic bag to put in the next bin (turned out to be a km away), and walked along with it like a trophy to show other passers by that even Thais can be just as environmentally aware as the natives. Made me feel quite proud, as I once threw a wobbler when we first met and she jettisoned an empty plastic water bottle off the back of our bike into a Kanchanburi verge. I turned the bike around and made her pick it up. She used to think I was mad when I picked up other peoples' litter when walking in countryside.

Finally, the example has brushed off in Switzerland of all places. Messy Swiss!

[bri1guy]

In the ten years I have been living and visiting Thailand I don’t think I have seen any improvement. I guess that until somebody can make money from it nothing will be done.

Well, you do something then..... it requires minimal effort on your part and the benefits are quite rewarding.

I have definately seem improvement on the streets is Bkk. I also saw a police officer ticket a guy for throwing a cigarrete on the street! The smells of Bkk , you know what I mean will always be there but are not as bad as a whole in the last 5 years even. Koa san, suikomvit,Silom Sois are all cleaner than just five years ago.. Its no where close to cleaned up but not trashed like it could be, they should focus on it more to bring in tourists etc instead of making laws hindering the fun which made Bkk a 24 hr party place in the 70's !!!